question on changing tire brand - wondering what you guys think?

I know people who run Hankook tires on the Gallardo for thousands of miles and see no problems at all. So I can't imagine the Michelin's would be any different.

Thanks everyone for the comments/advice.

 

The MPSS are staying. They are the exact same rolling circumference as the PZeroCorsas so in theory there should not be a problem.

 

We put them on just before our trip (1500 miles in a week) and they were great, especially on wet roads. I'll also put them on the 3 series xdrive wagon next summer (I bought Michelin Alpin A3 for winter which will be mounted soon), and the zeeoooossixx will get a fresh set of MPSS next spring when it comes out of winter storage.

 

 

 

 

The tech said this is a bad move. He explained in detail the viscous coupler (essentially like a wet clutch) works on a signal from the computer (CAN) to put more torque to the front wheels.

 

It may not be off much - but even a small difference in rolling circumference measurement will be multiplied exponentially at highway speeds and dramatically increase the signals received by the viscous coupler.

 

His point: if the CAN sends a signal to put torque to the front wheels at "X" times at "X" mph - if the rolling circumference is off (or out of measured tolerance for how the system was homologated) - it may send many more signals and prematurely burn out the viscous coupler. They have documented cases of problems that disappeared when tires were changed and they think it points to differences in rolling circumference.

 

This guy is passionate and extremely knowledgeable about Italian cars and has an obvious love for all thing automotive. He is hands on and learns by taking stuff apart (he is not just book smart but has tons or real world tech experience on lambos especially but other italian brands too). He has nothing to sell and could care less about the Pirelli brand. His main concern seemed to be for us not to screw up our car - and he recommended we ditch the MPSS and go back to Pirelli.

 

The guy may be passionate about Italian cars, but I'm questioning the extremely knowledgeable part.

 

If the G has a viscous coupling differential to route power to the front or rear axles, then it's a passive system and not an active system that is computer controlled. This link explains how a viscous coupler works better better than I can: http://www.awdwiki.com/en/viscous+coupling/

 

From what I can tell, the G AWD system starts out with power routed 30% front and 70% rear. If this is the case, then the front axle and rear axle are already turning at different rates to get the silicone fluid to heat up and become partially viscous already. What this means is, at some point in life, the AWD diff will wear out normally.

 

The only thing computer controlled about the viscous system may be temperature sensor to notify the driver that the viscous coupler and/or the silicone fluid is overheating, which would indicate drastically incorrect tire sizes to maintain the 30% front and 70% rear power ratio, or the viscous coupler is just worn out.

 

The Pirelli's are actually a good tire. They have a treadwear of 160 which means they are very grippy, but won't last very long. The Michelin's have a tread wear of 300 which aren't as sticky but they last longer. The overall sizes are the same, so anyone saying a specific tire brand is the only tire that will work with the car is wrong.

 

For me I think the value of the MPSS tires is amazing. With different road textures on the street I think they are probably the better overall tire especially in wet conditions. They are what I will be going with in the future.

 

If you want a really sticky tire go with the Michelin Sport Cup tires. They have a tread wear of 80.. Very Very sticky tires, but they won't last worth a shit on the street.

As well, being someone who had a front diff wear out with a car that always ran the OE tire, I think the sticky tires (160tread wear) will wear out the diff quicker than the less sticky tires (300 tread wear). My opinion, but I would imagine the drag on the diff through the tires would be worse on the Pirelli's.

If you believe this, then you must also believe:

1. This AWD system was designed around these tires (if it is indeed that sensitive)

2. This is the most sensitive system ever installed on a modern production vehicle.

3. Lambo made the risk that this tire would be produced identically and without interruption for 10 years.

 

 

Rediculous.

 

This guy knows what he is talking about. Don't let the scary Pirelli's push you into buying them....The Michelin offerings are better in my opinion. I prefer the Pilot Sport Cups as I'd rather have as much grip as possible and could care less about replacing some tires rather than compromise grip. If it was a truck and not a sports car then I would care about the wear rating.

 

With that said the Michelin Super Sport tires are the best all around tire I've seen. They were really predictable when Michelin let me test them out back in 2010 or 2011.

This guy knows what he is talking about. Don't let the scary Pirelli's push you into buying them....The Michelin offerings are better in my opinion. I prefer the Pilot Sport Cups as I'd rather have as much grip as possible and could care less about replacing some tires rather than compromise grip. If it was a truck and not a sports car then I would care about the wear rating.

 

With that said the Michelin Super Sport tires are the best all around tire I've seen. They were really predictable when Michelin let me test them out back in 2010 or 2011.

 

 

I am currently running Bridgestones (Wear rating 140) and absolutely love them. Previously I have run Corsas and Rossos. I have a friend currently running the Michelin's on his GSL while he likes them, he says they are sensitive to pressure adjustments, he said he will probably go back to Pirellis.

If going with a different brand was such a big deal, you'd see all the TT Gallardo owners complaining due to the fact that they usually run Toyo R888's when they want to hook. If anything would bring up shortcomings in a drivetrain, it would be 4-digit horsepower. Stick with the MPSS. I have them on my Panamera and Ruf RT12. Great tire.

Thanks everyone for the comments.

 

Yeah...we love the MPSS and are keeping them. After a season of tracking the zeeoooosixxx with the MPSS - they deliver amazing performance on track and street and are the best compromise yet. I am not interested in running slicks on the track, and the MPSS are far superior to the PZeroCorsas IMO. The Corsas are super sticky but soft and didn't wear well. Pretty sure the tread wear rating of the Corsas is 60 - no wonder they chunked and wore out so quickly.

 

What is surprising is the MPSS (treadwear = 300) wore extremely well but provided amazing traction. The multi-compound is a winner.

 

Not sure if they are available in a size that will fit our CL550-4 but if they are - we'll have four cars with MPSS for summer driving.

I could have sworn that there is no electrical or computer input to the viscous coupler.

 

I'd really have to look at it, but I don't remember seeing any harness up there. The only thing that USED to be there was a temperature sensor for the front diff fluid, but they eliminated that in 09.

 

EXACTLY my point.

Some people just like to complicate things.

Thats the whole point of viscous coupling to alleviate differences in road speed from left to right and front to rear and also helps with differences in tyre rolling circumferences, ie when the front tyres have less tread than the rear or even left to right in some cases.

10mm over an 11 inches wide tyre?

Thats like 8mm tread over barely legal 2mm tread, not an issue at all, if it was ALL manufacturers would have a warning stating so.

 

Keep your tire diameter within the factory threshold and you're good with any tire you desire.

 

I met a Lambo corporate guy who trains the Lambo techs.

 

This is why he said that, manufacturers don't like modifications.

I cannot stand Pirellis, i think they are overpriced and overall a very shitty tire for the street. They don't last and tramline like crazy. I believe the MPSS is an awesome tire, have them on all my cars. There is no issue whatsoever changing tire brands on any car , especially an AWD car as long as one sticks to the same dimensions as OEM

I've ran MPSS on my 570. Zero issues.

I cannot stand Pirellis, i think they are overpriced and overall a very shitty tire for the street. They don't last and tramline like crazy. I believe the MPSS is an awesome tire, have them on all my cars. There is no issue whatsoever changing tire brands on any car , especially an AWD car as long as one sticks to the same dimensions as OEM

+1 and we also had them on all cars (except GT4's). Pirelli's chunked TERRIBLY and we were doing everything right. MPSS wear much better, have wonderful grip for street tires and are still decent for track (if you want).

 

As long as rolling circumference is within range you should be good.

 

+1 and we also had them on all cars (except GT4's). Pirelli's chunked TERRIBLY and we were doing everything right. MPSS wear much better, have wonderful grip for street tires and are still decent for track (if you want).

 

As long as rolling circumference is within range you should be good.

 

This is exactly what I found - on my LP560, the OEM Pirellis chunked MASSIVELY on the track - it was actually alarming. I switched over to MPSS, had ZERO issues, and found them to be an amazing tire - wear extremely well, worked fantastically well on the street, and for my limited track use, they were perfect.

 

I had a picture of the shoulder chunking on the Pirellis somewhere - I'll see if I can find it.

This is exactly what I found - on my LP560, the OEM Pirellis chunked MASSIVELY on the track - it was actually alarming. I switched over to MPSS, had ZERO issues, and found them to be an amazing tire - wear extremely well, worked fantastically well on the street, and for my limited track use, they were perfect.

 

I had a picture of the shoulder chunking on the Pirellis somewhere - I'll see if I can find it.

Yes - we went through three sets of PZeroCorsas on the LP560 in one season with chunking. Pirelli techs were at the second track event and they had their pyrometer and tested the tires.

 

We were doing all the right things by adjusting temps. They told us to buy a pyrometer (we did). I would take 12 measurements after every session (outside, center, inside) of each tire. Adjust so the temps were very close across the contact patch. Didn't matter - they chunked anyway.

 

Pirelli said there was nothing wrong with the tires and wouldn't stand behind them so we switched to MPSS and had spectacular performance on the LP560, the C6 Plastic mess-06, and Cayman R. Plus they are summer tires on my BMW wagon. I don't think they were available in the right size for the Panamera although maybe by the time that car needs new tires we can put MPSS on. We'll see.

 

Once I burn up the Dunlops on the GT4 I will try MPSC2 since that's the OEM tire and grip is reported to be significantly better than MPSS for track, although the Cup2 won't last nearly as long and will be a lot worse in the wet than the MPSS. But it's a track beast and I want to try the grippier tires to have the experience.

 

But you can't go wrong with MPSS for the compromise of street and track. And just as with any performance tire they are not recommended for cold temps. They'll turn quite hard and lose a fair amount of grip.

MPSS tires last anywhere between 25000 to 27000km on my SLR, that is a car with 605lbs /ft of torque. Try getting more than 3000km out of a set of Pzero whatevers at twice the price.

Lamborghini = italian, Pirelli = italian.

"Hey would you want to partner up with coming up with new product?" -either one

"Yeah, sure but btw we would do it free of cost if you promise to help with future sales towards our brand" -either one

"For sure, lets do this" -either one

 

Michelin Pilot Sports 2 or Super Sport are amazing tire, no matter what application.

All sports tyres start to struggle when air temp goes to singledigit Celsius and there is high humidity.

But better tyres are still better.

 

I would be cautious in very high top speed machines to use only the suggested OEM tire.

For ex. Veyron, Koenigsegg, McLaren F1, Jaguar XJ220 etc.

Also wise in old applications which have very specialty tire, for ex. Countach.

 

You will not regret the switch to Michelin. It will change the way the car rides, and has all the performance with better wear characteristics. The Pirelli is a super sticky tire, but seems to grenade itself regarding wear.

Lamborghini = italian, Pirelli = italian.

"Hey would you want to partner up with coming up with new product?" -either one

"Yeah, sure but btw we would do it free of cost if you promise to help with future sales towards our brand" -either one

"For sure, lets do this" -either one

 

Michelin Pilot Sports 2 or Super Sport are amazing tire, no matter what application.

All sports tyres start to struggle when air temp goes to singledigit Celsius and there is high humidity.

But better tyres are still better.

 

I would be cautious in very high top speed machines to use only the suggested OEM tire.

For ex. Veyron, Koenigsegg, McLaren F1, Jaguar XJ220 etc.

Also wise in old applications which have very specialty tire, for ex. Countach.

Good tought

If you don't frequently drive in heavy rain, snow or extreme cold and like to drive aggressively, consider R888. That's next in line for my LP640, the tire transformed my Viper.

You will not regret the switch to Michelin. It will change the way the car rides, and has all the performance with better wear characteristics. The Pirelli is a super sticky tire, but seems to grenade itself regarding wear.

 

This. I once tried Pirelli, never went back. Shit tire.

 

All. The. Way.

 

As long as the tire size is correct, I don't see an issue. Sounds crazy to me.