1200 whp on PUMP GAS Underground Racing TT LP 570

Correct, you have spent too much time on the dyno, you need to get a life!!! haha

 

I live my life one dyno pull at a time.

 

I live my life one dyno pull at a time.

 

 

Damn, you add a new car to the list??

We better get on it!

Have you run any of the cars on E85?

In Australia we are seeing big gains in using E85 in turbo cars.

 

this from a girl who fell asleep in the passenger seat doing 200 mph pulls at Car & Driver HAHA

 

haha i literally laughed out loud.

 

 

congrats Kevin and UGR crew, its great to follow along as you guys continue to push these cars! I would love to send our 07 spyder down for a bolt on kit!

Thank you.

 

 

 

We have a couple of different ways to do this. This is depending on the build. One is, letting the factory ECU control the full tune without help from an aftermarket ECU such as Motec. I saw this mentioned in the post you made reference to. This is nothing new to us. The problem is, there is a limitation once you get up in the bigger power levels with letting the factory ECU handle the more powerful builds.

 

So on a bolt on system from UR, the factory electronics remain in control of the all of the fueling/ignition operations with a flashed ECU? And then on a built engine system, additional fueling is introduced via an auxiliary EMS and injectors? I think I'm following you here!

 

I'm not sure the way Jason does his bigger builds. I haven't heard of any that he has done, 560/570. Again, from what I read, there is nothing new there on how they are doing the bolts on's. Its not a big deal to flash a stock ECU. Its far cheaper to do it that way.

 

That's understandable, and I will likely discuss that companies methods with them separately. I'm more interested in your companies methods in this thread.

 

Yes, depending on the build, we use knock control with some of the Motec setups. Its also far more advanced than the stock knock control. Motec knock control is setup for what we are doing, boosting engines. The factory knock sensors/control is in no way setup the same, frequency wise. The factory knock control is setup for a NA engine and will not see or react to all knock frequencies.

 

Well, let's level here since I'm not the dullest tool in the box. Motec or other EMS' knock controls are able to be configured and tailored to the specific engine. Obviously that lends well to what you're saying, except that you configure the desired target frequency by forcing the engine to ping. Ttypically with the charge piping disconnected from what I've been around, to ensure the safest possible environment to record the frequency data but not hurt the engine.

 

That in fact, means you are configuring the frequency on an naturally aspirated engine, then applying boost. "Sounds" (get it?!) pretty similar, haha!

 

Obviously I have some background in the internal combustion industry, just in varying different modes of transportation.

 

We have done more 560/570 builds that all tuners combined and there is a reason for that. We have learned a great deal in racing these Gallardo flat forms that no other tuners are learning because they simply don't compete with their cars. All that we learn in racing we apply to our street cars (power, performance and reliability). We prove our work over and over as the videos and performance stats don't lie. We also offer a warranty that is FAR superior to our competitors.

 

This is a very true point, and I highly respect that. This is exactly why I'm intrigued by your systems capabilities and operations. My technical nature and occupation have me ask questions of a slightly different stature. I greatly appreciate your efforts in answering them.

 

Before you pick your tuner, I would advise that you reach out to some of the owners of the different builds and get first hand information about how their build process went and how they feel about the performance of their TT Gallardos/R8's.

 

 

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That's a highly impressive display. A beautiful facility, and a testament to the trust your customers have put into your builds. That means a lot.

 

Although, I bought my giallo midas 570 to stand out a bit. Not to be "just another one". I guess when it's on the open road it is a bit different, but in that shop it would be lost in the masses!

 

Once again, thanks for your time and effort, UR.

 

BF570

So on a bolt on system from UR, the factory electronics remain in control of the all of the fueling/ignition operations with a flashed ECU? And then on a built engine system, additional fueling is introduced via an auxiliary EMS and injectors? I think I'm following you here!

You got it. Some of the bolt on cars get the bigger builds fuel system as those guys are planning to come back for the bigger build.

 

 

That's understandable, and I will likely discuss that companies methods with them separately. I'm more interested in your companies methods in this thread.

I'm not getting you on this one? You asked if our system is like Heffners, so I answered. See your question below.

Does Heffner do it the same way UR does then, or do you have other means of fuel control on the vehicle?

My answer was... I'm not sure the way Jason does his bigger builds. I haven't heard of any that he has done, 560/570. Again, from what I read, there is nothing new there on how they are doing the bolts on's. Its not a big deal to flash a stock ECU. Its far cheaper to do it that way.

 

 

This is a very true point, and I highly respect that. This is exactly why I'm intrigued by your systems capabilities and operations. My technical nature and occupation have me ask questions of a slightly different stature. I greatly appreciate your efforts in answering them.

No problem

 

That's a highly impressive display. A beautiful facility, and a testament to the trust your customers have put into your builds. That means a lot.

Although, I bought my giallo midas 570 to stand out a bit. Not to be "just another one". I guess when it's on the open road it is a bit different, but in that shop it would be lost in the masses!

Once again, thanks for your time and effort, UR.

BF570

Anytime, please share some pictures of your Superleggera. Hard to beat the looks of the Giallo Midas 570. What town are you from in Tennessee? Have you spent anytime at the cars and coffee?

 

 

We have a good amount of TT cars in Tennessee. Maybe I can set you up with a demo ride? PM me your info if and I will work on setting this up. Thanks

 

 

What car has recorded higher on pump? And what did it make?

 

 

there is lots...

 

http://www.dragzine.com/news/the-worlds-qu...rag-radial-car/

 

and those are old, who knows now..

Have you run any of the cars on E85?

In Australia we are seeing big gains in using E85 in turbo cars.

 

Yes. Are installer that we are setting up over there in Australia has mentioned this.

You guys are killing me!! Every time I think my car is fast you find a new way to make the cars faster. It's just like Apple, wait a few months and the next generation will be out. Nice job.

You got it. Some of the bolt on cars get the bigger builds fuel system as those guys are planning to come back for the bigger build.

 

Okay, I understand the process now. Per reading this it sent me on a little scavenger hunt over the forums looking high and low for "bolt on" builds, and very few are found. I would presume this is because a company such as yourself that focuses on the big power machines wastes little effort publicizing the small potatoes systems, which is understandable as well.

 

However, what I did find was that each bolt on system that came up was touted as a "stage 1.5", which included the aforementioned additonal injectors and auxiliary EMS. Which of course, led me to find this quote which you confirmed in the same thread:

just found out that the stage 1.5 is for owners that want to upgrade to the R version in the future so it has bigger turbos and other components that they dont have to upgrade when they do decide to build their block . cost is 10k more than stage 1

 

Now, I know this seems extravagant but perhaps others will follow my logic here as well since the website is a bit lacking in regards to details on each systems components.

 

If an individual such as myself is interested in the stage 1 package with the flashed stock ECU's that we were discussing earlier, is the cost still only $39,000 per the website? Because if the additional fueling/ECU is a required component and bumps it another $10,000, we're talking about a $50,000 bolt on system. Out of the realm? Surely not from a reputable source as yourself. More than the others? Yes, but I suppose there is a price to pay for playing with the head of the class in power.

 

Though why an individual would feel prompted to spend another $10,000 for a fuel system that is not necessary to operation other than perhaps boost control at that point is strange. Especially when the entire drivetrain is coming out to do the next level of the build which requires a built engine. That would rule out that the upgrade process would be any quicker I would think.

 

That's a simple issue though. The more complex one that I'm having a hard time grasping is that if the stage 1.5 and above now introduce auxiliary fueling via added injectors and ECU, is the engine effectively no longer a Direct Injection engine?

 

Due to parts of my background, I know the aftermarket has very little access to larger DI injectors, and I don't know anyone crazy enough or talented enough to machine their own injector passage into the cylinder combustion chamber!

 

Nor do I see every LP build with an aluminum intake manifold put in place of the factory composite unit to facilitate welding in additional injector bungs, such as what all companies seem to do on the earlier model Gallardo's. And after having looked over my car in depth there is no lower half in aluminum to modify either. Obviously you guys have figured out a way to fit an injector somewhere in the runner then, but how you do it without just gluing/epoxying the bung freestanding to the runner is beyond my mental capacity! And although it will come off as brash, I find that rather impressive.

 

So to sum all that up, if you're willing to share how UR fits auxiliary injectors into the factory intake manifold, I and most certainly others would love to see how ingenuitive and remarkable the workmanship is. I'm certain it is just as impressive as the rest of the systems in totality that your company produces!

 

I'm not getting you on this one? You asked if our system is like Heffners, so I answered. See your question below.

My answer was... I'm not sure the way Jason does his bigger builds. I haven't heard of any that he has done, 560/570. Again, from what I read, there is nothing new there on how they are doing the bolts on's. Its not a big deal to flash a stock ECU. Its far cheaper to do it that way.

 

I see why that is confusing, my wording was less than ideal. I was trying to understand which level of your builds utilizes the factory ECU's only, which we have covered as your standard Stage 1 package per the above information.

 

No problem

 

 

Anytime, please share some pictures of your Superleggera. Hard to beat the looks of the Giallo Midas 570. What town are you from in Tennessee? Have you spent anytime at the cars and coffee?

 

 

We have a good amount of TT cars in Tennessee. Maybe I can set you up with a demo ride? PM me your info if and I will work on setting this up. Thanks

 

That's an awfully nice gesture, and I would gladly take you up on it. I'm ballpark around the Kentucky Lake area. Does your company have any Stage 1 cars nearby?

 

No, I've intended to make it to the Knoxville one. Last I heard it was at European Auto Garage, is it still there? Seems I find myself some secluded roads to peruse more often than not. An SL is a great car for that!

 

BF570

Hey BF570,

 

I'm one of UGR's customers with a bolt on 570 kit. Kevin might chime in but I think mine has the upgraded fuel for future bigger builds.

 

Car runs flawlessly and I would highly recommend it! If your ever in the Philly area let me know and we can go out for a ride.

Hey BF570,

 

I'm one of UGR's customers with a bolt on 570 kit. Kevin might chime in but I think mine has the upgraded fuel for future bigger builds.

 

Car runs flawlessly and I would highly recommend it! If your ever in the Philly area let me know and we can go out for a ride.

 

PCJR,

 

Thanks for the kind offer. I'm sure I would enjoy the ride if I find myself in that area anytime soon.

 

I would like to hear UR's response to my questions in the above (long winded unfortunately!) post, but perhaps you can help the cause.

 

I read that you're unaware if your car is a stage 1 or stage 1.5, but it should be rather obvious with a simple picture. If you happen to have a point and shoot camera with a flash, or maybe your phone, just snap a picture with a flash of underneath the intake manifold.

 

Not to belittle you in any way at all, but if that's no direct enough, the area underneath the black composite intake, in between the throttle valves. You will see the intake runners extend down towards the cylinder heads. A quick snap of that area would clear a lot of things up in a jiffy. There are some vacuum lines and various emissions hoses around there that might make it a bit difficult, but I think you'll be able to make do basing on my car.

 

If you get a chance to, thanks a bunch!

 

BF570

Bruteforce570, I'm on an iPhone for this reply. I will make it short and sweet for you. We dont want competitors seeing how we do things with our extra injector setup. Sorry, as I'm sure you can respect that. The stage 1.5 comes with the bigger fuel system and the stage 3 turbo system "not the R version" as someone posted. Not bad for 10k extra.

 

Again, please send me your contact info and this is what I will do. I will fly you to Underground Racing on my dime and show you how we do it. No pictures will be allowed in the race development/fab shop.

 

Also, we have plenty of other Gallardos that other tuners have built in our shop that you are welcome to look at and see the differences for yourself. This should answer all the questions you could possibly have.

 

Again, please post up pictures of your Yellow 570. If you happen to have a point and shoot camera with a flash, or maybe your phone, just snap a picture.

 

 

 

 

Brute, your car is my dream...I have a yellow 08 SL, please do post some pictures of your car on this thread. Post them with a penny in hand, you know, just to assure us all you aren't full of shit. No disrespect meant, just seems like you are "more than meets the eye". Thanks in advance,

Peter

I'm new to this forum and I agree these recent posts sound funny. Take up the free trip to UGR.

hell can i get a free trip??

 

Yes. Are installer that we are setting up over there in Australia has mentioned this.

 

Who are you setting up?

In Sydney?

 

hell can i get a free trip??

 

 

 

I was thinking the same thing.

please do post some pictures of your car on this thread. Post them with a penny in hand, you know, just to assure us all

 

 

hell can i get a free trip??

 

 

Hell yea, I will do that, free trip for Ray! Every time you come here you leave with a new turbo car, ! I got a few new ones you might have to take home!

I'm having a little bit of trouble with this distinction that you're making between naturally aspirated knock frequencies and forced induction knock frequencies. Could you please provide the forum with some more technical information? Perhaps any engineering articles you've come across outlining the differences in knock frequencies under these different cylinder pressures?

Over looked your post, sorry for the late response. The OEM knock sensors could still function to some extent on a turbo car, but without knowing exactly how it is setup you have no way of knowing how well the system is working, or how the changes made to the engine have effected its ability to decipher knock from background noise. Every part that has been changed in/on the engine can effect the knock control system, and the resonant frequencies of the engine.

 

The basic primary frequency of a knock event is directly to the bore size of the cylinder. It can be calculated mathematically. So our first problem is, likely the bore sizes are not stock anymore when the engine gets built for turbo's, so the frequency setting in the OEM ECU may no longer be ideal. The second issues we have is often the primary frequency is buried under a mountain of background engine noise (which again has changed frequency band when we out in a bunch of non-stock parts), making it difficult to accurately pick out the actual knock. When a knock event occurs, it causes a "ringing" (not unlike a ringing bell next to another) through all of the various parts of the engine, across reasonably wide frequency range. Often you can find a frequency band where this stands out dramatically from the background noise, and this is what we are looking for (and can set the MoTeC knock detection to target) to get the best signal to noise ratio. This benefits two ways: one, we get the most accurate response to the knock (so we can keep the engine as safe as possible) which allows us to have a much tighter tolerance window. If we are dealing with a lot of background noise, then either have to leave a wide window (which might let some small knock events go unnoticed), or we will be getting a lot of false triggering by the background noise (hurting performance).

 

There are also setting to adjust the sensitivity for each cylinder, allowing further gains in both safety and performance.

 

Red or MaciekR, you could probably Google some knock graphs if you need them, hope this helps with your future builds.

I would love free trip, hell i would even pay to drive a TTG once i got there:D

 

Kevin,

 

I think you can start a profitable side business here renting out TT gallardos for a day

Also, we have plenty of other Gallardos that other tuners have built in our shop that you are welcome to look at and see the differences for yourself. This should answer all the questions you could possibly have.

 

 

Actually, that should answer ANY questions ANYONE could possibly have.

Actually, that should answer ANY questions ANYONE could possibly have.

 

I would agree, if these other modified vehicles are LP 560/570 model(s). I have little interest in the systems for the 04-08 cars. While highly impressive, I don't own one, and don't foresee purchasing one.

 

UR and Houston T, I'll see what I can do for you both if it will ease your minds. Give me a few moments to get out to the garage.

 

BF570

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DAMN IMPRESSIVE!