All-Motor All-Out Racing Gallardo?

Has any Gallardo/R8 owners/shop approached an NA build mod? No, not just exhaust but like higher compression ratio pistons, bigger duration cams with lift to match, longer titanium/steel rods, smaller stroke custom crank, titanium intake valves, inconcel exhaust valves, methanol or VP C25 etc. How much rpm gained? Horsepower? Thanks.

Has any Gallardo/R8 owners/shop approached an NA build mod? No, not just exhaust but like higher compression ratio pistons, bigger duration cams with lift to match, longer titanium/steel rods, smaller stroke custom crank, titanium intake valves, inconcel exhaust valves, methanol or VP C25 etc. How much rpm gained? Horsepower? Thanks.

 

The cost benefit analysis would show that to achieve much higher HP with a build, you'd have to throw stupid money at it. And to be fair, if you are looking for substantial gains, forced induction is the way to go. For the performance, the price is fair, and you'll still have a reliable streetable car.

 

You start talking stroker kits, etc. etc. you'll be doing some serious R&D money and for not a ton more potential.

 

Is this a project you are looking to go after?

 

 

The cost benefit analysis would show that to achieve much higher HP with a build, you'd have to throw stupid money at it. And to be fair, if you are looking for substantial gains, forced induction is the way to go. For the performance, the price is fair, and you'll still have a reliable streetable car.

 

You start talking stroker kits, etc. etc. you'll be doing some serious R&D money and for not a ton more potential.

 

Is this a project you are looking to go after?

 

 

I have wondered about this too. You look at what UGR is charging for these big horsepower kits, you are talking in the 150k range on top of the car. I wonder what you could get out of a NA build for the same dough. I would imagine that you could track the car a little more easily if you had a NA motor as opposed to the forced induction. I wonder if that is where the OP is coming from? Not everyone is looking for monster power for the street in a straight line I guess.

 

I wouldn't mind seeing where this thread goes.

I have wondered about this too. You look at what UGR is charging for these big horsepower kits, you are talking in the 150k range on top of the car. I wonder what you could get out of a NA build for the same dough. I would imagine that you could track the car a little more easily if you had a NA motor as opposed to the forced induction. I wonder if that is where the OP is coming from? Not everyone is looking for monster power for the street in a straight line I guess.

 

I wouldn't mind seeing where this thread goes.

 

This is purely speculation, but I think you'd end up spending a ton of money for not near the power. You might be able to get custom grind cams, pistons, rods, etc. and move around the power band a bit, gain some torque and drop out some peak HP. 560 is plenty for a track car, but truth be told, if I was going to get a track car it wouldn't be a Gallardo.

 

That being said, if the OP was looking to get an additional 200+ horsepower out of the car, FI is the route to go.

I'm sure you could with higher compression and ported heads, but the drivability begins to suck ass when you get into cams that really work in the upper RPM ranges. And even then you're not going to be anywhere near the HP levels of even a basic bolt-on turbo kit. Getting 800hp to the tires N/A would be pushing it, then you're out of the range of pump gas, etc etc.

 

It's one of those things that would push the car further and further from something you wanted to drive on the street.

The cost benefit analysis would show that to achieve much higher HP with a build, you'd have to throw stupid money at it. And to be fair, if you are looking for substantial gains, forced induction is the way to go. For the performance, the price is fair, and you'll still have a reliable streetable car.

 

You start talking stroker kits, etc. etc. you'll be doing some serious R&D money and for not a ton more potential.

 

Is this a project you are looking to go after?

 

 

I see your point. Yes, tons of money will be required for such project but only in the beginning. I mean getting the numbers/dimensions of the block, head and etc. just to get a baseline on the tooling process (CNC machining) already cost a lot. Please do know that I have nothing against forced induction. I'm a NA kind of guy. I love Pro-Stock drag racing. IMHO, turbos disguises the engine builder's work. But to many, it's the simplest easier way out in able to get the speed a lot of us crave about and it's more streetable.

 

I also asked myself why NA? Why so interested on the Gallardo/R8's V10?

 

Seeing so many owners doing a complete exhaust and re-mapped ecu then a huge jump to a TT kit frustrates me. Come on! Really? No one ventured on having the motor analyzed by an expert engine builder to see if any more power can be squeezed on a NA platform? All racing engine buildesr will tell you this and can vouch for it...the major problem of the Gallardo's engine is its configuration. It's undersquared. Small bore and bigger stroke. You cannot build a real racing engine with that. Not at all!!! Just the side load of the pistons on the cylinder walls and piston speed is already putting a lot of stress on the block and on the wrist pins. This motor should rev to 11K with no problem But it needs some major reconfiguration inside the short block. Now, I have not seen the block how tall the deck or how far it can be bored-out but with a combination of a bigger bore and a smaller stroke (custom crank), a longer rod should be a good start for a real racing engine short block. For the cylinder head, I have not seen the ports or combustion chambers yet but the power is all in the cylinder head. I stand by this truth, any engine builder that can make good power in a NA platform can make any FI powered car have more power than you can ever imagine. Let's say you have NOW an oversquared bottom end that will allow you to rev to at least 10K and add couple turbos. Which one do you think has an advantage? Answer? Does bears poop in the forest?

I have wondered about this too. You look at what UGR is charging for these big horsepower kits, you are talking in the 150k range on top of the car. I wonder what you could get out of a NA build for the same dough. I would imagine that you could track the car a little more easily if you had a NA motor as opposed to the forced induction. I wonder if that is where the OP is coming from? Not everyone is looking for monster power for the street in a straight line I guess.

 

I wouldn't mind seeing where this thread goes.

 

I am telling you. Have an oversquared short block will change history.

I'm sure you could with higher compression and ported heads, but the drivability begins to suck ass when you get into cams that really work in the upper RPM ranges. And even then you're not going to be anywhere near the HP levels of even a basic bolt-on turbo kit. Getting 800hp to the tires N/A would be pushing it, then you're out of the range of pump gas, etc etc.

 

It's one of those things that would push the car further and further from something you wanted to drive on the street.

 

Agree. It's not for everyone.

One thing you're not considering here is number of cylinders in relation to displacement and crank stroke for you're under/over square condition. In the grand scheme of 5L motors it's not far off, and cutting displacement by reducing crank stroke just to spin more rpm is doing nothing more than cutting torque and changing where it is in the RPM range, but then you're fighting bearing speeds and a number of other issues. Guys are already turning these things near 10k, and I don't believe crank stroke is the determining factor.

 

Have you analyzed wrist pin placement on the gallardo pistons?

 

Remember, turbos aren't magic either. They need a well performing motor with good head flow or the pressure doesn't do anything to increase air volume. With guys making north of 2k hp on these motors I tend to think they are doing just fine.

 

That being said, if you have $50k laying around and want to play with porting the heads on your car, custom cutting a dozen different cams to test, having a billet crank/rod/piston set made, and then tuning it all. Well by damn I'm all ears and would love to see it.

One thing you're not considering here is number of cylinders in relation to displacement and crank stroke for you're under/over square condition. In the grand scheme of 5L motors it's not far off, and cutting displacement by reducing crank stroke just to spin more rpm is doing nothing more than cutting torque and changing where it is in the RPM range, but then you're fighting bearing speeds and a number of other issues. Guys are already turning these things near 10k, and I don't believe crank stroke is the determining factor.

 

Have you analyzed wrist pin placement on the gallardo pistons?

 

Remember, turbos aren't magic either. They need a well performing motor with good head flow or the pressure doesn't do anything to increase air volume. With guys making north of 2k hp on these motors I tend to think they are doing just fine.

 

That being said, if you have $50k laying around and want to play with porting the heads on your car, custom cutting a dozen different cams to test, having a billet crank/rod/piston set made, and then tuning it all. Well by damn I'm all ears and would love to see it.

 

I already have a combination that would make any V10 sing better. Ignition sequence alone is so much smoother compared to lesser cylinder engines. Also changing the firing order will help on the vibration and harmonics in the block. I don't really care about cutting torque because I'm not after on low-mid range power (good for street cars). I am after top-end, all-out racing engine where rpm drops on near its peak power during every upshifts. Correct me if I'm wrong, I believe the oiling system on these V10s are dry sump so bearing speeds is the least of my problems. Besides, less stroke will lessen the bearing load anyways and I have the oil for it. Anyways, if guys were turning these undersquared motors near 10k then it will not last long. And yes, I have analyzed the wrist pins placement and there's room for improvement. With less load on the side of the cylinder walls and piston speed will also be reduced, a F1 style (less weight) pistons would be the ideal choice. OMG...this is just the block and I have not touched the cylinder heads yet. In a 4 valve head, ports and chambers have a predominant "tumble" characteristics and with "minimal" or no "swirl" capability for the most part of their design. The key is to balance both "tumble" and get that "swirl", this will effectively enhance the combustion process when combined with "quench". The process to do that...well, I can't really share all the details. It's all in the chambers.

 

I don't have $50k laying around but a free junk or blown head would be a good start . The reciprocating parts for the short block is easier to get it together. I am worried more for the cylinder head. Everything has to be custom. $30k +/- is only for parts but to get the magic "twirl", which is the labor intensive part on the cylinder heads may take some time and money to get it right.

Wait, so you're really just repeating pretty "basic" engine tech terminology here with no means to bring it to fruition?

 

Come back to this if/when it's going somewhere.

Wait, so you're really just repeating pretty "basic" engine tech terminology here with no means to bring it to fruition?

 

Come back to this if/when it's going somewhere.

 

You call it all you want "basic" or what not. Obviously you have no experience on the "oversquared" side and its benefits so I think leave the insult to yourself.

 

 

so this dude is just posting all this shit to get someone to front the cash for his experiment. got it.

For track purposes, isn't ~600 HP more than ample? I'm no expert in racing but isn't this the kind of power GT2/3 cars make? Weight, brakes, cooling, suspension, etc is what need more attention, not power. Heck, look at the sesto elemento, makes less power than a huracan, but its a whole other animal.

so this dude is just posting all this shit to get someone to front the cash for his experiment. got it.

 

Where did I say someone needs to put-out the cash in able for me to start this experiment? Hey man, there's nothing wrong to ask I if anyone has a blown or junk head for free. Besides, how many engines have you built? Oh and that "shit" that I posted, which you are referring to is exactly right since you don't know anything about. Rather than thinking out-of-the-box a few here are trapped in a mud sack. smh...

 

And

 

BTW, the GTR guys are much receptive to these kinds of mechanical prowess. Maybe because they were picked-on with bigger motors like the undersquared Gallardo V10s, which made them dig deeper on how to get an advantage, which they already have...TI and Shift Sector wins!

 

I guess I'll just go back to my latest project. It's domestic. A Yates block and head, 4.5 bore space and etc. It will be in a Ford GT, will rev to 11K rpm and it will have two large turbos.

I guess I'll just go back to my latest project.

 

Thanks, see ya. Come back when it runs. You and Stig can have a faceoff.

For track purposes, isn't ~600 HP more than ample? I'm no expert in racing but isn't this the kind of power GT2/3 cars make? Weight, brakes, cooling, suspension, etc is what need more attention, not power. Heck, look at the sesto elemento, makes less power than a huracan, but its a whole other animal.

Thanks, see ya. Come back when it runs. You and Stig can have a faceoff.

 

Spare me from your troll kind of response and leave this thread if you have nothing to provide for the community. I know we are all open to our own perspective but if your pride blocks you from opinions or facts from other forum members then that's not my fault. Oh, about the Stig. He can drive our Ford GT when it's done.

For track purposes, isn't ~600 HP more than ample? I'm no expert in racing but isn't this the kind of power GT2/3 cars make? Weight, brakes, cooling, suspension, etc is what need more attention, not power. Heck, look at the sesto elemento, makes less power than a huracan, but its a whole other animal.

 

If strictly for track purposes, depending on rules and regulations, 600 hp could be enough or too much or too little. Referring to FIA GT series cars, the GT1 cars can use exotic materials but also have restrictions because of different engines used and they are not necessarily lighter than GT3 cars, which is almost close to production cars. Yes, it's the overall balance of every mechanism and not just power. The Elemento would be Colin Chapman's dream of a street car if he was still alive.

This thread went well. I can understand the curiosity but why test the waters with an NA build when you can get a simple, reliable bolt on TT and be done with it. If you really want an NA V10, then go with a Viper. Sure it could be done with the Gallardo V10 but the result won't be worth the $$.

This thread went well. I can understand the curiosity but why test the waters with an NA build when you can get a simple, reliable bolt on TT and be done with it. If you really want an NA V10, then go with a Viper. Sure it could be done with the Gallardo V10 but the result won't be worth the $$.

 

Your point absolutely taken. The silver lining on this besides the cost is there's horsepower to be gained. I think the NA head can breathe more when the bottom-end is capable to rev further. A lot of work to be done especially on the head. I'm getting one soon. I'm hoping we'll get an extra flow with good volume and great velocity. Can't wait to see the chambers! We might do the head first and slap it in. The bottom-end can wait and it's the least thing to tackle but we may need to get the numbers from the crank so we can order it from Bryant Racing. Once an engine could breathe better without the help of FI; how much more do you think when it's FI?