Are after market wheels the cause of accidents in Murcs?

Great info! Why I LOVE this site.

 

No problem. Glad to help shed some light on aftermarket wheels. on a side note, many older diablos have 3 piece wheels made by oz or speedline. It is always a good idea to dismount the tire to inspect the silicone bead to make sure that they are still good especially when these wheels are really old. Did anyone ever notice that 6.0 diablo and murcies have single piece or 2 piece wheels where the rim section is not siliconed?

could just be the type of person who wants aftermarket wheels is a show off type person who may not have the performance driven mods on his plate. I woudl say it is just a coincidence unless people have had issues that didn't result in accidents but can be pointed back to aftermarket wheels. Essentially if rubber is touching pavement a wheel is serving its purpose, different wheels/ tires may decrease peak performance or ride quality but it wouldn't make the car unsafe to drive around town IMO.

I don't personally know if they did or did not cause an accident. I will say this, from experience, any Lamborghini I have ever driven with aftermarket wheels drives remarkably more poorly than a stock car. It is actually noticable for me. I love wheels, don't get me wrong, I just have never personally ridden in a Lambo where the wheels, right size or wrong, improved or even held even with the factory performance. Just my .02

 

My 05 Coupe drove like complete hell with aftermarket GFG's on it. Once I put stock wheels and SL Corsa tires on it the difference was very noticeable.

what about performance (rather than style) oriented rims like Dymags?

this is the reason I love LP.

Great thread.

I love the look of some after market wheels but I like to stick with factory fitted ones.

I just got an e-mail from someone very knowledgeable regarding wheels and saw the thread and said that any difference in wheel size outside of spec between front and rear will cause the viscous coupling to heat to the point where the fluid loses its chemical properties, causing additional complications and failure.

 

 

 

 

I think this is the area that Lamborghini nailed it. Hermanas are perfect.

It's been known for years, that varying the wheel/tire specifications from OEM causes the monitoring sensors to give countermanding orders to the car's on-board computers. A large number of people just ignored those warnings for the sake of their masterful sense of style.

I think this is the area that Lamborghini nailed it. Hermanas are perfect.

 

Heremeras Lambo really knows how to design rims. I like pretty much all of them: Hermera, Hercules, Callistos, Cordelia, Ares (SV rims).

It's been known for years, that varying the wheel/tire specifications from OEM causes the monitoring sensors to give countermanding orders to the car's on-board computers. A large number of people just ignored those warnings for the sake of their masterful sense of style.

 

 

Could not agree more ... my local Lamborghini dealership flat out refuses to install aftermarket wheels due to this issue. The chief mechanic explained the ratio issues and the VT lock up as they have seen it on several cars ... ONLY those with aftermarket wheels. Same as others have stated. They further explained that the issues reveal themselves "mostly" in speeds that exceed 90MPH, as the sensors are extremely sensitive and it causes the computers to malfunction and the viscous coupling units lock. They stated that is is the worst on Diablo (all wheel drive only) and Murcis. Gallardo sensors are not as sensitive, so they state, but they will NOT install on ANY lamborghini with all wheel drive. Two wheel drive obviously does not apply in this situation. It was mentioned that the sensitivity is due to the car trying to monitor power delivery and correct dispersion for the VT system to operate correctly. Just what I learned when I spoke at length with the chief mechanic.

I've heard of the coupling issue on Lambos, but is this a prominent issue on other AWD cars, 911 Turbos, GT-R etc? I gather it would depend on the exact set up and sensors and what have you but I've never really heard much about it so I was just wondering.

The theory is that the after market wheels cause unusual wear in the transfer case causing it to suddenly fail, pulling the car to one side, usually the right. Yea it could be like all statistics that the same guy who buys after market wheels is the same guy who's more likely to push the car beyond its limits. While I know some wheels can void the warranty, especially if there is a drastic change in weight or size, I'd never heard this theory before last night- that they alone were a major cause or contributor to accidents. The question came up if Paymans's car had a wheel-induced failure somewhere.

 

FWIW There is also a fellow with a website who claims the problem is something that the company has known & hidden from the buying public. Evidently he suffered a major crash where the right wheel failed causing the car to pull violently to the right during a high speed run. He claims the (OEM) wheel failure is a design flaw. He attempts to corroborate his "findings" with several stories of similiar occurrencies.

I just got an e-mail from someone very knowledgeable regarding wheels and saw the thread and said that any difference in wheel size outside of spec between front and rear will cause the viscous coupling to heat to the point where the fluid loses its chemical properties, causing additional complications and failure.

Yes. that is indeed also a possibility but not as likely since many already know too great a difference between fr and rear could cause catastrophic failure... In that case, it is the shop that actually creates the mistake and not the wheel manufacturer by altering that front and rear ratio. When coupled with the right tires, there shouldnt be any problems. Not to mention, there should a slight % of tolerance as for example a diablo 4wd could sport a 245/35 18 or 235/35 18 up front without any problems. It is when the wrong size tire that is too great a percentage difference is put on that damage can result. Nevertheless, that could also be a factor. However, lower aspect ratio tires in the back with less side wall flex resulting in more sudden break away at limit probably would account for a higher percentage since many people who put on aftermarket tires falsely think that there is more grip back there... And when tail swings out suddenly without warning, that could catch them by surprise. With some flex on the tires, you would still get some of that elasticity effect, communicating to the driver and slowing down that break away. But with rubber bands on the rear of a mid engine car, when it goes, it goes mighty quick.... Consider how many cgt out there have lost it, and it sports 335 /30 20s.. kind of tells you what kind of handling characteristics a Murcie would have given its rear weight bias and 20s on the back. If you sport an 18 inch aftermarket wheel, you probably would be in better shape. BUT, I gotta admit, some of those big wheels do look pretty good. Just dont go too fast around those corners...

I keep stock rims on sport cars. Don't mind running aftermarket on DD's that's not meant for 200mph+.

 

Edit: If I don't plan on going above 150mph in the vehicle I don't mind aftermarket. Any vehicle I plan on going faster than 150mph I leave stock rims.

FWIW There is also a fellow with a website who claims the problem is something that the company has known & hidden from the buying public. Evidently he suffered a major crash where the right wheel failed causing the car to pull violently to the right during a high speed run. He claims the (OEM) wheel failure is a design flaw. He attempts to corroborate his "findings" with several stories of similiar occurrencies.

 

I've looked at that site and noticed that he includes just about any accident, even when it's a known cause which actually weakens his argument.

Years back someone started a thread about getting new tires and finding hairline cracks inside

aftermarket rims he had been using. Someone else chimed in with the same problem different

company. I thought most people voiced to just keep the factory rims on after that. They look better

anyway imo.

FWIW There is also a fellow with a website who claims the problem is something that the company has known & hidden from the buying public. Evidently he suffered a major crash where the right wheel failed causing the car to pull violently to the right during a high speed run. He claims the (OEM) wheel failure is a design flaw. He attempts to corroborate his "findings" with several stories of similiar occurrencies.

 

 

Does not look as OEM wheels to me.

 

From my point of view, he can be happy to have survived this heay accident, not the last thanks to the rigidity and structure of the Murcielago.

they must be the ugliest rims I've ever seen!

Unless you are blind you would pull your wallet out to by them for your Lamborghini.

Maybe they looked a bit better before the crash...

 

NO!

I just got an e-mail from someone very knowledgeable regarding wheels and saw the thread and said that any difference in wheel size outside of spec between front and rear will cause the viscous coupling to heat to the point where the fluid loses its chemical properties, causing additional complications and failure.

 

Maybe the addition of oil coolers for diff and/or VT's should be considered when changing from OEM wheels.

 

they must be the ugliest rims I've ever seen!

Unless you are blind you would pull your wallet out to by them for your Lamborghini.

 

 

As I recall he had just bought the car hours earlier..... I cant remember if he had them put those rims on or if they came with them????

 

However.... One of his arguments is that he is "an experienced driver". He may have been driving CARS a long time, but thats not the same as "Experience". TO ME "experience" mean a long period of seat time in a particular car over a period of time, in various road and weather conditions and levels of speed....

 

In terms of high performance cars, saying "Ive driven the 2007 Murcielago before" is meaningless.... How long have you driven THAT 2007 Murcielago? Because at the performance levels he was pushing it to, each one will behave slightly different. He had that car for a few hours and was already cranking it up to top speeds.... DUMB. Drive it for a few WEEK OR MONTHS..... LEARN the car..... Dont just strap yourself in and step on the fcuking thing and expect the car to make up for your lack of knowledge of what to expect.

 

As far as Aftermarket wheels.... Ive owned a lot of cars over the last 20 someodd years.... And every owners manual Ive ever seen has had some version of the legal disclaimer "adding parts not approved by the manufacturer" or specifically "changing the wheel specifications from those that came equipped with the car" can void the Manufacturer warranty ( or result in injury/death etc).

I guess if someone isn't driving their car hard, it probably doesn't matter, but for me, given how I drive, I'll stick with factory.

were you thinking of changing the SV rims?

My Murc came with 20's on , and the originals on palletts . After 900 miles I'm going back to stock this spring . Low profiles just screw up the ride , give no warning when approaching the limit and yeah kinda ugly anyway .

My big concern is that with all these fancy European names on the wheels , most are Chinese produced . We all know how quality oriented the Chinese are .

Can you imagine the cost to design , tool and adequately test a few wheels ? How many Murc wheels could they possibly produce and sell to offset these costs ? 50 ? 100 ? You figure it out .

Another concern of mine is the affect on thrust axis when manipulating wheel offset .

If there was any benefit in having 20's and larger on the $400+ k Murc , that Lamborghini , one of the premier supercar mfgrs. in the world would have bolted them on in Sant'#### .

If we do see future Lamborghinis OEM equipped with 20's and larger I'm sure that they'll be accompanied by taller tires that will provide an adequate side wall height . You don't see many race cars with low profile tires .

Again this goes back to the ricer look . Why are we imitating them ? it should be the other way around .

be accompanied by taller tires that will provide an adequate side wall height . You don't see many race cars with low profile tires .

 

Maybe you say WOW. Would you drive 253 miles/hour (400km/h) with those rims/tires (if it would be real)?