Things are getting crazy in Kiev

I've been listening to some Indy news lately and one guy interviewed on there is suggesting Putin is being aggressive because of the relationship countries like Poland and Ukraine have with NATO and how that comes off as threatening to Russia.

 

It's a new take on this situation, and considering how recent this aggression is, bears some validity IMHO. Neither FOX nor the left wing news channels have said anything about this.

 

http://www.democracynow.org/2014/9/3/fmr_u...resolve_ukraine

 

 

I've been listening to some Indy news lately and one guy interviewed on there is suggesting Putin is being aggressive because of the relationship countries like Poland and Ukraine have with NATO and how that comes off as threatening to Russia.

 

Was speaking to a former Foreign Service Officer in the State Dept who was stationed in Moscow for 2 years and he said the same thing. Russians are worried about the west creeping up on their borders, we have to look at this from their perspective in order to understand the motivation. Although it doesn't help that Russia only has one privately run news station.

 

The area around Kiev is considered to be the birthplace of the Russian people; I would compare it to having Boston a part of another country. The word Украина, Ukraine, literally means "on the border". The "border" that a fair amount of Russians would refer to is the western border of the Ukraine, the proper ending border of Russia in their minds. Russians are a proud people who consider NATO and the EU's expansion east to be a threat to their security. The Ukraine is also a flat land that holds many oil pipelines that run to European countries, many of the pipelines ending up in Germany (although they are moving their dependencies off of Ukranian/Russian oil). This gives an economic incentive for Russia to hold those pipelines.

 

I don't think that Putin is trying to recreate the Soviet Union, although he's gone on record saying that the end of the Soviet Union was the "greatest geopolitical tragedy of the 20th century". He knows that the west wouldn't allow another Soviet Union; however, I think he's trying to play on the anxieties of the Russian people, the anxiety that the West is trying to push Russia back into the stone age through sanctions and the movement of the EU and NATO further east. It's a grab for the heart of the Russian people and their national and ethnic pride. What his end goal is, I am not sure, but I do not think it is to create another Soviet Union.

 

If we really want to see some fireworks and paranoid Russians, have Finland join NATO and the EU.

 

This thread seems a bit one sided, it's important to see both perspectives. The situation with Russia is much more complicated than Putin just being a jackass.

This thread seems a bit one sided, it's important to see both perspectives. The situation with Russia is much more complicated than Putin just being a jackass.

 

I don't think anyone is claiming that the Russian people are evil, but they are a good deal brainwashed due to limited knowledge of history (Lenin wasn't a good guy) and limited knowledge of the world because of the Russian propaganda machine that controls the media there. Putin is the one doing the bad things and manipulating the Russian people.

No country has to worry about the U.S. bullying it or stealing its resources or anything like that.

Ohhh Wheels.........

So 2 days into the ceasefire, heavy fighting is ongoing... So much for that.

Ohhh Wheels.........

 

Who does the U.S. bully and steal resources from?

I don't think anyone is claiming that the Russian people are evil, but they are a good deal brainwashed due to limited knowledge of history (Lenin wasn't a good guy) and limited knowledge of the world because of the Russian propaganda machine that controls the media there. Putin is the one doing the bad things and manipulating the Russian people.

 

You still have to try and figure out Putin's concerns/viewpoint.

 

I firmly believe all world leaders, even the aggressive dictators have valid viewpoints that should be acknowledged.

 

Nobody seems to care why Putin is doing this from the viewpoint that he's upset/worried about something. It's strictly taken as him being a POS.

You still have to try and figure out Putin's concerns/viewpoint.

 

I firmly believe all world leaders, even the aggressive dictators have valid viewpoints that should be acknowledged.

 

Nobody seems to care why Putin is doing this from the viewpoint that he's upset/worried about something. It's strictly taken as him being a POS.

 

Philosophically, some believe that he sees it that he is saving the Slavic world from the encroachment of the "decadent West" with its "social deterioration," for example things like same sex marriage and so forth (you can be arrested for being gay in Russia). From what I understand, a lot of that talk about the "Slavic soul," "saving" the Slavic peoples from the "decadence" of the West with its materialism and accepting of gays, appealing to Russian patriotism and glorification of empire, etc...plays over very well with the Russian people.

 

Whether he believes that himself I do not know, but I do think he very much wants to re-build a form of Russian empire. Russians have a different mindset regarding patriotism then people in America and other countries. To them, it is much more collectivist-based. The economy could be lousy, the standard of living could be lousy, but if the strength of the empire is great, if the empire is highly respected on the world stage, etc...it's a great source of national pride. I think that is why there is a lot of pining for the old Soviet Union even though the standard of living then was terrible and it was very oppressive. But Russia was a superpower then as opposed to the much-less respected country it is now.

 

I honestly wonder how it would go if say we had a President who was intent on keeping America very strong and respected, and who was very pro-America and all that, and while having differences with Putin, nonetheless showed respect to Putin's goals for having a strong Russia and sought to engage in some grand strategy with Putin over how to resolve the differences. I think that might play to Putin's psychology (as he is clearly a man with an ego who likes to look strong and tough), and thus might make him more amicable if treated as more an equal as opposed to the U.S. just saying flat-out, "This is how it will be and that's that" or the current U.S. policy of looking weak. A strong America with regards to Russia need not be a disrespectful America that cares nothing over Russian concerns. But key to it first is a strong America that also won't take any crap either.

 

Of course I could be wrong too!

 

 

Whilst I am under no allusion that he is reading this forum here is a little message

 

 

Dear Mr Putin

 

STOP

 

BEING

 

A

 

DICK

 

Boris Nemtsov the fraud being inflated again. He's a nobody leader of a party with 1 regional seat.

 

His career died the day people found out he wasn't Russian, which made sense as to why he was trying to sell Russia.

Boris Nemtsov the fraud being inflated again. He's a nobody leader of a party with 1 regional seat.

 

His career died the day people found out he wasn't Russian, which made sense as to why he was trying to sell Russia.

 

Putin has said he will be personally investigating his assassination.

Putin has said he will be personally investigating his assassination.

Yeah I'm sure he is gravely concerned about mr. Nemtsov's fate, just like his idol Stalin who did the same thing in 1934 when Serghey Kirov was assassinated in Leningrad. Stalin knew of his fate beforehand, but when the news broke out he got on a train and personally took charge of the investigation.

 

I'm guessing Putin is sending a message at home now.

I honestly wonder how it would go if say we had a President who was intent on keeping America very strong and respected, and who was very pro-America and all that, and while having differences with Putin, nonetheless showed respect to Putin's goals for having a strong Russia and sought to engage in some grand strategy with Putin over how to resolve the differences. I think that might play to Putin's psychology (as he is clearly a man with an ego who likes to look strong and tough), and thus might make him more amicable if treated as more an equal as opposed to the U.S. just saying flat-out, "This is how it will be and that's that" or the current U.S. policy of looking weak. A strong America with regards to Russia need not be a disrespectful America that cares nothing over Russian concerns. But key to it first is a strong America that also won't take any crap either.

 

Of course I could be wrong too!

 

How would you feel if anyone criticizing said hypothetical patriotic American president was either dead, in exile or in jail?

Boris Nemtsov the fraud being inflated again. He's a nobody leader of a party with 1 regional seat.

 

His career died the day people found out he wasn't Russian, which made sense as to why he was trying to sell Russia.

What do you mean he wasn't Russian? As far as I know Russian Jews are still Russians.

If in your opinion Russian Jews don't count as Russian then 25-30% (maybe more) of Russia's population isn't Russian either, because they aren't white. And if they're not Russians why are are they politically in Russia? Or the only 'true Russians' are the ones supporting that thug come world leader they call a president?

 

 

How would you feel if anyone criticizing said hypothetical patriotic American president was either dead, in exile or in jail?

 

Not sure what you mean?

Good interview.

 

Well color me SHOCKED!

 

It's been nearly one year since 298 people were killed after a commercial passenger plane broke up over the Ukraine.

 

U.S. officials concluded Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was struck by a missile and shot out of the sky. A final report from investigators has yet to be released but CNN has learned new details from the draft investigative report for the July 17, 2014 incident.

 

Dutch accident investigators say, evidence points to pro-Russian rebels as being responsible for shooting down MH-17, according to a source who has seen the report.

 

The Malaysian Airlines flight went down in the Donetsk area of Ukraine. According to two sources with knowledge of the investigation, a draft of an investigative report authored by the Dutch Safety Board, the lead agency in the investigation, has been distributed for review to numerous agencies around the world including the National Transportation Safety Board, Federal Aviation Administration and Boeing.

 

The draft investigative report is several hundred pages long. According to one source close to the investigation the draft report included the exact type of missile used to bring down MH17 and the trajectory of the missile.

 

RELATED: United Airlines pilot flushed live ammunition down plane's toilet

 

Another source with knowledge of the report's details says it gives a minute by minute timeline of flight MH17. This source also says not only does the draft report pinpoint where the missile was fired from it identifies who was in control of the territory and pins the downing of MH17 on the pro-Russian rebels.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/15/politics/mh1...aine/index.html

Do we still think Russia didn't shoot the plane down? If it was the Ukrainians as they claim why not WELCOME the international tribunal that would prove it.

 

Russia has blocked a U.N. Security Council resolution that would have created an international tribunal to prosecute those responsible for bringing down Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 over Ukraine.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/30/world/mh17-u...unal/index.html