So I know we're not supposed to talk politics - Presidential Election - Poll

I know, right? Clearly, Trump has no financial ties to russia, because he disclosed all of his business dealings via his...........uh...........tax returns?

For a corporation like Trump international to disclose all of its tax info he would have exposed lots of other companies taxes to scrutiny that may not approve? Funny how now that HRC didn't get elected to be POTUS the Clinton Foundation is closing its doors..... I wonder where the hundreds of millions came from before hmmmm

If it's no big deal then why lie about it?

 

Because the press has been trying to delegitimize trump since he won the election. "But you lost the popular vote", "Recount stein", "he won because of (totally impossible) russian hacking", "the electoral college wont vote for him", "he won because of wikileaks", "He won because of 'fake news', "not my president" "Impeach as soon as hes sworn in", "he gets peed on by russian hookers" "we wont confirm his nominees", blah, blah, blah, and he's determined not to give them anything.

It would be very interesting to see how those who say they "don't care" about suspected communication between Russian intelligence and Trump's network would have reacted to the same information during the Obama administration.

With both sides, there are certain things that if the other side did it, they'd raise hell; we know this because of various times it has happened. Regarding Trump and Russia, I don't like the moral equivalence that Trump made between Putin and America. Obama never gave Russia any respect, referring to Putin as looking like the bored kid at the back of the classroom, which unto itself I don't think was bad as Putin is a murderer and thug but at the same time, Obama's policy on Russia was IMO way too soft). I think Russia wants respect and wants to be "great again" itself ("great" from the Russian perspective as they were never an economic great), and maybe Putin wants to work with Trump on grand strategy that could benefit both nations. He might even respect a U.S. that acts from a position of strength and firmness, even if he disagrees on certain things. The U.S. need emphasize though that it will not acquiesce on its Eastern European allies and NATO strength.

 

But for mutual work to be done, that requires Russia to be fair in the game as well and not constantly seek to screw over and undermine the U.S. If that is their way, then the U.S. should just go to a hard-line stance on them and seek to undermine and weaken them as much as possible, IMO.

Yugoslavia in the 90's- We fought on the wrong side. And a lot of the guys who were in that WAR and came back experienced a serious conflict of conscious. Because their chain of command and the world at large said we were doing the right thing. But when they got on the ground, and talked to the locals, including the people we were helping, the morality of the sides became very blurry. We fought for who at best turned out to be the greater of two evils. And in likely hood, stopped one side from defending itself against legitimate fcuking monsters, because the method of the majorities defense seemed outrageous to our uninformed eyes. Russia had kept a lid on the shit for 90 years. And as soon as the lid was lifted, the tribes went back to their old ways.

 

Roman, what is a good source to read up on this? I would like to learn more about it. I know there are books all about the Yugoslavia conflict, but they might present the incorrect view.

 

 

Funny, to me that says what I am saying to the press is a bunch of shit so I can get re-elected and then I will do whatever I want. No outrage? It's the damn president colluding with Russia! Flynn was spied on by Obama minions, and the info was illegally leaked. We do not know exactly what was said and he has resigned. Can we get back to how many of you are willing to move some refugees into your extra bedrooms?

This clown is the gift that keeps on giving;

 

“I think we’re going to make a deal,” Mr. Trump said, describing that as personally important to him. “It might be a better and better deal than people in this room even understand.”

 

 

This guy is so far ahead of everyone else in the room that he's beyond their capacity to understand fully what he's got in his head.

 

MIND BLOWN!

Just trolling..

 

Roman, what is a good source to read up on this? I would like to learn more about it. I know there are books all about the Yugoslavia conflict, but they might present the incorrect view.

 

 

My only info on the subject comes from talking to people who lived it.

Ill give it a shot.

 

Russia and the U.S. had a pretty good relationship through the Bush years. We had a common enemy: radical Islam. And in some ways, Russia had been dealing with this shit longer than we have. Contrary to popular belief, the first Al Quada decapitation video was NOT that of Daniel Pearl. It was of a 19 year old Russian soldier, Yevgeny Rodionov who was taken prisoner in 1996 in Chechnya and beheaded because he wouldn't convert to Islam. The video was used by his captors in an attempt to extort money from his mother.

 

 

A quick history lesson:

 

Yugoslavia in the 90's- We fought on the wrong side. And a lot of the guys who were in that WAR and came back experienced a serious conflict of conscious. Because their chain of command and the world at large said we were doing the right thing. But when they got on the ground, and talked to the locals, including the people we were helping, the morality of the sides became very blurry. We fought for who at best turned out to be the greater of two evils. And in likely hood, stopped one side from defending itself against legitimate fcuking monsters, because the method of the majorities defense seemed outrageous to our uninformed eyes. Russia had kept a lid on the shit for 90 years. And as soon as the lid was lifted, the tribes went back to their old ways.

 

Flash forward to Obama. Obama didn't see radical Islam as the #1 evil in the world. Obama had a hard-on for "colonialism". Don't believe me? Read his fcuking book. Colonialism didn't give us radical islam. Colonialism gave us middle east dictators like Mubarak, Qaddafi, and Assad. And quietly overthrowing them became the goal of Obama. Why in the fcuk would we overthrow Mubarak? (or "allow" him to be overthrown? where's my Dr. Evil finger to lip gif) Or Qaddafi AT THAT POINT in time (and no need to play semantics here, that one was unapologetically US)? Yeah, they were shit heads, but Mubarak was OUR shit head... And Qaddafi had gotten religion after Iraq. But we overthrew them both and allowed for the more radical voices in both countries to take the reigns. We MOSTLY (luckily) failed in egypt. But it wasn't for a lack of trying. And then we went for Assad. We aided the "rebels" (who are often indistinguishable from Al Quada or ISIS), While at the same time allowing Turkey to radicalize more than it has since its inception, and become the Chicago-O'hare of radical islamic travel.

 

Russia has a big stake in that game. They are economically allied with Assad... And have ZERO interest in having Syria, Turkey, Georgia, Chechnya, and the caucuses from getting worse than they already are. And so, despite all the silly reset buttons, U.S. Russian relations have strained... When they shoudn't have been.

 

So yes. Perhaps a global realignment is in order. And candidate Trump has been talking about it from the start. Democratic foreign policy all to often comes down to "back the underdog!" which doesn't turn out too well when the underdog is rabid.

 

Yugoslavia was the test case for unbottling the pressure cooker centuries of hate and yes it was a total mess. Classic glued together country. But now they coexist and have stopped committing genocide, a low bar I know. The dictators you mention were/are on an unsustainable course. I look at this as ripping off the band-aid. It's gonna be a fcuking mess and lots of people are going to die. But inevitable eventually.

 

Let's not ignore which President invaded Iraq under a false and manufactured pretense and got this recent set of dominos falling. Taking out Iraq, removed the counterweight to Iran. If you want to espouse a status quo strategy, that's a cardinal sin. I disagree with your statement we had a pretty good working with Russia under Bush. He also tried a reset with Russia and failed, don't you remember his famous Putin's a good guy speech. Putin just sees a revolving door of US leadership and plays to his base.

Let's not ignore which President invaded Iraq under a false and manufactured pretense and got this recent set of dominos falling. Taking out Iraq, removed the counterweight to Iran. If you want to espouse a status quo strategy, that's a cardinal sin.

 

President Bush did not invade under a manufactured pretense. False (most likely), yes, but not manufactured. They just ultimately were wrong. I do think that the notion that they could just invade and then turn the country into a liberal democracy overnight was very foolish, but that is different from outright lying. With regards to taking out the counterweight to Iran, IMO that's kind of like saying that taking out Nazi Germany was bad because they were a counterweight to the Soviet Union. Saddam Hussein was a threat unto himself to the West. That he ultimately didn't have WMDs doesn't mean that he couldn't have gotten them in the future again. He did have the infrastructure set up where he could quickly re-start production of them if he had wanted.

 

In terms of what Iran is doing right now, I don't see how Iraq would have served as much of a counter. With regards to nuclear weapons, the U.S. and Israel having nukes both serve as a form of counter to the best one can have in that sense. Otherwise, in terms of Iran sponsoring terrorism, I don't see how a Saddam-controlled Iraq would have been able to counter there.

Cue autistic liberal screeching

http://m.rasmussenreports.com/public_conte...ong_track_feb13

President Bush did not invade under a manufactured pretense. False (most likely), yes, but not manufactured.

 

Ask Colin Powell if he agrees with your statement.

 

Can you elaborate on why you feel Hussein was a threat to the West unless he invaded another neighboring oil producer? I think he learned his lesson after Gulf War 1.

 

Bush 41 made the play to call off the dogs and not take out Hussein and maintain the status quo.

 

I just want to clarify my band-aid comment. There are no easy options or clean solutions. Whichever path is chosen, maintain the status quo or support/allow inevitable regime change; everybody is getting their hands dirty and will be covered in shit from the blowback.

Ask Colin Powell if he agrees with your statement.

 

Colin Powell I believe just has sour grapes because he was made a fool out of after testifying before the UN that Iraq had WMDs. I do not believe it was a lie for a few reasons:

 

1) They couldn't keep Watergate a secret or Clinton's having a blowjob in the White House a secret, but we are to believe that President Bush somehow orchestrated a total fabrication about WMDs in Iraq?

 

2) Why would he? What purpose would it have served? There was no point to invade Iraq otherwise.

 

3) Congress doesn't get its intelligence solely from the White House. They have their own intelligence sources, that is part of the system of checks and balances. The fact that so many voted for going into Iraq is because their own intelligence was showing what the White House was saying.

 

Can you elaborate on why you feel Hussein was a threat to the West unless he invaded another neighboring oil producer? I think he learned his lesson after Gulf War 1.

 

For the same reason I believe Iran is a threat. He had tried in the past to acquire a nuclear weapon and he had shown a willingness to use chemical weapons, and he had a WMD program, so if he acquired such weapons, he could have checked the West's attempts to stop him in ways that before he couldn't.

 

Bush 41 made the right play to call off the dogs and not take out Hussein. It was a contributing reason why he lost the 92 election, well that and the economy, something about reading his lips...

 

Ultimately he probably made the right call considering how taking him out would result in lots of chaos. On the election, those things you mentioned and also probably Ross Perot splitting the vote.

Colin Powell I believe just has sour grapes because he was made a fool out of after testifying before the UN that Iraq had WMDs. I do not believe it was a lie for a few reasons:

 

1) They couldn't keep Watergate a secret or Clinton's having a blowjob in the White House a secret, but we are to believe that President Bush somehow orchestrated a total fabrication about WMDs in Iraq?

 

2) Why would he? What purpose would it have served? There was no point to invade Iraq otherwise.

 

3) Congress doesn't get its intelligence solely from the White House. They have their own intelligence sources, that is part of the system of checks and balances. The fact that so many voted for going into Iraq is because their own intelligence was showing what the White House was saying.

 

 

 

For the same reason I believe Iran is a threat. He had tried in the past to acquire a nuclear weapon and he had shown a willingness to use chemical weapons, and he had a WMD program, so if he acquired such weapons, he could have checked the West's attempts to stop him in ways that before he couldn't.

 

 

 

Ultimately he probably made the right call considering how taking him out would result in lots of chaos. On the election, those things you mentioned and also probably Ross Perot splitting the vote.

 

If Colin Powell has sour grapes it is because he was lied to. Cheney was the driving force behind the Iraq invasion. The reason was oil. Any tom, dick and harry failed state can manufacture WMD, it's called mustard gas.

fcuking FAKE NEWS!

fcuking FAKE NEWS!

 

 

You have got to stop reading that crap.

 

I think smart Republicans should hedge their bets and go along with an independent investigation. If there is nothing there, what's the downside.

You have got to stop reading that crap.

 

 

God damn CNN and their BULLSHIT!

You guys have lost it, no one cares but the left. We do not even know what was in the call. What we need is an investigation on the felons violating top secret clearance leaking private calls. We all saw how the dems investigated themselves for 8 years with a scumbag AG.

You guys have lost it, no one cares but the left. We do not even know what was in the call. What we need is an investigation on the felons violating top secret clearance leaking private calls. We all saw how the dems investigated themselves for 8 years with a scumbag AG.

 

You're wrong, the vast majority of the population right or left doesn't give a crap until they get a spoonfed result.

 

You should reactivate your subscription to MSNBC or CNN for a day or two and watch the loop that is played endlessly on Trump's election comments about hacking, how he loves leaks and his pro Russian leadership views. Pretty rich to hear his whining now. The transcripts of the calls (and other stuff) are coming out.

 

Meanwhile in actual news, Israel one state solution, anybody want to wade into that quagmire?

God damn CNN and their BULLSHIT!

 

He's so fucked. Will he last 1 year?

 

You can't even trust the President with sensitive information, due to fear of leaks? Unbelievable, while basically letting Russian fly their fcuking flag in our sea and letting N.Korea get some action? And Barack was a pussy?

 

I just spoke with my brother, and ICE is coming to his son's middle school tomorrow to screen parents to make sure that they are legal? Jesus, all that is missing are the stars.

 

I had a lot of faith in Trump, but he is Hitler 2.0. Impeach his ass.

Actually he said 2 state/ one state I am going with what they agree is best for them both. I think after this long a 2 state solution is not going to ever happen. They teach little kids to hate Israel and preach death to them their whole lives so unless that changes how do you move forward and live peacefully next to someone that wants to wipe you off the map? With that said Israel can be a bully from time to time but don't you kind of have to be when you are out on your own and Obama clearly was on the side of the Palestinians. Now they are all laughing at Kushner but have no idea what he can do to help at this point.

You should reactivate your subscription to MSNBC or CNN for a day or two and watch the loop that is played endlessly on Trump's election comments about hacking, how he loves leaks and his pro Russian leadership views. Pretty rich to hear his whining now.

 

 

I watched a bit of CNN tonight with Don lemmon and Carl Bernstien was about to have a stroke on how this was worse than Watergate and then some other moron was explaining that Trump wasn't really brain damaged, he is just incompetent. Oh and he had a book coming out about Trump not mentally ill, just stupid.

 

 

This video was also found on youtube

 

I watched a bit of CNN tonight with Don lemmon and Carl Bernstien was about to have a stroke on how this was worse than Watergate and then some other moron was explaining that Trump wasn't really brain damaged, he is just incompetent. Oh and he had a book coming out about Trump not mentally ill, just stupid.

 

Don Lemon is up there with the worst Fox News hosts. He is truly unwatchable. HOF bad.