The Modern Man Thread

Question to those who have kids who say (and I believe you) something "clicks" when you hold your own child in your arms. The emotion cannot be duplicated when considering other people's kids.

 

What about adoption? If you cannot naturally concieve, or choose to adopt whether or not you can concieve - can you feel the same way about a WANTED adopted child versus your biologically produced child?

 

I've heard of people who have their own kids biologically but also choose to adopt. I'm curious if the desire to adopt can be so strong that it triggers the "click" that many experience when holding their baby for the first time - even after not truly wanting to be a parent.

I've never adopted, but I can't envision myself experiencing that click with an adopted child. It feels very much welcome, but involuntary, however you choose to look at it (biologically, spiritually, whatever). Yet, even if the click doesn't occur with an adopted child, I don't think that's the sole impetus for wanting to step up to the plate to raise one. I think people who adopt, and do so successfully, exercise other motivations and abilities that serve them well. That's another way of saying there are many ways to start a fire other than a spark.

SingleSeat - that makes sense.

 

I also wonder how it is for people who desperately want their own biological children but are unable to concieve. They adopt. Do they ever overcome the inability to concieve? Obviously if you want a child THAT much, then an adopted child is still very much a "wanted" child. But it's also clearly a second choice.

 

I'm simply curious. I admire people who choose to adopt whatever their motive (assuming no bad motives here). To give an unwanted or orphaned child a home and a future is a huge commitment and not everyone is suited to the sacrifice.

 

Interesting discussion....

SingleSeat - that makes sense.

 

I also wonder how it is for people who desperately want their own biological children but are unable to concieve. They adopt. Do they ever overcome the inability to concieve? Obviously if you want a child THAT much, then an adopted child is still very much a "wanted" child. But it's also clearly a second choice.

 

I'm simply curious. I admire people who choose to adopt whatever their motive (assuming no bad motives here). To give an unwanted or orphaned child a home and a future is a huge commitment and not everyone is suited to the sacrifice.

 

Interesting discussion....

 

I second SingleSeat in that I can't imagine the same 'click' with an adopted child. This takes nothing away from the inherent altruism of adoption; it's just different.

 

I remember when my first was born, I literally gasped when I heard her little cry and saw her for the first time. That was the 'click'. My cousin recently adopted a young girl and after hearing about the (very) lengthy application process, there simply isn't the same on/off occasion of "you're not a dad, now you are"... Something that cannot be replicated, no matter how similar the end result is.

I kind of have both sides of the fence. My wife had a child before me. His dad is a total dipshit, and ive essentially been raising him since he was 3 years old. He calls me dad, and I love him like he is my own flesh and blood. I had my first paternal child back in april. That feeling, rush, overwhelming, whatever you want to call it, that happens when they pull this little baby out of your wife, is not something that I believe can be replicated. So while I think I became a father raising my (now 6 year old), I think things REALLY click, when you have a newborn, because they are so completely helpless, and time consuming. Where as my first was fairly independent, you don't have that option with a baby, and it forces you to REALLY change.

I'm not sure that we can concretely say that our innate human nature goes against monogamy. A great many people mate for life while others end up switching or remain completely unattached for life. There are so many environmental and cultural factors confusing both arrangements that I don't think we can get our arms around either idea for sure. It's very confusing. At least for a few hundred years, I'm guessing our own nature will probably remain a mystery.

 

 

I agree. There's never a "good" time. No one is ever perfectly ready. There's no making everything exactly perfect for a kid to come into the world. I think we all can agree that a good man rolls with it and makes good on what he has sewn. The manliness problems that we're talking about come when women think that the man in their lives isn't doing the job well enough. Many women are correct, and their man is failing them. However, I have found that many other women are gruesomely confused by what their man brings to the parenting table -- which is why I said what I said earlier about basically wanting men to follow female priorities and installing two women at the helm, except that one of them has a penis.

 

The secondary problem becomes that some women with sons are thrilled that they've succeeded in raising what amounts to little girls, while other women are confused by the societal crossfire and are left wondering why their little boys aren't becoming SEALs, or don't have any masculine traits or habits or can't even fill the slightest masculine functions for that matter. Feminism has done a good job of bringing women closer to where they should be in our world. However, I do (unfortunately) feel that we're raising generations of wimps in large part as a result, as described in this article Nation of Wimps. Our next role in it is in being good enough men to raise daughters because that's probably the #1 issue that I've run into in relationships with women over the course of my life -- daddy issues. The women with secure and lasting relationships with their fathers stand out like a sore thumb from the crowd of women who have lived through more pejorative paternal connections. I've found those women to have fewer significant issues than their peers, all thanks to a dad who did his J. O. B.

 

One more aspect, however, is that these kinds of issues in America are more prevalent in urban and suburban settings. The business of gender role flux isn't as hot through America's rural areas, which constitute huge portions of the country. I don't think we're in danger of running out of candidates for Naval Special Warfare teams any time soon, but unabated, we'd get there eventually with current trends. The trends and social outgrowths of our cities bleed into the surrounding areas rather than the other way around.

 

We have yet to achieve balance and neither gender should be afraid to admit it so that we can instead get down to the business of making the future better. Of late, we've been crushed for decades that too much testosterone is a bad thing for our world while we've left the estrogen flood gates wide open. It's high time we got our shit together and got things back in order instead of playing hippie-generation partisan sex politics and confusing the hell out of each other with how we, as men, should behave.

 

Nice post, SS.

The thing is technically you are never ready, you have to make sure you don't let life pass you by while in pursuit of what you perceive to constitute the ideal scenario.

 

Very true.

 

A tough one to negotiate, although if you get hit hard with "The One", you probably are willing to roll the dice.

Where as my first was fairly independent, you don't have that option with a baby, and it forces you to REALLY change.

 

Yeah, we all live in our own world with varying levels of maturity and responsibility.....but I'd agree that adding a kid makes every (decent) man more responsible.

We have yet to achieve balance and neither gender should be afraid to admit it so that we can instead get down to the business of making the future better. Of late, we've been crushed for decades that too much testosterone is a bad thing for our world while we've left the estrogen flood gates wide open. It's high time we got our shit together and got things back in order instead of playing hippie-generation partisan sex politics and confusing the hell out of each other with how we, as men, should behave.

 

I think we've swung the pendulum go far from "Men know and rule all" to "everything male is bad and the source of evil and all things feminine are above questioning and righteous." Both swings keep things out of balance because at the core the difference between men and women are great, but they are complementary, not contradictory. But we've tried the "one gender fits all approach" and we're seeing it simply does not work.

 

I find it fascinating as well how intertwined the topic of kids fits into all of this. No matter which side of the fence you're on No kids like me, or pride and joy like Fortis) it's nice to see we all agree that a strong male figure is important t have as well as a strong female figure. I also agree that no one can fully appreciate the fullness of being a parent until one has crossed that bridge, but for many, myself included, that bridge is not one we have any desire to ever cross.

I find it fascinating as well how intertwined the topic of kids fits into all of this. No matter which side of the fence you're on No kids like me, or pride and joy like Fortis) it's nice to see we all agree that a strong male figure is important t have as well as a strong female figure. I also agree that no one can fully appreciate the fullness of being a parent until one has crossed that bridge, but for many, myself included, that bridge is not one we have any desire to ever cross.

 

Agreed. It is indeed interesting. I'm right there with ya, while the feeling may be a contrast thing, some of us simply have zero desire to have it. Happy for my friends who are satisfied with whichever side they're on. Isn't a pissing match.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp...esearchers-say/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp...esearchers-say/

 

Interesting read...I think a large part of that is due to the movement of the workforce from manual labor into the cubicle

As I have been away I have missed this thread. Let me adjust my skinny jeans and fix myself a Frappa-cappa-chino-noir-uldle-berry coffee (not grande else these skinny jeans will not fit) and I will read this.

 

Also my single speed bike picked up a puncture when I was cycling back from that microbrewery where they had some really intense saisons which they serve in crab pincers.

Once I have fixed those I will read through this.

As I have been away I have missed this thread. Let me adjust my skinny jeans and fix myself a Frappa-cappa-chino-noir-uldle-berry coffee (not grande else these skinny jeans will not fit) and I will read this.

 

Also my single speed bike picked up a puncture when I was cycling back from that microbrewery where they had some really intense saisons which they serve in crab pincers.

Once I have fixed those I will read through this.

 

*le tips fedora*

m'moderator

As I have been away I have missed this thread. Let me adjust my skinny jeans and fix myself a Frappa-cappa-chino-noir-uldle-berry coffee (not grande else these skinny jeans will not fit) and I will read this.

 

Also my single speed bike picked up a puncture when I was cycling back from that microbrewery where they had some really intense saisons which they serve in crab pincers.

Once I have fixed those I will read through this.

 

 

I'd be curious to your thoughts on some of the topics raised here

 

....

Started reading, picked up an eye injury from rolling me eyes.

 

Honestly. Order a bloody large martini and check if your penis has packed its balls and left. I am surprised we are having this kind of thread on here but I am still surprised by the fact there are vegans*.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Show me a male vegan and I will ask him what the woman looked like that convinced him veganism was the way to go.

 

Started reading, picked up an eye injury from rolling me eyes.

 

Honestly. Order a bloody large martini and check if your penis has packed its balls and left. I am surprised we are having this kind of thread on here but I am still surprised by the fact there are vegans*.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Show me a male vegan and I will ask him what the woman looked like that convinced him veganism was the way to go.

 

Classic Captain :lol2:

Started reading, picked up an eye injury from rolling me eyes.

 

Honestly. Order a bloody large martini and check if your penis has packed its balls and left. I am surprised we are having this kind of thread on here but I am still surprised by the fact there are vegans*.

 

 

*Show me a male vegan and I will ask him what the woman looked like that convinced him veganism was the way to go.

 

 

Alpha as phuck