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I dont think anyone is disagreeing that the market is slow right now. Is it heaeing back to the level before the boom? Not a chance. I can't think of anyexotics that are really still gaining at the moment.

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I dont think anyone is disagreeing that the market is slow right now. Is it heaeing back to the level before the boom? Not a chance. I can't think of anyexotics that are really still gaining at the moment.

 

 

I agree with that fully. I do think the "low mile/pristine" cars aren't always the "best" and people have this false impression that the car won't have problems. My car was purchased with 72km, had just had an engine out service, new clutch, shocks rebuilt, etc. I drove it a year without a single problem. It has some road scuffs and some "use" imperfections, but still a 97.5 Roadster, original paint, pristine interior. Now, all these cars are going to have issues that arise no matter. Bushings (these are 20 year old cars and old rubber deteriorates no matter how little use), shocks will leak, things will fail as these cars are getting old!! If someone will pay 100k more low mile (whatever the definition of that is) for a car to sit in a warehouse with their other collectibles, then it may never even be noticed that these things will be issues. I think I'm in the minority that a drive well sorted car serviced regularly car will have fewer issues in the long run. My $.02 worth!!

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Big difference between a 97 and a 99. Who is "we"? lol . Do you own a Lambo?

 

i am not sure why you say big difference btw 97 and 99

i can understand the 6.0 is quite different from the rest, not sayng better or worst, but sure different

but a roadster 95-96...99...they are almost the same

 

and the same goes for VT or SV imo: take an early SV or late SV, probably a euro car is more different in the same year than a US 96 is from a US 99

 

 

i do not like the most notable difference: fixed lights (nissan 300Zx)

 

as for the most important interior difference: 99 dash looks not so much nicer than the 94-98 to me.

i mean i like both, you can prefer one or other but neither is bad looking

yes, the early big TV 2wd dash was ugly but from 93-94 they stopped making them

 

the other differences btw a 95-97 to 99 (power gain, airbags, abs....) are some good and some bad but nothing major

i mean 530 hp vs 520 vs 492 quoted....so close that hardly can be noticed, not to mention the dyno runs for diablos usually have very closer results and the later cars got heavier for the ABS, airbags, variable timing etc...

 

99 commands a premium over the older years but i venture to guess it could change.

the reason being the original diablo look was the pop up car and lot of nostalgic people for pop up cars in their 30's and 40's now

 

p.s. i have NOTHING against the 99 diablos, but i always thought the fixed lights look better on 6.0 and GT than on the rest of diablos. the reason being the GT and 6.0 were designed for them, the other cars adapted to fixed lights

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i am not sure why you say big difference btw 97 and 99

i can understand the 6.0 is quite different from the rest, not sayng better or worst, but sure different

but a roadster 95-96...99...they are almost the same

 

and the same goes for VT or SV imo: take an early SV or late SV, probably a euro car is more different in the same year than a US 96 is from a US 99

 

 

i do not like the most notable difference: fixed lights (nissan 300Zx)

 

as for the most important interior difference: 99 dash looks not so much nicer than the 94-98 to me.

i mean i like both, you can prefer one or other but neither is bad looking

yes, the early big TV 2wd dash was ugly but from 93-94 they stopped making them

 

the other differences btw a 95-97 to 99 (power gain, airbags, abs....) are some good and some bad but nothing major

i mean 530 hp vs 520 vs 492 quoted....so close that hardly can be noticed, not to mention the dyno runs for diablos usually have very closer results and the later cars got heavier for the ABS, airbags, variable timing etc...

 

99 commands a premium over the older years but i venture to guess it could change.

the reason being the original diablo look was the pop up car and lot of nostalgic people for pop up cars in their 30's and 40's now

 

p.s. i have NOTHING against the 99 diablos, but i always thought the fixed lights look better on 6.0 and GT than on the rest of diablos. the reason being the GT and 6.0 were designed for them, the other cars adapted to fixed lights

 

Lets see, variable timing for cams (big technology btw) verse standard timing, fixed headlights vs pop up and major instrument panel change. Like I said big difference between the two and the price reflects it. The 99 will always command a bigger price in my opinion. Most think the instrument panel is much nicer that the previous cars and it is pre 6.0. Not knocking your car if you have a pre variable timing but it is a noticable horsepower difference and it will always top the previous years in value. Love that car in silver btw. Also love the wheels. Just one persons opinion : )

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Lets see, variable timing for cams (big technology btw) verse standard timing, fixed headlights vs pop up and major instrument panel change. Like I said big difference between the two and the price reflects it. The 99 will always command a bigger price in my opinion. Most think the instrument panel is much nicer that the previous cars and it is pre 6.0. Not knocking your car if you have a pre variable timing but it is a noticable horsepower difference and it will always top the previous years in value. Love that car in silver btw. Also love the wheels. Just one persons opinion : )

 

2 things to add:

1. 98 onwards cars had bigger brakes (with 18" wheels), so stop much better - carried over to Murcielago incidentally.

2. 99's were the last cars before Audi took over

 

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having 2 diablos and having droven more

 

- very early cars have some reliability and quality issues (1990-91 mostly)

- early cars (90-93) have poor brakes

- mid cars with Brembo brakes have good brakes and no ABS (perfect)

- late cars have best brakes, BUT ABS in the late cars is not good

- the later the diablo the more complicated and more thing tha can fail - go wrong

- electronic absorbers with lifting are a BIG pain...they fail, all do sooner or later

 

P.S. Audi bought Lamborghini in 1998, so 1999 are the first cars made when AUDI took over

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Right, the VT 6.0 was designed under VW-Audi.

Many body parts are different.

 

To my mind the 99+ interior stopped looking Italian (say, stopped looking Lamborghini).

 

If you have a "facelift" disease (when people only want later versions of cars, i.e. post-facelift), it's okay. But there's a lot more Lamborghini protest/scandal feel in the early styling than the later.

 

The only good thing about 6.0 is that they could be ordered with shorter ratios, making it quicker. Not dramatically, but basically 8-10% short ratios were possible.

 

And yes, after 1996 (?) while you got a lighter clutch, it's a lot mechanically weaker and sometimes the fork breaks. I don't find early clutch hard at all.

 

P.S. I don't find LM002 clutch hard as well, haha. I liked bicycles as a kid, yeah.

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Right, the VT 6.0 was designed under VW-Audi.

Many body parts are different.

 

To my mind the 99+ interior stopped looking Italian (say, stopped looking Lamborghini).

 

If you have a "facelift" disease (when people only want later versions of cars, i.e. post-facelift), it's okay. But there's a lot more Lamborghini protest/scandal feel in the early styling than the later.

 

The only good thing about 6.0 is that they could be ordered with shorter ratios, making it quicker. Not dramatically, but basically 8-10% short ratios were possible.

 

And yes, after 1996 (?) while you got a lighter clutch, it's a lot mechanically weaker and sometimes the fork breaks. I don't find early clutch hard at all.

 

P.S. I don't find LM002 clutch hard as well, haha. I liked bicycles as a kid, yeah.

 

a few facts if I may:

short ratio gearboxes were available with the SVs from 96 I believe, definitely on 98/99 cars to improve acceleration (limits top speed to 186mph).

fixed headlights were becoming mandatory due to European pedestrian impact regulations, so I suspect that's why Lamborghini considered them, as well as the refresh reason.

The dash was first proposed around 1996 by the Swiss importer Affolter, and fitted to many of his modified cars from around that year.

The GT and 6.0 dash is different from the 1999 - and the 1999 has one definitely non-Audi feature that you see in all the previous versions as well - exposed screw heads! - So I think you'll find the 99 dash is not an Audi product.

Clutch lever is easily replaceable btw with a Custer one, so problem solved on that one.

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I agree with that fully. I do think the "low mile/pristine" cars aren't always the "best" and people have this false impression that the car won't have problems.

 

So true. Bought a 99 SV last September for strong $ - very low and documented miles (around 6k I think; I haven't see it in so long that I forgot). Well a 3 week service visit is going on 9 months now. It's the 'age' items that are the problem. And I don't care how much you drive your car; driving it 100k miles won't make the bushings/gaskets/rubber last any longer.

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So true. Bought a 99 SV last September for strong $ - very low and documented miles (around 6k I think; I haven't see it in so long that I forgot). Well a 3 week service visit is going on 9 months now. It's the 'age' items that are the problem. And I don't care how much you drive your car; driving it 100k miles won't make the bushings/gaskets/rubber last any longer.

 

Unreal, what are the issues?!

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Unreal, what are the issues?!

 

cars stood still (unused) will generally seize up moving components, and rubber components will rot with fuel etc sat in them.

Cars that are used regularly, have less chance of failure

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Very true on that point. The blue '91 in Ontario with the 6.0 wheels comes to mind there. I saw that car in person; utter crap, and the dealer that subsequently got their hands on it priced it at $299k. This is going back nearly 2 years though.

 

I think its a stalemate of a market at present. There's inventory but not sales. To me - that says the buyers market is coming.

 

You need to read the newly posted trouble or nightmare with your "low cost" car suggestion on the Murcie title and see what always happens. You don't get cheap deals on good cars....Period!

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You need to read the newly posted trouble or nightmare with your "low cost" car suggestion on the Murcie title and see what always happens. You don't get cheap deals on good cars....Period!

 

That is not necessarily true. There are "cheaper" cars that won't have the issues that a very little used car will have. I bought my 97.5 Roadster with 72,000km. I plan on hitting 100k km. Like the mechanic and guys who did the ppi said, if it has 72k km then its been taken care of and everything that could/would go wrong has been replaced. Car had just had an engine out, major service and new clutch prior to purchase. I have driven the heck out of the car for the last year with no issues. I put about 3000km on it the first 2 months. Yes, the car has some imperfections (computer for the adjustable suspension stays on Auto) and little things like auto release for the convertible top inop, bushing all starting to show their age, but none of this made the car unusable or unreliable. I got all this in a ppi and knew that over the next few years it would need some of these basic things that probably every 20 year old Diablo would need. If someone is buying a car to use and drive then find a higher mileage car thats been taken care of. Granted that may be harder said than done, but just because you buy a 5000 mile car doesn't mean its not almost 20 years old and things are going to fail. If it's going to sit in a garage or show room, then by all means go for the "pristine" "low mile" car. For me a car no fun unless I'm behind the wheel.

 

 

I think everyone needs to have an intended use before just saying "get this or that car". If you plan to buy...put a thousand or two miles on the car in a few years then sell, you do want to purchase a more "perfect" car.

 

I think if you look at a cheap car and get a PPI from someone who knows the Diablo, then no matter what the price you will know what you are buying. It's worth $1000 or more to have some fly to look at the car or pay to get it transported to a person who knows Diablo's well and give it a once over.

 

 

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That is not necessarily true. There are "cheaper" cars that won't have the issues that a very little used car will have. I bought my 97.5 Roadster with 72,000km. I plan on hitting 100k km. Like the mechanic and guys who did the ppi said, if it has 72k km then its been taken care of and everything that could/would go wrong has been replaced. Car had just had an engine out, major service and new clutch prior to purchase. I have driven the heck out of the car for the last year with no issues. I put about 3000km on it the first 2 months. Yes, the car has some imperfections (computer for the adjustable suspension stays on Auto) and little things like auto release for the convertible top inop, bushing all starting to show their age, but none of this made the car unusable or unreliable. I got all this in a ppi and knew that over the next few years it would need some of these basic things that probably every 20 year old Diablo would need. If someone is buying a car to use and drive then find a higher mileage car thats been taken care of. Granted that may be harder said than done, but just because you buy a 5000 mile car doesn't mean its not almost 20 years old and things are going to fail. If it's going to sit in a garage or show room, then by all means go for the "pristine" "low mile" car. For me a car no fun unless I'm behind the wheel.

 

 

I think everyone needs to have an intended use before just saying "get this or that car". If you plan to buy...put a thousand or two miles on the car in a few years then sell, you do want to purchase a more "perfect" car.

 

I think if you look at a cheap car and get a PPI from someone who knows the Diablo, then no matter what the price you will know what you are buying. It's worth $1000 or more to have some fly to look at the car or pay to get it transported to a person who knows Diablo's well and give it a once over.

 

Always an exception. I was speaking in a general demeanor.

 

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I know the previous owner of this car...he takes impeccable care of his cars.

 

As for value, a car, no matter what it is, is only worth what someone will pay for it. Having said that, you need to compare apples to apples...you cannot compare pricing of a 97 roadster to that of a 99 roadster, they are two completely different vehicles. There are a few good examples on the market, the black one Roy has is an excellent example of a 99 roadster, I found that car for the previous owner several years ago with very low miles and it was prestine at the time and appears to be in the same condition.

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I know the previous owner of this car...he takes impeccable care of his cars.

 

As for value, a car, no matter what it is, is only worth what someone will pay for it. Having said that, you need to compare apples to apples...you cannot compare pricing of a 97 roadster to that of a 99 roadster, they are two completely different vehicles. There are a few good examples on the market, the black one Roy has is an excellent example of a 99 roadster, I found that car for the previous owner several years ago with very low miles and it was prestine at the time and appears to be in the same condition.

 

If Roy has a black 99 Roadster for sale, it's not on his website.

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This will deviate from the original subject, but it got me to thinking about future values. Of course the pristine cars will always demand a premium, but the cost to fix these cars will do nothing but increase. For average cars, the repair to value curve may well have crossed. We say we don't care about value, we just want to drive them, but that's bull. Can you imagine a disposable Diablo in the future? Do the dealerships even want to work on them anymore? Some cars will surely face this scenario.

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This will deviate from the original subject, but it got me to thinking about future values. Of course the pristine cars will always demand a premium, but the cost to fix these cars will do nothing but increase. For average cars, the repair to value curve may well have crossed. We say we don't care about value, we just want to drive them, but that's bull. Can you imagine a disposable Diablo in the future? Some cars will surely face this scenario.

 

 

You are correct. Some parts are already unavailable. IE, in the later cars the shocks have electronics that allow them to adjust to suspension settings. They are no longer made so as these fail, you just lose the ability of the computer to adjust the suspension. Car still rides fine but this feature is lost. How many with later Diablos are still able to adjust your suspension settings?

 

I just bought the last shock from Evans. (mucho dinaro). They said they can't find any and have tried for someone to reman a shock but all have failed. Shocks can be rebuilt but this feature is not. I found two used shocks but both needed rebuilt but no guarantee if the electronic worked.

 

I think about the "rudimentary" guts of these cars and think how hard will it be to repair a Aventador, new Ford GT, Mac, etc in 20 years. All the electronic nannies...age and electronics are not compatible.

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So true. Bought a 99 SV last September for strong $ - very low and documented miles (around 6k I think; I haven't see it in so long that I forgot). Well a 3 week service visit is going on 9 months now. It's the 'age' items that are the problem. And I don't care how much you drive your car; driving it 100k miles won't make the bushings/gaskets/rubber last any longer.

 

It's an 18 year old car. And I hate leaks. So every piece of rubber or gasket is being replaced because I don't like see power steering fluid, or oil, or gear oil, or coolant, or anything else on the ground after I park. Leaks are one type of concern that driving more won't help. It's age-related.

 

Rebuilt all 6 Konis. Maybe driving it more would have helped. But I can't imagine shocks lasting 18 years and still feeling 'good'.

 

A/C issues.

 

Decided to shim the valves.

 

Horn buttons deteriorated.

 

This is off the top of my head. There's been a whole litany of items such as-this. Look, I could have owned it and driven it as-is, but that's not my style.

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