The Benz Driver who killed the guy in Scottsdale

I did not fill in anything..Nor am I projecting.

 

In the first post he speaks of doing some races and producing vids of em. There is absolutely no mention of a legal TRACK just a gathering...

In the next thread

 

He speaks of RACING a MODDED EVO and he doesn't wan't to lose.

 

Spin it how you wish. His words his posts.

 

Now compare what I did to what your buddy did?

 

Hmmmm? I had a play around with a group of exotic cars on the motorway, outside of peak hours on a weekend with few cars.

 

Yep we drove briskly but the key thing here is we didn't kill anyone.

 

Yep I "was" going to race a EVO but I DID NOT!!!! please show me where I said I was going to do this down a busy residential road?

 

Listen bud I am 28 and have more sense that you and your friend put together.....

 

You cannot admit when you are in the wrong....

 

 

The funniest thing is you are argueing with Miyagi, who doesnt even live in the U.S. Lets say he likes do to 200mph on his way to work and race every person in site whether they be in a car or bicycle,

 

nope , Miyagi just claimed he never raced ,

 

you gonna claim that too spaceship racer

 

 

Śpią dobrze

Now compare what I did to what your buddy did?

 

Hmmmm? I had a play around with a group of exotic cars on the motorway, outside of peak hours on a weekend with few cars.

 

Yep we drove briskly but the key thing here is we didn't kill anyone.

 

Yep I "was" going to race a EVO but I DID NOT!!!! please show me where I said I was going to do this down a busy residential road?

 

Listen bud I am 28 and have more sense that you and your friend put together.....

 

You cannot admit when you are in the wrong....

 

 

You cant even get an offshore account I have 10 of em. He was not racing he was speeding , now claim you have never sped? Scottsdale rd is a COMMERCIAL rd and you could easily kill someone , pretending your better than him is pompous

Go for it. My SN is Romandad and I have over 9000 posts.... Find it.

Terrible analogy. If I snort heroin, I only harm myself... If I street race on a crowded street at rush hour I endanger EVERYBODY ON THE ROAD.

 

 

Its not a terrible analogy. "Snorting heroin" is still wrong. No matter where you do it or how many people you think could be affected.

nope , Miyagi just claimed he never raced ,

 

you gonna claim that too spaceship racer

Śpią dobrze

 

I will sleep very well tonight, thank you. My conscience is clear. As I have said many times in the past, yes I have raced before, and yes, I have broken the speed limit before. But, I dont race on crowded city streets, I dont race through traffic in the middle of the day, and last but not least, I dont kill anyone.

 

You know when I was very young, John Wayne Gacy lived very close to me in Des Plaines Il. There were a few looneys who believed he was inncocent too. Couldnt believe he was the one who I believe murdered something like 30 young boys. He used to dress like a clown, hmmm your a clown.... maybe Im onto something.

 

You cant even get an offshore account I have 10 of em. He was not racing he was speeding , now claim you have never sped? Scottsdale rd is a COMMERCIAL rd and you could easily kill someone , pretending your better than him is pompous

 

Why can't I? Cos I didn't know how it worked and it's use? Please....

 

Stop trying to compare yourself with me, you can't even make sense on a forum.

 

WHat you bragging about how many accounts you got, next thing you#ll e telling me your dad is bigger than mine

 

He was racing, you know it I know it we all know it.

 

Yes I have sped before I am man enough to admit when I do something wrong....can you say the same?

 

But I haven't taken anyones life and in the process ruined my own families....

 

 

 

You cant even get an offshore account I have 10 of em. He was not racing he was speeding , now claim you have never sped? Scottsdale rd is a COMMERCIAL rd and you could easily kill someone , pretending your better than him is pompous

LOL, upuntil not too long ago you idiots were researching the completely wrong intersection, and now you are an expert on Scottsdale Rd?

 

How about this, Just a few weeks ago, there was a motorcyclist killed on this same road, maybe 2 blocks up, also turning in to see his family. This was heavily publisized on all the forums, and Im sure Bluemax heard about it. Everytime I drive by that corner I think about what happened and even drive slower. What was Bluemax thinking? This ones for you as he floored it next to a POS Mustang?

 

Topcarbon lives 2 minutes from the accident, let him explain to you the amount of traffic on that road.

Just wondering, but was Bluemax a soldier or something? (I keep reading about how he "risks his life" for us?).

 

Also, Allan-Lambo, you mentioned about a "race license" in a previous thread, in order to race at a race track, does one need a race license? Or do you just show up to the track and race...?

I will sleep very well tonight, thank you. My conscience is clear. As I have said many times in the past, yes I have raced before, and yes, I have broken the speed limit before. But, I dont race on crowded city streets, I dont race through traffic in the middle of the day, and last but not least, I dont kill anyone.

 

You know when I was very young, John Wayne Gacy lived very close to me in Des Plaines Il. There were a few looneys who believed he was inncocent too. Couldnt believe he was the one who I believe murdered something like 30 young boys. He used to dress like a clown, hmmm your a clown.... maybe Im onto something.

 

 

JA jestem błazen zabawny ale który jest cały

 

juicee63, you have made one very unreasonable assumption which you think completely vindicates Bluemax but actually is probably not factual.

 

You have presumed that, because the Mercedes was only going ~70mph according to reports after 1,200 feet of travel, he was clearly not under full acceleration and thus was probably not racing the Mustang.

 

A Mercedes E63 runs the quarter mile, which is 1,320 feet, in about 12.2 seconds at about 115mph. A 2005-_ Ford Mustang GT dues it at about 13.5 seconds at about 105mph. So, for 120 less feet, presume about 105mph for the Mercedes and 95mph for the Mustang. Of course, neither speed is ~70mph - but here's where you make your mistake.

 

If a Camaro pulls out in front of you at about 1,100 feet, what do you do? If you're a Mustang and a Mercedes and you're street racing, you slam on the brakes. Suddenly 85mph in a Mustang and 90mph in a Mercedes quickly becomes... 70mph. And then the impact.

 

Allan, you too have made a presumption that you have used to pass judgement perhaps too quickly on Bluemax.

 

You have presumed that, based on what you saw of both the driver of the Camaro and the mangled wreck of the Camaro, that the vehicles simply must've been going quite fast. You state you were unable to even identify the vehicle as a Camaro upon coming up to the accident scene.

 

But, have you taken into account that a 1973 Camaro really doesn't have significant crash protection areas? The car isn't built like cars of today, and it's going to crumple a lot faster and a lot worse than a modern car. Yes, the Camaro was destroyed, but even if it had been hit by two (relatively large) cars at just a touch above the speed limit, 50mph, it would've been completely hammered. This is a 35-year-old car, mind you, which was impacted by not one but two vehicles coming directly towards it.

 

As for the driver, who you captured the camera phone picture of thrown from the accident, I can say the same things: he's an older man who is, thus, presumably relatively light himself, unbuckled and inside a 35-year-old car with no crash protection areas. My contention is that for you, a simple passerby, it would be almost impossible to tell the difference between the two cars impacting the Camaro at a legal speed (50mph) and the estimated speed (70mph).

JA jestem błazen zabawny ale który jest cały

 

WTF is up with you suddenly writing in another language? Is that in the hope that you will win the point as we will be unable to respond?

 

 

Just wondering, but was Bluemax a soldier or something? (I keep reading about how he "risks his life" for us?).

 

Also, Allan-Lambo, you mentioned about a "race license" in a previous thread, in order to race at a race track, does one need a race license? Or do you just show up to the track and race...?

Yes, you need to license such PASA or NAsa to go out during their sanctioned events here in AZ. You need to drive with instructors and they will allow you to get a license.

JA jestem błazen zabawny ale który jest cały

Speak English fucktard.

juicee63, you have made one very unreasonable assumption which you think completely vindicates Bluemax but actually is probably not factual.

 

You have presumed that, because the Mercedes was only going ~70mph according to reports after 1,200 feet of travel, he was clearly not under full acceleration and thus was probably not racing the Mustang.

 

A Mercedes E63 runs the quarter mile, which is 1,320 feet, in about 12.2 seconds at about 115mph. A 2005-_ Ford Mustang GT dues it at about 13.5 seconds at about 105mph. So, for 120 less feet, presume about 105mph for the Mercedes and 95mph for the Mustang. Of course, neither speed is ~70mph - but here's where you make your mistake.

 

If a Camaro pulls out in front of you at about 1,100 feet, what do you do? If you're a Mustang and a Mercedes and you're street racing, you slam on the brakes. Suddenly 85mph in a Mustang and 90mph in a Mercedes quickly becomes... 70mph. And then the impact.

 

Allan, you too have made a presumption that you have used to pass judgement perhaps too quickly on Bluemax.

 

You have presumed that, based on what you saw of both the driver of the Camaro and the mangled wreck of the Camaro, that the vehicles simply must've been going quite fast. You state you were unable to even identify the vehicle as a Camaro upon coming up to the accident scene.

 

But, have you taken into account that a 1973 Camaro really doesn't have significant crash protection areas? The car isn't built like cars of today, and it's going to crumple a lot faster and a lot worse than a modern car. Yes, the Camaro was destroyed, but even if it had been hit by two (relatively large) cars at just a touch above the speed limit, 50mph, it would've been completely hammered. This is a 35-year-old car, mind you, which was impacted by not one but two vehicles coming directly towards it.

 

As for the driver, who you captured the camera phone picture of thrown from the accident, I can say the same things: he's an older man who is, thus, presumably relatively light himself, unbuckled and inside a 35-year-old car with no crash protection areas. My contention is that for you, a simple passerby, it would be almost impossible to tell the difference between the two cars impacting the Camaro at a legal speed (50mph) and the estimated speed (70mph).

 

 

Yes, cars of that era didnt have all the safety features we have today, but they did have one thing, they were built like TANKS.

LOL, upuntil not too long ago you idiots were researching the completely wrong intersection, and now you are an expert on Scottsdale Rd?

 

How about this, Just a few weeks ago, there was a motorcyclist killed on this same road, maybe 2 blocks up, also turning in to see his family. This was heavily publisized on all the forums, and Im sure Bluemax heard about it. Everytime I drive by that corner I think about what happened and even drive slower. What was Bluemax thinking? This ones for you as he floored it next to a POS Mustang?

 

Topcarbon lives 2 minutes from the accident, let him explain to you the amount of traffic on that road.

 

Hey Speeding is stupid in traffic, he definately made a mistake , he knows it, he wishes he was dead what more would you like him to say?

 

You guys thinking he raced a 210 hp mustang in a 514 hp benz and they were side by side is idiotic

 

You guys thinking he raced a 210 hp mustang in a 514 hp benz and they were side by side is idiotic

The Mustang is clearly a GT - you can see the stock chrome wheels in the images from the crash scene. As posted above, the times are relatively close, and they get closer if the Mustang was modified. All accounts say the Mercedes hit the Camaro first.

 

Yes, cars of that era didnt have all the safety features we have today, but they did have one thing, they were built like TANKS.

 

That's just a generalization, mostly applied to large sedans of the 1960s and 1970s, not muscle-ish cars like the second-generation Camaro. It may have been made of steel and iron rather than plastic and carbon fiber, but it's 35-year-old steel and iron, and a hit to that from a legal 50mph or a "reckless" 70mph isn't going to look very different to a passerby.

Just some food for thought, I am no expert on cars of thirty-five years ago, however, I did see a crash video of a car on a TV show about car safety some years ago, I think it was from the 1950s, maybe sooner, but in it they crashed the car head-on into a pole and the pole literally tore the car in half. It just tore right through the car.

 

A lot of those older cars, if you bumped into them, they were like a tank.

 

However, if you smashed them into something really hard, they'd snap in half.

 

Modern cars have a structure to them that allows you to smash them into say a pole head-on and the car will bounce back. The airbags deploy inside to cushion the passengers.

 

These modern types of cars, if you bump into them, they have the crumple zones which absorb the impact but also thus cause damage to the car really easily.

 

However, for a high-speed crash, the skeleton of the car itself should hold it together.

 

I don't know when they started "toughening up" cars so-to-speak but it is possible that if this old man's car was of the old design, then it could have torn in half a lot more easily.

 

 

juicee63, you have made one very unreasonable assumption which you think completely vindicates Bluemax but actually is probably not factual.

 

You have presumed that, because the Mercedes was only going ~70mph according to reports after 1,200 feet of travel, he was clearly not under full acceleration and thus was probably not racing the Mustang.

 

A Mercedes E63 runs the quarter mile, which is 1,320 feet, in about 12.2 seconds at about 115mph. A 2005-_ Ford Mustang GT dues it at about 13.5 seconds at about 105mph. So, for 120 less feet, presume about 105mph for the Mercedes and 95mph for the Mustang. Of course, neither speed is ~70mph - but here's where you make your mistake.

 

If a Camaro pulls out in front of you at about 1,100 feet, what do you do? If you're a Mustang and a Mercedes and you're street racing, you slam on the brakes. Suddenly 85mph in a Mustang and 90mph in a Mercedes quickly becomes... 70mph. And then the impact.

 

Allan, you too have made a presumption that you have used to pass judgement perhaps too quickly on Bluemax.

 

You have presumed that, based on what you saw of both the driver of the Camaro and the mangled wreck of the Camaro, that the vehicles simply must've been going quite fast. You state you were unable to even identify the vehicle as a Camaro upon coming up to the accident scene.

 

But, have you taken into account that a 1973 Camaro really doesn't have significant crash protection areas? The car isn't built like cars of today, and it's going to crumple a lot faster and a lot worse than a modern car. Yes, the Camaro was destroyed, but even if it had been hit by two (relatively large) cars at just a touch above the speed limit, 50mph, it would've been completely hammered. This is a 35-year-old car, mind you, which was impacted by not one but two vehicles coming directly towards it.

 

As for the driver, who you captured the camera phone picture of thrown from the accident, I can say the same things: he's an older man who is, thus, presumably relatively light himself, unbuckled and inside a 35-year-old car with no crash protection areas. My contention is that for you, a simple passerby, it would be almost impossible to tell the difference between the two cars impacting the Camaro at a legal speed (50mph) and the estimated speed (70mph).

 

Great post,

 

The Police estimate speeds up to 70 never do they claim higher.

 

My assumption is that if the two were racing Robert and his car would have taken the speed to where you said 115 ish maybe more since it is more than 1/4 mile between lights. He hits perhaps a top speed of 70 and the data was recorded 5 seconds prior to impact. It will be easy to prove or disprove once the data is available. How can you be so sure it was a Mustang GT, it very well could have been a V6 with 210 hp ?

 

Ok I see you have further proof of a GT, convertable with a passenger added weight.

 

let me dive into this as I am an expert on 63 splits

You have presumed that, because the Mercedes was only going ~70mph according to reports after 1,200 feet of travel, he was clearly not under full acceleration and thus was probably not racing the Mustang...............

 

 

Colo, you are assuming they were racing from a dead stop from the previous stoplight. This is unknown and IMO unlikely.

 

I used the 1,200ft reference (the distance from the previous light) to point out that even if they were from a dead stop, they could get going 70mph easily.

 

 

 

 

But, have you taken into account that a 1973 Camaro really doesn't have significant crash protection areas? The car isn't built like cars of today, and it's going to crumple a lot faster and a lot worse than a modern car.

 

Actually the opposite. Modern cars are built with crumple zones to absorb energy from the impact, older cars were built under the false idea that stiffness (ie: not crumpling under impact) was going to make them safer.

 

I'd say the camaro was obliterated because

1. It was broadsided

2. It was hit twice

My assumption is that if the two were racing Robert and his car would have taken the speed to where you said 115 ish maybe more since it is more than 1/4 mile between lights. He hits perhaps a top speed of 70 and the data was recorded 5 seconds prior to impact. It will be easy to prove or disprove once the data is available.

 

In all honesty, I hope you're correct in that

 

a) he wasn't drag racing.

b) he wasn't going over 70mph.

 

Furthemore, in all honesty, I hope that there is a data recorder inside one or both vehicles, and I hope it vindicates both drivers (as much as is possible, anyway). I'm sure we'd all rather this conclude with the investigators finding out that the vehicles weren't racing or excessively speeding, either -- even cynical, Mercedes-hating Allan.

 

However, my own personal opinion is that we're going to find that these two vehicles were either racing or excessively speeding, and Bluemax is going to end up plea bargaining to a serious offense. juicee63, your loyalty to and defense of your friend is admirable, but between his posts on mbworld and the witness statements, it really looks like the only possible outcomes of this event for Bluemax are varying degrees of bad ones.

 

Once again, I really hope I'm wrong. But inductive reasoning says I'm probably not.

 

How can you be so sure it was a Mustang GT, it very well could have been a V6 with 210 hp ?

 

If you look at this photo of the overturned Mustang you can see that it clearly has twin exhausts, which are not available on the six-cylinder Mustang, and are standard on V8 models. There's no question that the Mustang involved was the 320-horsepower Mustang GT.

 

I used the 1,200ft reference (the distance from the previous light) to point out that even if they were from a dead stop, they could get going 70mph easily.

 

Yes, I was assuming they were racing from a dead stop because juicee63 had mentioned that he thought from a dead stop, the vehicles would be going faster than 70mph at the point of impact. I think that any logical person would agree that from speeds above a dead stop, the vehicles could have been going faster than 70mph.

 

My point was that regardless of the potential speeds of the vehicles, we need to take into account the fact that they probably rapidly decelerated as soon as they saw the Camaro turn in front of them, which would account for the significantly reduced speed being mentioned in the news reports.

Why can't I? Cos I didn't know how it worked and it's use? Please....

 

Stop trying to compare yourself with me, you can't even make sense on a forum.

 

WHat you bragging about how many accounts you got, next thing you#ll e telling me your dad is bigger than mine

 

He was racing, you know it I know it we all know it.

 

Yes I have sped before I am man enough to admit when I do something wrong....can you say the same?

 

But I haven't taken anyones life and in the process ruined my own families....

 

 

Ok sorry I offended you or whatever I did

Good 4 you man,

 

lets hope you never do have to experience a tragedy like this. Lets pray that when and if you do ever make a mistake you have someone like me to support you and help you through the bad times. A friend in theese times is a friend for life. Your just like many people when the chips are down you turn your cheek like a bitch and run, when times are good you wanna be in the mix, you want the good but cannot deal nor help in the bad. Hell you cannot even entertain a fuckn possibility that he may not have been racing?

 

There is no possibility that this dipshit was not racing. At all.

 

Juicee, I have no problem with you aside from your laughable all-singing-all-dancing-CLS-beats-everything-and-is-a-really-great-track-car posts, but you do need to take a step back here. You may not like Allan, you may not like anyone here. But the only "idiocy" (your word) being displayed is on your ridiculous defense of this clown.

 

Call a spade a spade. It is what it is.

 

Your boy was trying to teach a Mustang driver how incredibly amazing the uber-sports-formula-one-veyron-killer your MB family cars are, and he's going to get between five and seven years in a state-run facility for his efforts. Along with a multi-million dollar civil suit by the family of the victim.

 

It's a shame, but it's a fantastic lesson for the rest of these MB jockeys who think they're driving an exotic car. Even the POS asshats don't have chips on their shoulders as big as you MBWorld nutcases, I'm shocked by the content of the multiple threads about this subject over there.

 

Grow up.

oops

There is no possibility that this dipshit was not racing. At all.

 

Juicee, I have no problem with you aside from your laughable all-singing-all-dancing-CLS-beats-everything-and-is-a-really-great-track-car posts, but you do need to take a step back here. You may not like Allan, you may not like anyone here. But the only "idiocy" (your word) being displayed is on your ridiculous defense of this clown.

 

Call a spade a spade. It is what it is.

 

Your boy was trying to teach a Mustang driver how incredibly amazing the uber-sports-formula-one-veyron-killer your MB family cars are, and he's going to get between five and seven years in a state-run facility for his efforts. Along with a multi-million dollar civil suit by the family of the victim.

 

It's a shame, but it's a fantastic lesson for the rest of these MB jockeys who think they're driving an exotic car. Even the POS asshats don't have chips on their shoulders as big as you MBWorld nutcases, I'm shocked by the content of the multiple threads about this subject over there.

 

Grow up.

 

Are you a resident of the USA? Rob is innocent and is deserving of due process. Where you in Robs car? You are so sure? Where you in the Mustang? I wish to God we were talking bout my CLS right now it would be heaven sent

You guys got it all wrong, there was no racing at all. The drivers of the mustang and the MB were just trying to avoid the two guys walking across the street with the big piece of plate glass...