Things are getting crazy in Kiev

I think it would more be like blaming your wife for getting raped because she chose to walk through a dangerous neighborhood. While it doesn't absolve the person who did the rape, at the same time, it isn't wise to just walk through any area.

 

So if your house is robbed, it's your fault for not securing it sufficiently?

rebels reporting directly to Russian intelligence:

 

Security Service of Ukraine have published intercepted communication between russian terrorists. This is right after they shot down the plane and after they visited the crash site to learn that it was a civil aircraft:

 

 

I'll translate:

 

First Still reads:

 

17.07.2014 about 16:20 terrorists lead by "Bes" (citizen of Russian Federation I. Bezler) used russian SAM to take down civil aircraft model "Boing 777" that belonged to Malaysian airline company "Malaysia Airlines" that was performing flight Amsterdam - kuala lumpur

 

About 16:40 "Bes" has reported about shot down aircrasft to his superior - colonel GERANIN VASILIY MIKOLAYEVICH - of Main Reconassence Agency (won;t fully translate, read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Intellig...torate_(Russia) )

 

Bes - "A plane has just been shot down. "Miner's" group did it. It fell down a bit further of Enakievo" Heranin "Pilots - where are pilots?"

 

Bes: "Gone to search for and take pictures of the aircraft taken down. Smoking..."

 

Heranin: "How much minutes ago?"

 

Bes "About 30 minutes ago"

 

After looking around of crash site terrorists have come to conclusion that they had taken down a civil aircraft

 

Conversation between "Major" and "Hrek: follows:

 

Hrek: "Yes, Major!"

 

Major: "So chernuhinskie guys took down the plane. From Chernuhino block-post. The cossaks that are stationed on Chernuhino"

 

Major: "So plane fell apart in air, near Pertopoltavskaya mine. First "200" found. A civil person"

 

Hrek: "What's going on there?"

 

Major: "Well, fcuk, it was 100% a civil aircraft"

 

Hrek: "How many people?"

 

Major: "Holy fcuk! PArts of the plane fell in yards (meaning house yeards ) "

 

Hrek" What kind of aircraft?

 

Major: "I still have no clue because i wasn't near it's main part. I'm currrently looking at the place where first bodies fell"

 

Major: "there are leftovers of internal brakets, seats, bodies

 

Hrek: "Ane weapons?"

 

Major: "Nothing at all. Civil things, medical things, towels, toilet paper"

 

Hrek" Any documents?"

 

Major: "Yes, Indonesian student. From Tompson University"

 

Updated part:

 

Militia: "About the plane that was shot down near Snezhniy - Torez. It was a civil aircraft. It fell near Grabovo. There's a shit tonn of women and children corpses. Cossaks are now looking the place around."

 

Militia: "They say over TV that it's a Ukranian AN-26 transport aircraft, but they say it has "Malaysian Airlines" written over it. And what did he do on Ukranian territory?"

 

M. Kozicin: "So they were bringing in the spies. I dunno. No fcuking flying around. It's war over there."

My blood is boiling right now, someone should bring out the big weapons and start leveling some of the problem shitholes around the globe, a big spring cleaning is required!

My blood is boiling right now, someone should bring out the big weapons and start leveling some of the problem shitholes around the globe, a big spring cleaning is required!

Hate to be seen as pissy and pedantic but if you are knocking the stuff out of the sky that is six miles up you already have the big weapons out and you really don't want them getting any bigger.

 

What is really pissing me off is that the rebels are claiming that they did not do it. They have not got the tools to do it.

Now. Tell me. Why is there some intel being released that point to them having the weapons. Why were sanctions against Russia increased because they supplied you those weapons.

Why is there intel being released that points to the rebels being the cause yet you deny it.

 

Proof that Russia is propping up some fucktards.

If you are some big boy fighters you man up and face the consequences and come clean.

 

Hate to be seen as pissy and pedantic but if you are knocking the stuff out of the sky that is six miles up you already have the big weapons out and you really don't want them getting any bigger.

 

All our countries are led by pussies, that's the problem, I am sure our guns will far outweigh theirs, those hot spots have to be dealt with swiftly and from the air, no foot soldiers, the technology is there, the minute they misbehave, turn the whole place into agricultural land, if there are no consequences to ones actions you can't expect anything else, this will keep on happening over and over again until you won't feel safe anywhere you go, at this stage they are wining only because we are letting them.

 

 

All our countries are led by pussies, that's the problem, I am sure our guns will far outweigh theirs, those hot spots have to be dealt with swiftly and from the air, no foot soldiers, the technology is there, the minute they misbehave, turn the whole place into agricultural land, if there are no consequences to ones actions you can't expect anything else, this will keep on happening over and over again until you won't feel safe anywhere you go, at this stage they are wining only because we are letting them.

 

 

I agree with your sentiments I really do. But...

 

The aerial advantage toys we have need boots on the ground to work. That is how intel works. Otherwise they are flying aimelssly about and before you send many billions of dollars up over these areas you have to starve them of equipment because it is generally a bad day in the office if you lose aircraft in the field. Being aggressive towards aggressive people never really works. The global community has to show solidarity against the people that tooled the tools.

Russia saying it is Ukraine's problem because it happened in Ukraine... well questions how did they get this equipment, who gave it to them and if what happens in Ukraine is Ukraine's problem then how come you are getting involved in other aspects. You cannot pick and chose the glory when it works out for you.

The global community has to take more action as a group, not one country can take the lead role in this.

I can't talk about this without getting very angry, my heart is bleeding for the innocent blood spilled

 

I am going into a serious negotiation and this crap put me in a bad mood.

 

 

So if your house is robbed, it's your fault for not securing it sufficiently?

 

Oranges to apples comparison IMO. You are partially to blame I'd say if I have loved ones sleeping over night there and you don't take the initiative to lock the doors. Or as another example, take the Americans who went to vacation in Iraq to hike on the Iraq/Iran border and got lost and then arrested by the Iranians. On the one hand, yes, technically anything bad that happens to them is the fault of the Iranians, BUT, they also are partially to blame for being so stupid as to go hiking in such an area in the first place.

They say that this type of missile system requires two years of training to learn how to operate, so the people who fired it must have specialized training from somewhere.

 

Being aggressive towards aggressive people never really works. The global community has to show solidarity against the people that tooled the tools.

 

Would have to completely disagree with that. Being aggressive towards aggressive people very much works. You don't counter aggression with pacifism or appeasement. It doesn't mean you just go in guns-a-blazin' either, but peace in a violent world is only maintained through force.

 

Russia saying it is Ukraine's problem because it happened in Ukraine... well questions how did they get this equipment, who gave it to them and if what happens in Ukraine is Ukraine's problem then how come you are getting involved in other aspects. You cannot pick and chose the glory when it works out for you.

The global community has to take more action as a group, not one country can take the lead role in this.

 

I think it's a combination of the two, the world as a group but be lead by one country.

So you don't have the equipment to shoot this type of plane down...

 

http://sprotyv.info/ru/news/2426-foto-kolo...po-malaziyskomu

 

Smacks of this guy

 

 

All our countries are led by pussies, that's the problem, I am sure our guns will far outweigh theirs, those hot spots have to be dealt with swiftly and from the air, no foot soldiers, the technology is there, the minute they misbehave, turn the whole place into agricultural land, if there are no consequences to ones actions you can't expect anything else, this will keep on happening over and over again until you won't feel safe anywhere you go, at this stage they are wining only because we are letting them.

 

 

I wouldnt necessarily call putin a pussy, hes just extremely good at playing politics and he knows exactly how to get what he wants, this is basically the same guy who advised bashar on dealing with syria and look at the reality; hes just been sworn in for a third term. also it will be extremely difficult to deal with russia as any sanctions against russia will inevitably hurt europe and will trickle down and hurt the united states, its basically cutting off the nose to spite the face and putin knows this. look at how intertwined russia is into western europes economy with its natural resources. also dont forget that russia has a very close relationship with china and if push comes to shove i believe china will back russia because if the united states thinks it can bully russia then what makes china believe the united states wont do the same to them?

I wouldnt necessarily call putin a pussy, hes just extremely good at playing politics and he knows exactly how to get what he wants, this is basically the same guy who advised bashar on dealing with syria and look at the reality; hes just been sworn in for a third term. also it will be extremely difficult to deal with russia as any sanctions against russia will inevitably hurt europe and will trickle down and hurt the united states, its basically cutting off the nose to spite the face and putin knows this. look at how intertwined russia is into western europes economy with its natural resources. also dont forget that russia has a very close relationship with china and if push comes to shove i believe china will back russia because if the united states thinks it can bully russia then what makes china believe the united states wont do the same to them?

 

I could be wrong, but I think Fortis means all the countries of the free world, not all the countries in the world period. Also I wouldn't call U.S. actions against Russia bullying. It is Russia that is doing the bullying, the U.S. would be responding. If China wants to back them, so be it, because if Russia thinks it can bully countries and the U.S. does nothing about it, then China will assume the same when it comes to bullying the countries in their area.

This whole situation pisses me off, especially thinking that it could have been any of us getting hit. It doesn't really make you feel safe about flying when you know terrosits have equipment and to shoot commercial airlines down. Tons of innocent lives lost.

This whole situation pisses me off, especially thinking that it could have been any of us getting hit. It doesn't really make you feel safe about flying when you know terrosits have equipment and to shoot commercial airlines down. Tons of innocent lives lost.

 

Terrorists or States that would engage in State Sponsored Terrorism have had these tools for a long time. Remember that only 3 commercial airliners had EVER been shot down before yesterday and while that certainly doesn't excuse what happened these planes are not targeted on an even remotely regular basis.

 

Side note: It is VERY interesting that the Russians have been responsible for 3 of the 4 shoot downs.

 

Side Note #2: Putin is not a pussy and he is most certainly CREAMING HIS PANTIES over this. He KNEW his country gave them the SAM, he KNEW those guys knew how to use it and he KNOWS the world won't do anything about it. He is flexing his muscles and winning right now. I think we (the global "good guys") have an opportunity on par with 9-11 to decide what path we want to go down. Do we swing back or do we draw a line and say "you fucked up BAD but because we are high and mighty we will give you a pass but in no uncertain terms if we ever see you near the line again we will destroy you."

 

That is where we need to decide what our foreign policy is and how we want to handle it. As someone else said WWI started over reasons for way less then this and I don't think anyone wants WWIII. I have never been a big fan of sanctions and I blame Clinton for their inability to work. His entire FP was centered around slapping them with a sanction and lobbing a few cruise missiles/JDAMs at some hard targets and calling it a day. For sanctions to work the entire world would need to straight up pretend Russia doesn't exist. No banking, no trade, no flights, no border crossings, no services...I literally mean pretend Russia is a giant hole in the map. Truly isolating them from the world is the only option but I don't see anyone willing to step up and do that.

I could be wrong, but I think Fortis means all the countries of the free world, not all the countries in the world period. Also I wouldn't call U.S. actions against Russia bullying. It is Russia that is doing the bullying, the U.S. would be responding. If China wants to back them, so be it, because if Russia thinks it can bully countries and the U.S. does nothing about it, then China will assume the same when it comes to bullying the countries in their area.

 

yes after re-reading Fortis' post i realized that i misinterpreted it.

 

you do bring up a good point though about china. china has been invading taiwan by economic means. im sure china is watching how this crisis in ukraine unfolds because it can literally create precedence for china to invade taiwan. if the united states has come out and said it is not prepared to go to war against russia and russia only faces sanctions which are not economically viable then whats the worst that can happen to china?

 

but you cannot say the united states doesnt have a history of bullying countries, unfortunately the united states has finally met its match with russia and it cannot bully russia with sanctions as it did with other countries.

but you cannot say the united states doesnt have a history of bullying countries, unfortunately the united states has finally met its match with russia and it cannot bully russia with sanctions as it did with other countries.

 

Tired of posts like this and people that think this way. You guys can't look at America and say "you great big bad bully stop picking people" and then turn around and want us to pick on others when it suddenly affects YOU. We aren't a bully and we never have been. Start looking at us like a School Resource Officer. We are there to monitor and help at all times, enforce when needed and discipline when required. If someone else wants to do it please by all means step up to the plate....oh wait Russia is doing that right now. By all means let them be the new hall monitor.

 

I am not saying that America only has great power and doesn't have great responsibility to use that power to help to globe but come on. Enough of this big bully/great satan BS.

Interesting news breaking revealed on our Channel 4. Putin rang Obama on the basis that sanctions against Russia were raised last night because America has spotted the increase of Russian troops on the border, the supplying of Russian hardware that included SAM and it was Putin that raised the down plane in phonecall.

 

I know there are people on here that dislike the current POTUS and I fully get why but to increase the sanctions was the right thing to do. Sure you could say too late but I think it is unfair to say that though without a whiff of hindsight.

 

 

Tired of posts like this and people that think this way. You guys can't look at America and say "you great big bad bully stop picking people" and then turn around and want us to pick on others when it suddenly affects YOU. We aren't a bully and we never have been. Start looking at us like a School Resource Officer. We are there to monitor and help at all times, enforce when needed and discipline when required. If someone else wants to do it please by all means step up to the plate....oh wait Russia is doing that right now. By all means let them be the new hall monitor.

 

I am not saying that America only has great power and doesn't have great responsibility to use that power to help to globe but come on. Enough of this big bully/great satan BS.

 

Im an american living in america and i along with many other people believe that the united states is a bully. that may not be very patriotic of me but i dont care. when you have a country who time and time again keeps throwing its influence around in order to get its way, other countries begin to take note.

 

i believe that countries need to learn how to manage themselves, its the only viable option.

 

to this date NO american intervention in any country it has invaded has been successful, look at libya as an example. the united states armed and supported rebels to overthrow gaddafi and for what? what exactly has been gained in all of this? absolutely nothing, libya is in the worst chaos that the country has ever expierenced, but at this point the united states has just washed its hands clean of the situation and is now letting the country handel its own issues? how convient. same with iraq, take out saddam and now that the country is in complete dissary with militias fighting over control ofcourse iraq is looking for help, the united states started something that it cant finish. every single country has seen this and taken note, and now with the crisis in ukraine when russia is completely wrong for invading ukraine, its difficult for other countries to go against russia and side with the united states because of americas track record isnt exactly successful.

Im an american living in america and i along with many other people believe that the united states is a bully. that may not be very patriotic of me but i dont care. when you have a country who time and time again keeps throwing its influence around in order to get its way, other countries begin to take note.

 

What countries does the United States "bully?" To the extent any countries have been "bullied" by the U.S., they have been countries with a leadership that posed a threat to the free world. The United States is about as opposite of a bully as a nation can get. There were some instances in the past where the CIA did some very questionable things, which many people blame the U.S. for, but it was at the time an unaccountable CIA and thus not really a formal U.S. involvement. Today the CIA is held far more accountable.

 

i believe that countries need to learn how to manage themselves, its the only viable option.

 

to this date NO american intervention in any country it has invaded has been successful, look at libya as an example. the united states armed and supported rebels to overthrow gaddafi and for what? what exactly has been gained in all of this? absolutely nothing, libya is in the worst chaos that the country has ever expierenced, but at this point the united states has just washed its hands clean of the situation and is now letting the country handel its own issues? how convient. same with iraq, take out saddam and now that the country is in complete dissary with militias fighting over control ofcourse iraq is looking for help, the united states started something that it cant finish. every single country has seen this and taken note, and now with the crisis in ukraine when russia is completely wrong for invading ukraine, its difficult for other countries to go against russia and side with the united states because of americas track record isnt exactly successful.

 

South Korea was successful IMO (nation that developed from Korean War). The Gulf War was also successful. Gaddafi getting overthrown in Libya wasn't something the United States planned however. Regarding Iraq, much of the chaos there is the fault of the current administration for bungling getting a status of forces agreement. A similar thing happened with South Vietnam. South Vietnam was standing by itself against the North for two years after U.S. troops had pulled out, but then Congress decided to cut their funding, and they fell to the North.

That is where we need to decide what our foreign policy is and how we want to handle it. As someone else said WWI started over reasons for way less then this and I don't think anyone wants WWIII. I have never been a big fan of sanctions and I blame Clinton for their inability to work. His entire FP was centered around slapping them with a sanction and lobbing a few cruise missiles/JDAMs at some hard targets and calling it a day. For sanctions to work the entire world would need to straight up pretend Russia doesn't exist. No banking, no trade, no flights, no border crossings, no services...I literally mean pretend Russia is a giant hole in the map. Truly isolating them from the world is the only option but I don't see anyone willing to step up and do that.

 

Isolation of Russia I don't think would be possible for two major reasons:

 

1) There is no way all the countries would go along with such a thing

 

2) Even if countries wanted to, they can't, because of reliance on Russia for fossil fuels (like Germany)

Isolation of Russia I don't think would be possible for two major reasons:

 

1) There is no way all the countries would go along with such a thing

 

2) Even if countries wanted to, they can't, because of reliance on Russia for fossil fuels (like Germany)

 

 

Agreed that I don't think all of the countries will go along and they will always have China sitting right there on their border. As for other countries reliance on mother bear...that's what makes it difficult. Would you rather shed blood or money? I don't have that answer.

Proof that Russia is propping up some fucktards.

If you are some big boy fighters you man up and face the consequences and come clean.

 

Wasn't it obvious already? There was proof since the Crimea incident, when "local patriots" armed with RPGs, assault rifles, armored vehicles etc took over it for Russia.

 

 

Russia saying it is Ukraine's problem because it happened in Ukraine... well questions how did they get this equipment, who gave it to them and if what happens in Ukraine is Ukraine's problem then how come you are getting involved in other aspects. You cannot pick and chose the glory when it works out for you.

The global community has to take more action as a group, not one country can take the lead role in this.

 

You can't take more action as a group when half of Europe's industry is powered by Russian gas. Europeans are unable to take a stand on anything these days, and the only nation who could, the US, is currently led by a grossly incompetent and self righteous clown.

And Russia is doing:

 

Arming people who identify as Russians.

Perhaps they should go back to Russia then, if they identify as Russians.

 

It would have been so ironic if the rebels shot down Putin's airplane.

 

RIP to all the victims.

What countries does the United States "bully?" To the extent any countries have been "bullied" by the U.S., they have been countries with a leadership that posed a threat to the free world. The United States is about as opposite of a bully as a nation can get. There were some instances in the past where the CIA did some very questionable things, which many people blame the U.S. for, but it was at the time an unaccountable CIA and thus not really a formal U.S. involvement. Today the CIA is held far more accountable.

 

 

if the united states isnt a bully then what do you call it when a country uses its strength and influence to intimate other countries in order to get what they want? being a hall monitor?

 

this whole 'merica fcuk yeah attitiude the the united states can do no wrong and every action is justified is getting old.