Sooooo... This just happened outside my work....

Guess I won't be doing any more sight seeing heli flights.

 

Was never keen on it (for this very reason) but went 3 times in Hawaii and once in Alaska. Also did a flight over Grand Canyon (on GIRO) which was awesome.

 

Anyone know what the odds are of a crash? There must be thousands of heli flights every day between private and for hire. Is it still safer than car travel? (I assume yes but have no idea of the numbers). I assume heli is not as safe as airplane travel - but again....no idea of numbers.

 

Don't know about heli but some years ago I was completing an application for life insurance and told them I smoked (fyi I gave up) = bad, rode motorcycles = bad and flew single engine planes = VERY bad

 

It's a pretty confusing video. Only the pilot can say what happened at this point. Also, I'm not sure what's going on with the tail rotor. In the slow-motion video, it appears to stop and reverse spin direction, as if it's windmilling and free to spin in any direction...such as if a shaft broke or the TR gearbox came apart. So who knows if that's a visual trick with the camera, or it's actually jacked up. The reason it has my attention is because it happens at the same time the pilot is appearing/sounding to react to something.

 

If this is a tail rotor problem, with the pilot attempting to land as soon as possible, he's going to have the twist grip (the throttle in a Bell 206) at idle...basically autorotating in the short hairs to keep the aircraft from spinning (yaw), but not quite a "cut-gun." Then he's going to ask for power, twist the throttle open, and start pulling on the collective. ...in which case the main rotor torque would be un-compensated for via the failed tail rotor and the Bell 206 would begin yawing to the right (the opposing direction from the main rotor's spin direction). ...But that didn't happen. He actually started yawing left. ...but who the hell knows what the winds were doing or if he asked for enough power to drive the torque. As an aside, the B206 has a "Jesus nut" on the tail rotor as well, so if something like that came off/loose, your best option is to pray to Jesus (hence the "Jesus nut"). IIRC, it's a cotter keyed nut, so that's all that's between you and disaster, lol.

 

All I can see and hear is that they begin what looks like a fairly normal descent to land, something goes wrong, and the power changes are audible going from low to high. The aircraft pitches up slightly about the same time the noise changes as well as when the tail rotor appears to reverse spin. The pitch-up at least looks like a purposeful control movement.

 

 

If this is a problem with power required exceeding power available, the factors to consider are,

 

- Engine failure. Did something break, or did the pilot ask for too much and something broke? Did they settle with power (too slow an approach speed accompanied by too great a descent rate causing the blades to stall as they fail to get a bite falling through their own downwash, aka "vortex ring state")? If so, the little nose pitch-up they did would make things worse and accelerate an uncontrollable descent. Did something fail and the pilot's reaction wasn't quick enough to catch it? Bad fuel, fuel starvation, air flow problems, material failure, mechanical failure...all things that will end an engine's ability to produce power.

 

- Gross weight limitations. The B206 is far from being a cargo hauler. It's a pretty weak sister in that respect. Is this a standard B206 with its smallest powerplant, and with a max gross weight somewhere around 3,200lbs, filled up with four fat asses and all their gear? Or is the helicopter in a fairly normal gross weight configuration at the time of the mishap? Gross weight limits play into power required exceeding power available. Plus, did the PR > PA happen above ground effect or in ground effect, worsening the problem? Who the hell knows.

 

- Environment. Is the gross weight maxed out and the density altitude value at the time very high? (exacerbating the problem) Do they have a significant tail wind screwing with them? Is icing a factor (not in Hawaii, haha)? Is the airflow into the engine disturbed in any way? Who knows.

 

- The pilot (crew). Is he incapacitated? Was he improperly applying his skills? Was he properly trained and/or current in the aircraft? Was he slow to react? Was someone else on board fighting for the controls? Was he disoriented and improperly controlling the helicopter, having flown the approach over the water (which is moving and is a visually confusing reference when flying or hovering), and his only reference is the beach? Can he see properly out of the plexiglass either because the plexi is in bad shape or he forgot his glasses? Who the hell knows.

 

 

If this is a controllability problem, the factors are,

 

- Control rods, linkages, bushings, etc.

 

- Did something interfere? Objects falling on controls or jamming controls in the cockpit...did a fcuking wasp fly in the window and there was hand-to-hand combat going on? ...in other words, you can see how wide open the options for conjecture are here.

 

- Did one thing breaking cause something unrelated to break...such as a turbine blade spitting through the case and severing a hydraulic line to the flight controls.

 

- Did the stick or collective actually break or become disconnected? ...could be physical/mechanical or electrical. Or did something break just barely enough to make moving the controls feel foreign enough so as to not be able to learn what it was doing and react in time to save it?

 

So, in the end, who the hell knows. Ask the pilot.

I have taken my family on Heli tours in Maui, and there is no better way to see that island than from the air as most of it is impossible to get at any other way. During the rainy season, the hundreds of waterfalls from the air is incredible. I did have a client however, who died in the 80's in a helicopter crash while on his honeymoon in Hawaii. Very sad circumstances there as the helicopter went down in the water also. He could not swim. His new wife lived.

Just join a forum or FB group and you'll see how many crashes there are. Lots. Most are human error, very few are mechanical.

 

 

 

Guess I won't be doing any more sight seeing heli flights.

 

Was never keen on it (for this very reason) but went 3 times in Hawaii and once in Alaska. Also did a flight over Grand Canyon (on GIRO) which was awesome.

 

Anyone know what the odds are of a crash? There must be thousands of heli flights every day between private and for hire. Is it still safer than car travel? (I assume yes but have no idea of the numbers). I assume heli is not as safe as airplane travel - but again....no idea of numbers.

 

Guess I won't be doing any more sight seeing heli flights.

 

Was never keen on it (for this very reason) but went 3 times in Hawaii and once in Alaska. Also did a flight over Grand Canyon (on GIRO) which was awesome.

 

Anyone know what the odds are of a crash? There must be thousands of heli flights every day between private and for hire. Is it still safer than car travel? (I assume yes but have no idea of the numbers). I assume heli is not as safe as airplane travel - but again....no idea of numbers.

The mishap stats are roughly the same between rotary and fixing wing flight. Helicopters scare people more because we don't like trusting mechanical things vice a wing that just sits out there and can glide. Plus, the problems that we hear about sound so much more gruesome and violent, but a fixed wing crash is just as likely to kill you because the ground hurts and it always wins in the end.

Small planes and Heli's are risky. I've heard about deaths in both from experienced pilots just in the last year. It's so fun but like anything you do there's a calculated risk.

I was just told 3 individuals kept swimming to the bottom to get inside of the helicopter with a serrated knife to try to cut the boy out. They were swimming through gasoline and all sorts of stuff in the water. Sad that they couldn't get him out sooner.

Small planes and Heli's are risky. I've heard about deaths in both from experienced pilots just in the last year. It's so fun but like anything you do there's a calculated risk.

 

If everyone is suddenly afraid to hope in a heli or plane, then don't look at car stats...

 

Go enjoy life to it's fullest

If everyone is suddenly afraid to hope in a heli or plane, then don't look at car stats...

 

Go enjoy life to it's fullest

 

Lets realistically look at car stats and circle back on this. If you compare helo deaths with the gross miles traveled (# of Helos in the US x #'s of miles traveled or even flight hours) vs that of cars, i'm sure they aren't even in the same universe. Small planes (not commercial aircraft) are likely not far behind helos.

 

IIHS states that for vehicles in 2013, there were 1.11 deaths for every 100,000,000 vehicle miles traveled. Put that on a 40mph average speed and it's one death per 2,250,000 hours.

 

Helocopter rates were 1.02 per 100,000 flight hours (146 total).

 

So conservatively a helo is 22x as likely to kill you as a car.

eye witness report of smoke and "shaking" prior to crash.

 

http://www.leaderherald.com/page/content.d...=1&nav=5041

 

 

I've read gyrocopters are extremely safe, because they do not rely on any power to the rotor to stay in the air. They are always in autorotation. Perhaps they could be a safer alternative for sight-seeing as opposed to a helicopter.

If everyone is suddenly afraid to hope in a heli or plane, then don't look at car stats...

 

Go enjoy life to it's fullest

good point. I gave up my motorcycle due to increased risk. I don't really miss it. Im willing to give up heli tours for the occasional vacation.

 

I am going to continue driving on race tracks. I love it and accept the risk. I don't love heli rides that much.

 

It's about risk vs reward.

 

What would cause the heli to come down that quick?

 

Just a guess...but the drive shaft failed. Sound's like the engine rev'd up quick but it obviously had no effect on the rotors.

 

And no where near enough altitude and forward velocity to attempt autorotation.

 

Hope everyone on board is safe!

Just a guess...but the drive shaft failed. Sound's like the engine rev'd up quick but it obviously had no effect on the rotors.

 

And no where near enough altitude and forward velocity to attempt autorotation.

 

Hope everyone on board is safe!

 

There was a 16 year-old boy on board who died today unfortunately.

Receiving news now that the kid is still in critical condition and the reports stating that he had died have been retracted.

It is truly sad about the accident. I have seen various reports of the 16 year old. I hope he/she is safe.

 

I have ridden in a few helicopters and they were a blast. One was a Huey complete with Vietnam era bullet holes, over Devils Lake North Dakota. And one Blackhawk over the Black Hills of South Dakota complete with a view of Mount Rushmore. And various other R44s. They are so fun, and I wont quit riding in them, much like I wont quit riding motorcycles. If its my time its my time, nothing I can do about it.

Just a guess...but the drive shaft failed. Sound's like the engine rev'd up quick but it obviously had no effect on the rotors.

 

And no where near enough altitude and forward velocity to attempt autorotation.

Ref my above wall of text (and then put Neosporin on your eyes). Still could be anything until we hear what the people on board say.