R8 V10 vs. Lamborghini discussion

No mutual love huh?

 

It's still a fcuking Audi POS TT on steroids looking like apeshit with old owners wishing better comfort for their sore backs getting head by old fat women from Texas

 

Yep, tell it like is to this guy, I dare you PUSSY!

 

Forgive the lack of flow in this post. It's just some thoughts/comments on the subject.

 

If 'leagues' are defined solely by brand names, which they certainly seem to be, then perhaps. I still don't think the R8 falls victim to this though. As I said, most people have no clue what it is, even with the Audi insignia clearly visible on both ends. If the transmissions on the G and R8 were visible from the outside, surely they would be held in the same light In fact, the attention that these cars get is unreal. Like Vroom said, it get's just as much, if not more attention than the G.

 

I was talking to my friend's brother a few weeks ago, who is from Finland. He's into cars, though doesn't drive anything near exotic. He mentioned that he has sees Lamborghinis and Ferraris in Helsinki, but had only ever seen one R8. Notice that he said 'R8' and not 'Audi,' and that he said 'Lamborghinis and Ferraris,' not 'Porsches and BMW's." If he perceives these to be on the same level, isn't it very possible that many others do as well? And isn't he really the best judge of this? He's middle-class; exactly the people brand snobs are so concerned with.

 

I really think you can best define where these cars stand by looking at what the owners have/had/considered. I think you will find that most of them have/had/considered Gallardos and 997TT's. F430's not so much, AM isn't in the same segment, and everything else is too common. Maybe I'm forgetting something, but whatever. One person approached me, a doctor, and asked about it. He said he was looking for a new car and was thinking about an R8 or a used Gallardo. This seems to fit the bill.

 

Now, I'd say that most people considering new 997TT's and used Gallardo, did so strictly from a price stand point. Not that they couldn't afford an extra 50-100K, but probably that they didn't want to spend it.

 

With prices between the two now overlapping, the fact that R8's are selling and Gallardos are sitting is very telling. Performance aside, I think we can all agree that the 2004 G isn't terrible different than the LP560. It's a great refresh, but it's still a G at heart. So the question now becomes, why aren't people buying the car from the 'league' above? One could argue that people want new cars more than used ones, but there are a TON of 'used' G's out there with only a few months worth of miles on them (0-5K mi Spyders anyone?) The higher mileage G's may be more susceptible to problems, but not 30-40K worth.

 

 

Well, look at this way, unknowing people would come up to my NSX and go crazy for it, thinking it was a ferrari. Once Id tell them it was an Acura.. you could just see the smiles wipe away from their faces.. Inmo, the R8 is an Ok car. here in LA., NO ONE considers it on the level of a Gallardo, F430 or 997TT. Its just a nice Audi.. a step up from a TT.

Yep, tell it like is to this guy, I dare you PUSSY!

 

fcuk Rampage! He is a has-been and a typical R8 owner!

The R8 is a fine car in my opinion..a little under powered but

 

still a well made decent package.

 

Dinero permitting I'll be getting the first v-10 from my dealer. I'll jhave to get a different color than my wifes..

 

If it goes to Heffner I'll cut some type of deal on future modded v-10's.....I didn't do it on the Gallardo....

 

+1

 

 

18 years ago (maybe) it was on the same level but the selection of cars then was peanuts compared to what it is today.

 

R8 is cute, great car for the wife!

A lot of you think people will prefer the brand Lamborghini over Audi, and in general that might be true, but based on the current V8 R8's hype, it seems painfully obvious that there are enough people who see Audi as a better proposition as an owner.

 

 

-You can service it at any Audi dealer

 

-It is not as "in-your-face" as a Gallardo, but still has presence.

 

-Some people may feel pretentious in a Lambo. Audi might be easier for them to identify with. Not everyone wants to answer, "Lambo" when asked what it is they drive. This might alter the type of pussy you receive

 

-Perhaps lower insurance premiums? Not sure on this.

 

- Probably can park it in more places without worrying

 

 

 

In my mind there's no doubt Lamborghini is THE brand, but to not understand why some owners would prefer an R8 is very narrow minded. It clearly has some advantages. For outright performance, it's Lambo all the way. I can't think of a better car than an LP560-4.

 

 

A lot of you think people will prefer the brand Lamborghini over Audi, and in general that might be true, but based on the current V8 R8's hype, it seems painfully obvious that there are enough people who see Audi as a better proposition as an owner.

 

 

-You can service it at any Audi dealer

 

-It is not as "in-your-face" as a Gallardo, but still has presence.

 

-Some people may feel pretentious in a Lambo. Audi might be easier for them to identify with. Not everyone wants to answer, "Lambo" when asked what it is they drive. This might alter the type of pussy you receive

 

-Perhaps lower insurance premiums? Not sure on this.

 

- Probably can park it in more places without worrying

 

 

 

In my mind there's no doubt Lamborghini is THE brand, but to not understand why some owners would prefer an R8 is very narrow minded. It clearly has some advantages. For outright performance, it's Lambo all the way. I can't think of a better car than an LP560-4.

 

Yeah, there's a point here....

 

The Lambo's panache is undeniable, but there are still a good # of people in this world that actually don't care about the over the top image of a Lambo (at least post-Miura). People forget it takes a certain level of extrovert to be a Lambo owner.

 

But still, it amazes me that an R8 exists at all to begin with. Even if the Lambo is not an alternative, there's the other big boy brands that certainly are for people. Not hating on the car, but that's the reality of it.

 

It will make a fine buy 5 years from now, probably.

 

BTW, this whole post is written with the USA in mind. In Europe and Japan, I believe brand snobbery is almost non existent...

 

The audi will never cannibalize sales from the Lambo. First and foremost when people spend money, they want the NAME. Audi or Lambo? Which would you rather have? Second... The lambo is far better looking, performing etc.

 

a good example of a similar situation is the Vw Pheaton (sp) and the Bentley Gt. Both are essentially the same car. The VW FLOPPED.

 

The Audi A8 killed the Pheaton as well

If for a moment we leave the performance aspect of the R8 V10 out of the equation (because I do in fact believe it will be a very capable car) and focus on perception, I will say this:

 

I've owned both an R8 and an LP560. In terms of public wow factor, the R8 certainly gets attention... until the Lamborghini in whatever iteration pulls up beside it. Then it disappears.

 

People buying these R8s - either in V8 or V10 versions - I do not feel will be cross-shopping Lamborghinis. They will be cross-shopping "tamer" exotics such as Porsches, Aston Martins, and well, that might very well be it.

If for a moment we leave the performance aspect of the R8 V10 out of the equation (because I do in fact believe it will be a very capable car) and focus on perception, I will say this:

 

I've owned both an R8 and an LP560. In terms of public wow factor, the R8 certainly gets attention... until the Lamborghini in whatever iteration pulls up beside it. Then it disappears.

 

People buying these R8s - either in V8 or V10 versions - I do not feel will be cross-shopping Lamborghinis. They will be cross-shopping "tamer" exotics such as Porsches, Aston Martins, and well, that might very well be it.

 

On the contrary. Ask many R8 owners what else they considered. You'll hear Gallardo and 99TT pretty often. I don't think many were considering new G's, but used around the $150K mark. You've owned both, so that would seem to imply that both piqued your interest. You obviously stuck with the LP, but nonetheless had both.

 

I see the consideration coming into play in the used market. If LP560 used prices fall to R8 V10 levels with relatively low miles, you'll see lots of cross-shopping, though more so in the way of R8 to LP. However, with the current difference in price of a new car fully optioned, I'd say that there is a lot of cross-shopping between used G to new R8.

On the contrary. Ask many R8 owners what else they considered. You'll hear Gallardo and 99TT pretty often. I don't think many were considering new G's, but used around the $150K mark. You've owned both, so that would seem to imply that both piqued your interest. You obviously stuck with the LP, but nonetheless had both.

 

I see the consideration coming into play in the used market. If LP560 used prices fall to R8 V10 levels with relatively low miles, you'll see lots of cross-shopping, though more so in the way of R8 to LP. However, with the current difference in price of a new car fully optioned, I'd say that there is a lot of cross-shopping between used G to new R8.

 

 

I don't need to ask other R8 owners what they considered - I was one. And when I got my LP560, it didn't replace the R8. It replaced the Murcielago. Totally different snack bracket.

 

You are certainly free to state your opinion however when I am the one cutting the check and am looking for something with balls and wild styling, my wallet is going to head towards a Lamborghini, not an Audi. I stand by my statement that the R8 is NOT going to cannibalize Lambo sales. Audi obviously agrees otherwise they wouldn't have done what they've done.

I don't need to ask other R8 owners what they considered - I was one. And when I got my LP560, it didn't replace the R8. It replaced the Murcielago. Totally different snack bracket.

 

You are certainly free to state your opinion however when I am the one cutting the check and am looking for something with balls and wild styling, my wallet is going to head towards a Lamborghini, not an Audi. I stand by my statement that the R8 is NOT going to cannibalize Lambo sales. Audi obviously agrees otherwise they wouldn't have done what they've done.

 

I think we are talking about two different types of sales.

 

I agree that it won't cannibalize Lamborghini sales, but I'm talking about new Lamborghini sales. Wouldn't you agree that Audi would very much love to sell new R8's instead? People swapping used Lamborghini does nothing for Lamborghini/Audi/VW/Porsche's bottom line. They need to sell new cars. I think that this is the play that they are trying to make with the R8 fitting where it does.

If for a moment we leave the performance aspect of the R8 V10 out of the equation (because I do in fact believe it will be a very capable car) and focus on perception, I will say this:

 

I've owned both an R8 and an LP560. In terms of public wow factor, the R8 certainly gets attention... until the Lamborghini in whatever iteration pulls up beside it. Then it disappears.

 

People buying these R8s - either in V8 or V10 versions - I do not feel will be cross-shopping Lamborghinis. They will be cross-shopping "tamer" exotics such as Porsches, Aston Martins, and well, that might very well be it.

 

 

I don't need to ask other R8 owners what they considered - I was one. And when I got my LP560, it didn't replace the R8. It replaced the Murcielago. Totally different snack bracket.

 

Porter for fcuking L-Power President!!!

Porter had the right quote about the R8 months ago: "Perfect girlfriend/wife car".

 

Absolutely. WAY too feminine for anyone to really consider in this group. It's no wonder Lauren Conrad from The Hills owns one, as do several female Hollywood C/D-Listers.

 

I'll never understand the appeal.

Porter had the right quote about the R8 months ago: "Perfect girlfriend/wife car".

 

Absolutely. WAY too feminine for anyone to really consider in this group. It's no wonder Lauren Conrad from The Hills owns one, as do several female Hollywood C/D-Listers.

 

I'll never understand the appeal.

 

I take it Lauren Conrad is part of those C/D listers, or is she a step above?

 

Mako, you'll never understand the appeal? A true diehard Lambo guy should not understand the appeal, IMO.

 

At least at MSRP.

I don't agree.

 

The 997TT is just as good as a Gallardo LP560, if not better - but it's still not in the same league or attract the same type of buyers that a Lambo does. Audi is not even in the same league, not even the same friggin sport!

For me the R8 is in the same category as the GTR, the BMW M3 and maybe, just maybe the 997 Carrera S - a non premium wannabe BMW/Mercedes type of car that has to brand itself as a offspring of a Lamborghini to even create a little hype, if any at all..

 

Audi in Europe is a poor mans BMW - not a friggin Lamborghini contendor, not by miles and leaps! I don't care how good it is (which I trust you on with all respect!) - it is still not anywhere near a Ferrari, Lambo or even Porsche TT or GT models!

 

But I still love you!

 

 

Agreed. Its all about taste and image. A 997tt buyer 'could' buy a G but probably wouldnt. But where does the R8 buyer fit in...as yet he doesnt really exist? Not a M3 crowd...way too much money. Not 911...they are die hard. Maybe GTR will be hit by this? G's only slightly I would imagine.

 

 

 

 

My friend, pull your head out of that Swedish snowbank for a second and listen up; the R8 and the Gallardo are two sides of the same coin. Audi designed and built both cars on the SAME platform, one in their German plant, the other in their Italian plant. So yes, if you deduct the snob appeal factor, they are in the same league. To make you happy, lets just call the R8 the bastard brother of the LP560!

 

In the US, the R8 is much rarer than a G, several thousand Gs vs 700 R8s. When I tested the V10 mule, I was shocked at the attention the car was getting; as much/more than my G. Personally I like the styling of the Gallardo better, but the general public(read young pussy) was all over the R8.

 

If you read the R8 reviews, the common denominator is how well the car performs in every category. In this sense it is different from our Gallardos(pre LP560), which are rougher around the edges/true sports cars. I drove the shit out of that R8, back and forth to work, all over the state, fast/slow and never got bored/tired or worn out. As for comfort features, on a weekend Miami trip, in the middle of Alligator Alley, I received the best high speed BJ ever, something I would not recommend you try with your SL, as it doesn't have the required magnetic damping system.

 

 

Do you wanna come for a ride in my 'Audi'....? Just not the same...however good it is.

 

 

 

 

The audi will never cannibalize sales from the Lambo. First and foremost when people spend money, they want the NAME. Audi or Lambo? Which would you rather have? Second... The lambo is far better looking, performing etc.

 

a good example of a similar situation is the Vw Pheaton (sp) and the Bentley Gt. Both are essentially the same car. The VW FLOPPED.

 

 

Agreed.

I think we are talking about two different types of sales.

 

I agree that it won't cannibalize Lamborghini sales, but I'm talking about new Lamborghini sales. Wouldn't you agree that Audi would very much love to sell new R8's instead? People swapping used Lamborghini does nothing for Lamborghini/Audi/VW/Porsche's bottom line. They need to sell new cars. I think that this is the play that they are trying to make with the R8 fitting where it does.

 

 

No, I gotcha the first time. Again, I do not feel the R8 will cannibalize new (or used) Lamborghini sales.

 

You know who the R8 appeals to? The guy that has been driving an XKR, or SL55/63, or especially the 911 in God knows how many iterations. It's that guy who wants to be seen in something unique without taking the dreadful and nerve-wracking step into true exotic territory - that where Ferrari and Lamborghini live.

 

That guy won't buy a Ferrari or Lambo because he fears big maintenance bills, he fears the neighbors will talk and think he is drug dealer, and he cannot even imagine driving an "obnoxious" orange or yellow car to work or to the mall with a straight face.

 

It's that guy who has been leasing his 911 Turbo who goes home to his wife and tells her he saw something unbelievable on the road, and that it's called an R8. And because it's an Audi and not a Lamborghini, the wife lets him get it because she knows Audis are reliable and the new lease payment isn't going to cut into their two young kids' private piano lesson budget.

 

One more thing - you know who else the R8 appeals to? That guy's WIFE. Because she actually can see herself driving it around town without having a heart attack out of fear of scratching it.

 

 

Now I might be wrong... but I don't think I am.

I'll move this to General for a bit and see if anyone gives a shit about what we're talking about.

No, I gotcha the first time. Again, I do not feel the R8 will cannibalize new (or used) Lamborghini sales.

 

You know who the R8 appeals to? The guy that has been driving an XKR, or SL55/63, or especially the 911 in God knows how many iterations. It's that guy who wants to be seen in something unique without taking the dreadful and nerve-wracking step into true exotic territory - that where Ferrari and Lamborghini live.

 

That guy won't buy a Ferrari or Lambo because he fears big maintenance bills, he fears the neighbors will talk and think he is drug dealer, and he cannot even imagine driving an "obnoxious" orange or yellow car to work or to the mall with a straight face.

 

It's that guy who has been leasing his 911 Turbo who goes home to his wife and tells her he saw something unbelievable on the road, and that it's called an R8. And because it's an Audi and not a Lamborghini, the wife lets him get it because she knows Audis are reliable and the new lease payment isn't going to cut into their two young kids' private piano lesson budget.

 

One more thing - you know who else the R8 appeals to? That guy's WIFE. Because she actually can see herself driving it around town without having a heart attack out of fear of scratching it.

 

 

Now I might be wrong... but I don't think I am.

I think you're right.

So much reason in this thread...From both sides of the argument. Mr.Vroom makes some great arguments and from a perspective of someone who has had some time behind the wheel its very persuasive to hear the owner of a TT G speak so highly of a car.

For me not being a owner,I guess as a fan it simply comes down to the looks department for me since the specs and numbers are so close.

The Audi is a attractive but I think sitting next to a bright orange or green G it would get over looked like a fat chick at a pool party. And for some people,maybe keeping the slightly lower profile is what there looking for.

No, I gotcha the first time. Again, I do not feel the R8 will cannibalize new (or used) Lamborghini sales.

 

You know who the R8 appeals to? The guy that has been driving an XKR, or SL55/63, or especially the 911 in God knows how many iterations. It's that guy who wants to be seen in something unique without taking the dreadful and nerve-wracking step into true exotic territory - that where Ferrari and Lamborghini live.

 

That guy won't buy a Ferrari or Lambo because he fears big maintenance bills, he fears the neighbors will talk and think he is drug dealer, and he cannot even imagine driving an "obnoxious" orange or yellow car to work or to the mall with a straight face.

 

It's that guy who has been leasing his 911 Turbo who goes home to his wife and tells her he saw something unbelievable on the road, and that it's called an R8. And because it's an Audi and not a Lamborghini, the wife lets him get it because she knows Audis are reliable and the new lease payment isn't going to cut into their two young kids' private piano lesson budget.

 

One more thing - you know who else the R8 appeals to? That guy's WIFE. Because she actually can see herself driving it around town without having a heart attack out of fear of scratching it.

 

 

Now I might be wrong... but I don't think I am.

Very well said...

But where does the R8 buyer fit in...as yet he doesnt really exist? Not a M3 crowd...way too much money. Not 911...they are die hard. Maybe GTR will be hit by this? G's only slightly I would imagine.

 

I think the target for the R8 is squarely aimed at the Mercedes Benz SL and Porsche 911 market with the V10 going after AMG and Porsche Turbo.

 

Audi has come a long way in terms of driver satisfaction. It used to be a very reliable but mundane car. But all this started to change very obviously in mid 2007. They seem now to be focusing a lot on performance and handling as well. I was in Germany last November and rented an Audi A4 2.0TDi. I didn't even know it was a diesel. It had power on tap without the clatter. I passed everything in sight so effortlessly on the Autobahn and was pacing 911s; of course all below 250kmh. Autobahns are now so congested. The car felt planted and had very good feel. I also noticed from Frankfurt to and into Stuttgart, there were more newer Audi than BMW or Merc. Even around Merc plant there were more Audi on the road.

 

Yes, the US of A consumes a lot of cars from around the world. But Audi depends on Europe and Asia much more for their sales. Over in Germany, Porsche is not that high up on a pedestal. Heck, I even remember seeing a Porsche towing a U-Haul in Germany many years back. They are everyday cars to the Germans. And the R8, with its curves and understated style, fits into that German psyche perfectly.

 

Yes, the R8 will steal some thunder from the Gallardo. But it's like comparing a SL63 to a SL65. People I've spoken to in Audi and Lamborghini have all quietly been preparing, positively or otherwise, for this transfer of technology ever since the Gallardo hit the streets. As a driver, pick the R8 V10 and save loads of cash. If you want to make a statement, pick the LP560-4.

 

Personally, I am waiting to see if the R8 convertible will make me forget the forgettable bulbous blob of an enlarged TT that its body is. Yucks!

I'll move this to General for a bit and see if anyone gives a shit about what we're talking about.

 

Yes Sir! I give a shit. Thanks so much for moving it here.

 

It's sad that they couldn't move the differentiation further apart. Perhaps move the LP560-4 0-100kmh to 3.2 sec and the LP640 to 3sec with its replacement in sub 3sec. Audi is really maxing out their investment in Lamborghini with all this technology transfer. Maybe they are preparing to hive off Lamborghini with a huge profit after this.

It's sad that they couldn't move the differentiation further apart. Perhaps move the LP560-4 0-100kmh to 3.2 sec and the LP640 to 3sec with its replacement in sub 3sec.

 

 

Keep in mind that it's much easier for a runner to go from a 5 minute mile to a 4, versus improving from a 4 minute mile to a 3.

 

Likewise, at the top of the curve, we're going to see a lot more high end performance vehicles begin to cluster between 3 and 4 seconds, and it's getting crowded there already. The 0-60 differentiation is going to decrease rather than increase.

I just picked up an R8 a little under a month ago and I love it. I use it as my daily driver and it was a tough decision between the R8 and G-Car but in the end the R8 won because of its role as a daily driver. I had the dealer throw on some sottozeros and it has been dealing with the snow in here in the NE like a champ. I loved it so much I went it last week and orderd the v10 and will give this to the wife. I still have the LP640, it's nice and warm in the garage with the battery tender hooked up to it. Here are a couple of pictures of the R8.