Phantom Space

I rent 3 units totaling 7,200 square foot.

 

Ive been at this location for coming up 2 years. As standard the lease is listed in a monthly charge which is detailed as the square foot price multiplied by the listed square foot. Al the numbers on the lease all add up.

 

A visitor mentioned that they thought one of the units was small compared to their location. Once measured the units were all under the listed size- over 1,100 square foot shy of whats listed! Were not talking 50 foot here. I understand this is called phantom space and is not uncommon.

 

The lease does not include common space charges, corridor etc. Telephone, meeting rooms and thing like that are all listed and charge for separately. And even calculating the common corridor outside the units (not that that is part of the lease) it is still massively off. In fact I cant get anywhere close to a way of measuring that would explain this massive error.

 

Over 1,000 foot for coming up to 2 years means Ive wrongly paid close to 100,000 grand.

 

Has anyone dealt with a landlord over an issue like this?

 

I have no reason to think the landlord wont do the right thing and repay me/credit me the difference. But has anyone had a landlord try to get out of it? If so what tricks did they try?

My initial thought was common areas..but you mention they are broken out in the terms of the lease. This could get really ugly. $100,000 isn't chump change.

 

It maybe be easier to get a rent reduction for the balance of the lease monthly prorating the $100,000.

Mezzanine level?

 

Had a customer acquire a warehouse, was told that the area it occupied, it had special mezzanine and lifting system, when my client moved in the previous company took the mezzanine structure with them. Shit storm.

 

Anyway why three units just to store all those anal probes?

You have been overpaying for 2 years and you find out now. Landlord isn't going to give you anything. I sure as hell wouldn't. You agreed to the price and the lease( including the errors in the lease ).

( including the errors in the lease ).

 

That could sound a fcuk load like intentional premeditated deceit (fraud)

 

Is the county assessment available, and does it match the lease?

 

fcuk you need a surveying crew just to make sure you don't get fucked on your lease, this is brutal.

 

In other news, holy shit you're paying $4-ft for warehouse space. Ouch!

 

I always round up favorably when I advertise my properties. Typically a 2800 sqft house gets rounded off to 3500 sqft. Never been called out on it.

I always round up favorably when I advertise my properties. Typically a 2800 sqft house gets rounded off to 3500 sqft. Never been called out on it.

Thats pretty favorable - to you - yes

You have been overpaying for 2 years and you find out now. Landlord isn't going to give you anything. I sure as hell wouldn't. You agreed to the price and the lease( including the errors in the lease ).

 

I think it is reasonable to expect that the square footage in a lease is accurately represented at least within 3 or 4 percent....a 15% overstatement is fraud.

You have been overpaying for 2 years and you find out now. Landlord isn't going to give you anything. I sure as hell wouldn't. You agreed to the price and the lease( including the errors in the lease ).

Ill chat with them and lawyer up if needs be.

 

If they dont compensate then I may be forced to stop the rent checks and leave - the landlords/managements office is right below mine and I couldnt face a battle on my doorstep.

 

If thats the case it seems landlords seem to deliberately overstate and hope its not noticed. Then - your saying - they say SCREW YOU for trusting Colliers International as the realtor and us as a professional landlord. And SCREW YOU is ok your saying?

I think it is reasonable to expect that the square footage in a lease is accurately represented at least with 3 or 4 percent....a 15% overstatement is fraud.

Yes - if it was small then SURE, I wouldnt bother - but were talking over a thousand square foot.

You could also sue the realtor for misrepresentation.

I rent 3 units totaling 7,200 square foot.

 

Ive been at this location for coming up 2 years. As standard the lease is listed in a monthly charge which is detailed as the square foot price multiplied by the listed square foot. Al the numbers on the lease all add up.

 

A visitor mentioned that they thought one of the units was small compared to their location. Once measured the units were all under the listed size- over 1,100 square foot shy of whats listed! Were not talking 50 foot here. I understand this is called phantom space and is not uncommon.

 

The lease does not include common space charges, corridor etc. Telephone, meeting rooms and thing like that are all listed and charge for separately. And even calculating the common corridor outside the units (not that that is part of the lease) it is still massively off. In fact I cant get anywhere close to a way of measuring that would explain this massive error.

 

Over 1,000 foot for coming up to 2 years means Ive wrongly paid close to 100,000 grand.

 

Has anyone dealt with a landlord over an issue like this?

 

I have no reason to think the landlord wont do the right thing and repay me/credit me the difference. But has anyone had a landlord try to get out of it? If so what tricks did they try?

 

 

I've seen landlords add everything that the tenant benefits from including stairwells, hallways, utility rooms (!) and even parking lots (!!). Most time BOMA standards allow amortized addition of all these things, like elevators, lobbies, etc. As you mentioned though they are broken out on your executed lease. Even if you take half the thickness of the interior walls it doesn't come close to the differential you mentioned. And gross up load factor only affects the common area stuff again.

 

Tough situation. I hope you get it resolved and there is a reasonable solution.

I think I see a post from Donnie coming in the "I need a new gun" thread...

I always round up favorably when I advertise my properties. Typically a 2800 sqft house gets rounded off to 3500 sqft. Never been called out on it.

 

What possible purpose does this serve? Why not list the true value?

 

Donnie, hope you get this resolved in a favorable way (at the lowest end of the favorable scale is finding/taking pictures of the person and doing numerous photoshops that can be posted all over the internet lol).

Interesting

 

approximate sizes...

 

Suite 1 is the smallest but has the largest error.

 

This means if it was communal space that was factoring in they should all have the same percentage in "error"? Each unit is listed separately in the lease.

 

Also - I just got the new sales literature - in it they list the units sizes - they match (or close enough) the REAL size (still almost a two hundred off) - so the sale material is correct(ish) but the lease is wrong by 1,100.

 

Going from memory I said I had 7,200 in my original post - I was wrong - I have 6,200 REAL space but lease says 7,500. Whats that? 20%

 

Ive been over the lease 3 times and had others read it - NO mention of communal charges anywhere.

finding/taking pictures of the person and doing numerous photoshops that can be posted all over the internet lol.

 

I have 16 licences of photoshop - I will use all of them at once to channel the power upon them.

What possible purpose does this serve? Why not list the true value?

More money

 

Donnie, terrible situation I'm sorry. Hopefully you can find some solution before aggressive action is needed, though its not likely.

One other thing, how much time is left on the lease?

 

Seems like the easy solution is to figure out your overage and deduct that from the remaining payments.

 

Best of luck man, i'm curious to hear how it comes out.

I hope it works out for Donnie as well but it sure would be entertaining for the rest of us watching him go photoshop medieval on the landlord's ass.

 

We've seen what he can do when he isn't mad......imagine when he gets angry? The Incredible Hulk of picture funny.

What possible purpose does this serve? Why not list the true value?

 

$$$$$, more of it. Technically if you include garage space and patios you would probably get to that number.

Technically if you include garage space and patios you would probably get to that number.

But if they did that each unit would have the same percent over? yes?

But if they did that each unit would have the same percent over? yes?

 

Have you asked them? I'm sure they have a perfectly reasonable answer or a completely assinie excuse.

Have you asked them? I'm sure they have a perfectly reasonable answer or a completely assinie excuse.

Will be - speaking to the lawyer that dealt with the lease this afternoon - Just want to check if anyone here had been through it. From what I read it seems to be quite common.

 

I`d suggest if your renting , especially larger offices/spaces, to do some measurements ASAP.

Will be - speaking to the lawyer that dealt with the lease this afternoon - Just want to check if anyone here had been through it. From what I read it seems to be quite common.

 

I`d suggest if your renting , especially larger offices/spaces, to do some measurements ASAP.

 

Interesting thread. I just leased a new space and was a little miffed over the landlord obviously counting mechanical / furnace rooms and being over by 14sf... Guess it's not so bad.

 

It's been said, 20% over isn't a rounding error, isn't common areas, isn't half wall thickness, it's flat out fraud. Lawyer time. Good luck.

But if they did that each unit would have the same percent over? yes?

 

 

No, it is a pro-rata calculation based on each unit's size. The bigger the unit the greater percentage of common area expenses you will have, if I read your comment correctly.