Shadowman and Discovery Automotive...

HUH?

 

huh on what?

I was just agreeing that the fact that he just constantly says 'GALS' is driving me bonkers

huh on what?

I was just agreeing that the fact that he just constantly says 'GALS' is driving me bonkers

 

True that!

huh on what?

I was just agreeing that the fact that he just constantly says 'GALS' is driving me bonkers

 

Ah, gotcha. ditto

Ah, gotcha. ditto

 

looks like the D/A website is now password protected

looks like Forum membership has increased by 5% this week.

He took me for a couple grand a few years back. Figured his business practices would take him down, didn't realize it would take this long.

 

Wonder what happens if he is walking down his steps & all of a sudden he ends up at the bottom of the steps without remembering what happened...is it the house's fault?

 

Hope Peak gets re-reimbursed or some kind of recourse from "Shadowgal" or maybe send him to jail to be someone's Shadowgal.

 

The unwritten law of responsibility is simply understood

looks like Forum membership has increased by 5% this week.

Shadowscum is working on a new identity and business plan to get back into the swing of things....I can almost guarantee it. One thing Ive learned from being around habitual liars is that they even believe themselves....that's how good some of them are.

 

there there Mark.....

One thing that I’ve realized this summer is that people can be glorified, villanized, and everything in between on the internet. On the internet, it’s easy to become whomever you want, whether it’s a close extension from yourself or a radically different persona. With this extension or evolution of one’s character, also comes a change in how a person voices their opinion, forms and expresses their own value set, etc. I think with this knowledge, we should take care.

 

This post is coming from someone who isn’t directly involved in this situation other than being friends with Shadowman. I’m addressing all other people, who are not part of the situation, who are forming their opinions and throwing stones.

 

With that being said…an important caveat…

 

I’ve experienced two very serious car accidents this summer. In one of them, I was driving. The other, I was nowhere near the car. In both accidents, thank goodness, no one was seriously hurt. In both accidents, the owner, me, was reimbursed for the loss of the car by my own insurance company. In both accidents, insurance companies stepped up to the plate and did their job.

 

When I was behind the wheel, besides being glad I was still breathing and walking, all I could hope for was the best for the others involved. My insurance company told me to not worry too much about it and to take care of myself. “Accidents happen and that’s what insurance is for” is what my agent said to me. When I wasn’t behind the wheel, and luckily only a short phone call away, my first instinct was that I was really glad my friends didn’t hurt or kill themselves. And that instinctive response to the unfortunate events that caused the demise of one of my cars remains still my prevalent thought about that accident…I’m really glad my friends didn’t hurt or kill themselves.

 

Where I’m from, insurance follows the car’s owner. Whether my insurance were to collect from a mechanic who crashed my car or a thief who stole it, I would expect them to pay me first and deal with collecting after. Again, this is just my way..not THE way.

 

Where I’m from, if someone who hasn’t given me personally a reason to question their motives for being decent, I assume they’re decent for the right reasons. If I imagine that the person I hand my car keys to might like to throw themselves into a guard rail or down an embankment for the sheer fun of it and reckless abandon of my property, I’ll hold on to my keys. It doesn’t matter if they’re a mechanic or a friend, if I’m not solid with them, I don’t give them access to my cars.

 

In my book, people that find their way into my world are usually there because I respect them. If I get so far as to hand my keys to someone, we’ve already broken bread and I’ve looked in their eyes. If I had to guess, I’d guess the owner of the Heritage FGT (RIP) is similar to me in that vein.

 

Anyways, who is Shadowman to me?

- The man designed and helped to build my FGT, he consulted pre and post install as well as maintaining phone calls to my local guy while she was under the knife. He knew I didn’t want to ship it and felt confident that my guy could do it. Shadowman also sourced parts and did not mark them up. We exchanged many long emails about cars, he calls them “gals” - get over it, and life in general.

- He was my second or third phone call after my friend’s accident. He consulted me throughout the wreck and the insurance process. He proved to be an educated, experienced person to dialog with and he has since become a close advisor.

- He was on my short list of people called after my own accident. Again, he helped me throughout that critical time, probably 6 phone calls in the 72 hours that immediately followed and many more updates after that.

 

To the owner of the car, Ray... this is only my opinion, please take it with a grain of salt. I don’t know you but you seem like a true enthusiast and I’m sorry you lost your car. I’m sure Shadowman didn’t want that to happen nor intended it to. I can’t speak for him, but I can only re-iterate that I’ve been in a similar situation…in your shoes…and there was never any insurance “issues” or soap opera drama allowed to fester on the internet. From my point of view, you have been made whole by your insurance company. That’s what it’s for. I can sympathize with possible ramifications that can arise from a “permissive owner” insurance sensitivity and hope that this issue finds resolve for you and you can get back to your magnificent collection. As far as who maintains principal coverage and who pays second..was/is up to the insurance companies. The issue of medical bills is, of course, a sticky one but if you or your insurance company wants to dispute Shadowman’s bills, refuse payment, or pursue reimbursement privately, you are free to do so.

 

I can not speak to how Shadowman runs his business, why he owns an SV or why he services it in Bellevue (for the love of pete, really?), his insurance coverages, nor his family life. None of these things have come up at this point. We have a mutually beneficial friendship that will hopefully mature with time. However, I have learned that I can only truly vouch for someone after I look into their eyes, but even still Shadowman has earned a place of high respect with me.

 

How this situation goes down is no one’s business other than Shadowman and Ray. It is ludicrous for the pied piper to come blaring throughout the internet, broadcasting his heresay, and inciting a fire that has nothing to do with him. It’s also unfortunate that the lemmings will easily assemble and fan the flames. There’s whistle blowing on genuine indiscretion or unlawful behavior, and there’s inciting drama because someone is bored or likes the attention. Where does the OP tend to fall on that spectrum with most of the people who know him?

 

I’m posting this because I would do it for any other person I call a friend and I’d want them to do it for me. This wasn’t solicited, this was offered.

 

I hope some of you can take a chill pill, put down the pitchforks, and walk away from the burning effigy. There’s nothing to see here. Two people got through an unfortunate situation, no one was hurt, the owner was made financially whole. Those are the only factors that should concern the community. Everything between the lines need not be dredged through the public domain.

 

As with anything, I hope that the rest of you never have to be on the bad side of a public e-stoning. You may quiet down a bit if you knew how bad it hurts. What if the witch at the stake wasn’t really a witch?

 

/end

 

************

 

5 statements from Shadowman that were agreed okay to share:

 

“The accident was nothing more than an accident that resulted in the totaling of a wonderful car and fortunately no one was killed.”

 

“Once all of the emotions are removed it is a rather simple situation; Ray asked Shadowman for help after his car had been with another for months and Shadowman agreed to do so, an act that he had afforded Ray in the past. Then there were many days during which a wonderful sharing of information took place between Ray and Shadowman ending with the horrific accident; an accident nothing more and the insurance companies per design paid for the loss.”

 

“Now with written permission to drive the car so along with copies of the current registration and insurance from Ray; this along with a statement from Ray stating that it was alright to drive the car and that it was fully insured as such “no worries” the drive commenced during which the unthinkable happened; an accident.”

 

“Now even though there was insurance coverage in place by Shadowman and Ray, and the fact that Ray has since been reimbursed $---K for the loss of the car, it does not diminish the fact that it happened as well as the chaos caused for many as the result of it. However at the same time it is not an incident that should be blown out of proportion.”

 

“Now even after the accident Ray and Shadowman worked together on his new Matech race car while in Virginia; this nearly 2 weeks after the accident so painting Shadowman into a corner makes no sense.”

wtf. Cliffs??

.

 

very well written Mr. SilverSurfer.

 

 

 

i love your perspective and it makes some sense.

 

 

three thoughts:

 

 

1. why was this incident posted in the first place.? (and how it was posted was confusing to me) same thing with the tone..

 

 

2. Since Ray and Shadowman are working together again, (Now even after the accident Ray and Shadowman worked together..." )

we can all get on with our lives. But as i said before, you better know who you are doing business with and since the internet is ALL about information, ( yes there are two side to every story), everyone that has read this on the internet can make up their own mind.

 

 

3. the insurance company should never be looked at as THEM, and neither should the US government. Some evil entity that picks money off of trees that are growing in the backyard. The money that they work with is ours, paid in premiums and taxes. There are many ramifications (including financial) when an insurance company pays out on a $250K claim. trust me, it affects ALL of us.

 

 

if i could ask for one thing from the humans that i share the planet it would be accountability. we should ALL be held accountable for our own actions.

 

that and respect for each other would take us a LONG way..

 

 

.

Silversurfer, you are kidding correct?! While I'm thankful that your accidents didn't kill you, they certainly have affected your ability to carefully select your friends.

The bottom line is Shadowman lied, deceived and shirked his responsibilities. ANY shop owner with a shred of decency or morals above that of a criminal would step in and make the owner whole if, while in the shop's care, custody and control wrecked a customer's "gal" ( kill me).

Please don't come here, an automobile forum, insult my intelligence, insult my fellow members and attempt to hold Peak liable for Shadowman's ineptitude and carelessness. All anybody here ever expected Shadowman to do was accept responsibility for his actions, make Peak whole and TRUTHFULLY explain how the accident occured. Instead Peak was treated like a leper and basically told "tough shit, you fucked up, you trusted me". Adding salt to the wound ( pun intended), Shadowman makes a claim AGAINST PEAK'S INSURANCE FOR P.I.??! I'm sorry but as an outsider to this fiasco, listening to both sides (thank you for presenting Shadow's ), I still see the man as scum of the earth. He's had time to think and make it right and still has not, and it doesn't appear that anytime in the near future he's willing to do so.

Save the pontificating and bullshit for cocktail parties, I ain't buying it. Tell your buddy Shadow, pay up or shut up. Your "letter from a friend" did nothing to change my mind, it only further infuriated me about this situation.

Silversurfer, you are kidding correct?! While I'm thankful that your accidents didn't kill you, they certainly have affected your ability to carefully select your friends.

The bottom line is Shadowman lied, deceived and shirked his responsibilities. ANY shop owner with a shred of decency or morals above that of a criminal would step in and make the owner whole if, while in the shop's care, custody and control wrecked a customer's "gal" ( kill me).

Please don't come here, an automobile forum, insult my intelligence, insult my fellow members and attempt to hold Peak liable for Shadowman's ineptitude and carelessness. All anybody here ever expected Shadowman to do was accept responsibility for his actions, make Peak whole and TRUTHFULLY explain how the accident occured. Instead Peak was treated like a leper and basically told "tough shit, you fucked up, you trusted me". Adding salt to the wound ( pun intended), Shadowman makes a claim AGAINST PEAK'S INSURANCE FOR P.I.??! I'm sorry but as an outsider to this fiasco, listening to both sides (thank you for presenting Shadow's ), I still see the man as scum of the earth. He's had time to think and make it right and still has not, and it doesn't appear that anytime in the near future he's willing to do so.

Save the pontificating and bullshit for cocktail parties, I ain't buying it. Tell your buddy Shadow, pay up or shut up. Your "letter from a friend" did nothing to change my mind, it only further infuriated me about this situation.

:eusa_clap: Thanks for typing what everyone else who read any of that bullshit was thinking. This is the only thing thats silver and hes been surfing.

Coming from someone with "Mean People Suck" in their signature John, and you're first instinct is to come out and insult my own ability to choose friends?

 

It's too bad you allow something that has absolutely no effect on you to infuriate you. And not in the same way as, "I'm not affected by the war in Afghanistan but it still makes me so mad that..." But truly, you're not effected in the slightest as to how this situation sorts itself out. Sorry JR but I'm not going to endorse burning a man at the stake because exotic owner's policy premiums are going up. It's a fact of life, cars on the road...cars crash. John, do you get this mad over every perceived injustice before you've had the chance to truly walk a mile in both parties' shoes?

 

I don't know Ray or the Shadowman, but I do know that the bottom line seems to be that the Shadowman has not demonstrated an ounce of personal (let alone professional) responsibility in this situation. Regardless of the fact that Ray got his insurance company to reimburse him for having his car totaled by someone else (because he had no other immediate option), the seemingly complete disregard for taking responsibility for his actions, portrays Shadowman as a complete jerk and rightfully being called out in a forum like this.

Coming from someone with "Mean People Suck" in their signature John, and you're first instinct is to come out and insult my own ability to choose friends?

 

It's too bad you allow something that has absolutely no effect on you to infuriate you. And not in the same way as, "I'm not affected by the war in Afghanistan but it still makes me so mad that..." But truly, you're not effected in the slightest as to how this situation sorts itself out. Sorry JR but I'm not going to endorse burning a man at the stake because exotic owner's policy premiums are going up. It's a fact of life, cars on the road...cars crash. John, do you get this mad over every perceived injustice before you've had the chance to truly walk a mile in both parties' shoes?

 

Many things in life have no direct effect on me, yet I don't sit idly by and do nothing about them. When and if I can do something about what I percieve as an injustice I do something about it. My reputation speaks for itself. (If you knew me or anything about me, you would agree) Be that as it may, no one is being "burned at a stake", Mr. Shadowman is being called out because of his shady business practices. We, as car owners keep each other abreast of incompetent and inept tuners, suppliers and distributers. He unfortunatly has chosen to lump himself in that category. No one put him there. He did it to himself.

Yes, cars crash. Let me pose something hypothetical to you, if you let your friend drive your car and he totalled her ( sorry) then handed you the keys and said "oops, my bad" yet offered you nothing would you not be the slightest bit upset? And look for compensation? You would work it out. If you had a deductable you would most certainly EXPECT your friend to cover that. Working it out is the key phrase. Something Shadow has yet to do. Oh, and let's not forget, after your friend wrecked your car, he made a claim against YOUR policy for injuries he sustained in his little folly.

Trust me pal, I'm not your JR. I've been around the block a few times.

I'm not trying to start another war here John, i'm trying to insert a calm.

 

If you thrive on this stuff and are not satisfied until heads roll, then so be it. Have at it.

 

I have said my piece.

I'm not trying to start another war here John, i'm trying to insert a calm.

 

If you thrive on this stuff and are not satisfied until heads roll, then so be it. Have at it.

 

I have said my piece.

 

I'm not trying to start a war. You came here and tried to defend something indefensible, I merely voiced my opinion. I'm not looking for heads to roll, I just want to see a wrong made right.

'nuff said

 

One thing that I’ve realized this summer is that people can be glorified, villanized, and everything in between on the internet. On the internet, it’s easy to become whomever you want, whether it’s a close extension from yourself or a radically different persona. With this extension or evolution of one’s character, also comes a change in how a person voices their opinion, forms and expresses their own value set, etc. I think with this knowledge, we should take care.

 

This post is coming from someone who isn’t directly involved in this situation other than being friends with Shadowman. I’m addressing all other people, who are not part of the situation, who are forming their opinions and throwing stones.

 

With that being said…an important caveat…

 

I’ve experienced two very serious car accidents this summer. In one of them, I was driving. The other, I was nowhere near the car. In both accidents, thank goodness, no one was seriously hurt. In both accidents, the owner, me, was reimbursed for the loss of the car by my own insurance company. In both accidents, insurance companies stepped up to the plate and did their job.

 

When I was behind the wheel, besides being glad I was still breathing and walking, all I could hope for was the best for the others involved. My insurance company told me to not worry too much about it and to take care of myself. “Accidents happen and that’s what insurance is for” is what my agent said to me. When I wasn’t behind the wheel, and luckily only a short phone call away, my first instinct was that I was really glad my friends didn’t hurt or kill themselves. And that instinctive response to the unfortunate events that caused the demise of one of my cars remains still my prevalent thought about that accident…I’m really glad my friends didn’t hurt or kill themselves.

 

Where I’m from, insurance follows the car’s owner. Whether my insurance were to collect from a mechanic who crashed my car or a thief who stole it, I would expect them to pay me first and deal with collecting after. Again, this is just my way..not THE way.

 

Where I’m from, if someone who hasn’t given me personally a reason to question their motives for being decent, I assume they’re decent for the right reasons. If I imagine that the person I hand my car keys to might like to throw themselves into a guard rail or down an embankment for the sheer fun of it and reckless abandon of my property, I’ll hold on to my keys. It doesn’t matter if they’re a mechanic or a friend, if I’m not solid with them, I don’t give them access to my cars.

 

In my book, people that find their way into my world are usually there because I respect them. If I get so far as to hand my keys to someone, we’ve already broken bread and I’ve looked in their eyes. If I had to guess, I’d guess the owner of the Heritage FGT (RIP) is similar to me in that vein.

 

Anyways, who is Shadowman to me?

- The man designed and helped to build my FGT, he consulted pre and post install as well as maintaining phone calls to my local guy while she was under the knife. He knew I didn’t want to ship it and felt confident that my guy could do it. Shadowman also sourced parts and did not mark them up. We exchanged many long emails about cars, he calls them “gals” - get over it, and life in general.

- He was my second or third phone call after my friend’s accident. He consulted me throughout the wreck and the insurance process. He proved to be an educated, experienced person to dialog with and he has since become a close advisor.

- He was on my short list of people called after my own accident. Again, he helped me throughout that critical time, probably 6 phone calls in the 72 hours that immediately followed and many more updates after that.

 

To the owner of the car, Ray... this is only my opinion, please take it with a grain of salt. I don’t know you but you seem like a true enthusiast and I’m sorry you lost your car. I’m sure Shadowman didn’t want that to happen nor intended it to. I can’t speak for him, but I can only re-iterate that I’ve been in a similar situation…in your shoes…and there was never any insurance “issues” or soap opera drama allowed to fester on the internet. From my point of view, you have been made whole by your insurance company. That’s what it’s for. I can sympathize with possible ramifications that can arise from a “permissive owner” insurance sensitivity and hope that this issue finds resolve for you and you can get back to your magnificent collection. As far as who maintains principal coverage and who pays second..was/is up to the insurance companies. The issue of medical bills is, of course, a sticky one but if you or your insurance company wants to dispute Shadowman’s bills, refuse payment, or pursue reimbursement privately, you are free to do so.

 

I can not speak to how Shadowman runs his business, why he owns an SV or why he services it in Bellevue (for the love of pete, really?), his insurance coverages, nor his family life. None of these things have come up at this point. We have a mutually beneficial friendship that will hopefully mature with time. However, I have learned that I can only truly vouch for someone after I look into their eyes, but even still Shadowman has earned a place of high respect with me.

 

How this situation goes down is no one’s business other than Shadowman and Ray. It is ludicrous for the pied piper to come blaring throughout the internet, broadcasting his heresay, and inciting a fire that has nothing to do with him. It’s also unfortunate that the lemmings will easily assemble and fan the flames. There’s whistle blowing on genuine indiscretion or unlawful behavior, and there’s inciting drama because someone is bored or likes the attention. Where does the OP tend to fall on that spectrum with most of the people who know him?

 

I’m posting this because I would do it for any other person I call a friend and I’d want them to do it for me. This wasn’t solicited, this was offered.

 

I hope some of you can take a chill pill, put down the pitchforks, and walk away from the burning effigy. There’s nothing to see here. Two people got through an unfortunate situation, no one was hurt, the owner was made financially whole. Those are the only factors that should concern the community. Everything between the lines need not be dredged through the public domain.

 

Can I take your gal for a ride sometime?

 

He was my second or third phone call after my friend’s accident. He consulted me throughout the wreck and the insurance process. He proved to be an educated, experienced person to dialog with and he has since become a close advisor.

 

Wow, the man not only is an amazing mechanic, orator, and tuner, he is also a psychologist and philosolopher. Hell, I feel like taking my car to him right now if only to have the privelege of basking in his presence.

 

As with anything, I hope that the rest of you never have to be on the bad side of a public e-stoning. You may quiet down a bit if you knew how bad it hurts. What if the witch at the stake wasn’t really a witch?

 

Hahahah, wow, I see he has been able to warp your mind. He actually has convinced you he's the victim here. Are you out of your mind? Oh poor Shadowman, poor poor Shadowman for being a scumbag and not only wrecking someone's car but seeking pity and attempting to spin the situation the same was he spun the car, encouraging his friends to do the same. You make me sick.

 

I also like how you state this is simply between Ray and Bill, oh wouldn't that be convenient? Sweep it under the rug so the next person can go through this. Sorry, people being informed about Discovery Automotive doesn't make them lemmings. The only thing it makes them is less likely of becoming his next victim so save your crap for some "lemming" who is willing to swallow it like some of his previous customers. Run along now, we aren't buying it.

Sorry JR but I'm not going to endorse burning a man at the stake because exotic owner's policy premiums are going up. It's a fact of life, cars on the road...cars crash.

 

 

.

 

if you are who i think you are, i know you to be an intelligent guy. i really did think that your response was thought provoking.

 

while traversing the internet, rarely, if ever, do i want to burn anyone at the stake. i don't take any of this that seriously. (my serious thoughts are with a 44yo friend who 3 days ago had a heart transplant.) i don't want to judge anyone nor have them judge me.

 

i buy insurance because i KNOW and expect bad things to happen. when my mechanic drives away in one of my cars, i know MY insurance will cover his driving of my vehicles. the insurance follows the car and unfortunately many people drive and borrow LOTS of my stuff.

 

 

cause really it's this simple:

 

ray says: fix my car

 

shadowman says: i will but i ain't got no insurance and if i wreck the car, it's on YOUR insurance.

 

ray says: that's ok, i have insurance. (ray knowing the risks of letting someone drive his car)

 

 

because of what i know about insurance, i personally have no beef with that.. IF that's what happened. as long as both parties acted in good faith and were truthful with each other.

 

 

the only question remains regarding Shadowman's insurance requirements as a business.

 

.

Everyone INVOLVED is a victim. You are not. I am not. This is not about sweeping it under the rug, this is about allowing the parties to work it out in private, just as you'd want done if it were you. Besides there being two sides, that's my only point.

 

And thank you JR, the response certainly burned up my Tuesday night so my girlfriend would be glad to hear that someone was moved by it.

Everyone INVOLVED is a victim. You are not. I am not. This is not about sweeping it under the rug, this is about allowing the parties to work it out in private, just as you'd want done if it were you. Besides there being two sides, that's my only point.

No one here is making any claims to any sort of entitlement regarding this situation with shadowscum and Ray. This thread is here and on other forums to assure that this doesnt happen to anyone else ever again. I hope that when this is through he cant get a job fixing mufflers at pepboys let alone working on others exotic GALS.

Everyone INVOLVED is a victim. You are not. I am not. This is not about sweeping it under the rug, this is about allowing the parties to work it out in private, just as you'd want done if it were you. Besides there being two sides, that's my only point.

 

And thank you JR, the response certainly burned up my Tuesday night so my girlfriend would be glad to hear that someone was moved by it.

 

I'm a victim, if I see "gal" written one more time my eyes will bleed and I will start convulsing.

 

Allow the parties to work it out in private? Oh, keep it out of the public eye you mean? Sure, if I completely F'd up by behaving like an irresponsible piece of trash and it was going to destroy my business I sure would want it hidden. I understand exactly where you are coming from, I agree.

 

There are two sides, unfortunately one side is using the random flying Ford GT excuse as apparently gravity was just working differently that day. Two sides does not mean that they both have equal value, one is full of shit, guess which?

Everyone INVOLVED is a victim. You are not. I am not. This is not about sweeping it under the rug, this is about allowing the parties to work it out in private, just as you'd want done if it were you. Besides there being two sides, that's my only point.

 

And thank you JR, the response certainly burned up my Tuesday night so my girlfriend would be glad to hear that someone was moved by it.

 

 

.

 

yea well it's 2:30 in the am in chi town but luckily my gf can sleep (next to me) whilst my laptop is on my chest.

 

 

i get your point, unfortunately you're paddling upstream here.

 

 

different perspectives make the world go round. !!

 

 

that was a bad ass accident. luckily no one was hurt, badly.

 

if someone had been hurt or killed, there would be attorneys all over the place, following the money TRAIL..

 

.

:eusa_clap: Thanks for typing what everyone else who read any of that bullshit was thinking. This is the only thing thats silver and hes been surfing.

 

Rob, Silversurfer is a very well respected member of the Seattle area car community with a substantial car collection. He doesn't just "own" cars, he truly participates in the automotive world. His views matter.

 

The whole idea of forums is to debate the issues and I'd hate to see people stop posting other points of view.