The Benz Driver who killed the guy in Scottsdale

Just playing devil's advocate, but like Cola said, how would the witnesses know what 100+ mph looks like?

 

 

Easy.... the witnesses (if they WERE eyewitnesses as opposed to Experts) werent standing on the side of the road watching. They were in cars.... Probably traveling in the same direction as the defendants, and its pretty easy to judge speed by looking down at your speedometer and realizing "Im going 50, and he just FLEW by me at twice my speed."

1 idiot Benz driver off the road, 99,999,998 to go.

Im not sure what the court document is (A little early for a Grand jury to return an indictment, but you never know, they may have rushed to present it to the grand jury because their term may be ending today),

 

I'd be surprised if something like this even had to go through a grand jury... typically things like this don't.

I'd be surprised if something like this even had to go through a grand jury... typically things like this don't.

 

 

Its MURDER....

Its a FELONY....

 

IT DOESNT GET MORE SERIOUS THAN THIS.

 

It either goes to the grand jury (The most usual) or a Preliminary hearing.... IT HAS TO GO through one or the other.

 

 

 

http://www.azleg.state.az.us/FormatDocumen...amp;DocType=ARS

 

A. Except as provided in section 13-604, subsection S or section 13-604.01, a person who stands convicted of second degree murder as defined by section 13-1104 shall be sentenced to a presumptive term of sixteen calendar years. The presumptive term imposed pursuant to this subsection may be mitigated or aggravated by up to six years pursuant to the terms of section 13-702, subsections C and D.

 

Ok... Lets figure he gets 50% off for good behavior- (I cant think of any mitigating circumstances.... He has a family? Yeah... So did the guy he killed.) Thats 8 years in prison.... He'll be 50 when he gets out.

Ok... Lets figure he gets 50% off for good behavior- (I cant think of any mitigating circumstances.... He has a family? Yeah... So did the guy he killed.) Thats 8 years in prison.... He'll be 50 when he gets out.

 

RomanDad -- I suggest you Google some street racing convictions. They're never convicted of second-degree murder, even in significantly more serious circumstances than this. It's just not going to happen.

 

RomanDad -- I suggest you Google some street racing convictions. They're never convicted of second-degree murder, even in significantly more serious circumstances than this. It's just not going to happen.

considering the exotic/fast car climate (ie, 219mph) in the area, all bets are off.

 

considering the exotic/fast car climate (ie, 219mph) in the area, all bets are off.

 

Exactly. Due to the recent big "219mph" press, there will be no plea offered, period. Particularly as the prosecution gets more details regarding this shit-for-brains' driving style and online persona. They absolutely WILL be using his inflammatory pro-racing statements from message boards against him, Joe you're wrong on this one.

 

Citizens in the area will demand a crackdown, and our good buddy BlueMax is the perfect nail to hammer.

 

I stand by my original estiamte: Guilty of Vehicular Manslaughter, 5-7 year sentence with 50% reduction for good behavior. Don't worry, just as he's hitting 40 and provided his parole officer lets him, Allan will be happy to put him behind the counter at the DQ for nine bucks an hour to get his life back on track.

The talk of the old Camaro not being as strong as newer cars is CRAZY! Sure they don't have crumple zones like newer cars, those cars were tanks! Cars have to have crumple zones today to protect the passengers, back then it was more like build the thing like a brick shit house and do the best you can to keep the car in one piece (study older car bumper designs, they were actually designed to do damage to the vehicle they hit!). If anyone doubts that take a look at some of these old cars that are used for demolition derbies!

 

IMO these guys hit the Camaro at well over 100mph. I can't believe how wide open that street is, no chance of something like this happening in Miami, TOO MUCH DAMN TRAFFIC!

Exactly. Due to the recent big "219mph" press, there will be no plea offered, period. Particularly as the prosecution gets more details regarding this shit-for-brains' driving style and online persona. They absolutely WILL be using his inflammatory pro-racing statements from message boards against him, Joe you're wrong on this one.

 

Citizens in the area will demand a crackdown, and our good buddy BlueMax is the perfect nail to hammer.

 

I stand by my original estiamte: Guilty of Vehicular Manslaughter, 5-7 year sentence with 50% reduction for good behavior. Don't worry, just as he's hitting 40 and provided his parole officer lets him, Allan will be happy to put him behind the counter at the DQ for nine bucks an hour to get his life back on track.

Nine bucks an hour? Are you crazy? Thats what the manager makes!

 

Nine bucks an hour? Are you crazy? Thats what the manager makes!

So you will hire him then?

Nine bucks an hour? Are you crazy? Thats what the manager makes!

 

:lol2:

The recent AZ crackdown was DUI ... now in 08, if you're convicted of DUI, you get a MINIMUM of 10 DAYS of sheriff Joe's pink underwear and spoiled bologna ... plus, add a breath test ignition system to get your car started.

 

This is an example of Arizona legislature / judiciary going for the jugular when the local media storm gets behind a public nuisance. If BlueFuck is convicted, you can bet an example will be made of him, FOLLOWED by proposed legislation in the state legislature. This state is very predictable.

Where is Juicee63? Is he out hunting wabbits?

The talk of the old Camaro not being as strong as newer cars is CRAZY! Sure they don't have crumple zones like newer cars, those cars were tanks! Cars have to have crumple zones today to protect the passengers, back then it was more like build the thing like a brick shit house and do the best you can to keep the car in one piece (study older car bumper designs, they were actually designed to do damage to the vehicle they hit!). If anyone doubts that take a look at some of these old cars that are used for demolition derbies!

 

IMO these guys hit the Camaro at well over 100mph. I can't believe how wide open that street is, no chance of something like this happening in Miami, TOO MUCH DAMN TRAFFIC!

 

I get what you mean, and again I am NO EXPERT, but I remember watching a car show where they were discussing the difference between the builds of old cars and today's, and they slammed an old car head-on into a light pole, and that pole just tore right through that car front to back, it tore it in half.

 

With the newer car, the crumple zones crumpled and the frame of the car prevented the pole from tearing through it. The occupants would be jolted obviously, but the airbags would have cushioned them as best as possible.

 

This old car was on of those 1950s or 1960s land yachts.

 

Those cars, if you bumped into them, they were like a tank, whereas with a modern car, if you bump it, the crumple zones cause them to get damaged very easily.

 

But if you crash one of those old cars into like a telephone pole, it just rips through it, whereas with the newer car that has the crumple zones, this won't happen.

 

So maybe that Camaro was built similar to the old cars, like a tank for light bumps, but when smashed into by two vehicles, it tore in half...

 

New cars and old cars are stronger and weaker than each other in different ways.

 

Easy.... the witnesses (if they WERE eyewitnesses as opposed to Experts) werent standing on the side of the road watching. They were in cars.... Probably traveling in the same direction as the defendants, and its pretty easy to judge speed by looking down at your speedometer and realizing "Im going 50, and he just FLEW by me at twice my speed."

 

Ahh, okay, I hadn't thought about the witnesses being experts, and when I thought of eyewitnesses, I was imagining people standing on the side of the road who saw two cars go by, and then said, "WOW! Those things are doing 100 mph!"

Right or wrong, speeding or not, racing or not, old guy turning or not, I'd hate to have to dig myself out of that one. I am not going to make any judgments based on what the press has reported so far, but even in the best of circumstances, construing everything in favor of the defendants, they are not going to have an easy time of it. And, if there is any truth to the allegations of racing, they could be looking at some time. (The guy in Queens, NY got a pretty good sentence for street racing his POS against a then brand new 6.0 Diablo, which careened head-on into on-coming traffic, killing several).

Aside from criminal charges, there will likely be a civil case. Even if these guys dance through the raindrops, it is not going to be a pleasant several years, at best.

 

Just when i think i have seen and heard it all someone comes along and proves otherwise.I lost faith in mankind long time ago and some of the material i have read on this thread confirms my thoughts.

 

However,i find it refreshing that so many members of our board display such wisdom,some beyond their years.

Is this the article Roman was referring to?

 

Drivers racing before deadly crash, witnesses say

Cars topped 100 mph before ex-lawmaker hit

Carol Sowers

The Republic | azcentral.com

Dec. 31, 2007 02:07 PM

 

Two drivers suspected of killing a former state legislator in a three-car crash were racing at speeds of more than 100 mph in a 45 mph zone, according to witness statements contained in a court document.

 

Cal Holman, 76, a Paradise Valley representative from 1975 to 1985, was ejected when the cars slammed into his Camaro near Scottsdale Road and Eastwood Lane on Friday.

 

Drivers Robert Van Brakel, 42,of Phoenix, and Travis Aronica, 25, of Canton, Mich., were each arrested on one count of second-degree murder. They posted $25,000 bond and have been released from a Maricopa County jail.

 

 

 

They are scheduled to appear for a status conference at 8:30 a.m., Friday in Maricopa County Superior Court.

 

According to the court document, the two men were racing north on Scottsdale Road, Aronica's Mustang in the right lane, Van Brakel's white Mercedes sedan in the left.

 

Meanwhile, Holman was driving his white Chevrolet Camaro south on Scottsdale Road, making a left turn onto Eastwood Lane.

 

As the two speeding cars approached Eastwood, Van Brakel "could not stop his vehicle and struck the Camaro on the passenger side," the court document said.

 

Aronica's Mustang struck next. The impact flipped the Mustang upside down in a ditch. Holman was thrown 75 feet in the air. He died at the scene.

 

Aronica was treated for a broken arm. His passenger suffered minor injuries.

 

 

Sounds like the criminal complaint was filed with their first court date being on Friday. Not sure if its a grand jury district or prelim district but it would be interesting to see what sort of evidence they have lined up this quickly.

 

 

Colo, you don't need witnesses to show that those cars were going ~100mph. Look at Allans pics in the other thread, the mustang flew another 200ft after basically hitting a 3,400lb steel wall

Colo, you don't need witnesses to show that those cars were going ~100mph. Look at Allans pics in the other thread, the mustang flew another 200ft after basically hitting a 3,400lb steel wall

And the accident investigator will look deeply into this to determine a speed. They rarely get these speeds wrong when all is said and done, and the road was closed for a long time so they could take accurate measurements.

Sad story all the way around. Not to hijack the thread - but did anyyhing ever happen to the 219MPH driver?

Or is that issue over? I noticed the AZ news used some of the footage for part of this story.

Kevin S.

Orchard Park, NY

Sad story all the way around. Not to hijack the thread - but did anyyhing ever happen to the 219MPH driver?

Or is that issue over? I noticed the AZ news used some of the footage for part of this story.

Kevin S.

Orchard Park, NY

 

We have not heard anything since. I'm guessing they may tend to shy away from that now that there is this new turkey to fry. Its bigger knews that just some guy driving fast that didn't kill anyone.

 

You knew something like this was going to happen after reading half the posts in MBWorld.....Sad it had to end in such a way.

update:

http://www.azcentral.com/community/scottsdale/

The article says that both men have been convicted of several offences. Can anyone elaborate on that? Shes going after bluemax's company too? Does anyone know much about the size of the company?