R8 V10 vs. Lamborghini discussion

We have driven this thundering, all-aluminum, all-wheel-drive 518-horsepower Porsche-stalker with immense pleasure over the likewise immensely pleasurable seaside hills of southern Spain. Audi has been telling us that the R8 would become a glorious combination of German practicality and Italian exuberance, and this drive in the 2010 Audi R8 5.2 FSI Quattro shows us that the Bavarian company has delivered on this promise beyond our wildest expectations.

 

 

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drive...rticleId=141087

 

 

"One more anonymous source in the know tells us that Audi is not stopping at this already exceptional V10-powered R8, either. While the Audi R8 V12 TDI diesel concept car that we drove briefly last spring has now been officially killed off, Audi boffins are experimenting with an even faster supercar that will dare to go head-to-head with the Lamborghini Murciélago LP640."

Audi has been telling us that the R8 would become a glorious combination of German practicality and Italian exuberance,

 

How the fcuk can Audi make a claim like that?!

Probably because they make both of them

 

While this isn't much of a review, it sounds to make like Audi hit the nail on the head with the V10.

 

As for them creating another car that goes head to head with the LP640, I don't think there is much truth to that. At least at this point. If there is though, I have no doubt that they will do it well.

 

 

"Does it bother us one bit that this R8 with a V10 is just a longer and curvier Lamborghini Gallardo LP560-4? Oh, yeah, sure, that really bothers us. Are you nuts?"

 

 

Audi's performance claims are conservative. I put a vbox on the V10 test mule that I drove last year and got a 3.7 second 60mph time on my second try. The car is fast.

Motor Trend's first take

 

"More than that, the tractable powertrain and especially the AWD and friendly chassis mean it's a supercar you can truly enjoy in a wider range of road and weather conditions than almost any other. There might be a handful -- and it's a tiny handful -- of supercars that are, in ideal conditions, as good to drive as this one. But are they as good to drive as much of the time? Definitely not."

 

 

"One more anonymous source in the know tells us that Audi is not stopping at this already exceptional V10-powered R8, either. While the Audi R8 V12 TDI diesel concept car that we drove briefly last spring has now been officially killed off, Audi boffins are experimenting with an even faster supercar that will dare to go head-to-head with the Lamborghini Murciélago LP640."

 

 

That could be either incredible news, or horrible news. Incredible if Audi pours some real money into the project for a murcie replacement/big Audi. Horrible if they don't, however I highly doubt that.

Automobile mag's take:

 

This Audi probably would have never happened had Porsche gained control of the Volkswagen Group five years earlier. But now the Audi R8 5.2 is out, larger than life and even better than expected. True, the Gallardo is sharper. The SL63 AMG is wilder. And the 911 Turbo is all that in a more compact package. But in terms of total dynamic balance; anyone-can-do-it, A-to-B ground-covering ability; and that all-important blend of confidence, compliance, and comfort, the 5.2-liter V-10-powered R8 is the new leader of the pack.

 

Mako take note:

 

Tipping the scales at 3571 pounds with the six-speed manual, the new Audi is 132 pounds heavier than its V-8-powered brother, 77 pounds heavier than a 911 Turbo, and 50 pounds more than the latest Gallardo.

 

In fact, the 525-hp variant arrives not a day too soon. After all, R8 production has recently dropped from a peak of twenty-five cars per working day to a current low of only two units. In total, 7900 vehicles have been completed in the Neckarsulm, Germany, facility. The 5.2, which is due at German dealerships in May and in the United States sometime in the first half of 2010, should end the slump. But like every drug that works, it carries certain side effects. Porsche will soon feel them, as orders for upmarket 911s are bound to suffer. And you don't need a crystal ball to predict that the Lamborghini Gallardo will be even harder hit. Although the soon-to-be launched LP560-4 Spyder may provide a brief rebound during the upcoming summer season, the open-top R8 due at the Frankfurt show in September will soon make life difficult again for its sister brand.

 

The R8 5.2 epitomizes a new level of fluidity in motion, of input and feedback, of competence and control. This is a proactive sports car, not a permanent provocation to mind and body. It can do Munich to Malaga, Spain, in two days with the cruise control set at 75 mph and the driver totally at ease. But it can also storm from the seaside resort of Marbella to the mountain city of Ronda and back in just under forty minutes, a pace that is so illegal that the Spanish police would question their radar-gun readings.

 

How is that possible? Because this Audi establishes a new middle ground between breakneck fast and play-it-safe moderate. That middle ground is challenging but not to the extreme, ambitious but not overly so, eye-opening but not to the point where death stares back at you. Like no other mid-engine sports car I can think of, the Bavarian coupe with the Italian soul makes you a better, smoother, and more complete driver.

"And you don't need a crystal ball to predict that the Lamborghini Gallardo will be even harder hit"

 

Come on Bernard, you believe this crap?

"And you don't need a crystal ball to predict that the Lamborghini Gallardo will be even harder hit"

 

Come on Bernard, you believe this crap?

 

Slowpoke, I put 1500 miles on a R8 V10 test mule last year(in two weeks!). The car is as good as the reviewers say it is. Lamborghini Gallardo sales will be cannibalized. In fact, thats probably the main reason why Audi has limited R8 sales in the US. Out of 8000 cars produced, they have only shipped around 800 to the US, 10% of total output. Compare that to Lamborghini which ships 40% of their output to the US. Also, why is Audi delaying the US intro of the V10 by over a year? Clearly they are protecting the Lamborghini side of the biz.

Slowpoke, I put 1500 miles on a R8 V10 test mule last year(in two weeks!). The car is as good as the reviewers say it is. Lamborghini Gallardo sales will be cannibalized. In fact, thats probably the main reason why Audi has limited R8 sales in the US. Out of 8000 cars produced, they have only shipped around 800 to the US, 10% of total output. Compare that to Lamborghini which ships 40% of their output to the US. Also, why is Audi delaying the US intro of the V10 by over a year? Clearly they are protecting the Lamborghini side of the biz.

 

I don't agree.

 

The 997TT is just as good as a Gallardo LP560, if not better - but it's still not in the same league or attract the same type of buyers that a Lambo does. Audi is not even in the same league, not even the same friggin sport!

For me the R8 is in the same category as the GTR, the BMW M3 and maybe, just maybe the 997 Carrera S - a non premium wannabe BMW/Mercedes type of car that has to brand itself as a offspring of a Lamborghini to even create a little hype, if any at all..

 

Audi in Europe is a poor mans BMW - not a friggin Lamborghini contendor, not by miles and leaps! I don't care how good it is (which I trust you on with all respect!) - it is still not anywhere near a Ferrari, Lambo or even Porsche TT or GT models!

 

But I still love you!

I think this may be the best supercar out there today personally.

I don't agree.

 

The 997TT is just as good as a Gallardo LP560, if not better - but it's still not in the same league or attract the same type of buyers that a Lambo does. Audi is not even in the same league, not even the same friggin sport!

For me the R8 is in the same category as the GTR, the BMW M3 and maybe, just maybe the 997 Carrera S - a non premium wannabe BMW/Mercedes type of car that has to brand itself as a offspring of a Lamborghini to even create a little hype, if any at all..

 

Audi in Europe is a poor mans BMW - not a friggin Lamborghini contendor, not by miles and leaps! I don't care how good it is (which I trust you on with all respect!) - it is still not anywhere near a Ferrari, Lambo or even Porsche TT or GT models!

 

But I still love you!

 

My friend, pull your head out of that Swedish snowbank for a second and listen up; the R8 and the Gallardo are two sides of the same coin. Audi designed and built both cars on the SAME platform, one in their German plant, the other in their Italian plant. So yes, if you deduct the snob appeal factor, they are in the same league. To make you happy, lets just call the R8 the bastard brother of the LP560!

 

In the US, the R8 is much rarer than a G, several thousand Gs vs 700 R8s. When I tested the V10 mule, I was shocked at the attention the car was getting; as much/more than my G. Personally I like the styling of the Gallardo better, but the general public(read young pussy) was all over the R8.

 

If you read the R8 reviews, the common denominator is how well the car performs in every category. In this sense it is different from our Gallardos(pre LP560), which are rougher around the edges/true sports cars. I drove the shit out of that R8, back and forth to work, all over the state, fast/slow and never got bored/tired or worn out. As for comfort features, on a weekend Miami trip, in the middle of Alligator Alley, I received the best high speed BJ ever, something I would not recommend you try with your SL, as it doesn't have the required magnetic damping system.

R8=

I think this may be the best supercar out there today personally.

 

Too heavy for that distinction. It's nearly at the SLR's weight if you can believe it (wet, with gas) = 3,750lbs. Nearly 250lbs. heavier than a comparable LP560, and a ghastly 500lbs. heavier than an F430S.

 

It's clearly a great car, I'd consider it over say a 997TT, or definitely over a Vantage. But with slightly pre-owned LP560s on the market next year at a price point that's close the R8 V10's projected MSRP it would be a no-brainer in my mind as to which one I'd prefer.

 

And Vroom, if you think that car is more of a pussy magnet than G-car, you either live on another planet or your "girlfriends" need their eyes checked. Reminds me of Allan endlessly trying to convince us that the SLR would get more looks from women than an LP640...

The audi will never cannibalize sales from the Lambo. First and foremost when people spend money, they want the NAME. Audi or Lambo? Which would you rather have? Second... The lambo is far better looking, performing etc.

 

a good example of a similar situation is the Vw Pheaton (sp) and the Bentley Gt. Both are essentially the same car. The VW FLOPPED.

And Vroom, if you think that car is more of a pussy magnet than G-car, you either live on another planet or your "girlfriends" need their eyes checked. Reminds me of Allan endlessly trying to convince us that the SLR would get more looks from women than an LP640...

 

 

I stand by my words...

I don't agree.

 

The 997TT is just as good as a Gallardo LP560, if not better - but it's still not in the same league or attract the same type of buyers that a Lambo does. Audi is not even in the same league, not even the same friggin sport!

For me the R8 is in the same category as the GTR, the BMW M3 and maybe, just maybe the 997 Carrera S - a non premium wannabe BMW/Mercedes type of car that has to brand itself as a offspring of a Lamborghini to even create a little hype, if any at all..

 

Audi in Europe is a poor mans BMW - not a friggin Lamborghini contendor, not by miles and leaps! I don't care how good it is (which I trust you on with all respect!) - it is still not anywhere near a Ferrari, Lambo or even Porsche TT or GT models!

 

But I still love you!

 

You really just seem a bit bitter. A little hype, if any at all? You must be rather sheltered. I'd say they have spawned quite a big hype, and the car appears to be living up to it. As do sales and demand.

 

You're definition of league seems, well, bizarre.

 

As for Audi being a poor mans premium car, you must not be familiar with BMW's line-up, as the prices are pretty darn similar. Compare A4 to 3er, A5 to 5er, A8 to 7er, TT to Z, RS models to M's. I might go as far to say that comparable Audi models are even more expensive. Pair this with sales that are on a path to equal, if not surpass, the competition, I'd say Audi's brand is far from 'poor.' Mercedes does have some considerably more expensive cars out there, but we all agree that they are terribly overpriced and that is quickly reflected in the used market.

 

The V10 R8 seems like it will prove to be better than all prevoius Gallardos and most other exotics similarly priced. 997TT, GT3, F430, and the likes. Period. We'll have to see how it compares to the LP560, but I'm guessing they are nearly identical. There are some performance pros and cons associated with each, and I wouldn't be suprised is they offset each other. When it comes to overall dynamics and all around drivability, I'd say the R8 has the LP edged out. Then again, this is based purely on what I'm reading. I have driven the LP, but not the V10 R8.

 

Price really isn't a huge issue. Those who can afford $150-170K cars can also afford $250K cars and used $250K cars marked down to $160K. Those people are probably just weighing it in terms of the value they see in each, not Car A is better than Car B. I'd say the deciding factors between those who will buy a Gallardo or an R8 V10 are taste and brand snobbery. Some people just can't stomach saying, "it's an Audi." When it comes down to it, even if there are some minor differences in the mechanicals and creature comforts, these cars will serve the same purpose for most and in the very same manner.

You really just seem a bit bitter. A little hype, if any at all? You must be rather sheltered. I'd say they have spawned quite a big hype, and the car appears to be living up to it. As do sales and demand.

 

You're definition of league seems, well, bizarre.

 

As for Audi being a poor mans premium car, you must not be familiar with BMW's line-up, as the prices are pretty darn similar. Compare A4 to 3er, A5 to 5er, A8 to 7er, TT to Z, RS models to M's. I might go as far to say that comparable Audi models are even more expensive. Pair this with sales that are on a path to equal, if not surpass, the competition, I'd say Audi's brand is far from 'poor.' Mercedes does have some considerably more expensive cars out there, but we all agree that they are terribly overpriced and that is quickly reflected in the used market.

 

The V10 R8 seems like it will prove to be better than all prevoius Gallardos and most other exotics similarly priced. 997TT, GT3, F430, and the likes. Period. We'll have to see how it compares to the LP560, but I'm guessing they are nearly identical. There are some performance pros and cons associated with each, and I wouldn't be suprised is they offset each other. When it comes to overall dynamics and all around drivability, I'd say the R8 has the LP edged out. Then again, this is based purely on what I'm reading. I have driven the LP, but not the V10 R8.

 

In the end, I'd say the deciding factors between those who buy a Gallardo or an R8 are price and style. Oh, and brand snobbery. Some people just can't stomach saying, "it's an Audi."

Brand snobbery will certainly come into play... SUBSTANTIALLY

 

And i will agree with Slowpoke.. when people hear BMW, Mercedes or Audi... Audi is definitely the LEAST prestigious of the bunch. Thats why when Audi creates high priced luxury models.. they never sell well.

Brand snobbery will certainly come into play... SUBSTANTIALLY

 

And i will agree with Slowpoke.. when people hear BMW, Mercedes or Audi... Audi is definitely the LEAST prestigious of the bunch. Thats why when Audi creates high priced luxury models.. they never sell well.

 

I agree with that as well, but not to such an extreme.

 

But when it comes to the R8, I think you can throw that out the window. I'd place the R8 right next to all the other comparable exotics. It's certainly not an SLR, CGT, LP640, or Enzo, but I don't think that was Audi's aim in the first place.

 

The very fact that people argue about whether the R8 is in the same league as the Gallardo or F430 proves that it is.

The very fact that people argue about whether the R8 is in the same league as the Gallardo or F430 proves that it is.

Sorry, fact is some people WANT it to be in the same league, however it is not. 1991 Acura NSx owners argue their car is in the same league, as do POS owners, Viper owners... and just about anyone else. Fact remains, they arent, nor will they ever be...

Sorry, fact is some people WANT it to be in the same league, however it is not. 1991 Acura NSx owners argue their car is in the same league, as do POS owners, Viper owners... and just about anyone else. Fact remains, they arent, nor will they ever be...

 

 

 

Forgive the lack of flow in this post. It's just some thoughts/comments on the subject.

 

If 'leagues' are defined solely by brand names, which they certainly seem to be, then perhaps. I still don't think the R8 falls victim to this though. As I said, most people have no clue what it is, even with the Audi insignia clearly visible on both ends. If the transmissions on the G and R8 were visible from the outside, surely they would be held in the same light In fact, the attention that these cars get is unreal. Like Vroom said, it get's just as much, if not more attention than the G.

 

I was talking to my friend's brother a few weeks ago, who is from Finland. He's into cars, though doesn't drive anything near exotic. He mentioned that he has sees Lamborghinis and Ferraris in Helsinki, but had only ever seen one R8. Notice that he said 'R8' and not 'Audi,' and that he said 'Lamborghinis and Ferraris,' not 'Porsches and BMW's." If he perceives these to be on the same level, isn't it very possible that many others do as well? And isn't he really the best judge of this? He's middle-class; exactly the people brand snobs are so concerned with.

 

I really think you can best define where these cars stand by looking at what the owners have/had/considered. I think you will find that most of them have/had/considered Gallardos and 997TT's. F430's not so much, AM isn't in the same segment, and everything else is too common. Maybe I'm forgetting something, but whatever. One person approached me, a doctor, and asked about it. He said he was looking for a new car and was thinking about an R8 or a used Gallardo. This seems to fit the bill.

 

Now, I'd say that most people considering new 997TT's and used Gallardo, did so strictly from a price stand point. Not that they couldn't afford an extra 50-100K, but probably that they didn't want to spend it.

 

With prices between the two now overlapping, the fact that R8's are selling and Gallardos are sitting is very telling. Performance aside, I think we can all agree that the 2004 G isn't terrible different than the LP560. It's a great refresh, but it's still a G at heart. So the question now becomes, why aren't people buying the car from the 'league' above? One could argue that people want new cars more than used ones, but there are a TON of 'used' G's out there with only a few months worth of miles on them (0-5K mi Spyders anyone?) The higher mileage G's may be more susceptible to problems, but not 30-40K worth.

Too heavy for that distinction. It's nearly at the SLR's weight if you can believe it (wet, with gas) = 3,750lbs. Nearly 250lbs. heavier than a comparable LP560, and a ghastly 500lbs. heavier than an F430S.

 

It's clearly a great car, I'd consider it over say a 997TT, or definitely over a Vantage. But with slightly pre-owned LP560s on the market next year at a price point that's close the R8 V10's projected MSRP it would be a no-brainer in my mind as to which one I'd prefer.

 

And Vroom, if you think that car is more of a pussy magnet than G-car, you either live on another planet or your "girlfriends" need their eyes checked. Reminds me of Allan endlessly trying to convince us that the SLR would get more looks from women than an LP640...

 

I edited my post #7, have a look, the R8 5.2fsi only weighs 50 lbs more than the LP560, so you can toss your weight disadvantage argument into the trash. The R8 and the LP560 will have identical performance in the real world. I wouldn't be surprised if Audi intentionally under rated the power claims for the R8, so as to justify the 60k premium they are charging for the Lambo.

 

Brand appeal is important no doubt, but for me resale value is a higher priority and the R8 is clearly ahead at this point, and will continue to hold better value as long as Audi continues to limit supply in the US. By introducing the R8, Audi fucked over every Gallardo owner..... by cheapening/watering down the Lambo badge. So one way to look at it is that the Audi brand name is being pullled up by the Lambo association, and conversely, the Lambo brand image has been pulled down a notch.

 

Regarding pussy pulling power, you are wrong again; the SLR is top dog, but the R8 holds its own against a G, thru out the feminine food chain, from cougars, to 20/30 ish party girls, to jailbait. Give me some credit, when I tested the R8V10 I had MY eyes open, and feelers out!!

My friend, pull your head out of that Swedish snowbank for a second and listen up; the R8 and the Gallardo are two sides of the same coin. Audi designed and built both cars on the SAME platform, one in their German plant, the other in their Italian plant. So yes, if you deduct the snob appeal factor, they are in the same league. To make you happy, lets just call the R8 the bastard brother of the LP560!

 

In the US, the R8 is much rarer than a G, several thousand Gs vs 700 R8s. When I tested the V10 mule, I was shocked at the attention the car was getting; as much/more than my G. Personally I like the styling of the Gallardo better, but the general public(read young pussy) was all over the R8.

 

If you read the R8 reviews, the common denominator is how well the car performs in every category. In this sense it is different from our Gallardos(pre LP560), which are rougher around the edges/true sports cars. I drove the shit out of that R8, back and forth to work, all over the state, fast/slow and never got bored/tired or worn out. As for comfort features, on a weekend Miami trip, in the middle of Alligator Alley, I received the best high speed BJ ever, something I would not recommend you try with your SL, as it doesn't have the required magnetic damping system.

 

No mutual love huh?

 

It's still a fcuking Audi POS TT on steroids looking like apeshit with old owners wishing better comfort for their sore backs getting head by old fat women from Texas

There is an R8 running around my town and I got a good look at it just before the white stuff covered the grounds. Let me tell you that that is a bad ass looking car. I personaly don't think it looks better than the Gallardo, but it was definitely getting all kinds of "ooohh's" and "aahh's" when parked in front of the gym.

 

Some of you G owners need to take a chill pill and start realizing there are other bad ass cars out there other than the Gallardo that deserve respect, and I believe this R8 is definitely one of them...