Airbus A380 vs. Boeing 787 Dreamliner

I couldn't agree more at this very moment. I've been traveling 22 hours. Ugh!! And I'm still not home. I'm smashed in a middle seat from SFO-LAX.

 

I'm in!! I'll put one on my AMEX and have the greatest 30 days of my life or until I get caught!!! Lol

 

There's a lot of places you can find to hide within 30 days...

Some biz jets are going to 6,000ft cabin altitude, others are still at 8k. But I doubt the cabin pressure is what's so exhausting. It's probably the fact that you're stuck on an airplane for 20+ hours.

The 777X will also have the same cabin pressure as the 787.

 

A bit off topic but seems like we have some aviation buffs here so thought I'd post a few aviation videos I came across recently. First two links are for an ITV series on Easyjet and a look at their cadet program and the last link is behind the scenes look at Singapore airlines.

 

 

 

 

Some biz jets are going to 6,000ft cabin altitude, others are still at 8k. But I doubt the cabin pressure is what's so exhausting. It's probably the fact that you're stuck on an airplane for 20+ hours.

 

 

You could always be on a C2 Greyhound in a hurricane 800 miles off the coast of Japan. #neveragain.

Some biz jets are going to 6,000ft cabin altitude, others are still at 8k. But I doubt the cabin pressure is what's so exhausting. It's probably the fact that you're stuck on an airplane for 20+ hours.

 

 

Here is what i've noticed, empirical things i've noticed over the years. Certainly not science.

 

 

I have been taking at least 2 international trips a year for the past 20 years, a few years there was only 1 trip(so 2 legs) and the most was 6(14 legs that year in 6 trips). Average would be 2.5 to 2.8 trips a year for the past 20 years. This is only international trips that are over 8 hours in length per leg. It's not a lot compared to a pilot or biz traveler. But more than the average person.

 

What i noticed is the 747's after 8 hours i need a shower bad, i feel sticky and have that long flight funk. Lucky for me i'm not a "funk" type of person but a 747 will do that to me every time. I'm also more fatigued than any other jet.

 

In a 777x I'm ok up til about 12 hours then I feel sticky and ready for a shower.

 

in a 787 while i dont like the comfort of the aircraft itself(seem more stiff and bumpy) I dont feel like a shower the minute i get out of the plane. The air quality in them is superior to the 747 & 777x.

 

Yesterday I was in a Airbus 340 from London to SFO for 11 hours and was fine after that trip, however Upper Class on Virgin was almost empty and the air was nice. Which brings me to this:

 

One thing I've noticed is Business and 1st class is the carriers in general are squeezing in more and more people, so while you still have the layflat bed in Upper Class in Virgin they can be a zillion people in the Upper Class cabin as they use a herringbone pattern to maximize space. So the air still sucks because when the load is high there are still to many people in the cabin, might as well be coach.

 

The density of people in the cabin have a huge impact on air quality in a flight, I was the only person in 1st class from Joberg SA to Atlanta years ago which is a 20 hour ordeal including a fuel stop, I had the entire nose of a 747 to myself. It was a huge room. That was my only experience on a 747 where I didn't feel the funk after 20 hours. I did walk back to Biz and coach during that trip and the air was so thick you could cut it with a knife. That experience is what woke me up to the passenger load/air quality index. There's no formal index but load size and air quality are related.

 

 

but in general yes the 787 has the best air, worst ride, but not much fatigue.

 

777x is the best overall.

 

747 is comfortable but air sucks(unless you have 350 sq ft to yourself), i'm more fatigued because of bad air, noise.

 

 

And as always flying private is the best.

Eric, you should try Etihad "The Residence".....it's calling your name.

 

 

Here is what i've noticed, empirical things i've noticed over the years. Certainly not science.

 

 

I have been taking at least 2 international trips a year for the past 20 years, a few years there was only 1 trip(so 2 legs) and the most was 6(14 legs that year in 6 trips). Average would be 2.5 to 2.8 trips a year for the past 20 years. This is only international trips that are over 8 hours in length per leg. It's not a lot compared to a pilot or biz traveler. But more than the average person.

 

What i noticed is the 747's after 8 hours i need a shower bad, i feel sticky and have that long flight funk. Lucky for me i'm not a "funk" type of person but a 747 will do that to me every time. I'm also more fatigued than any other jet.

 

In a 777x I'm ok up til about 12 hours then I feel sticky and ready for a shower.

 

in a 787 while i dont like the comfort of the aircraft itself(seem more stiff and bumpy) I dont feel like a shower the minute i get out of the plane. The air quality in them is superior to the 747 & 777x.

 

Yesterday I was in a Airbus 340 from London to SFO for 11 hours and was fine after that trip, however Upper Class on Virgin was almost empty and the air was nice. Which brings me to this:

 

One thing I've noticed is Business and 1st class is the carriers in general are squeezing in more and more people, so while you still have the layflat bed in Upper Class in Virgin they can be a zillion people in the Upper Class cabin as they use a herringbone pattern to maximize space. So the air still sucks because when the load is high there are still to many people in the cabin, might as well be coach.

 

The density of people in the cabin have a huge impact on air quality in a flight, I was the only person in 1st class from Joberg SA to Atlanta years ago which is a 20 hour ordeal including a fuel stop, I had the entire nose of a 747 to myself. It was a huge room. That was my only experience on a 747 where I didn't feel the funk after 20 hours. I did walk back to Biz and coach during that trip and the air was so thick you could cut it with a knife. That experience is what woke me up to the passenger load/air quality index. There's no formal index but load size and air quality are related.

 

 

but in general yes the 787 has the best air, worst ride, but not much fatigue.

 

777x is the best overall.

 

747 is comfortable but air sucks(unless you have 350 sq ft to yourself), i'm more fatigued because of bad air, noise.

 

 

And as always flying private is the best.

 

 

 

I never fly without this Eric you may want to get one

 

https://www.amazon.com/AirTamer-Rechargeabl...ifier&psc=1

 

Eric, you should try Etihad "The Residence".....it's calling your name.

 

 

You know me so well!!!!

 

Isn't that just the best!!! I'm going to give it a go someday. I've met one person who flew in it once and he said it was just fantastic!!

 

I'll let you know when I do.

 

 

90% of my international legs I fly are on VIrgin Atlantic or ANA(All Nippon Air) because I have millions of Amex points I built up 10-12 years ago and I pay EVERYTHING possible with my Amex. So MY international travel is pretty cheap. Otherwise i'd be blowing $50K/yr on tickets, Occasionally I do pay if I cant get a date I need or want.

 

I really do want to try "The Residence" and will sooner than later. For a special occasion.

 

 

I'm triple lucky I can travel again after all those back problems and while i complain about not having a jet, truth be told-i'm just glad to be able to travel!!! i've been very very lucky in my life.

 

thx very much!!

I never fly without this Eric you may want to get one

 

https://www.amazon.com/AirTamer-Rechargeabl...ifier&psc=1

 

 

wow that's great!!! I didn't know those existed. I'm in 100% thank you VERY MUCH!!! What a great plan. I've been seated in a cabin heard someone who is clearly sick and sure enough 2 days later i'm sick. I never fly sick-not cool.

 

again thank you very much!!! yay amazon!!!

 

wow that's great!!! I didn't know those existed. I'm in 100% thank you VERY MUCH!!! What a great plan. I've been seated in a cabin heard someone who is clearly sick and sure enough 2 days later i'm sick. I never fly sick-not cool.

 

again thank you very much!!! yay amazon!!!

 

Yeah gives you that nice "ionic air" smell and feel all around you. Knock on wood has worked great for me on domestic and international.

You know me so well!!!!

 

Isn't that just the best!!! I'm going to give it a go someday. I've met one person who flew in it once and he said it was just fantastic!!

 

I'll let you know when I do.

 

 

90% of my international legs I fly are on VIrgin Atlantic or ANA(All Nippon Air) because I have millions of Amex points I built up 10-12 years ago and I pay EVERYTHING possible with my Amex. So MY international travel is pretty cheap. Otherwise i'd be blowing $50K/yr on tickets, Occasionally I do pay if I cant get a date I need or want.

 

I really do want to try "The Residence" and will sooner than later. For a special occasion.

 

 

I'm triple lucky I can travel again after all those back problems and while i complain about not having a jet, truth be told-i'm just glad to be able to travel!!! i've been very very lucky in my life.

 

thx very much!!

 

Anytime man!!

 

Plane boarding starts at 8:19

 

 

 

I'd love to play hi stakes backgammon on that jet!

I never fly without this Eric you may want to get one

 

https://www.amazon.com/AirTamer-Rechargeabl...ifier&psc=1

 

You just changed the game

 

You could always be on a C2 Greyhound in a hurricane 800 miles off the coast of Japan. #neveragain.

 

 

My worst was trying to RTB from Afghanistan. Had Iran on my right, Pakistan on my left, and a thunderstorm 100 miles wide in front of me. Had to climb up to FL420 and even barely get over it. The two heavies in front of me and the one behind me all under/over G'd on the way back. We were the only ones to get through it without a scratch. But damn if I didn't have my harness cinched down TIGHT.

Could you dumb this down for this civilian? I have almost no idea what you just said! But I love your posts and the glimpses you give into being one of our country's heroes.

Yeah gives you that nice "ionic air" smell and feel all around you. Knock on wood has worked great for me on domestic and international.

That ionic smell is ozone...which is not good to breathe. We had a whole house ionizer in our last house when we moved in. Removed it after reading up on the health effects. Read about it here.

Could you dumb this down for this civilian? I have almost no idea what you just said! But I love your posts and the glimpses you give into being one of our country's heroes.

 

Haha, sure.

 

So going "home" after a mission over Afghanistan, we fly a route called the "boulevard" that is over western Pakistan (on the border with Iran) and dumps out into the Arabian Sea.

 

Basically Pakistan and the US have an agreement where we get to use that airspace, it's not very wide and we kind of split it up in halfs with inbound traffic on the east side and outbound on the west (imagine a highway). It normally works well but when there is weather on the route it can become a shit show because we are vary limited on going around it due to the limited lateral airspace. We, obviously, can't go into Iran and Pakistan doesn't always let us go very far beyond the dimensions of the boulevard further into their airspace.

 

So really that only lets us go vertical and try and get OVER the storm. That usually works decently well but this was a monster of a storm and went really really high up.

 

The other jets that over/under G'd did it while in Afghanistan on the way to the boulevard. Basically, the windshear and turbulence was so bad that it moved the airplane around above the manufacturers suggested limit...which on a heavy aircraft (KC-135, RC-135, KC-10, C-5, etc) is much smaller than a fighter. A fighter was designed to pull G's, the big boy's aren't. And, especially with negative G's, the limit is very small.

 

 

Here ya go singleseat:

Thanks for the explanations. Figured out most of it now. What's FL420? How do you under G, get pushed down?

 

The boulevard over Pakistan sheds a little light into how we justify sending them billions every year.

Thanks for the explanations. Figured out most of it now. What's FL420? How do you under G, get pushed down?

 

The boulevard over Pakistan sheds a little light into how we justify sending them billions every year.

 

Flight level 420, so 42,000 feet. Which is about as high as I can get in my particular plane.

 

And correct, any sudden downdraft would be a negative G.

Here ya go singleseat:

Well, I just came back from a trip which provided the opportunities for 2 long-haul and 2 medium-haul flights on a 787; a medium-haul flight on a 777 and a medium-haul flight on an A380.

 

I'm still not a fan of the 787. It's kind of small and it easily gets upset on turbulent air probably due to its light weight. The 380 is nice on the upper deck; probably not so much on the lower deck especially if one is in the economy cabin. Merely waiting for the bathroom woukd likely take a while. The A380 is the quietest of the trio and not just because I was on the upper deck, I generally find the newer Airbuses (A340, A340, A321 and the A380) to be quieter than their Boeing counterparts. The 777, comparatively speaking, is old school but it gets my vote. Size is about right and generally offer the comfort needed for long-haul flights. It does, however, has a slower crushing speed.

 

I also like to echo what was said about specifying the cabin of the craft. All the things about lower cabin pressure is more academic and a selling gimmick. I am sure it plays a role but so does the seating config, the seat adjustability, the amenities and services provided. Everything is equally important to ensure one stays fresh after a flight. I will say that I simply hate the fishbone/angled seating config.! It's how the airlines maximizes their sitting capacities at the expense of passenger comfort. It screws up one's sense of traveling vector: you are not facing forward or backward of your direction of travel but at an angle instead. It's actually worse when you are in lay-flat seats because you are lying down not paralleled to the direction of your travel. Most modern flat seats are designed like a pod or a cubical so there is a bit of claustrophobia involved. Add a few turbulence and unless one is a seasoned passenger, it can really mess up one's senses. I had seen many people getting airsick from these seating. (Try sitting at a back seat of a car, sit behind the driver but angle yourself with your legs and torso positioning behind the front passenger. Close your eyes and take a ride and you'll have an idea on what I mean; now imagine doing that at 10X the speed and with some bumps which aren't just the uneven surfaces of the roads.). I'm used to it but I cannot say I like it one single bit.

Great update VCR!

 

Emirates will fly the 777 but not the 787. I wager that is not by accident, even with nearly a hundred 380s in service.

 

Which airlines fly the angled configuration? I can't say I recall seeing one.

Which airlines fly the angled configuration? I can't say I recall seeing one.

 

There are quite a few actually. Most long-haul Air Canada flights are in that config. Medium-haul Japan Airlines and All Nippon Airways are like that too (interestingly enough, they use the regular config. on their long-haul flights). Cathay Pacific medium and long-haul flights are also angled. I think some flights of both China Airlines (which is actually Taiwan-based) and EVA Air use the angled config. as well. Pretty sure AA's seats are angled too. Their 1st Class seats aren't as angled as their biz class ones though.

There are quite a few actually. Most long-haul Air Canada flights are in that config. Medium-haul Japan Airlines and All Nippon Airways are like that too (interestingly enough, they use the regular config. on their long-haul flights). Cathay Pacific medium and long-haul flights are also angled. I think some flights of both China Airlines (which is actually Taiwan-based) and EVA Air use the angled config. as well. Pretty sure AA's seats are angled too. Their 1st Class seats aren't as angled as their biz class ones though.

 

 

China Eastern's 773 also has angled seats. ANA's J product on the 789 is good but they're switching it out for the 788 for the winter schedule which has the awful cradle seats, no lie flat. Basically a regional J product on an international route.

China Eastern's 773 also has angled seats. ANA's J product on the 789 is good but they're switching it out for the 788 for the winter schedule which has the awful cradle seats, no lie flat. Basically a regional J product on an international route.

 

You are correct. Forgot about the China Eastern. IIRC, China Southern is in midst of converting to the angled seats for their biz-class too. I am never much of a fan of ANA. Don't get me wrong, they try really hard; sort of like Hertz vs. Budget on the car rental world; some of their flight attendants do put in extra efforts to make the passengers feel special. But ANA's cabin config are always weird (as noted by you) and their schedules often conflict with their most ideal connecting flights; sometimes even at the wrong airport. There's an inside joke about ANA's name in Japanese which renders them never able to reach the top; but that's another story...

 

Hong Kong Airlines just took delivery of an A350 yesterday; the first of their 21 A350 fleet. Hopefully, I'll get to try it in the not-so-distant future. Regrets for the OT.