Worst case scenario realized

I bought a low-mile pre-LP Gallardo about 5 months back at a non-franchise dealer. It's been great mechanically, but there's been a rattle/creak noise that I wasn't too worried about. Most rattles turn out to be trim panels etc and are not a big deal.

 

I finally got it looked at by a body shop that is very experienced with Lamborghinis. After significant dis-assembly, it turns out that there is a failed factory weld, resulting in a crack. The cheaper "maybe" fix will be $5-10k (depending if paint is required) and involves re-welding the part that they can get at. This fix would not be warrantied as its possible the failure extends to a portion of the quarter panel that is not able to be accessed. The "real" fix would be $40k+ and involves quarter panel replacement.

 

When you buy these cars, you have to be prepared for maintenance issues, if you need to drop 8k on a clutch, that's expected. This is something else though... There is no way I will spend 40k+ to fix this car, and I have reservations about $10k on a 'maybe' fix.

 

I'm soliciting feedback/ideas on how to handle this. The shop has verified that the car has never been in an accident, and this is for-sure a factory weld failure/manufacturing defect.

 

The car has obviously been out of warranty for years, but on the other hand, this kind of failure seems to be unheard-of and is pretty much a worst case scenario for buying a used G due to severity and difficulty of detection. I could have literally picked any other Gallardo for sale, and been better off! Is this the sort of thing the factory would care about? I've been quite the evangelist for Lamborghini since I bought the car, but who that I tell about this would buy one? It's really damaged my enthusiasm for the brand.

 

Can you get some pictures of the cracked section? More details on the location, what failed, etc?

 

Where are you located?

 

My gut feeling is there is absolutely no way this should cost that kind of $$$, but lets see and we can better evaluate it.

Though it's a longshot, I'd document everything and try to contact Lamborghini corporate before making a repair. Some manufacturers will occationaly cover these kind of defects.

 

I wouldn't sour on the brand from finding this. Defects happen, have you seen the recalls from GM, Toyota, etc.? 100's of thousands of cars recalled. Here you have a one of 10000 cars with a defective weld. It's bound to happen.

 

 

I hope you find a reasonable resolution. Good luck.

Can you get some pictures of the cracked section? More details on the location, what failed, etc?

 

Where are you located?

 

My gut feeling is there is absolutely no way this should cost that kind of $$$, but lets see and we can better evaluate it.

 

As you can imagine, this is a very sensitive issue and as such I'm not posting identifiable details (this is a throwaway account).

 

The shop is a Lamborghini factory authorized body shop (they do warranty work). Their rates are definitely higher than most body shops, so I don't doubt the same work might be done somewhere cheaper. However I don't believe there is any profit-seeking here as they are pretty much telling me that I shouldn't fix it due to low likelihood of success in all but the most high-dollar path. They also tell me it's possible to just put some sealant in the crack, and it might quiet it down, for a while.

 

In asking for advice, rather than looking for technical solutions, I'm wondering if there are precedents for this kind of issue, avenues of redress, etc. I understand that it's quite likely that such avenues don't exist.

 

 

I don't understand how it could cost 10k to reweld an aluminum chassis piece. That just doesn't make sense to me. Anything with a weld can crack and/or fail over time. Aluminum can become brittle in some cases. Emanon would probably be able to analyze that better than most. It may not have been "hit" or in an "accident" but that doesn't mean it didn't encounter a pothole or curbing that put huge stressors on that frame section. I don't know of many body shops that know how to weld aluminum either as there are very few cars made out of it. Engine builders might as they do aluminum blocks from time to time.

 

This is an interesting topic. I doubt that Lamborghini would be on the hook, I don't even know how they could actually help you. They can't be responsible for previous owners use. It would be 100% goodwill if they did anything. I wish you the best of luck with it though and that you get it resolved. Is it possible that it is something your insurance would cover as maybe you hit something in the road and that is what caused the crack in the frame?

 

 

In asking for advice, rather than looking for technical solutions, I'm wondering if there are precedents for this kind of issue, avenues of redress, etc. I understand that it's quite likely that such avenues don't exist.

 

First thing, I would shoot a mod a PM and let them know this is a duplicate account.

 

Back to the car: In that case I would call lambo corporate and let them know the full situation. You may be able to work something out to a satisfactory resolution. Also it might require taking it to an actual dealer to evaluate.

 

If not, and you need to work out a technical solution then let us know. I struggle with the thought that a failed weld on anything (including the frame) could cost $40k to fix. In actuality welding just isn't that expensive and even repainting panels and such isn't that bad. At the same time lets be reasonable, it's not a Muira SVJ getting a pebble beach restoration at Canepa's shop.

I don't understand how it could cost 10k to reweld an aluminum chassis piece. That just doesn't make sense to me. Anything with a weld can crack and/or fail over time. Aluminum can become brittle in some cases. Emanon would probably be able to analyze that better than most. It may not have been "hit" or in an "accident" but that doesn't mean it didn't encounter a pothole or curbing that put huge stressors on that frame section. I don't know of many body shops that know how to weld aluminum either as there are very few cars made out of it. Engine builders might as they do aluminum blocks from time to time.

 

This is an interesting topic. I doubt that Lamborghini would be on the hook, I don't even know how they could actually help you. They can't be responsible for previous owners use. It would be 100% goodwill if they did anything. I wish you the best of luck with it though and that you get it resolved. Is it possible that it is something your insurance would cover as maybe you hit something in the road and that is what caused the crack in the frame?

 

Just welding would be more like $5k. It would jump to $10k if the welding burned the paint (which they would try and avoid but cannot guarantee against) and significant repaint and blending were needed.

 

Thanks for the good wishes, the insurance is an interesting angle.

I don't understand how it could cost 10k to reweld an aluminum chassis piece. That just doesn't make sense to me. Anything with a weld can crack and/or fail over time.

 

Exactly. This is a case where I would be looking to a specialized fabricator to handle the repair. It requires different welding equipment and experience vs the normal body shop stuff. Obviously the guys like UR, Heffner, or nth could definitely take care of it but it might not be worth their time.

 

Thats why I asked where he was. In the right hands I feel like this is at worst a $5k problem start to finish, and thats with some significant paint work and mechanical labor involved.

 

I understand it's stressful and based on the information he has received it's easy to get worked up. But in the right hands I don't think it's nearly as bad as it sounds.

 

I'm pretty experienced in this sort of thing, if I can be of help in any way by all means feel free to shoot me a PM.

Does it have to be fixed? If it's just a rattle, then maybe ignoring it is the lesser evil. With holding the technical details makes it tough to know.

It sounds like you got "screwed". It's interesting to wonder if that "screw" stays with you, or gets levied onto your insurance company, an unsuspecting buyer, etc. Hence all the anonymity, perhaps. Buying used cars is a minefield sometimes. Yikes.

Does it have to be fixed? If it's just a rattle, then maybe ignoring it is the lesser evil. With holding the technical details makes it tough to know.

It sounds like you got "screwed". It's interesting to wonder if that "screw" stays with you, or gets levied onto your insurance company, an unsuspecting buyer, etc. Hence all the anonymity, perhaps. Buying used cars is a minefield sometimes. Yikes.

 

I was kinda thinking this same thing. I suspect a trade in to a store on another vehicle and then the product getting passed. I hate to say it happens all the time, but it does. I am not in love with the idea and I figured this was the source of the anonymity. I hope his insurance can get it sorted or that someone will help. I hate to see someone else inherit the problem. The throwaway account seems kinda suspect.

 

That said, still hope you get it resolved. I hate to see someone with a car that is broken or in a situation that puts them in a hard spot.

 

Most manufacturers have a "rust" warranty for like 10 years I think. Read the manual, maybe not rust but along the same lines.

 

I hired a redneck machinist to weld an old engine block a long time ago with the engine STILL ASSEMBLED. He dropped the oil pan and welded the block, no normal person would do this but I found the right fabricator to do so. Worked out fine just need to find the right person.

 

 

Does it have to be fixed? If it's just a rattle, then maybe ignoring it is the lesser evil. With holding the technical details makes it tough to know.

It sounds like you got "screwed". It's interesting to wonder if that "screw" stays with you, or gets levied onto your insurance company, an unsuspecting buyer, etc. Hence all the anonymity, perhaps. Buying used cars is a minefield sometimes. Yikes.

 

 

 

That's exactly what's going to happen. Someone else is about to inherit this problem.

That's exactly what's going to happen. Someone else is about to inherit this problem.

 

If it's at an authorized repair facility, won't there be notes on the diagnostics portion in Lambos system? Or might this evaluation never have existed in the eyes of the current owner, lambos records department, etc?

 

If I had to guess, the "repair" will involve some 2 part epoxy to stop the rattle and that will be it.

If it's at an authorized repair facility, won't there be notes on the diagnostics portion in Lambos system? Or might this evaluation never have existed in the eyes of the current owner, lambos records department, etc?

 

If I had to guess, the "repair" will involve some 2 part epoxy to stop the rattle and that will be it.

 

 

 

 

Tough situation. Body shop will have notes but OP is under no obligation to fix if at all. So then we get into the topic of disclosure upon sale. That's where it gets interesting.

Tough situation. Body shop will have notes but OP is under no obligation to fix if at all. So then we get into the topic of disclosure upon sale. That's where it gets interesting.

 

Unlike homes there is no LEGAL recourse to disclose as far as I know. There may be a MORAL obligation but when $ is at stake, morals usually take the back burner.

Unlike homes there is no LEGAL recourse to disclose as far as I know. There may be a MORAL obligation but when $ is at stake, morals usually take the back burner.

 

In general I think that's right (although there could be state-specific disclosure requirements we don't know about), but the principle of buying a used car "as is" has a substantial basis on the notion that the buyer is free to inspect the car and presumably discover any defects. This involves hidden, potentially major damage only discovered through "significant disassembly," so a buyer has no realistic opportunity to find it, even with a thorough PPI. I can tell you if I bought this car and later found out what was wrong with it and that the seller knew about it but failed to disclose it, I would sue his ass off and take my chances, and I wouldn't want his side of the case with a judge or a jury.

Unlike homes there is no LEGAL recourse to disclose as far as I know. There may be a MORAL obligation but when $ is at stake, morals usually take the back burner.

 

You are not required to disclose damage or paint work or whatever ails a used car during a sale. The can will get kicked down the road.

 

Hence the account funny business, hence the no posting of the damaged component, etc. etc. We've seen this a million times on here before, often times we end up in the middle of it...

For a snapped weld someone is taking you for a very looong ride around the block at $40k.

 

Also why would Lambo fix it? It's not a common issue with their cars, who knows what's happened with this car in the hands of you and/or the previous owners.

I remember years ago a guy here who enjoyed to drive his brand new Ford at high speed over a fairly step hill in order to get airborne, after a number of attempts at landing he just about snapped the chassis in half, he was stuck with the repairs, mainly for being an idiot, I am not accusing you of doing such things but strange things happen all the time.

 

Good luck with your car, if I were you I would seek a second opinion on costs to repair.

JB Weld Yo!

We've seen this a million times on here before, often times we end up in the middle of it...

 

This is something I have often wondered about with liability and the boards when it comes to things like this. Do you guys have any kind of exposure?

 

Thanks a lot everybody for your feedback, its much appreciated. I am going to get a second (or third?) opinion for sure. Maybe the whole thing is overblown, I'm a bit upset over it, but the car isn't going to fall apart or anything. It's just an annoyance.

Thanks a lot everybody for your feedback, its much appreciated. I am going to get a second (or third?) opinion for sure. Maybe the whole thing is overblown, I'm a bit upset over it, but the car isn't going to fall apart or anything. It's just an annoyance.

 

 

I fail to understand why this isn't an insurance claim? If it is Lambos fault, your insurance will pay you to either fix it or total the car then subrogate the claim to the factory.

 

What's the big deal?

I fail to understand why this isn't an insurance claim? If it is Lambos fault, your insurance will pay you to either fix it or total the car then subrogate the claim to the factory.

 

What's the big deal?

 

 

Who in their right mind would go straight to an insurance claim when it is obviously a manufacturer defect?

 

Who in their right mind would go straight to an insurance claim when it is obviously a manufacturer defect?

 

 

An idiot like me would. I would rather get paid or have the car fixed by the insurer then let the insurance company deal with subrogation issues. Happens all the time in my business and who would you rather have fight the manufacturer, you or your insurance company?