The Benz Driver who killed the guy in Scottsdale

My best friend was in an accident 6 years ago, where her car were t-boned by another car. She was in the passenger seat, and the car hit her dead on doing 45 mph, they where doing about 30 mph the other way (it was snow, her mother lost control, and the slided over in the other lane). She broke her hip severly, and suffered several other injuries to her head and legs. Her mother in the driverseat broke her arm, and her brother in the back just got some bruises and cuts. And they drove a POS Huyindai Accent which crumbles like a paper, yet the car was "only" smashed in on the side.

 

The camaro here was shattered in to pieces, spread all over the road, and the driver was thrown what, 100's of feet from the wreck? I know weird things happen when accidents like this occur, and that two cars hit the camaro, not one. But don't tell me the Benz and Mustang were going under 70mph.

 

Ive seen cars hit by TRAINS that are in better shape than that thing was....

Our paths already crossed,

 

you dont know me, but you lash out with hate, why? I trust my friends, and stand behind them in times of trouble. A person that defends my Country is certainly worthy of due process.

 

 

Absolutely. Hes worthy of due process, which will happen in a courtroom independent of L-power or MBworld (although, I could definitely see MBworld getting dragged into this). He is entitled to an attorney. A competent defense, and an unbiased jury.

 

HERE, away from the courtroom, we're allowed to use logic, and experience to determine whether the facts as we know them, make it more or less likely that hes guilty of what hes been charged with, and I think its safe to say, if we represent the ultimate jury of his peers, he's fucked.

 

I trust my friends until they tell me something that cant possibly be true. Then I don't trust them anymore. I stand by my friends, but not if what they have done is unworthy of my support. I would show my support for his innocent family right now, and I would help him get through the process as best as I could, but I wouldn't compromise my integrity to do so, and turning a blind eye to the overwhelming evidence because hes your friend compromises whatever integrity you have.

 

I know what he does for a living, and I respect that. That does not however cause me to suspend my contempt for his repeated stupidity behind the wheel.

Our paths already crossed,

 

you dont know me, but you lash out with hate, why? I trust my friends, and stand behind them in times of trouble. A person that defends my Country is certainly worthy of due process.

 

Hate? No hate.....I am revolted by you, period. Instead of trying to show some decorum. You are spouting off some bullshit about how people in glass houses should throw stones....etc

 

Then there is all this "thank God for the black box" Rhetoric.....

 

Instead of trying to divert attention, answer my first questiontell us ALL how you the genius that you are have worked out mathematically that your buddy was NOT speeding.

Hate? No hate.....I am revolted by you, period. Instead of trying to show some decorum. You are spouting off some bullshit about how people in glass houses should throw stones....etc

 

Then there is all this "thank God for the black box" Rhetoric.....

 

Instead of trying to divert attention, answer my first questiontell us ALL how you the genius that you are have worked out mathematically that your buddy was NOT speeding.

 

 

r*18 (x-6) / 32 = NOT SPEEDING

a2+b2

r*18 (x-6) / 32 = NOT SPEEDING

a2+b2

I came up with a different answer.

I came up with a different answer.

 

 

Show your work!

Absolutely. Hes worthy of due process, which will happen in a courtroom independent of L-power or MBworld (although, I could definitely see MBworld getting dragged into this). He is entitled to an attorney. A competent defense, and an unbiased jury.

 

HERE, away from the courtroom, we're allowed to use logic, and experience to determine whether the facts as we know them, make it more or less likely that hes guilty of what hes been charged with, and I think its safe to say, if we represent the ultimate jury of his peers, he's fucked.

 

I trust my friends until they tell me something that cant possibly be true. Then I don't trust them anymore. I stand by my friends, but not if what they have done is unworthy of my support. I would show my support for his innocent family right now, and I would help him get through the process as best as I could, but I wouldn't compromise my integrity to do so, and turning a blind eye to the overwhelming evidence because hes your friend compromises whatever integrity you have.

 

I know what he does for a living, and I respect that. That does not however cause me to suspend my contempt for his repeated stupidity behind the wheel.

 

 

Yes if you represent his peers he is ******.

 

You are basing your belief on the initial story I presume?

 

The data from the Mercedes is much more useful because the car remains intact. The Camaro was impacted 2x and was barely moving when it was struck. It also exploded . The Mercedes was 75 ft from the impact zone this is where it rests. The data logger recorded 5 second prior to the crash, it will show everything, so I await this with great anticipation as I believe the super comp driver was well aware of his speed the color of the light and what he saw just prior to impact. He will likely still face serious charges as well as living on with the heavy heart he carries. I for one know him and I know he is hurting badly and will support him until the information is widely disseminated

Show your work!

ROFLMAO! hearing this during the winter brake brings me to tears

Hate? No hate.....I am revolted by you, period. Instead of trying to show some decorum. You are spouting off some bullshit about how people in glass houses should throw stones....etc

 

Then there is all this "thank God for the black box" Rhetoric.....

 

Instead of trying to divert attention, answer my first questiontell us ALL how you the genius that you are have worked out mathematically that your buddy was NOT speeding.

 

 

I am grateful for the data because it will reveal the speed of the crash?

I never claimed he was not speeding, he just was not street racing. Heres the formula for speed estimation if you really care

 

 

Conservation of Momentum:

Linear momentum is the product of mass and velocity. By applying the law of conservation of linear momentum, we can obtain a vector equation that will serve as a means of determining unknown speeds for two vehicles in a collision. The total momentum before the collision of the vehicles is equal to the total momentum after the collision. The corresponding vector equation is

 

,

 

where M1 and M2 represent the masses of car 1 and car 2, respectively, with v1 and v2 the corresponding velocities before impact and v3 and v4 the velocities after the collision.

 

We know that , where M denotes mass, W denotes weight, and g denotes gravity (32 feet per second per second).

 

So, the equation above can be written as:

 

,

 

where W1 and W2 are the respective weights of the two vehicles involved. The resultant vector (figure 1) obtained by adding , can be broken down into the horizontal and vertical components , and ___________________________, respectively, where and represent the directions of vectors v3 and v4. By using the formula for the conservation of linear momentum and taking the magnitudes of vertical and horizontal components, we obtain

 

,

and

,

with and being the directions for vectors v1 and v2.

 

 

 

Police officers make a scale drawing of the accident scene and measure skid marks in accidents where loss of life occurs or where substantial damage occurs. An accident is illustrated in figure 2. Let the x-axis be the path of approach to impact of car 1. We locate the center of mass of each car as the point of intersection of the lines joining each front tire to its diagonally opposite rear tire. For each car, the vector from center of mass at impact to the center of mass at final resting position is drawn and measured to determine the distance and angle.

 

 

 

In figure 4, we have these vectors, , and positioned at the origin and illustrating the paths of the two vehicles after impact. These vectors are 25.5 feet and 16.75 feet, respectively. If we take the drag factor at the time of impact to be f = 0.83, then

magnitude of v3 = _____________ and

magnitude of v4 = _____________ .

 

We note that the vectors v1, v2, v3, and v4 have directions, measured from the positive x-axis, of 180, 93, 148, and 154, respectively. Letting W1 and W2 be 4,220 and 3,875 pounds, respectively, and using the previous values for the magnitudes of vectors v3 and v4, substitute into

 

.

 

We obtain ,

so the magnitude of vector v2 = ___________________.

 

Then substitute this value into

 

to obtain the magnitude of vector v1 = ___________________.

These are the speeds right before impact. By substituting into the Combined-Speed formula,

 

,

(where Sf is the final speed and S0 is the initial speed) we get the result that our drivers were travelling at 48 mph and 37 mph the split second before they slammed on their brakes.

 

 

If he was not racing, why is he and another person charged with 2nd degree murder? This is all just one big misunderstanding?

If he was not racing, why is he and another person charged with 2nd degree murder? This is all just one big misunderstanding?

 

 

Because a man died and he was likely speeding when the accident happened. The racing story was retracted maybe for legal reason. His speed was estimated up to 70 mph by police

I wont press reply to your reply as I don't want to clog up this thread, but in other words you could NOT have worked out that he was NOT speeding as you are in no way privy to all those facts required to complete that calculation are you Juice!

 

Note I asked for your workings out not the formula, any idiot could scroll the net for that information.

 

You CANNOT even know that he was NOT racing as YOU WERE NOT THERE!!!!

 

So I ask myself how can you KNOW Bluemax was NOT racing? How....only by speaking to him

 

Taking that to be the case, then you are making statements on the word of someone who has just killed someone, who is likely to be scared for his future and his families. Are you taking this into account when you are judging if you are being told the truth? That is assuming you have ANY integrity and you are not just making shit up!

 

 

 

Don't street race on a public street that is common sense he needs to learn everytime you do something stupid there is a consequence.

Yes if you represent his peers he is ******.

 

You are basing your belief on the initial story I presume?

 

The data from the Mercedes is much more useful because the car remains intact. The Camaro was impacted 2x and was barely moving when it was struck. It also exploded . The Mercedes was 75 ft from the impact zone this is where it rests. The data logger recorded 5 second prior to the crash, it will show everything, so I await this with great anticipation as I believe the super comp driver was well aware of his speed the color of the light and what he saw just prior to impact. He will likely still face serious charges as well as living on with the heavy heart he carries. I for one know him and I know he is hurting badly and will support him until the information is widely disseminated

 

 

I base my opinion on three facts.

 

One- My review of the crash photos and my experience with other crash photos. (FWIW my wife is also an attorney and defends Vehicle Defect suits, especially rollovers- And Ive seen LOTS of such photos, and read LOTS of FAI reconstruction reports.) To me those pictures speak a thousand words- excessive speed was involved in the crash. The two cars were traveling very closely to each other. Close enough that NEITHER could avoid the accident.

 

Two. The news article that quotes witnesses as saying the cars were traveling at high speeds at the time of the crash.

 

Three. His previously displayed tendency to engage in speed contests on public roads.

 

From those three pieces of information, I CAN make an INTELLIGENT INFERENCE of WHAT happened.

 

Two cars were traveling at a high rate of speed down a suburban street next to each other. Nothing would indicate that the occupants of the two vehicles knew each other. There are only a handful of explanations of why TWO cars would be traveling THAT FAST in the same direction, presumably within feet of each other on a street where that speed is so inappropriate. Since neither were being chased by a gun wielding road raging alcoholic, and neither had a full term pregnant woman in the car and they were on the way to a hospital to deliver, logic says that the reason they were BOTH speeding, next to each other, in the same direction was because they were racing with each other (or one was speeding, and the other was catching up to race... Either way- its an irrelevant semantic distinction that doesnt matter to the law...). One of them has a known history of doing this. They both crashed into a third car who turned in front of them despite the fact they were in large, easily seen vehicles, indicating they were traveling FASTER than he could foresee. That driver was ejected by the force of the impact dozens of yards down the roadway killing him.

 

Other possible scenarios dont hold up: For Example: The drivers WERENT speeding. The older driver made an unsafe turn right in front of them...- Nope... The car was too mangled for that... They DEFINITELY were HAULING ASS. At 45 the car MAYBE flips over... It doesnt fall apart at the seems like that.

 

They werent "Racing" They were just coincidentally driving too fast for the road conditions next to each other- Who cares? They were both going too damned fast and killed somebody.... I dont need to prove "racing" to prove recklessness. Plus it just doesnt pass the laugh test... Two high performance cars just happen to be going nearly twice the speed limit NEAR each other? Wont fly, not given his posts on MBworld. Thats the danger of posting that crap.... Once you repeatedly talk about racing, if you wreck, those words will be used to hang you.

Yes... Absolutely... If I was representing the dead persons family, I would DEFINITELY, WITHOUT QUESTION name MBWorld in my wrongful death lawsuit. I wouldn't think twice about it... Im not sure its an easy case, but its on I would make, and I would leave it in the hands of a jury.

 

If I was the Maricopa County DA, I would look into bringing criminal conspiracy charges against MBworld.... Thats a little tougher, but no reason not to throw the ball down field and see who jumps.

 

There is a patern here... Some may remember a story on MBworld a few months ago where some dipshit bragged that the car he was racing CRASHED and he took off.... I was pretty vocal then about how irresponsible the site was to keep allowing people to post such stuff....

 

And to use the HIGHLY DISTASTEFUL "Kill Stories" title, is sickening.

 

How the managers of MBworld can live with themselves after this is beyond me...

 

All true.

 

I wont press reply to your reply as I don't want to clog up this thread, but in other words you could NOT have worked out that he was NOT speeding as you are in no way privy to all those facts required to complete that calculation are you Juice!

 

Note I asked for your workings out not the formula, any idiot could scroll the net for that information.

 

You CANNOT even know that he was NOT racing as YOU WERE NOT THERE!!!!

 

So I ask myself how can you KNOW Bluemax was NOT racing? How....only by speaking to him

 

Taking that to be the case, then you are making statements on the word of someone who has just killed someone, who is likely to be scared for his future and his families. Are you taking this into account when you are judging if you are being told the truth? That is assuming you have ANY integrity and you are not just making shit up!

 

I actually did a calculation and it was based on what I lnked you to.

 

I was not there but there a numerous reasons I do not believe the "street race" story the media attempted to present.

 

I care deeply about Robert and his family, sorry I cannot change that. He would certainly trade places with Mr. Holman if he could. He risked his life for mine, he risks his life for many of you , sadly this has become some sick battle of ego rather than reflection of tragedy and loss. Do you have absolute proof he was "street racing" , were you there miyagi? Oh you know he was racing because????

 

I actually did a calculation and it was based on what I lnked you to.

 

I was not there but there a numerous reasons I do not believe the "street race" story the media attempted to present.

 

I care deeply about Robert and his family, sorry I cannot change that. He would certainly trade places with Mr. Holman if he could. He risked his life for mine, he risks his life for many of you , sadly this has become some sick battle of ego rather than reflection of tragedy and loss. Do you have absolute proof he was "street racing" , were you there miyagi? Oh you know he was racing because????

 

Listen you could NOT I repeat could NOT have done any calculations. If you did post them, there is absolutely NO WAY you can sit in front of your computer and work out the speeds those cars were travelling at. Otherwise there would be no need for police investigators to visit the scence of the crime. You must think I am really stupid to believe that!!!

 

This thread was starting to warn Lpower members to be careful and think about our actions on the road and how these might affect others....it is no battling of any egos that I can see. Just a few of us trying to get you to respect the man who died by not effortly talking crap.

 

I am neither a judge or on a jury however I am able to view the evidence that Allan has detailed and read the news reports plus seen you and your buddies threads so my "informed" judgement would be that they were racing and you know this to be the case too, but don't have the dignity to admit it.

 

Everything points to this being the case......I'm done with you anyway.

 

Judging from how your portray yourself on this board most of the time you are not the type of person I would talk to, let alone associate with and your replies in this thread reinforces that. Frankly I'm insulted that I even share Lpower with you, to think if it were you in an accident then we may be may be tarred with your dirty habits!!

 

Trust Allan to be nice on the one day you need him to be his usual short tempered self! Whats got into you man?!

 

I'm with Romandad and vote to ban this inadequate fool.....

 

 

 

 

 

I base my opinion on three facts.

 

One- My review of the crash photos and my experience with other crash photos. (FWIW my wife is also an attorney and defends Vehicle Defect suits, especially rollovers- And Ive seen LOTS of such photos, and read LOTS of FAI reconstruction reports.) To me those pictures speak a thousand words- excessive speed was involved in the crash. The two cars were traveling very closely to each other. Close enough that NEITHER could avoid the accident.

 

Two. The news article that quotes witnesses as saying the cars were traveling at high speeds at the time of the crash.

 

Three. His previously displayed tendency to engage in speed contests on public roads.

 

From those three pieces of information, I CAN make an INTELLIGENT INFERENCE of WHAT happened.

 

Two cars were traveling at a high rate of speed down a suburban street next to each other. Nothing would indicate that the occupants of the two vehicles knew each other. There are only a handful of explanations of why TWO cars would be traveling THAT FAST in the same direction, presumably within feet of each other on a street where that speed is so inappropriate. Since neither were being chased by a gun wielding road raging alcoholic, and neither had a full term pregnant woman in the car and they were on the way to a hospital to deliver, logic says that the reason they were BOTH speeding, next to each other, in the same direction was because they were racing with each other (or one was speeding, and the other was catching up to race... Either way- its an irrelevant semantic distinction that doesnt matter to the law...). One of them has a known history of doing this. They both crashed into a third car who turned in front of them despite the fact they were in large, easily seen vehicles, indicating they were traveling FASTER than he could foresee. That driver was ejected by the force of the impact dozens of yards down the roadway killing him.

 

Other possible scenarios dont hold up: For Example: The drivers WERENT speeding. The older driver made an unsafe turn right in front of them...- Nope... The car was too mangled for that... They DEFINITELY were HAULING ASS. At 45 the car MAYBE flips over... It doesnt fall apart at the seems like that.

 

They werent "Racing" They were just coincidentally driving too fast for the road conditions next to each other- Who cares? They were both going too damned fast and killed somebody.... I dont need to prove "racing" to prove recklessness. Plus it just doesnt pass the laugh test... Two high performance cars just happen to be going nearly twice the speed limit NEAR each other? Wont fly, not given his posts on MBworld. Thats the danger of posting that crap.... Once you repeatedly talk about racing, if you wreck, those words will be used to hang you.

 

 

If it his his posting history he will walk, he mostly talks about drag racing and rarely mentions a street race. The one occurance was because I pointed him to this forum. He was a speeder but not a street racer, there is no history of this. His drag racing is not equivalent to "street racing"

 

Most of his villification is here and it is based on one thread , pure fantasy no race ever materialized. He never posted once in the "kill section" at mbworld, not even once. He is a super comp race car driver. He has 20 years of experience on the drag strip, this is where his bravado rang out not on Scottsdale streets. Robert would never challenge a Mustang Convertable? in a race a mustang convert would be destroyed by a huge margin an e63 0-60 in 4 seconds this mustang was a v6 with 210 hp 0-60 would have taken 2-3 seconds longer so how on earth could he be next to a WOT E63? Same weight 300hp difference even if it was a GT there is a 200hp difference. A race from light to light would have had the E63 in excess of 150 mph. This is not a car Rob would ever race especially in broad day light on a busy street .. NO WAY!

 

If you examined the crash video and Allans account of the Mercedes you would realize it held up well, it caught fire but otherwise crumple zone remained in tact and it barely reached the radiator. would you change your mind in the slightest had the driver of the Camaro turned on a RED arrow?

Listen you could NOT I repeat could NOT have done any calculations. If you did post them, there is absolutely NO WAY you can sit in front of your computer and work out the speeds those cars were travelling at. Otherwise there would be no need for police investigators to visit the scence of the crime. You must think I am really stupid to believe that!!!

 

This thread was starting to warn Lpower members to be careful and think about our actions on the road and how these might affect others....it is no battling of any egos that I can see. Just a few of us trying to get you to respect the man who died by not effortly talking crap.

 

I am neither a judge or on a jury however I am able to view the evidence that Allan has detailed and read the news reports plus seen you and your buddies threads so my "informed" judgement would be that they were racing and you know this to be the case too, but don't have the dignity to admit it.

 

Everything points to this being the case......I'm done with you anyway.

 

Judging from how your portray yourself on this board most of the time you are not the type of person I would talk to, let alone associate with and your replies in this thread reinforces that. Frankly I'm insulted that I even share Lpower with you, to think if it were you in an accident then we may be may be tarred with your dirty habits!!

 

Trust Allan to be nice on the one day you need him to be his usual short tempered self! Whats got into you man?!

 

I'm with Romandad and vote to ban this inadequate fool.....

 

I disagree with you, sorry man. I do not believe they were engaged in a race and you do, move on. You cannot force me to change my opinion, I obviously will not change yours. Guess you do not want theese extra game consoles?

 

I disagree with you, sorry man. I do not believe they were engaged in a race and you do, move on. You cannot force me to change my opinion, I obviously will not change yours. Guess you do not want theese extra game consoles?

 

LMAO....I would never shake your morally bankrupt hand let alone conduct business with you.

 

Now move along.....I'm sure you have some more "kill" stories to circulate....

LMAO....I would never shake your morally bankrupt hand let alone conduct business with you.

 

Now move along.....I'm sure you have some more "kill" stories to circulate....

 

What does it matter whether you race in rush hour traffic or a parking lot at 2 a.m? I've seen people killed with only 2 cars racing. If you have street raced in the past, how can you criticize this guy? And even those who dont street race, i'm sure I can find a post on here of you promoting street racing. My condolences go out to the victims.

If it his his posting history he will walk, he mostly talks about drag racing and rarely mentions a street race. The one occurance was because I pointed him to this forum. He was a speeder but not a street racer, there is no history of this. His drag racing is not equivalent to "street racing"

 

Most of his villification is here and it is based on one thread , pure fantasy no race ever materialized. He never posted once in the "kill section" at mbworld, not even once. He is a super comp race car driver. He has 20 years of experience on the drag strip, this is where his bravado rang out not on Scottsdale streets. Robert would never challenge a Mustang Convertable? in a race a mustang convert would be destroyed by a huge margin an e63 0-60 in 4 seconds this mustang was a v6 with 210 hp 0-60 would have taken 2-3 seconds longer so how on earth could he be next to a WOT E63? Same weight 300hp difference even if it was a GT there is a 200hp difference. A race from light to light would have had the E63 in excess of 150 mph. This is not a car Rob would ever race especially in broad day light on a busy street .. NO WAY!

 

If you examined the crash video and Allans account of the Mercedes you would realize it held up well, it caught fire but otherwise crumple zone remained in tact and it barely reached the radiator. would you change your mind in the slightest had the driver of the Camaro turned on a RED arrow?

 

Sorry, but I saw the entire accident seconds after it happened. The Camaro was ripped to SHREDS. When the accident happened I was less than a block away, I would of heard an explosion. I didnt hear any explosion, and all that was on fire was the road, and the MERCEDES with your BUDDY the nonspeeder stumbling around it. There were no flames whatsoever around any part of the Camaro. The camaro was disintegrated, pieces everywhere, no roof, no nothing, you couldnt even tell what it was, AT ALL. Two cars driving next to one another at EXACTLY the same speed which as of now is an indicated 20-30mph above the speed limit?

 

The fact remains, if the guy turned DIRECTLY in front of them, they would have had to of been traveling at a very high rate of speed to cause such carnage. 2nd, if the car didnt turn directly in fron tof them, they had to have been traveling at a VERY high rate of speed not have been able to scrub off enough speed not have caused the same carnage.

 

As for his not racing...HOW ABOUT THIS...... If it comes down to his character, we have a living WITNESS here, who can testify that your Angelic non racing friend, tried to engage him in an illegal street race at speeds over 100mph on a residential road. No matter what you say, And this I can gaurentee, that this persons testimony would give them immunity from any sort of charges which you may think could be brought upon this person, even though no such charges could ever be brought upon him. But his testimony, would weigh HEAVILY, along with Roberts WINK WINK reply in regards to the street race, and his own admittance in print to racing at speeds of over 150mph on public roads. You forget, everyone here could be an admitted street racer, non of us has ever killed anyone.

 

You must really be starving for friendship, to defend someone you hardly know and met over the internet as vehemently as you do. Maybe you are scared a search of the computer will link the two of you to kiddie porn. But if I were you, Id go plan your moms funeral, as in words, you killed her.

 

What does it matter whether you race in rush hour traffic or a parking lot at 2 a.m? I've seen people killed with only 2 cars racing. If you have street raced in the past, how can you criticize this guy? And even those who dont street race, i'm sure I can find a post on here of you promoting street racing. My condolences go out to the victims.

 

 

If you race at 2am then at least you are presumably trying to avoid traffic and risking your own life and the driver you are racing. In this instance a "innocent" third party was killed by what seems to have been two adult drivers racing.

 

IMO that is extremely irresponsible if you do not think so then you are entitled to YOU opinion. But for me the two examples stated are worlds apart.

 

As for the finding a post where I condone street racing, not sure if that was aimed at me. Be my guest, doubt you will find any.......

If you race at 2am then at least you are presumably trying to avoid traffic and risking your own life and the driver you are racing. In this instance a "innocent" third party was killed by what seems to have been two adult drivers racing.

 

IMO that is extremely irresponsible if you do not think so then you are entitled to YOU opinion. But for me the two examples stated are worlds apart.

 

As for the finding a post where I condone street racing, not sure if that was aimed at me. Be my guest, doubt you will find any.......

 

 

First off, I dont know you and am baffled to why you would think I directed my comments to you. Secondly, "presumably trying to avoid" is not a legal defense. Snorting heroin is bad whether your doing it in Time Square or Pluto.