R8 V10 vs. Lamborghini discussion

In all these photos, every one of them, I see a Gallardo and an Audi TT.

 

It is what it is. Some of you can claim it's bias, or hate, or pro-Lambo/anti-Audi sentiments all you like, but the bottom line is that many of us just don't get excited by seeing another round blob rolling around. I didn't like the concept version in iRobot, I didn't like the V8 car, and I don't like either the TDI concept or the V10.

 

They are absolutely great cars, how could they not be with the platform they were created from? Plus the interior is definitely superior to the exterior, no question.

 

But it's not a car I could get excited about at any price. It just doesn't have the impact for whatever reason. I do think it is a hell of a sexy car for the right girl, though.

In all these photos, every one of them, I see a Gallardo and an Audi TT.

 

It is what it is. Some of you can claim it's bias, or hate, or pro-Lambo/anti-Audi sentiments all you like, but the bottom line is that many of us just don't get excited by seeing another round blob rolling around. I didn't like the concept version in iRobot, I didn't like the V8 car, and I don't like either the TDI concept or the V10.

 

They are absolutely great cars, how could they not be with the platform they were created from? Plus the interior is definitely superior to the exterior, no question.

 

But it's not a car I could get excited about at any price. It just doesn't have the impact for whatever reason. I do think it is a hell of a sexy car for the right girl, though.

 

And blue is a better color than green...

 

Everyone has an opinion, and they are all valid to the extent that opinions are, but to say it's a TT is quite a stretch. How often do you find people swarming around a TT? I never have, but people certainly swarm the R8.

 

Drive one for a day or two, and you'll quickly realize that the majority of people, and not people on car foums, think it's something more than a TT. I wouldn't expect it to draw as much attention as the Gallardo, but it does. You might not see how it's possible, but it simply does.

 

I don't understand why Audi is being so stingy with them. We have a large Euro dealership in Madison that sells everything German under one roof,and they are only allotted one R8 a year. It seems like Audi is working the Ferrari marketing scheme with these.

I don't understand why Audi is being so stingy with them. We have a large Euro dealership in Madison that sells everything German under one roof,and they are only allotted one R8 a year. It seems like Audi is working the Ferrari marketing scheme with these.

Hence the novelty of it... I definately think that IS a large part of the R8s allure. No doubt it is a great driving car (based on all the positive opinions from those that have driven one). I must admit, I saw a black one with the silver sideblade about a week ago pulling into a parking lot and I had to turn around and drive through the lot just to get another look. It was truly intriguing and interesting to look at, but, I did have to check myself and wonder if I was so intrigued because I was actually looking at one or if it really looked that good.

 

After about 20 seconds I came to the conclusion that it really wasnt all THAT impressive...just interesting cause it was different. I too think thats Audi's angle with holding out so tight with production...

 

I was surprised at all the attention the R8 was getting, as much as my TTG, which is a tricked out ride for sure! When you get your V10, a few simple mods(ecu remap and exhaust) will make it as fast as a LP560. Audi intentionally detuned the car, but essentially you are buying a LP560 with all the rough edges removed.

 

The R8 generates a lot of hate here, understandably so, but I challenge anyone to put some seat time in one(even the V8, which I have also driven) and not come away from the experience loving the car and respecting its capabilities.

 

Fully agree.

 

I had the R8 V8 for the afternoon during launch. It is an impressive piece of work, but for one thing. It didn't give me that sense of occasion when I looked at it, sat in it, nor when I drove it. The RS6 talks to me in a way no M5 or E63 can. But no matter how I try, I just cannot get that passionate tug at the heart with the R8. It's just so forgettable. Don't get me wrong. Everything worked much better than my G, it felt much better built, the equipment was up to date, it felt more pliant in city, it could perhaps match and maybe outwit the G at track, but it just lacked X factor to me.

I agreed with a lot of the sentiments in your post, however the line above clearly indicated that you are a chronic glue-sniffing addict and need to stop.

 

 

 

 

You're so far off, it's ridiculous.

 

No mass market for it? Have you looked at sales? It's a $130+ car. There will never be a mass market for one. However, in terms of exotic mass markets, it certainly has a bigger one than most.

 

I take it that you didn't try to get one before the financial crisis took a turn for the worse, because it was certainly a longer wait time than any other exotic on the market.

 

The only reason the 911 doesn't age is because they don't change it.

 

 

 

Im not having a go at it....you misundersatnd. But you have confirmed my comments with your response.

 

Yes, it's sales very much confirm it.

 

How much is a 911....is there a mass market for those?!

 

It is not an exotic...and thats the point. Had they made a 'supercar', then fine.

 

For the most part it's only true rival IS the 911.....not a G.

 

The reason they dont change the 911.....is because it sells. FULL STOP.

 

 

Here's clarification: Answer this honestly,

 

Do you think the R8 will still be kicking up these conversations in 20+ years?

 

Will it have a cult following or become an icon?

 

Will a lot of die hard 911 owners be selling up an buying one?

 

 

 

Dont get me wrong, i'm sure its a fantastic car in every way. But its inception in the marketplace is not without limitations.

 

 

oh.....and it's design WILL date.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Im not having a go at it....you misundersatnd. But you have confirmed my comments with your response.

 

Yes, it's sales very much confirm it.

 

How much is a 911....is there a mass market for those?!

 

It is not an exotic...and thats the point. Had they made a 'supercar', then fine.

 

For the most part it's only true rival IS the 911.....not a G.

 

The reason they dont change the 911.....is because it sells. FULL STOP.

 

 

Here's clarification: Answer this honestly,

 

Do you think the R8 will still be kicking up these conversations in 20+ years?

 

Will it have a cult following or become an icon?

 

Will a lot of die hard 911 owners be selling up an buying one?

 

 

 

Dont get me wrong, i'm sure its a fantastic car in every way. But its inception in the marketplace is not without limitations.

 

 

oh.....and it's design WILL date.

 

 

R8 sales are very strong. The wait times were very long. Of course, this was before the financial crisis, so you can't look at the market now. It's not a fair representation of it.

 

There is no mass market for 911's. Not by a long shot. They sell what, maybe 30K 911's? How many of those are Turbos? You have to compare cars of the same price, so you can't count all the low-end 911's. There is a huge difference between $90K and $130K. Also, it is impossible for there to be a mass market for the car. $130K cars target a middle to low single digit percentage of the population. How could there be a mass market for a very minority percentage of population?

 

The 911 look is timeless because they never change it. If Lamborghini decides not to change the look of their cars for the next 30 years, they will also become timeless.

I dont think you are grasping the term of mass market within auto sales terms. The amount of the market 'attainable' within its relative financial sector. The 911 is a mass market seller, fact. This does not mean it sells more than a golf...it means that within the market of earners suited to its price tag who will buy a car...it sells more than a competitor. The same cannot be said for a lot of cars.....that is why I am making this point. The R8, due to its market placing, will struggle. G & F buyers, used, or otherwise, will not be taking the R8. 911 market is die hard. HENCE,,,,where does that leave the R8. long waiting times etc....is simply an excuse. It will sell, of course, but the tt drivers will be hankering rather than the g drivers. The small sector of multi-owners will also buy one for fun or as a run around....but that it a 'small' market. I live in central london, I have seen maybe 5 or 6 of them......and had not one conversation about it with anyone. When the ones I have seen drive down the street.....no one shows any interest. To the untrained eye, its a tt....or put simply an Audi. It should have been cheaper or much more expensive imho. That said, again,.....I have no doubt its a briilliant car...probably at least as good if not better than its competitors, but thats not the issue here.

 

 

 

It does absolutely nothing for me, however good. But thats only my opinion

As I said prior to the 4.2L car's launch, anything sells the first couple years after intro due to it being the new girl on the block.

 

The NSX sold 3,000 units in the US in year one, just 1,100 units in year two, and a paltry 650 units in year three. Meanwhile the base 911 continuously grew in sales numbers during the same span.

 

The R8 will fade quickly, particularly the 4.2L version which is horribly priced. That car is a $90k car selling for $120k, there is no debate about that fact in terms of performance, luxury, prestige, you name it. Sales are already dropping off dramatically, which is to be exected due to the recession. I doubt it will survive another 24 months as sales go to zero.

 

The V10 is a slightly better value proposition as long as it sells for the $160k Vroom and others keep clinging to with likely false hope. Above that it's out of its league in both marque-status as well as competition from tons and tons of used F430s/Gallardos, Aston Martins, etc etc etc.

 

 

. That car is a $90k car selling for $120k, there is no debate about that fact in terms of performance, luxury, prestige, you name it. Sales are already dropping off dramatically, which is to be exected due to the recession. I doubt it will survive another 24 months as sales go to zero.

 

Mako, do you have any idea what the manufacturing costs are for a Gallardo and a R8? Both are small run items, both built in Europe( similar labor costs, actually German labor costs more than Italian), same platform, same components, same, same, same just about everything. If you could ask the Audi bean counter what the cost difference is between both cars, my best guess is he will tell you 20k more for the Gallardo, MAX.

 

Using your own pricing logic, the Gallardo is a $110k car that sells for $240k!

Mako, do you have any idea what the manufacturing costs are for a Gallardo and a R8? Both are small run items, both built in Europe( similar labor costs, actually German labor costs more than Italian), same platform, same components, same, same, same just about everything. If you could ask the Audi bean counter what the cost difference is between both cars, my best guess is he will tell you 20k more for the Gallardo, MAX.

 

Using your own pricing logic, the Gallardo is a $110k car that sells for $240k!

 

You have to calculate in factors such as prestige, branding and shit like that Mr. Vraaaaudi

I would lick her toes and if one of her toe nails came loose in the process of me licking I would feast on it.

 

haha, prestige, branding??? Your obsession with the tattoo lady is rotting your mind!

R8=gay

Using your own pricing logic, the Gallardo is a $110k car that sells for $240k!

 

Exactly, you just proved my point. In the Gallardo's case, or an F430's case for that matter, the prestige of the marque makes it worth every penny of that $240k price.

 

The "Audi" does not justify its MSRP in that pecking order. And for the record I was talking about the woefully slow 4.2L car, not the V10 that you replied back to. I was very clear.

Exactly, you just proved my point. In the Gallardo's case, or an F430's case for that matter, the prestige of the marque makes it worth every penny of that $240k price.

 

The "Audi" does not justify its MSRP in that pecking order. And for the record I was talking about the woefully slow 4.2L car, not the V10 that you replied back to. I was very clear.

 

Huh, you're kidding right? With all things nearly equal(between a G and a R8) you would be willing to pay a $80 to $100k premium on a G for prestige and marque? Wake up man, Gallardo prestige ain't what it used to be; your extra 100k will go poof in the resale market PDQ!

 

I didn't reply back for the V10.... it was 10k for the xtra two cylinders, and another 10k for the trim. The R8V10 and the LP560 should be even closer, say a max of 10k difference in manufacturing cost between the two.

 

Bottom line is the Gallardo is way overpriced, not the other way around.

Huh, you're kidding right? With all things nearly equal(between a G and a R8) you would be willing to pay a $80 to $100k premium on a G for prestige and marque? Wake up man, Gallardo prestige ain't what it used to be; your extra 100k will go poof in the resale market PDQ!

 

I didn't reply back for the V10.... it was 10k for the xtra two cylinders, and another 10k for the trim. The R8V10 and the LP560 should be even closer, say a max of 10k difference in manufacturing cost between the two.

 

Bottom line is the Gallardo is way overpriced, not the other way around.

 

Did I ever say "me"? I'm telling you that this exact model has failed miserably time and time again. I even gave you a few case examples, yet your response is more about how the G and R8 are the same car with different bodies. I agree completely. The point you're missing is that it doesn't matter. They have very different badges.

 

It takes PRESTIGE to float in the deep end of the pool, prestige Audi simply does not have in the United States market. Am I talking about L-Power members? No. We are enthusiasts that make up less than 1% of the buyer market. The badge is meaningless to us, and rightfully so.

 

However, the other 99% are the people in the States need a bigger better badge on their car when they pull up to Mastro's than Audi can satisfy. That is a fact. Sad? Sure. But reality.

 

Again for the record, I think the R8 is a fantastic car. A hair away from an LP560, sure, why not. Though I think as the R8 V10 gets tested you'll find they're farther apart than you think in every performance metric, but for argument's sake, lets say they're equally great cars.

 

Unfortunately that means nothing in terms of the R8 failing. It will fail because when you're up around $175k the car better have a badge on it that says "Ferrari" "Lamborghini" "Porsche" "Aston Martin" or "Mercedes". It would fail even if the boom was ongoing, but the car's death will be absolutely accelerated by the recession.

 

Great car, unfortunately just not from the right manufacturer to survive.

 

 

^^

 

Mako, I get the badge/marque idea, I bought into it with my Gallardo. With the intro of the R8, Audi has diluted the Lamborghini Gallardo brand image. Like it or not the two cars are automatically linked together by the auto press and enthusiasts... comparisons are made on performance, styling and PRICE.

 

As for surviving, check out February 09 sales. The R8 sold more units than both the Gallardo and Murci combined. Lambo were sales down a staggering 65% while the R8's declined by around 24%. I think the R8 V10 will help stabilize sales. Clearly the LP560, even though it is a much, much improved G, has not helped Lamborghini sales. Besides tight credit, I don't see people wanting to eat the huge first year depreciation.

 

Like I said, the G is way over priced, given today's economy and the fact that a very, very similar car can be had for much less moola, and less depreciation too.

 

 

Audi has diluted the Lamborghini Gallardo brand image.

 

Maybe in Vrooms lala land..

 

I don't even hear 997 owners talk about the Audi Rat - and they own Carreras, not GTs and Turbos..

Why don't you sell your "not as much attention, worse DD and shitty bang for buck Lambo" and buy a "superior in every way" Audi if I may ask Sir?

Maybe in Vrooms lala land..

 

I don't even hear 997 owners talk about the Audi Rat - and they own Carreras, not GTs and Turbos..

 

If VW cloned a new sports car on a Porsche 911 chassis used the same engine, components etc, and then sold it for 50 to 60k less, you would be hearing a lot of talk, bitching and griping.

 

Why don't you sell your "not as much attention, worse DD and shitty bang for buck Lambo" and buy a "superior in every way" Audi if I may ask Sir?

 

I love my G-TT! And I would buy a LP560 over a R8 in a heartbeat, IF the LP560 was priced around 200k, loaded. That's all its worth.

If VW built a new sports car on a Porsche 911 chassis used the same engine, components etc, and then sold it for 50 to 60k less, you would be hearing a lot of talk, bitching and griping.

 

I was referring to them not even bitching about the R8 since they don't see it as a threat for their cars, simply because it isn't, it's a simple Audi. A non premium brand trying to sell a (fairly good performing but buttugly) car for almost Ferrari and Lambo cash - only old and diluted men would fall for that and tell me it ain't so Bernard?!

 

I'm glad to read you would choose the LP560 over the R8 (how could you not) - but reading your almost makes me think you are an Audi rep on their payroll!

 

Ps. I can't believe how we even can have a friggin R8 forum here with no SL subforum?! The SLR-dildo crap should be enough and now this! My blood pressure, please make it stop Ds.

^^

 

Okie dokie Pokie....try this out, get your hands on a R8V10 and drive the piss out of it for a day or two, or two weeks. If you still think the car is a POS, you will be forever confirmed in my eyes as a poseur(right now I just suspect you as being one).

 

I appreciate a fine car when ever I drive one. I never said the R8 was better than a G, just said in many ways it is as fine(again from a driving perspective) as a G.

 

The R8 subforum is a quiet place right now, but wait until the V10 comes along. SL vs R8V10 will be close. Competition is good!

 

btw, I am not pimping for Audi; don't forget they own Lamborghini and they WANT you to believe your G is worth 60k more than the R8.

^^

 

Okie dokie Pokie....try this out, get your hands on a R8V10 and drive the piss out of it for a day or two, or two weeks. If you still think the car is a POS, you will be forever confirmed in my eyes as a poseur(right now I just suspect you as being one).

 

I appreciate a fine car when ever I drive one. I never said the R8 was better than a G, just said in many ways it is as fine(again from a driving perspective) as a G.

 

The R8 subforum is a quiet place right now, but wait until the V10 comes along. SL vs R8V10 will be close. Competition is good!

 

btw, I am not pimping for Audi; don't forget they own Lamborghini and they WANT you to believe your G is worth 60k more than the R8.

 

Bernard, I'm not saying it's a POS, I'm just saying it is a simple realy ugly plain looking everyday Audi, that's all

 

I gave the RS6 a fair chance and that car sucked almost as much as the R8! Audi is a cheapmans BMW/Mercedes, no more, no less.

I also appreciate fine cars and if the R8 could be had for 30K I would maybe (not likely though as I prefer the S5 over it) rock one as a DD, but for theese cash, LOL

 

And for the record, I couldn't care less what Audi wants me to believe!

I didn't have posters on my wall of a Audi A4, I had posters of the Murcie - fcuk Audi - they are not in the same league as an exotic, much less a Lamborghini - it is not even the same fcuking sport!

 

With all due respect my dear friend, anybody who seriously concider an Audi, any Audi, to even be close to compete with a Lamborghini should get their bolts checked

^^

 

Have you ever driven a R8? Even the V8, though slow, is a sweet ride, if you get on it thru some twisties. The R8V10 is leaps and bounds better and will hang with your SL any day on any road or track.

 

Audi has a test facility near me, and I am in their test driver program. I have driven the S5(for two weeks) and no like. If you think it is better than a R8, no need to go further, POSER!

Exactly, you just proved my point. In the Gallardo's case, or an F430's case for that matter, the prestige of the marque makes it worth every penny of that $240k price.

 

The "Audi" does not justify its MSRP in that pecking order. And for the record I was talking about the woefully slow 4.2L car, not the V10 that you replied back to. I was very clear.

 

Apparently they aren't even worth 70% of the penny. Have you seen how cheap the nearly new Gallardos are? And they still aren't moving.

 

http://www.xxx/web/1317/vehicl...do-Superleggera Wonder how much of a beating slowpoke has taken in the first 3 month of winter ownership.

 

I'd hate to be the guy who paid MSRP for an SL. Something is very telling about not being able to move these cars with such discounts. Give a similar discount for an R8 with 1K miles and watch how fast it disappears.

 

The current economic climate surely has an effect on the exotic market, but give me a break. This is a correction. It's showing the true value of these cars, and even their precious marque can't save them.

 

The only new cars that they will be selling for a while will be to the real money. The ones who lost %30 of their net worth and still are filthy rich. Everyone else will sit on the sideline and scoop them up at deep discounts and more realistic values.