Speaking of guns (again)... Another shooting

These shootings/stabbings etc make America look like a really unsafe place to live in, having spent much of my childhood over there, I don't remember it being unsafe at all, at least not where I lived in the early and mid 90s. I'm not sure what statistics look like today but it seems to me events such as these are on the rise. Perhaps the modern global media shares some of the blame? All these psychos can literally get the sinister attention they all crave, in a matter of minutes. Anonymous weirdo to worldwide notoriety in minutes, that has to attract some into committing these horrible acts.

 

RIP to the poor victims.

 

And if you think Mexico is unsafe you should check out Venezuela. Met a man from there some time ago, he told me Baghdad is statistically safer than Caracas.

These shootings/stabbings etc make America look like a really unsafe place to live in, having spent much of my childhood over there, I don't remember it being unsafe at all, at least not where I lived in the early and mid 90s. I'm not sure what statistics look like today but it seems to me events such as these are on the rise. Perhaps the modern global media shares some of the blame? All these psychos can literally get the sinister attention they all crave, in a matter of minutes. Anonymous weirdo to worldwide notoriety in minutes, that has to attract some into committing these horrible acts.

 

RIP to the poor victims.

 

And if you think Mexico is unsafe you should check out Venezuela. Met a man from there some time ago, he told me Baghdad is statistically safer than Caracas.

I'll find some links to verify what I'm saying, but you are correct in that violence is not increasing, but the media exposure and accessibility to the news is..Details and victims are much more connected and visible.

The most deadly mass killings in US schools actually took place at the turn of the last century!

But news of a children killed say in Missouri probably wouldn't make news in San Francisco a hundred years ago.. Now everyone knows everything within minutes.

We have a tremendous mental health issue and until that is addressed terrible things will always occure.

My state is #1 in mental health problems and the news this last week that 7 dead infants were found in a house not 20 miles where I live from shows how poor shape some people are in.

These shootings/stabbings etc make America look like a really unsafe place to live in, having spent much of my childhood over there, I don't remember it being unsafe at all, at least not where I lived in the early and mid 90s. I'm not sure what statistics look like today but it seems to me events such as these are on the rise. Perhaps the modern global media shares some of the blame? All these psychos can literally get the sinister attention they all crave, in a matter of minutes. Anonymous weirdo to worldwide notoriety in minutes, that has to attract some into committing these horrible acts.

 

RIP to the poor victims.

 

And if you think Mexico is unsafe you should check out Venezuela. Met a man from there some time ago, he told me Baghdad is statistically safer than Caracas.

 

I put together this little bit right after Sandy Hook to have on hand. Just the facts.

 

To be fair, let’s explore some of the stats and facts.

 

In 2011 there were just over 36,000 deaths from automobile accidents according to the NHTSA, the lowest it has been since 1949, which is far higher than homicide with a firearm.

 

According to the CDC, there have been more than 41,000 deaths related to poisoning, and less than 11,500 firearm homicides in 2011. That is more than 5,000 off of the peak in 1993 of more than 17,000, says the National Institute of Justice.

 

According to the FBI there has been a steady decline over the past ten years in violent crime offenses. In 1992 the Violent Crime Rate was 757.7 with a consistent and steady drop to 386.3 in 2011. Now, not all the offense included or involved a firearm, but statistically the country is doing better with crime.

 

Now some may attribute that to the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention act that was effective in 1994. And to be fair, a comprehensive background check is a good idea. Are there changes and adjustments that the current system should incorporate? Absolutely, but that is another argument. But I digress.

 

In October 2011, Gallup conducted a poll that showed American gun ownership was at a 20 year high, with 47% having a gun in their home. And on a side note, women scored a new high of ownership at 43% which is also encouraging for self-defense and protection.

Now does this “causal relationship” mean that more gun owners means less crime? Perhaps not, but it shouldn’t be dismissed. If people feel safer, who are we to take that from them if they aren’t ill or incompetent?

 

Unfortunately people will emotionally look to increase legislation after an event to try and prevent another incident. But sadly, increased legislation only hampers those who abide by the law, which we all know, criminals do not adhere.

 

In this most recent tragedy, the shooter stole legally purchased and registered weapons from his mother, according to some reports. He circumvented the law, and had he tried to purchase a firearm he would probably have been denied. But he didn’t go through legal channels; he stole and then murdered innocent people. It’s sickening to say the least.

While things are very emotional, it’s important not to make rash judgments that can’t change the past. We need to do a better job of getting people help and making sure to recognize the signs and acting accordingly. But increased legislation of personal protection and defense is, in my opinion not the way to go.

Straw buyer should be charged with the same crimes as the shooter.

Straw buyer should be charged with the same crimes as the shooter.

 

I put together this little bit right after Sandy Hook to have on hand. Just the facts.

 

In 1992 the Violent Crime Rate was 757.7 with a consistent and steady drop to 386.3 in 2011. Now, not all the offense included or involved a firearm, but statistically the country is doing better with crime.

 

That's a huge decrease in crime compared to the 90s. Perception is different though.

That's a huge decrease in crime compared to the 90s. Perception is different though.

 

Guess what happened in the US in the early 90s?

 

http://www.gun-nuttery.com/rtc.php

I wondered how he was able to purchase guns with a dishonorable discharge.

 

He wasn't dishonorably discharged.

 

I'm not sure about his story, but he could of gotten discharged for just holding those beliefs without acting upon them within the military and he would got an honorable discharge. If he did act upon said beliefs, it would be a other than honorable discharge.

He wasn't dishonorably discharged.

 

I'm not sure about his story, but he could of gotten discharged for just holding those beliefs without acting upon them within the military and he would got an honorable discharge. If he did act upon said beliefs, it would be a other than honorable discharge.

 

 

Pretty sure he has several felony convictions and is barred from firearms ownership.

Seriously in wheelchair? Come on!!

 

http://abcnews.go.com/US/accused-kansas-sh...ory?id=23330958

Seriously in wheelchair? Come on!!

 

http://abcnews.go.com/US/accused-kansas-sh...ory?id=23330958

 

If he's not cooperating, that gets him to the courtroom.

If he's not cooperating, that gets him to the courtroom.

 

But why the goddamn wheelchair?

But why the goddamn wheelchair?

 

If he's not cooperating, it gets him into the Courtroom.... Instead of a bunch of guys CARRYING HIM, they put him in a chair and wheel his old ass in.

 

A lot less drama and potential for injury, to either the suspect, or to his jailers...

If he's not cooperating, it gets him into the Courtroom.... Instead of a bunch of guys CARRYING HIM, they put him in a chair and wheel his old ass in.

 

A lot less drama and potential for injury, to either the suspect, or to his jailers...

 

 

Ohhh!! Got it.

Pretty sure he has several felony convictions and is barred from firearms ownership.

 

He wasn't dishonorably discharged though is what I am saying.

He wasn't dishonorably discharged.

 

I'm not sure about his story, but he could of gotten discharged for just holding those beliefs without acting upon them within the military and he would got an honorable discharge. If he did act upon said beliefs, it would be a other than honorable discharge.

 

 

He wasn't dishonorably discharged though is what I am saying.

 

Same difference. Whether he was dishonorably discharged or had several felony convictions he is supposed to self report that on the firearm purchase form. In this case the system worked...he needed a straw buyer. Straw buyer should be charged with the same crimes.

Guess what happened in the US in the early 90s?

 

http://www.gun-nuttery.com/rtc.php

That's different than I would have thought as well. You'd think with all the gun control debates etc, that there would be less guns today than 20 years ago. Definitely had an impact, not sure if it's the sole reason for the decrease in crime, though. Better law enforcement policies, reduction of poverty probably had an impact too.

That's different than I would have thought as well. You'd think with all the gun control debates etc, that there would be less guns today than 20 years ago. Definitely had an impact, not sure if it's the sole reason for the decrease in crime, though. Better law enforcement policies, reduction of poverty probably had an impact too.

 

Poverty unto itself doesn't cause crime, but a lot of the same things that cause poverty also cause people to be criminals, so one often finds crime and poverty in the same areas.

That's different than I would have thought as well. You'd think with all the gun control debates etc, that there would be less guns today than 20 years ago. Definitely had an impact, not sure if it's the sole reason for the decrease in crime, though. Better law enforcement policies, reduction of poverty probably had an impact too.

I'm always wary of cause and effect conclusions. Crime and it's causes and deterrents is an incredibly complex issue. So there is no way to definitively make a causal connection between the two...

 

But what you CAN say, definitively, is that the massive increase in law abiding Americans CARRYING loaded weapons in public did not raise the levels of violence as gun control proponents have predicted (and still predict every time the issue comes up again as it did in Illinois last year).

 

Another little statistical tidbit to add to the stew... In the same time that violent crimes decreased (not just gun crimes went down the last 25 years- ALL violent crimes from murder, to rape, to robbery, to hot burglary, to assaults dropped as well) property crimes (theft, auto theft, unoccupied burglary etc) increased during the same time... One explanation for this is that the finite number of criminals (there is a small percentage of people in any society who are basically lawless, they are responsible for the vast majority of crimes from murders all the way down to graffiti and vandalism. This is known as the "Broken Window theory" of crime) simply chose to commit SAFER crimes. Crimes where there is a lower chance of confronting an armed victim.... And... Of course... Where do most if not all of these active shooter crimes occur? "Gun free zones"... Places where the licensed gun owner cannot legally carry his gun (but where there are zero actual deterrents such as metal detectors or armed guards to prevent the actual carrying of a weapon by somebody who means to break the law). These are not the utopian safe zones gun control proponents want them to be... They are killing zones...

 

As it's been said, duck hunting would become a lot less popular if the ducks shot back...

I'm always wary of cause and effect conclusions. Crime and it's causes and deterrents is an incredibly complex issue. So there is no way to definitively make a causal connection between the two...

 

"Gun free zones"... Places where the licensed gun owner cannot legally carry his gun (but where there are zero actual deterrents such as metal detectors or armed guards to prevent the actual carrying of a weapon by somebody who means to break the law). These are not the utopian safe zones gun control proponents want them to be... They are killing zones...

 

As it's been said, duck hunting would become a lot less popular if the ducks shot back...

So basically what you're saying is that in gun free zones there is no active enforcement of the policy. Just a sign, saying "gun free zone" and a law that punishes people who don't take note of the sign? If that's what gun free zones are about, no wonder this stuff happens in exactly those places. It's Kafka-esque to say the least. If there's no active enforcement why create them in the first place, what's the point?

 

This isn't meant as a jab or anything ( I know you guys are sensitive towards this subject), just pure intellectual curiosity. How come the US has a much higher murder/crime rate than other developed countries? Because it's not about guns, there are plenty of countries that have lax gun laws, yet murder rates and gun crimes in general are much lower. Switzerland is second only to the US in gun ownership and it's the safest country in the world.

Ameer,

Gun Free Zones are just like you described. A sign saying "gun free zone" and nothing else. No metal detectors or searches. I've carried in them before because I'd rather be in trouble for using a firearm to defend my family then in TROUBLE for being unable to use a firearm to defend my family.

 

 

So basically what you're saying is that in gun free zones there is no active enforcement of the policy. Just a sign, saying "gun free zone" and a law that punishes people who don't take note of the sign? If that's what gun free zones are about, no wonder this stuff happens in exactly those places. It's Kafka-esque to say the least. If there's no active enforcement why create them in the first place, what's the point?

 

This isn't meant as a jab or anything ( I know you guys are sensitive towards this subject), just pure intellectual curiosity. How come the US has a much higher murder/crime rate than other developed countries? Because it's not about guns, there are plenty of countries that have lax gun laws, yet murder rates and gun crimes in general are much lower. Switzerland is second only to the US in gun ownership and it's the safest country in the world.

 

 

Yep. That's a gun free zone. A sign.

 

Here's the deal, and this answers your second question as well (about why we have high murder rates). In the 1980s the drug wars started. Cocaine and crack... And guns and murders went hand in hand with the inner city gangs that were fighting for distribution turfs.... And one of the places where drugs got distributed was in U.S. High schools and middle schools... And gangs recruit middle school and high school aged kids to do the dealing because the law wasn't designed to deal with them... An adult gets popped for a crime, they go to prison... A kid gets popped for the same thing, and he's sent home to mom.... So inner city High schools and the areas directly surrounding them became war zones. And politicians who had their heart in the right place passed the gun free school zone legislation.

 

See the problem the cops had is they can roll up on a kid they know is dealing drugs... But the kids got smart... One would take the money, but they wouldn't have the drugs on them.... Another kid would have the drugs for the buyer... Bust the kid who took the money, you get nowhere... The kid with the drugs melts away.... But... You know what both always had on them? GUNS!!! So in the "war on drugs" they said, carry a gun near a school and were making that a felony.... Because after all.... It's already illegal to carry a gun.. So if you're carrying a gun, you're obviously a drug dealer. (Remember, this is the early 90s).

 

 

Well... Yeah... Inner city gang members are still killing each other.... And that's the vast majority of the homicides in the US... And guess what? Those of us who are not inner city gang members have stopped caring.... If they want to act like animals, fcuk them.... We don't care anymore... We simply don't go to those places they control, and they leave us alone....

 

 

Now, the new problem is maniacs in the obsolete gun free zones... And those we DO care about because it happens in the suburbs to middle class kids... And the law hasn't caught up to that evolving problem yet...

Interesting state of affairs, I get it.

 

Psychos though... Must be some sort of fad among them to go on killing sprees, reason why I think the media has some of the blame. They all crave attention, but many of them are introverted, socially awkward types. If they'd become say... serial killers, it would take years until they are found out and caught. Mass shooting in this day and age = instant worldwide fame and attention.

Interesting state of affairs, I get it.

 

Psychos though... Must be some sort of fad among them to go on killing sprees, reason why I think the media has some of the blame. They all crave attention, but many of them are introverted, socially awkward types. If they'd become say... serial killers, it would take years until they are found out and caught. Mass shooting in this day and age = instant worldwide fame and attention.

 

 

For the most part, they're suicides... They expect to be killed in the end... Which is what we want...

For the most part, they're suicides... They expect to be killed in the end... Which is what we want...

 

If only they'd start with themselves first, we'd all be better off.