So I know we're not supposed to talk politics - Presidential Election - Poll

Guilty for having a 7 figure salary and employing others at a sub 50K salary? I'll tell you what, Keith. I grew up poor as shit. I had shoes with holes in them like Fortis. I'm working on a project and others that I hope will save the lives of some people and improve the lives of others. Would I feel guilty receiving 7 figures a year. Short answer: fcuk no. I've seen so many who had everything handed to them and had it so easy. Was I jealous at the time? Yes. Am I jealous now? No. Everything that happens in my life is 99.9% my responsibility and mostly resulting from my actions from here on out. Do I feel bad for those who can't make it there? Yes and no. I'm deciding what happens for the rest of my life. If my company gets big enough and I have people making $49K a year working for me, guess what, that's more than I'm making right now. I'll say it for god's sake. I'm not rich. All my money goes to my inventions and projects that might not even fcuking work. Did you stay up every night away frmo your wife and friends building that? Did you? Did you? It's easy to speculate when you haven't been there. Literally every day I have goes towards making a better life for me and my wife. Most of my free time. All of the time I have to think.

 

 

You live in a bubble. A sad bubble of liberal ideologies and policies. NY. You don't know anything other than that. The fact is that if I make 7 figures a year one day and pay other people less than $50K, they fully deserve that 50K if they do what's in their contracts. They didn't stay up every night reading on the internet and spending what little money they had working towards creating something. They're average people who will always live an average life until they decide to change it. I used to think somewhat like you. "exhibit a" has more money than me. It's not fair. He's lived a life of privilege. It's not true. A lot of Exhibit A's worked hard to get to where they are, just like Fortis. It's a fcuking joke. You are responsible for where you are just as I am responsible for where I am today.

 

 

A little story. When I was 19, I bought a BMW 325i. A very new car at the time. I went to visit a friend who helped sell me that car. He worked at Barrier Porsche in Bellevue Washington. In the garage was a brand new Porsche 997 911 Cabriolet in baby blue. A special edition with checkered interior that only 50 were made. He told me a 20 year old bought that car. A kid older than me. Guess what? That 20 year old had a business he'd started when he was 17. He grew it and grew it until he sold it that year for a few million dollars. I hated the thought of it at the time because my life sucked so bad. The only difference is that now that I have some real world experience in working on an app, some websites and other applications. I realized that that kid probably stayed up every night getting less than 5 hours of sleep trying to do what he could.

 

 

Again. You are responsible for where you are. Fortis (and I hate to mention you, friend) is probably one of the richest or in the top five richest people here. He lived a shit life growing up, but every day dedicated his life to making it better. You can't tell me that hard work doesn't deserve that kind of life. Life isn't fair Keith. Maybe one day you'll realize that, maybe you won't. But I hope your skewed views of profits and money will change one day.

 

 

 

You assume way too much. Again, there is no jealousy. There is no hating that guy because he is rich. I'm merely stating that the game as it is set up now= is garbage.

Please enough of this shit, let's keep this thread about the orange one.

 

 

Agreed-

 

Tapping out. I can't get enough of your disdain for Trump BTW. Cheers.

You assume way too much. Again, there is no jealousy. There is no hating that guy because he is rich. I'm merely stating that the game as it is set up now= is garbage.

 

The game is not garbage-it's fair. If you think the USA is unfair then why do people flock here in the millions? You're only playing the game wrong.

So. When is Trump getting impeached?

 

I shouldn't even be posting in this thread. Did it for the lulz.

Tuesday at 1230

 

 

The game is not garbage-it's fair. If you think the USA is unfair then why do people flock here in the millions? You're only playing the game wrong.

 

 

I see your point. I really do. But you're argument says that anyone who isn't willing to start a business should scrape by. I disagree with that on every level.

 

I see your point. I really do. But you're argument says that anyone who isn't willing to start a business should scrape by. I disagree with that on every level.

 

Really? Tell that to my friend Mark who fled Russia at age 5 with his family who who only had $400 in their pockets. He's working for a company as what you'd call "one of the little guys." Drives a GT3RS and has a nice house in LA. Okay.

So. When is Trump getting impeached?

 

I shouldn't even be posting in this thread. Did it for the lulz.

 

 

It's coming soon.. trust CNN

What the hell guys, can't we discuss these issues civilly without getting into personal insults? No need to be calling each other stupid and libtard and all of that.

What really burns my ass is when King Tutt- who depends on his employees to develop, create, pedal and then support his warez can leave a drop for everyone to split while he drinks his gallon. THEN WHINES that he has to pay a few extra bucks in taxes to subsidize the lives of the very people he himself is living off of, because they feel entitled, I.e.- feel like they shouldn't be struggling to live.

 

But hey- you do your thing man..

 

I get the impression that you have some huge misconceptions about basic economics. Your argument here is the classic socialist mindset that the workers are essentially slaves of the owner of the company. They are not. They are people engaging in a voluntary contract with the employer, which in a free market means the value of their labor is determined by the forces of the market. They get paid for what they produce. Of course the owner of the company gets paid more, it is their property, their value-creating asset. They assume all the financial risk of the company. It's a risk-reward thing. Assume little risk, get little reward. Assume big risk, get big reward (if successful).

 

 

No- you are assuming that my thoughts apply to everyone. I do not agree with $15/hr for burger flippers. There are people out there working 50-60 hours a week for a shitty 50k/yr all so they can meet out of line budget projections set by some greedy prick. That is horse shit. Been there, have the t-shirt to prove it. Projects I had my hands in created 25% growth for that business in a single year. I was given a 3% raise. Get f'd.

 

Yes, but you did not assume the risk in developing that project. That was born by the shareholders who own the company. If the project failed, it would then have been a bunch of money wasted and profits lost. Either way, you get paid though. You can't assume no risk in a project and then expect a big payoff if it works. Now sometimes companies offer employee shareholder plans, where the employees themselves can assume partial ownership, and hence partial risk, in the operation. Then the employees have an incentive: work hard and work smart, make successful projects, increase profits, increase the value of the shares, and get more money as a result. But not be successful and the result is lose more money. However, by owning more shares, you hold more risk. You can thus make more money but also lose more as well.

 

So say if you owned 30% of the company and increase the profits by 25%, you get 30% of that 25% increase. That's a lot more money than the 3% raise as just an employee. But if the company ended up LOSING 25% in profits instead, well you lose a huge amount more money as well! So yes, as just a standard employee, you'll often get something like a 3% raise for working on a project that earns 25% more in profits, because you contribute to the labor, but don't assume risk.

 

But there's another dimension here as well: how many other people contributed to that project? Because if all of you got part of that 25%, if there's like eight people on the project, that would be about 3% each right? And that's assuming you all assumed the risk for the project as well. If there were sixteen people on the project, you'd each get even less while dividing it up. And as standard employees who assume NO risk on the project, you'd each get even less than that.

 

If one guy assumes the risk and does no labor, and all the other guys do the labor but assume no risk, they have no right to complain if the guy taking on the risk gets paid more in the end, because if the project failed, he loses a lot of money, whereas the employees just wash their hands of it with no loss on their part.

 

So yes, you can work hard and contribute to a project that earns the company big profits, but unless you're doing the majority of the labor AND assuming a lot of the risk, the financial reward you get won't be that big. Want more reward, assume more risk. Remember, the fruit belongs to the monkey willing to go out on the limb to get it, but the limb might break and the monkey fall onto the ground below, and then have to climb back up to square one just to try again.

kmb58 you just confirmed my thoughts that you haven't experienced real hardship and you don't know what that is, you've also confirmed that you've made some fundamental wrong decisions and choices in your life.

 

Think about this, you had a house to lose, then you were able to crash at mum's furthermore you were able to put yourself and your wife through school which I assume was subsidized via a number of social programs which I've mentioned above.

 

The fundamental mistakes you've made is, probably the location, based on your own admission, also when one is hungry one seeks food not cooking lessons, when one needs money goes out to earn money.

 

You went out and spent more time in school, wasting precious time (the most valuable commodity you possess) waste more money which you didn't and don't seem to have you added to your debt going forward just so you can acquire few additional pieces of paper which you thought will mean your salvation now you are pissed that it didn't work out that way and the papers you have aren't the magic potion you were hoping for. You don't see this as your fault, it's the decision you've made and unfortunately didn't work out as well as you expected it.

 

The issue is, the minute you chose your career you've pretty much set your income, perhaps with your qualifications your earning potential is tapped out, if that's the case you have to look elsewhere and think outside the box.

 

My advice to you is to listen more to those who have accomplished the goals you'd like to accomplish, ask for advice, change your attitude, if you don't want to stop bitching because it does not help you there are certain laws and forces of nature you can not change no matter how hard you try.

 

You sure got to think at some point, I see my way doesn't work what if those bastards are correct in what they are telling me? NO?

 

Anyway, good luck to you.

You went out and spent more time in school, wasting precious time (the most valuable commodity you possess) waste more money which you didn't and don't seem to have you added to your debt going forward just so you can acquire few additional pieces of paper which you thought will mean your salvation now you are pissed that it didn't work out that way and the papers you have aren't the magic potion you were hoping for. You don't see this as your fault, it's the decision you've made and unfortunately didn't work out as well as you expected it.

 

Going back to school isn't necessarily a waste of time, it depends on the person and their capabilities and goals, if they have nothing and it gives them a skill that pays okay or well, then great. kmb58 made a good investment I think with an engineering degree because they can be so versatile. IMO whether it was a waste of time would depend on what he was doing before he got the degree. If he was working minimum wage jobs, it was probably a sound investment for further opportunities IMO. If his goal was to build a business, it would depend.

Holy shit take the goddamn dissertations somewhere else you imbeciles 😂

Going back to school isn't necessarily a waste of time, it depends on the person and their capabilities and goals, if they have nothing and it gives them a skill that pays okay or well, then great. kmb58 made a good investment I think with an engineering degree because they can be so versatile. IMO whether it was a waste of time would depend on what he was doing before he got the degree. If he was working minimum wage jobs, it was probably a sound investment for further opportunities IMO. If his goal was to build a business, it would depend.

 

That's why he's complaining about a $100k student loan, phenomenal investment, I am not denying that further studies aren't important for some but it's case by case and I was referring to his situation.

 

Also I expect an adult to have more foresight in order to make sure the skills they are pursuing and training for will be desirable and afford them the life style they desire, pointless crying later over spilled milk.

 

 

Holy shit take the goddamn dissertations somewhere else you imbeciles 😂

 

Imbeciles? LOL, based on your contributions here you are as useful to this community as a one legged cat trying to bury a turd on a frozen lake.

 

 

That's why he's complaining about a $100k student loan, phenomenal investment, I am not denying that further studies aren't important for some but it's case by case and I was referring to his situation.

 

Also I expect an adult to have more foresight in order to make sure the skills they are pursuing and training for will be desirable and afford them the life style they desire, pointless crying later over spilled milk.

 

Coolbeans, wasn't sure if you were generalizing.

 

Imbeciles? LOL, based on your contributions here you are as useful to this community as a one legged cat trying to bury a turd on a frozen lake.

 

In pakisho's defense (CAN'T BELIEVE I AM SAYING THIS), I think his calling people "imbeciles" was meant tongue-in-cheek, not as a literal insult.

This thread

 

 

In pakisho's defense (CAN'T BELIEVE I AM SAYING THIS), I think his calling people "imbeciles" was meant tongue-in-cheek, not as a literal insult.

 

Wheels you always crack me up, trust you to think that pakisho calling you an imbecile wasn't an insult

 

My friend he was insulting you and everyone else.

This thread

 

Fortis, once again you have given a valid alternative perspective. Wheels was correct though. Both of our educations were sound investments, the world around us has not cooperated. Be it geographical location or just bad luck...

 

my education was cheap... I was referring to wife's.

 

Having a support system does not mean we didn't experience hardship. Doesn't mean we didn't struggle, certainly doesn't make anyone less humble..

 

 

 

One thing I'm thankful for from Trump is that he (mostly inadvertently I think) got me and many others, particularly from my generation, not only interested in politics but also aware of its importance. Going out and voting is important but not sufficient, there needs to be constant discussion and involvement. I used to follow world politics, though not as much as now, but now I see the importance of being involved on a local level as a very minimum requirement.

 

The modern state of politics (though not so much in Canada as the US but the principle applies nevertheless) has become almost religious in nature. I don't like religion and the notion that people will hold beliefs based on no evidence and then claim that discussion of the matters are personal and not be discussed is not acceptable. Just my two cents.

I'll ignore the insullt.

 

Agreed to an extent. Unfortunately there is a bit more to it than this. This is very macro and doesn't consider the value/ability of the person. By your argument, I should go try out for the Buffalo Bills.. arguably, I'd do it for less and they'd still be the same shitty football team.

 

Apply that to a real job. Every company out there wants top performance at bottom price and then can't figure out why their workforce has the moral of ... well.. something with bad moral.

 

This all falls solidly in the macro category, and you missed a key point, ceteris Paribus. All things being equal, meaning people with equal skills.

 

I also have to ask, from one engineer to another, what did you expect the pay to be?

 

Regarding that project that resulted in the 25% growth to the company, you're treating it like you did everything.

-Who had the foresight to scale the capabilities of the company, so you could work on this Project?

-How much $$ was invested in the hopes of getting projects like that, with no guarantee of any return?

-Who actually went out, bid the job, and had the skills to write a very good estimate on a massive project, and then was able to close the deal? What happens if that guy screws up and the company loses money? Are you still the abused hero?

 

You may have done some difficult tasks, and done a good job of managing deadlines, but that's the last part of the job. And to be fair, lots of people can do the math and engineering.

 

I see this all the time, I, I, I... you did one part of the whole project, and honestly you're in a position of being replaced reasonably easily. None of those things demand a value significantly higher than what you are being paid. If you were in such demand, you would be fighting off offers from competing firms and looking for the highest bidder. But you're not, right?

 

How do you change that?

 

Why not start your own engineering firm? That's obviously where the money is. You would definitely pay 2x market rate for the best employes, out of your kids college funds, in hopes it all works out, right?

One thing I'm thankful for from Trump is that he (mostly inadvertently I think) got me and many others, particularly from my generation, not only interested in politics but also aware of its importance. Going out and voting is important but not sufficient, there needs to be constant discussion and involvement. I used to follow world politics, though not as much as now, but now I see the importance of being involved on a local level as a very minimum requirement.

 

The modern state of politics (though not so much in Canada as the US but the principle applies nevertheless) has become almost religious in nature. I don't like religion and the notion that people will hold beliefs based on no evidence and then claim that discussion of the matters are personal and not be discussed is not acceptable. Just my two cents.

 

The state of politics since like forever has been religious in nature, including in the United States. Anyone who has looked at political history finds it hilarious the notion where you have people saying, "Oh, it's never been this bad before, the partisanship, the name-calling, etc..." in the days of the early United States, you had fist fights on the House and Senate floor, you had all sorts of nastiness in the press, the Founding Father Alexander Hamilton and SITTING VICE PRESIDENT at the time, Aaron Burr, engaged in a duel in which Hamilton was shot and killed by Burr. And some of the stuff that went on during the 20th century as well would make your head spin.

The state of politics since like forever has been religious in nature, including in the United States. Anyone who has looked at political history finds it hilarious the notion where you have people saying, "Oh, it's never been this bad before, the partisanship, the name-calling, etc..." in the days of the early United States, you had fist fights on the House and Senate floor, you had all sorts of nastiness in the press, the Founding Father Alexander Hamilton and SITTING VICE PRESIDENT at the time, Aaron Burr, engaged in a duel in which Hamilton was shot and killed by Burr. And some of the stuff that went on during the 20th century as well would make your head spin.

I don't doubt things will get heated, frankly they should....means people have skin in the game