458 speciale gets beat up by 650s!

You do realize Ferrari allready have a TT car in production right?

 

I thought I said that already? U mean since the California and the maserati launched not too long ago? That engine in its various guises powers maserati qp, California and the 458tt upcoming.... Which means recently and it means after 25 years since their last tt system... I'd wait it out a bit for them to iron out any teething problems.

 

 

Neither would I, but you all go on like Ferraris new V8TT Tech will be this and that and totally new for them, when in fact, they allready have one up and running.

 

Also, my R8 Spyder S-Tronic is the coolest, best, fastest and bestlooking car on the planet

 

If the 458T engine shares the same characteristics as the California T (other than power output), then IMHO it's going to be a big disappointment. The Cali is a GT car which is benefited by a more mellow engine. Even turbocharged, the 458T engine should hopefully be a screamer and I am hoping they push the rpm to 9,000. No reason why they couldn't if McLaren is going to 8.5K. Ferrari has impressed me lately with some of its tech, I'm waiting to see if they can do it with the 458T.

Ferrari tech is brilliant and they took take a long time developing

Ferrari were looking at 1.3lite engines with sequential turbos around 1998 iirc.

 

 

I thought I said that already? U mean since the California and the maserati launched not too long ago? That engine in its various guises powers maserati qp, California and the 458tt upcoming.... Which means recently and it means after 25 years since their last tt system... I'd wait it out a bit for them to iron out any teething problems.

 

My friend has a Cali T and he is very pleased, I'm sure they have the hang of it now. Especially with the new F1 rules.

 

 

If the 458T engine shares the same characteristics as the California T (other than power output), then IMHO it's going to be a big disappointment. The Cali is a GT car which is benefited by a more mellow engine. Even turbocharged, the 458T engine should hopefully be a screamer and I am hoping they push the rpm to 9,000. No reason why they couldn't if McLaren is going to 8.5K. Ferrari has impressed me lately with some of its tech, I'm waiting to see if they can do it with the 458T.

 

They will definately use the same block/Engine and tweak it, it makes most sense out of a buisness perspective. I agree with you that Ferrari would want the new 4XX to be fairly different from the Cali, but not by as much as you and I would like. There are new times now and exotics are going more and more softcore. The Mac is as easy to drive as a regular luxurysedan, if not easier. The same goes for my chunky V10, Audi got it right with the dualclutch this time.

 

 

 

the reality is that Ferrari 458 are underpowered compared to the macs...

 

It's hard to see where this comment is basing to.

Try to drive either car with full throttle on a curvy road, or anywhere else outside of german motorways and in real world it's impossible.

You can over come any power advance by just keeping throttle pinned for a couple of seconds more.

Usually NA engine will have better traction out of corners because hp rises with wheel speed, where as turbo car will break more easily traction with over saturated torque curve.

There are so many great points to high revving naturally aspirated engine that I wont even go to that, let's just enjoy them while we have them.

 

Both of them are dream cars and another might be faster on straight line but I don't think there is such a thing as underpowered modern supercar.

It's hard to see where this comment is basing to.

Try to drive either car with full throttle on a curvy road, or anywhere else outside of german motorways and in real world it's impossible.

You can over come any power advance by just keeping throttle pinned for a couple of seconds more.

Usually NA engine will have better traction out of corners because hp rises with wheel speed, where as turbo car will break more easily traction with over saturated torque curve.

There are so many great points to high revving naturally aspirated engine that I wont even go to that, let's just enjoy them while we have them.

 

Both of them are dream cars and another might be faster on straight line but I don't think there is such a thing as underpowered modern supercar.

 

I don't buy this tired, worn out argument. Yes, all cars today are too fast for ordinary driving conditions in traffic, but I can find plenty of opportunities to open my cars up on the road when the conditions allow and traffic is light, and I live in a major metropolitan area. If I drive an hour in any direction I can be on a straight, flat Interstate highway which, in the early hours of the morning, have no cars on them whatsoever. But all that doesn't change the fact that the McLaren is notably quicker in a straight line than the 458, and that's due, primarily, to the fact that the 458 has significantly less power and area under the torque curve than the McLaren. It's a fact, not subjective or subject to someone's logic that makes that fact unimportant to them.

I don't buy this tired, worn out argument. Yes, all cars today are too fast for ordinary driving conditions in traffic, but I can find plenty of opportunities to open my cars up on the road when the conditions allow and traffic is light, and I live in a major metropolitan area. If I drive an hour in any direction I can be on a straight, flat Interstate highway which, in the early hours of the morning, have no cars on them whatsoever. But all that doesn't change the fact that the McLaren is notably quicker in a straight line than the 458, and that's due, primarily, to the fact that the 458 has significantly less power and area under the torque curve than the McLaren. It's a fact, not subjective or subject to someone's logic that makes that fact unimportant to them.

I would also add, not just quicker in a straight line but also on the track. I like the 458 but its a little behind with tech vs the McLaren. now, the new 458 might be a game changer!

I don't buy this tired, worn out argument. Yes, all cars today are too fast for ordinary driving conditions in traffic, but I can find plenty of opportunities to open my cars up on the road when the conditions allow and traffic is light, and I live in a major metropolitan area. If I drive an hour in any direction I can be on a straight, flat Interstate highway which, in the early hours of the morning, have no cars on them whatsoever. But all that doesn't change the fact that the McLaren is notably quicker in a straight line than the 458, and that's due, primarily, to the fact that the 458 has significantly less power and area under the torque curve than the McLaren. It's a fact, not subjective or subject to someone's logic that makes that fact unimportant to them.

 

cool pic with 650 speciale & GT3

Owner is a member here, the number plates are equality as impressive.

Owner is a member here, the number plates are equality as impressive.

yeah I saw his post.. very impressive!

its funny how the GT3 looks like a go kart next to those beasts.

I tested a 650s today. I wasn't looking for it. The dealer just contacted me out of the blue and offered. It would have been rude to say no.

They had a rolling chassis fitted with engine and mechanicals. Vey cool. Here are a few photos:-

 

I'm not going to do a full review. Here are a few impressions.

 

The car was very easy to drive. Could easily be a daily driver.

The styling is a vast improvement over the 12c

The steering was precise, positive. Sharp but not too sharp.

Seats and driving position - very comfortable. Visibility good

Ergonomics - very good. Controls easy to use and intuitive.

Noise (sports exhaust fitted) - OK. Not great but not bad either.

Brakes. I didn't challenge these so all I can say is the pedal felt very numb. I know this can be a characteristic of CC brakes but I have had other cars fitted with CC and there was much more feedback through my foot.

 

I went in sceptical but came away 90% convinced. All in all a very nice car. Much better than the 458 which I just couldn't warm to. Others will have a different view.

The price was £215 coupe, £235 convertible. My test car had £40 of exhaust and exterior CF making it an eye watering £275k ($448k)

 

When I got home I went out in the Murcie, if for no other reason, my own sanity. And although less refined, less sophisticated, slower, heavier.........and so on, I know where I will be staying and where my heart is. I guess I am just a raw, sometimes brutal, na V12 sort of guy.

Anyway, a few photos of the test car next to my Landrover and other forecourt locations

I agree with the brake feel on the 650s. They felt mushy, and I didnt like the feel compared to steel brakes on my 12c. Overall the 650s feels almost exactly like the 12c but maybe 5% better sorted all around. You are essentially paying for the styling change. I drove the Huracan right after the 650s, and well I have to admit I have zero interest in owning a Mclaren now....

I agree with the brake feel on the 650s. They felt mushy, and I didnt like the feel compared to steel brakes on my 12c. Overall the 650s feels almost exactly like the 12c but maybe 5% better sorted all around. You are essentially paying for the styling change. I drove the Huracan right after the 650s, and well I have to admit I have zero interest in owning a Mclaren now....

 

Wow!

I think at this point I know that Lambo hasn't castrated the bull yet, now the wait is a lot more comfortable for me