60+ killed in france truck drove through crowd...

You shouldn't blame people (muslims) but you should blame and critisize ideas (Islam, and religion in general). No ones "faith" or beliefs should be beyond question and critisizm, particularly when it directly affects so many people. A terrorist attack is the most obvious (and almost cliche) example of this, but many of the rules and traditions brought about by religion are nonsensical and incovenient in the lightest of cases (ie praying several times a day) and downright barbaric in other cases (ie animal sacrifices, genital mutilation, psychological abuse towards children who are told they will burn for eternity for masturbating, not seeking medical help for a child and turning to "prayer" for healing, etc).

 

 

I think you've got it 180 degrees backwards.

 

I dont judge theologies. All theologies look odd to outsiders, especially without context. I kinda sorta belong to a theology that symbolically drinks blood and engages in pretend cannibalism to remind us to be good people... fcuking bizarre. But not a lot of roman catholic's blowing people up for god and pope.

 

I judge adherents. And the actions of adherents as they practice their theology. And yeah... By that standard, Islam is in need of a serious reformation movement (which of course is strictly forbidden by the Koran, since it purports to be the "last word" on the subject, and any attempt at reform is apostasy... Punishable by death.... quite a catch 22 there).

He wasn't French he was Tunisian with a 'work permit'.

 

He had two wives.

 

Ho and he hit us on our National Day.

 

ISIS just took credit for the attack. Shocker there.

Political correctness will be the end of us, hopefully we will all wake up before it will be too late.

Here is the POS.

 

Here is the POS.

 

 

 

Terrorist or not... Those shorts are fcuking gay.

Political correctness will be the end of us, hopefully we will all wake up before it will be too late.

 

Terrorist or not... Those shorts are fcuking gay.

 

I think you've got it 180 degrees backwards.

 

I dont judge theologies. All theologies look odd to outsiders, especially without context. I kinda sorta belong to a theology that symbolically drinks blood and engages in pretend cannibalism to remind us to be good people... fcuking bizarre. But not a lot of roman catholic's blowing people up for god and pope.

 

I judge adherents. And the actions of adherents as they practice their theology. And yeah... By that standard, Islam is in need of a serious reformation movement (which of course is strictly forbidden by the Koran, since it purports to be the "last word" on the subject, and any attempt at reform is apostasy... Punishable by death.... quite a catch 22 there).

 

 

I wonder if people living in bumfuckistan really have a chance though. Yes, it would be good to get it through to them that 'hey, you don't have to follow these insane, archaic mores" and you definitely don't have to die to finally have sex, etc" - but when they look outside and see poppy fields, sand dunes and mountain drops, what the fcuk else they got to do besides saying 'the world fcuking sucks!"

https://news.vice.com/article/islamic-state...urce=vicenewsfb

Whoops. There goes the "no terrorist ties" narrative

Political correctness will be the end of us, hopefully we will all wake up before it will be too late.

:iamwithstupid:

 

So sick of people saying, after the latest mass murder du joir, "well we just will have to wait and see who is responsible and what their motives were." As if we should be worried about offending the sensitive folks over at ISIS by mistakenly blaming them right off the bat.

 

Attempting to "bring democracy" to a region that's been warring itself for the last few thousand years was such a monumental blunder.

When will Muslims snap out of it and finally concede that their prophet was a piece of shit and a model citizen for no one other than criminals?

:iamwithstupid:

 

So sick of people saying, after the latest mass murder du joir, "well we just will have to wait and see who is responsible and what their motives were." As if we should be worried about offending the sensitive folks over at ISIS by mistakenly blaming them right off the bat.

 

Attempting to "bring democracy" to a region that's been warring itself for the last few thousand years was such a monumental blunder.

You can't expect savages to be accepting of democracy when the very thought of being free is repulsive.

When will Muslims snap out of it and finally concede that their prophet was a piece of shit and a model citizen for no one other than criminals?

 

They wouldn't have to do that they have the right to believe in made up fictional characters just like the rest of us, the only thing I wish they'd do is hit the streets in droves condemning those atrocities which are claimed to be committed for them and in their names, I don't see them doing that, that's my biggest disappointment with the Muslim community.

 

If anyone would commit atrocities in my name I'd be on the street, media, social media etc. telling the whole world that I have nothing to do with those crazy f*cks and I do not support their cause IMO by saying nothing I'd incriminate myself.

You shouldn't blame people (muslims) but you should blame and critisize ideas (Islam, and religion in general). No ones "faith" or beliefs should be beyond question and critisizm, particularly when it directly affects so many people. A terrorist attack is the most obvious (and almost cliche) example of this, but many of the rules and traditions brought about by religion are nonsensical and incovenient in the lightest of cases (ie praying several times a day) and downright barbaric in other cases (ie animal sacrifices, genital mutilation, psychological abuse towards children who are told they will burn for eternity for masturbating, not seeking medical help for a child and turning to "prayer" for healing, etc).

 

For as long as faith isnt questioned and everyone can do as they please in the guise of religion we'll be trapped in the past.

 

Having said that, religion may be the conduit of irrational thinking, but the catalyst for all of these attackes and the growth of ISIS can be directly attributed to the invasion of Iraq and the destabalization of the area...Saddam was ruthless but at least he kept shits like ISIS from popularizing. That war not only added a huge chunk to the US debt but left thousands of US soldiers dead and million of civilians dead as well and the only ones reaping the benefits are ISIS right now. I find it hard to understand how anyone can still support the invasion. If your concerns as a US citizen are the fiscal situation of the country and/or national security and/or support for the troops and their families then the Iraq war should be something that really boils your blood. In my opinion if you truly support your troops you should see war as the absolute last possible resort and only if its really knocking at your doorstep....Iraq was neither of those things.

 

Anyways enough of the rambling. Unfortunately these threads can and will easily become political threads and it's unavoidable to some extent. ultimately anyone who just wants to pick one single reason for all terrorist attacks just isnt taking the big picture into account.

 

On the subject of political threads, its unfortunate that people can't seem to talk politics without getting at each others throats. I think more than ever, particularly in the US which has become so divided over the past decade, political discussion should be encouraged but both sides need to stay level headed and calm ( this would require heavy moderation). Political parties have become too much like gangs and no ones willing to listen to the other side and no one is willing to criticize their own side.

 

Sorry for the long post, basically wrote it during my train ride home lol

 

Well said.

 

Terrorist or not... Those shorts are fcuking gay.

I lol'd

 

Having said that, religion may be the conduit of irrational thinking, but the catalyst for all of these attackes and the growth of ISIS can be directly attributed to the invasion of Iraq and the destabalization of the area...Saddam was ruthless but at least he kept shits like ISIS from popularizing. That war not only added a huge chunk to the US debt but left thousands of US soldiers dead and million of civilians dead as well and the only ones reaping the benefits are ISIS right now. I find it hard to understand how anyone can still support the invasion. If your concerns as a US citizen are the fiscal situation of the country and/or national security and/or support for the troops and their families then the Iraq war should be something that really boils your blood. In my opinion if you truly support your troops you should see war as the absolute last possible resort and only if its really knocking at your doorstep....Iraq was neither of those things.

 

The world with Saddam Hussein could be very dangerous as well. And IMO, the creation of ISIS actually is not a direct result of the invasion. The invasion itself did not create a preordained outcome of something like ISIS arising. What created ISIS was the current Commander-in-Chief deciding to just pull all of the troops out of Iraq consequences be damned. This left a major power vacuum that then ISIS began to fill. Then when alerted of ISIS, he didn't take it seriously, referring to them infamously as the "J.V. squad." Remember, Al-Qaeda had been decimated by 2007 after The Surge. They had lost. The war was, to a degree, won. Won after far more blood and treasure then was supposed to be required, but still, the main scourge had been defeated.

 

Also I don't think the invasion left millions dead (although the number was still high). However, Obama did exactly as he said he was going to do. He made no bones about wanting to pull out the troops, and the American people voted for him, twice. So it is their fault, to a degree, for the rise of ISIS.

 

IMO, U.S. policy consisted of two major blunders. The Bush administration's blunder was in assuming that one could invade a country like Iraq and then quickly turn it into a functioning democracy. That was naivete in the extreme. On the other hand, Obama's major blunder was then in assuming that one could just pull the troops out and all would be well.

" His brother Jaber Bouhlel told the Daily Mail that the family received 240,000 Tunisian dinar (almost $110,000) from Mohamed in the past few weeks – a surprisingly large sum for a low-paid deliveryman.

 

“He used to send us small sums of money regularly like most Tunisians working abroad. But then he sent us all that money, it was fortune. He sent the money illegally. He gave cash to people he knew who were returning to our village and asked them to give it to the family,” said Jaber."

I read that, someone paid the "crazy" POS to kill all those people, funny how he wasn't crazy enough to premeditate everything.

They wouldn't have to do that they have the right to believe in made up fictional characters just like the rest of us, the only thing I wish they'd do is hit the streets in droves condemning those atrocities which are claimed to be committed for them and in their names, I don't see them doing that, that's my biggest disappointment with the Muslim community.

 

If anyone would commit atrocities in my name I'd be on the street, media, social media etc. telling the whole world that I have nothing to do with those crazy f*cks and I do not support their cause IMO by saying nothing I'd incriminate myself.

 

They claim that its a minority. Well if the majority of 1.5 billion Muslims aren't radicals, taking care of the minority shouldn't be a big problem. Then when you look at the stats, a very large percent have radical beliefs and imperial ambitions. Now to be fair, I do see online condemnation, but the problem is that there is no basis for it. Their prophet and his followers were thugs themselves. Muhammad ran a mafia-esque organization and made money by robbing caravans and keeping a 1/5 of all the loot stolen from tribes he's waged wars against. He subjugated nonbelievers and extorted them in exchange for "protection." This man was truly a piece of shit.

 

Condemnation isn't enough. I want them to put as much effort challenging these radicals as they do trying to fight Israel and smear people with charges of "islamophobia." You will never see it because the organizations behind these campaigns are funded and founded by radicals themselves, lol. Their narrative is the same: the west is oppressing muslims. Obfuscation and deflection is all we get from this community. Muslims believe Islam is perfect and since their quran is the verbatim words of their god, reformation is an impossibility. Efforts are spent proselytizing Islam, instead. From their perspective, the radicals aren't as big of a problem as those nonmuslims "ignorant" of islam because of the "islamophobic" environment that the media allegedly created. Give me a break....

They wouldn't have to do that they have the right to believe in made up fictional characters just like the rest of us, the only thing I wish they'd do is hit the streets in droves condemning those atrocities which are claimed to be committed for them and in their names, I don't see them doing that, that's my biggest disappointment with the Muslim community.

 

If anyone would commit atrocities in my name I'd be on the street, media, social media etc. telling the whole world that I have nothing to do with those crazy f*cks and I do not support their cause IMO by saying nothing I'd incriminate myself.

 

Ditto.

The left in this and every western nation is BRAINDEAD when it comes to this global threat. It is simply astounding how the intelligentsia speaks with such condescension, while being completely hoodwinked by the people they keep defending.

Read the memorandum yourselves....

https://www.investigativeproject.org/documents/misc/20.pdf

I judge adherents. And the actions of adherents as they practice their theology. And yeah... By that standard, Islam is in need of a serious reformation movement (which of course is strictly forbidden by the Koran, since it purports to be the "last word" on the subject, and any attempt at reform is apostasy... Punishable by death.... quite a catch 22 there).

 

This part is actually not true at all. There are many schools of thought, each with their own interpretations, lots of cultural practices are based on the huge body of theological philosophy and traditions rather than the quran. What you describe above is the standard for wahabbis/isis types. They do have the means to reform, just not the will and/or possibility. Also, past "reforms" gave birth to the wahabbi interpretation and thinking. They did reform but the in the opposite sense.

 

Wahabbis were confined to certain remote geographical areas in that great "friend" of the USA known as Saudi Arabia. With the discovery of oil and the immense amount of money and power that resulted, they have taken it upon themselves to project their way of thinking and their way of practicing religion throughout the muslim world. Why do you think they are largest proselytizers of islam? Why do they fund so many schools and mosques all over the world? It is they who have spread this cancer throughout the world in the 20th century and now everyone is reaping the harvest of those poisoned seeds. The middle east was very different in the recent past 50s 60s 70s. The younger generations are the most religious and most extreme. And this theory explains why, imo. With their influence and money they've drowned out competing and critical voices.

What I'm most surprised of is that at least in Europe, there is a pattern to these people becoming radicalized. It's always a petty criminal, not religious, with a history of drug/alcohol abuse, usually known to police. How does a petty criminal who uses drugs become over the course of a few weeks a religious zealot willing to sacrifice his own life to take others? Makes little sense to me. I'd expect potential terrorists to be one of those extremely conservative types.

 

One more thing I'm wondering about is how come politicians like Hillary Clinton, or Merkel or whatever keep telling us NATO can't do anything about these barbarians? Why can't ISIS which is comprised of what? 25-50 thousand fuckwads be eliminated in a week or so with a ground campaign? Why must we tolerate a terrorist state, accept refugees, bow to the likes of Erdogan who is strong arming the west to his will? Why? I see politicians are flexible enough to back out of campaign promises, why can't they be flexible and change tune to support stability in the middle east? In Syria's case it's Assad.

 

Can anyone tell me why Assad was so bad? Was he a bigger threat to the world than Isis? Not a bullet fired to Israel since the 70s, all minorities protected, peace and quiet, a stable country, no isis etc. Yes he opressed his own people when they wanted to engage in politics, but he also opressed islamists, many seem to forget that. Why is it that he can't be supported in order to restore order? Is it a point of principle? Politicians have principles now, is that it? What about the suffering of the 7-8 million people who are now displaced in Syria? What about their lives? Why subject them to this pain and suffering for a 'principle'? The minority of displaced people who have arrived in Europe are facing a hostile population, the rest also facing hardship and hostility, instead of living with their dignity intact in their own countries. Why was this necessary?

This part is actually not true at all. There are many schools of thought, each with their own interpretations, lots of cultural practices are based on the huge body of theological philosophy and traditions rather than the quran. What you describe above is the standard for wahabbis/isis types. They do have the means to reform, just not the will and/or possibility. Also, past "reforms" gave birth to the wahabbi interpretation and thinking. They did reform but the in the opposite sense.

 

Wahabbis were confined to certain remote geographical areas in that great "friend" of the USA known as Saudi Arabia. With the discovery of oil and the immense amount of money and power that resulted, they have taken it upon themselves to project their way of thinking and their way of practicing religion throughout the muslim world. Why do you think they are largest proselytizers of islam? Why do they fund so many schools and mosques all over the world? It is they who have spread this cancer throughout the world in the 20th century and now everyone is reaping the harvest of those poisoned seeds. The middle east was very different in the recent past 50s 60s 70s. The younger generations are the most religious and most extreme. And this theory explains why, imo. With their influence and money they've drowned out competing and critical voices.

 

 

By "reformation" we typically mean the rejection of archaic ideas written millennia ago by and for far less civilized people, without rejection of the entire religion.

 

In Christianity, it wasn't exactly EASY, but it was POSSIBLE. The Bible contains verses that purport to be "the word of God", but with the exception of the 10 commandments (which thankfully turned out to be fairly benign, and without a penalty clause) it is thoroughly acknowledged that it was written by men. Especially the New Testament which is nothing more than a collection of histories and letters from contemporaries and disciples of Jesus, re-telling his message. Its easy to reject, for example, a barbaric Proclamation of God to the Thessalonians, since we're not Thessalonians, the Thessalonians haven't existed as a culture or people for 2000 years, and the proclamation was directed at them... Or even more often, a specific Thessalonian. We pigeon hole that as "he's not talking to us, it doesn't make sense by todays mores, skip that one."

 

The Koran on the other hand purports to be the actual, dictated, words of God. It spends an awful lot of time going on about how "perfect it is" and how not a single word should be changed. Worse, Its not just a book of theology, "do this if you want to get to heaven". Its a legal text. Complete with crimes and punishments. Punishments to be carried out by faithful Muslims, less they be unfathful to the word of God. And finally, it casts a net over the entire world. It's commands aren't just to Muslims in 700AD. Its to Muslims TODAY... And theres no wiggle room! Everybody is to do this, or else... And the "Or Else's" aren't punishments in the after world with god being the judge. The "Or else's" are punishments and fines to be carried out BY MUSLIMS, here on earth... With one of the great catch-all's being "apostasy" or rejection of the faith... And ignoring the more radical versus is of course, in and of itself, a rejection of the WORD OF GOD, and thus apostasy...

 

How does that religion, with those rules, REFORM to the crazy ideals of a modern civilization, you know, where women have equal rights, and people have freedom of religious beliefs?

 

 

You can say there are "lots of schools of thought", but in Islam, none exist with the peace of mind that nobody wants them dead because they disagree.

 

 

Compare that to Christianity or Judaism. There are probably twenty different Christian churches within two miles of my house (yes, there are more churches than gas stations)... Baptist, Southern Baptist, Methodists, Amish, Episcopalian, Protestant, catholic, New Age, Calvinist, adventist, evangelical, lutheran, etc, etc, etc... None of them want the others dead, or are killing people because it thinks it gets them to heaven. THATS what a reformed church looks like.

What is happening in the world today is in actuality a continuation of the Thousand Years Wars. Islamists want to retake control of the entire Middle East and re-establish the Ottoman Empire. The islamists have and have had a long range to control the world........just as the Rothschilds do. This battle of ideologies will continue until there is a final conquest. We are all just fodder.

Can anyone tell me why Assad was so bad?

He probably has WMD like Saddam did.