UGR Gallardo runs 9's

Much higher top speed.... not really... And by the time you hit top speed in the Murci, the TTG would have accelerated for 0 to 200mph 3x, and stopped for breakfast.

 

 

I recon that a LP640 with a MS RACING Stage ll could brake 350 km/h. How fast could a GTT go ?

 

And can the engine of a GTT cope with hors of highspeed ?

 

I would REALLY like to know, I am not uninterested in a GTT... We need to test one under European conditions and driving habits.

 

Since you arrive first you can order.... and pay...

I recon that a LP640 with a MS RACING Stage ll could brake 350 km/h. How fast could a GTT go ?

 

And can the engine of a GTT cope with hors of highspeed ?

 

I would REALLY like to know, I am not uninterested in a GTT... We need to test one under European conditions and driving habits.

 

Since you arrive first you can order.... and pay...

 

 

Even in Europe you have a hard time reaching 350km/h on the highways.Top speed is only academic bragging rights

Even in Europe you have a hard time reaching 350 km/h on the highways.Top speed is only academic bragging rights

 

 

I respect your general knowledge my friend but that is NOT true. I know of SEVERAL places where I can do it. Not long ago I did *335 km/h and I have past 330 km/h many many times. Time for a new visit to Europe ?

 

EDIT * A LP640 with MS Racing would have done 350 km/h.

 

 

But back to the original question, how fast can a GTT go ?

I respect your general knowledge my friend but that is NOT true. I know of SEVERAL places where I can do it. Not long ago I did *335 km/h and I have past 330 km/h many many times. Time for a new visit to Europe ?

 

EDIT * A LP640 with MS Racing would have done 350 km/h.

 

 

But back to the original question, how fast can a GTT go ?

Let not go crazy my bodygaurding friend... It is Known FACT that the Murcielago speedo is WAY off... to the tune of 10% or more! So your 335kmh....equals 301.5kmh or slower.... equals 187mph.

 

As for how fast a Gallardo TT will go. Mr Vrooms GTT for Car and driver hit 201mph from a dead stop in under 1 mile. In comparison, a Murcielago with exhaust took 2 miles from a standing start to hit 190mph.

They need to build an autobahn here in the USA

 

Aaron

 

Rods and Pistons are forged, eventually you are going to get to the limits of the crank, which will probably almost double the price of the TT upgrade. Other cars, making the same horsepower, with 1/3rd the cylinders using billett crankshafts are costing $5,000 to $10,000. So factor in the price of a Gallardo Billett crank and were talking $20-$30,000 for the simple fact of R&D and being a one off deal.

 

Its not so much the Horsepower going to be breaking the cranks as it is people turning the boost up more and more, and not having it tuned correctly, they will start breaking on the dyno first, something will fail, injectors etc and one will break, causing a lean condition which will make an engine that can handle 1500 HP come flying apart with half that. I do however see the engine being able to make alot more power, its not even stroked yet, and your pulling 1000+ hp out of them. It wont be long before someone puts a methanol kit on one of these and cranks the boost up to 40PSI.

 

You should easily be able to add 10-15% more power from one under the same boost with less lag with it stroked, but again, when someone sinks the money to have a crank built then you will see the real power potential of this engine. I don't see the rods and pistons being a problem as much as I see the crank, There are several 4 cylinders out there making 1400 HP. I see 1200-1300 horsepower from the motor without a sweat. But whats the limit of the crank? You might be right on top of it now, you never know. When the motors are coming out are the cranks being shot peened and polished?

As for how fast a Gallardo TT will go. Mr Vrooms GTT for Car and driver hit 201mph from a dead stop in under 1 mile. In comparison, a Murcielago with exhaust took 2 miles from a standing start to hit 190mph.

Damn, is that really true?!

 

 

GTT

Somebody answer lime, I would love to know the answer to that question???

Apparently the UGR car is for sale on Ebay...

Limegrntln, I believe the crank can handle more power. My guess is about 1500HP without issue. The factory crank is a forged split journal design. Stroking the crank would weaken it substantially due to this design. Another problem with stroking the crank is the physical space in the block....There isn't any room. These cranks get a significant heat treat at the factory, and are very hard on the surface. I don't know the rockwell hardness number, but my guess is somewhere around 58C. Due to a turbo's gradual ramping (as opposed to the sudden jolt of nitrous for instance) it is much easier on parts. There are quite a few 4.6L Modular Fords, 5.4L Fords, and Vipers running around with stock forged cranks making anywhere from 1200-1900hp.

They need to build an autobahn here in the USA

 

Aaron[/quote

 

 

You should bring one of your cars over here!

They need to build an autobahn here in the USA

 

Aaron

 

You should bring one of your cars over here.

And can the engine of a GTT cope with hors of highspeed ?

 

I would REALLY like to know, I am not uninterested in a GTT... We need to test one under European conditions and driving habits.

 

At the Car and Driver shootout I hit the brakes at 325 km/h, but had a little left because the objective was 200mph, so my car probably could have hit 330km/h.

 

To maintain 200 mph in a Gallardo on a strait/level road, only requires around 550 engine hp, so if you had the balls to maintain that speed for hours and hours, you would be cruising at only a little over HALF throttle!! In reality you Euro guys would be babying the TTG on the autobahn.

 

The real test of a TTG is flat out acceleration runs(at 100% power!!), which I have done plenty of, so has Wayne, Monarchy, Aaron, Allan, Ripper, and all of the other TTG owners.

Limegrntln, I believe the crank can handle more power. My guess is about 1500HP without issue. The factory crank is a forged split journal design. Stroking the crank would weaken it substantially due to this design. Another problem with stroking the crank is the physical space in the block....There isn't any room. These cranks get a significant heat treat at the factory, and are very hard on the surface. I don't know the rockwell hardness number, but my guess is somewhere around 58C. Due to a turbo's gradual ramping (as opposed to the sudden jolt of nitrous for instance) it is much easier on parts. There are quite a few 4.6L Modular Fords, 5.4L Fords, and Vipers running around with stock forged cranks making anywhere from 1200-1900hp.

 

All in all though, 1500 is an educated guess, correct? Like you said though may be 1900 may be 1300. As for stroking, I was talking more about going with a billet stroker crank 92.80 being stock stroke and going to 95 or even 100MM crank, and going with shorter rods and different rod, piston combination's.

 

Or is the engine optimized already from where you see it? With the stock bore being 82.50 mm. Looking at the LP560 where the bore increased to 84.5 mm bore. which brings you from 4961cc to 5204 cc, but what you are saying more or less is that there isn't any room in the Gallardo block to go larger on the crank? say to a 95mm or larger crank?

 

I for one haven't seen the Gallardo engine in pieces, so that's why Im also asking this question, can the motor get any bigger by playing with the ratios? Bigger crank shorter rods and larger pistons? I dont think anyone is sticking to the 12:1 compression when going TT with these cars, what compression ratio seems to work well with the TT conversion?

 

What 4 cylinder engines are making over 1000hp?!?!

What 4 cylinder engines are making over 1000hp?!?!

 

how about 4000HP...

 

 

http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/0202tur_...egra/index.html

All in all though, 1500 is an educated guess, correct? Like you said though may be 1900 may be 1300. As for stroking, I was talking more about going with a billet stroker crank 92.80 being stock stroke and going to 95 or even 100MM crank, and going with shorter rods and different rod, piston combination's.

 

Or is the engine optimized already from where you see it? With the stock bore being 82.50 mm. Looking at the LP560 where the bore increased to 84.5 mm bore. which brings you from 4961cc to 5204 cc, but what you are saying more or less is that there isn't any room in the Gallardo block to go larger on the crank? say to a 95mm or larger crank?

 

I for one haven't seen the Gallardo engine in pieces, so that's why Im also asking this question, can the motor get any bigger by playing with the ratios? Bigger crank shorter rods and larger pistons? I dont think anyone is sticking to the 12:1 compression when going TT with these cars, what compression ratio seems to work well with the TT conversion?

The bore size would be more beneficial than the stroke. The increase in bore equates to .078" of an inch. Opening the bore is always the preferred method for increased breathing capability at high rpm, and since the G spins 8000+, that's the way I'd go. I don't believe there would be sufficient room for the 100mm crank, because that's an increase of .283" of an inch in stroke. There is already con rod relief from the factory in the block. The increase in stroke would also decrease the rod length by .141" of an inch. That doesn't sound like much, but it kills the rod to stroke ratio. Couple that with increased thrust loading of the piston, less support at the bottom of the cylinder because of notching, and increased piston speed and you're asking for a fair decrease in service life for the reciprocating parts. Plus, there's the issue of crank deflection given the lack of overlap in the crank journals, which decreases the strength of the crank. The 95mm crank is feasable, but gives .083" of an inch of stroke, might pick up a little torque down low, but these cars are traction limited now. As for the compression ratio, I will only say it's lower.

The bore size would be more beneficial than the stroke. The increase in bore equates to .078" of an inch. Opening the bore is always the preferred method for increased breathing capability at high rpm, and since the G spins 8000+, that's the way I'd go. I don't believe there would be sufficient room for the 100mm crank, because that's an increase of .283" of an inch in stroke. There is already con rod relief from the factory in the block. The increase in stroke would also decrease the rod length by .141" of an inch. That doesn't sound like much, but it kills the rod to stroke ratio. Couple that with increased thrust loading of the piston, less support at the bottom of the cylinder because of notching, and increased piston speed and you're asking for a fair decrease in service life for the reciprocating parts. Plus, there's the issue of crank deflection given the lack of overlap in the crank journals, which decreases the strength of the crank. The 95mm crank is feasable, but gives .083" of an inch of stroke, might pick up a little torque down low, but these cars are traction limited now. As for the compression ratio, I will only say it's lower.

 

 

Perfect I totally understand, thats the exact explanation I needed, so the rod and stroke combinations are in good standing and there is no benefit from going larger on the crank, and I totally understand about the increased thrust load of the piston on the cylinder walls, and less support a the bottom of the cylinder walls, the shorter you go on the rods and the larger you go on the crank the further in the cylinder the piston is going travel. So the only place to really go with this is with a bigger bore, so my only question now is, and I know most everyones stock blocks dont allow for a ton of room when it comes to boring, so its the LP560 bore configuration at 5.2 liters as big or close to as big as you can go with these?

 

I also want to thank you for explaining this to me, I dont have a chance to see a Gallardo engine cracked up everyday, or most of the questions I could have answered myself with a set of stock rods and dial calipers and a few minutes to look at the block. I thank you

 

And as for the 4 Cylinders making a ton of horsepower, I wasnt even talking about 4000 I was only going with 1200-1500

 

Brent Rau 4G63 powered 4 cylinder 2.0 Liter. (1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse & Turbo motor)

 

 

door slammer

 

 

And of course all of the Lancer Evolutions have the 4G63, its a little different configuration but the same over all motor

 

 

Another door slammer

 

 

9s on pump, 9.11@ 154 street car

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWJA_M3xhbw

 

8.42@164 door slammer

 

The bore is about maxed with the lp560, I have yet to see one of these in person. The bore center is right at 88mm (3.465"), so with the 84.5mm (3.326") you are only looking at .139" between cylinders. That is not much! This leaves little to no room for sleeving and maintaining the integrity of the block. I think in this case it would prove stronger to hone the block and have it coated with Nikasil.

Your not looking at much room there at all, so its pretty much safe to say that there isnt alot that can be done with the engine per se. Its pretty much in its best configuration. Id like to read up on the internals of the engine more, to see how the intake and head work, but this is very good information. I thank you again Z1LE

Your not looking at much room there at all, so its pretty much safe to say that there isnt alot that can be done with the engine per se. Its pretty much in its best configuration. Id like to read up on the internals of the engine more, to see how the intake and head work, but this is very good information. I thank you again Z1LE

No problem, glad I could help.

I for one haven't seen the Gallardo engine in pieces, so that's why Im also asking this question, can the motor get any bigger by playing with the ratios? Bigger crank shorter rods and larger pistons? I dont think anyone is sticking to the 12:1 compression when going TT with these cars, what compression ratio seems to work well with the TT conversion?

 

 

Compression is dropped to 9:1

Compression is dropped to 9:1

 

 

I figured they werent running 12:1 with the TT, although I have run 10.5:1 on pump with no problems, good deal more on bottom end torque less lag. And again totally different car, engine, and configuration. I would figure with it at 9:1 you should be able to run a good amount of boost, on race gas or methanol (with the car converted for it of course).

 

Im curious what the trade off on these motors is going with 2 turbos versus 1 larger turbo. And what size turbos are going on the TTG.

congrats !! i agree TTing the G is the way to go.

Thanks for your kind comments Allan but I have to disagree of you thinking "merely a product of more boost" If you think that is all it takes give it a try and let me know how you make out. Our cars are built to run at that level of performance. They all are being configured to run 160mph+ if the owner chooses to do so. Let me assure you that it takes more than "just boost"

 

 

Thanks, Kevin

 

 

i would have to agree. its power under the curve. one major thing is that you would probably need larger injectors, like some bosch 46lbs or even bigger as heffner runs a 36lbs injector if i am correct. but i believe he does it for a reason that is that its enough fuel delivery for what he was going for. he's been learning the threshold of the cars capability as he goes. i dont believe he thought from the very get go the car would handle much more than 800whp and to some degree he was right. as people have experienced hlfshaft issues. but being the pioneer to this particular development has allowed even you to understand and find out what can or cannot be improved like a better configuration. you have done an amazing job, and with the help of heffners first builds which you studied before building yours. like any competitor they are always out to out do their competition and so forth. so the battle never ends till one ruins its reputation with the most catestophic failure which would be to blow the engine. i doubt either of you can say your done and these are the fastiest gallardos you will build. i believe heff will play with turbos and and injectors for more fuel delivery and have cars that will do mid 9's as you will too, but when is too much. that is the big question, i believe UGR and Heffner are both questioning how much further they can go before tearing apart the tranny or blowing the block or bending rods. its a never ending battle as i assume both of you use carrilo rods and next will be a tranny and gearing guy like Holinger. those that know something about TT cars knows that either one of you guys can build better and faster gallardos. you have already set yourself up do so as you are running 59lbs injectors which is intended for alot of power and boost. i have the utmost respect for the times you have done 9seconds is awesome as i wanted to make sure we were at par with the 996tt guys, so its about time. good job. as i do for heffner doing the R&D to get you both where you are today. i am excited to see what comes out next from the 2 of you, but more than anything is keeping these cars reliable and practical as we all know either one of you could build a 1400whp plus cars. good luck as you guys have miles to go before you can say you've built the ultimate gallardo. so far so good, 25tt gallardos and none of which have blown a motor and have had over 16k miles on the systems.