AZ Mercedes Accident scene pics and Info.

lol... I can see the Scottsdale DA sitting and reading through this thread and going....

 

I think the 27 pages covered all the pros and cons arguments very well, it's like watching the OJ Simpson trial all over again... We are not going to hear from the courts anything that was not mentioned in that thread so let the chips fall where they fall...

 

Romandad, why don't you make your closing arguments so we can put this thread to rest, at least until some major developments will happen..

 

Closing argument-

 

Closing argument-

 

Objection your honor !!!

 

 

Manipulating the jury...

Objection your honor !!!

Manipulating the jury...

Theres always this one.

I dont like to keep changing scenarios... What ifs.... If he were a cop, or an ice cream truck or a UFO.....what he was, is what hes being punished for, and yeah, I think a few examples need to made.... Ive got a wife and a kid... And they drive these roads, and I dont want either of them killed by some shit-head going at race track speeds because they have an inferiority complex and feel the need to prove something to somebody....

 

People have made the point that street racing has been around for 50 years and was maybe even more prevalent then.... The difference is twenty and thirty and forty years ago, the cars were not capable of going close to what they are now.... And its not just the performance cars, any more.... Shit... Any honda shitbox can go zero to 60 in 6 seconds now... 20 years ago numbers like that were reserved to the high performance cars. Bluemax was in the FAMILY SEDAN for gods sake....

 

One of two things is going to happen- People who CAUSE The damage are going to be severly punished, or, eventually, somebody will introduce a "no high performace cars" bill- Theyve tried before.... Putting 60MPH limiters on cars etc... and that will be that for people who want to own these cars and drive them responsibly. So fcuk him... He can rot.

 

I don't think my example was too far fetched because older drivers are getting t-boned every day of the week! Its another issue, best discussed in another thread though, and I believe bluemax and the other guy share 99% of the blame... it is the absense willfull crimminal intent on their part that makes me feel the law is comming down to hard on them.

 

Anyway, I was feeling you out.... man, you are a hardass!

 

I share the same concerns about all of these idiots brazenly speeding/ posting stupid vids on the net and generally ruining a good thing for the rest of us. Sooner or later the law will take note and come down on all of us!

 

I don't think my example was too far fetched because older drivers are getting t-boned every day of the week! Its another issue, best discussed in another thread though, and I believe bluemax and the other guy share 99% of the blame... it is the absense willfull crimminal intent on their part that makes me feel the law is comming down to hard on them.

 

Anyway, I was feeling you out.... man, you are a hardass!

 

I share the same concerns about all of these idiots brazenly speeding/ posting stupid vids on the net and generally ruining a good thing for the rest of us. Sooner or later the law will take note and come down on all of us!

 

 

Im really not that much of a hardass.... Youll notice I havent mentioned too much about the mustang driver... I have no dog in this fight.... I dont know bluemax, I dont know the mustang driver and I dont know Holman... If there is going to be compassion in this case, I say it goes to the 25 year old (who probably SHOULD know better- but hes got SOME excuse in that hes an immature idiot)....

 

But when it comes to the 40 year old, I have almost no sympathy. Hes old enough, and smart enough and succesful enough that he has NO EXCUSES for his gross recklessness, and he has to pay the consequences... HE KNEW what he was doing was illegal. HE KNEW IT WAS DANGEROUS and he KNEW IF HE HIT SOMEBODY HE WOULD KILL THEM.... HE DIDNT CARE. So society needs to be protected from him because he just doesn't give a shit...

 

I didnt write the law, but I have no problem with its implementation....

Theres always this one.

 

Judge : "That's all you got council ?" , "you will have to do better then that or I will have to instruct the jury to ignore your closing arguments.. "

 

[Yeah and one of the principles of justice is the punishment should fit the crime. There are better ways to make bluemax pay for his crime/stupidity.... a short jail term, lawsuits, community service fines, etc.

 

Points of law aside, do you think a jail term of 5 years or more is appropiate in this case, based on what we know? I wouldn't be arguing the point if bluemax plowed into some cars at a red light or took out a school bus... but there was an element of fate and bad luck invovled with this accident.

 

Not to slander the old man... but imagine a scenario where an unmarked police cruiser was speeding down the road on PD business and the same accident happened...no one would be blaming the police officer for the accident]

 

Totally agree with this. The hypocrisy about fast cars in our society is just disgusting. The movie industry and the taxman make billions selling and glamoring speed and fast cars and yet everyone is expected to meet speed limits. That confuses the hell out of young kids. Our whole society is about speed which everyway it comes. Yes they are people who are in need to learn a way better judgment but if we are judging so harshly guys speeding then what attracts us to exotics? The look? The attention? If I were to marry a super-model, I would not want to just look at her or be seen in parties. That would actually be the least of my wants…We all know why we are attracted to exotics, let’s be honest. Most of us just have more moderation and better judgment about the place and the time for doing things, how far to go and when to stop. So I would agree that this case should serve as a stern remainder of what can happen when one loses that judgment to one’s ego. Street racing is about ego. These 2 guys just stopped thinking for a very short while to please the ego. We need to reflect on that and learn. That is a more powerful message that any law can do IMO.

 

And yes, police is no different; they are human with flaws too. Read this:

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/21/2128.asp

http://www.nbc11.com/news/14962211/detail.html

 

These guys are supposed to teach you about judgment right?

 

And imagine that hit would be you grand mother crossing the road:

http://www.car-videos.net/download052207/crashes/DeerHit.wmv

 

I am sure we could a few judges too.

Whats the purpose of putting him away for that long? To punish him so he never does it again? I'm sure he realizes that as is.

 

 

He may realize that but I believe there should be 2 reasons for jail sentences in a case like this.

 

Deterrant for others (and of course the guilty party).

Punishment for harm done to another, in this case death.

 

If my daughter was killed in such a manner, the reckless or negligent acts of someone who should be in control of themselves, I would at the very least want to know that they are being punished severely.

 

My punishment is that my daughter (or father, brother, whatever) gets killed and I never get to speak with them again. They don't get to become what they could have been, they do not get to make peace with their family before death, they simply get killed.

 

Someone losing their license for a couple of years and doing community service, even them losing their business and feeling shame, simply does not come close to the punishment bestowed on my and my family. That is in my opinion of course.

 

If Bluemax was to get a light punishment for this, IMO all it would encourage is for lots more street racing to occur.

 

People would reason, "Hey man, yeah, you get some community service and a hefty fine if you accidentally kill someone, but otherwise, the penalty isn't that bad."

 

That would encourage a lot more racing.

 

But reasoning, "You race and kill someone and you go to anal-rape prison for multiple years," will stop it.

 

I can understand maybe a lighter punishment for really young folk who just do a STOOPID act, such as an eighteen year-old, but Bluemax is 42.

It stuns and saddens me to see what great lengths some of you go through to justify the loss of life that occurred here. Trivializing this event to make you feel better because your driving actions, in some fasion, mirror the accused is about the most self-serving act I can think of. I'm sure your opinion on this subject would drastically change if you had a loved one in your life to look out for besides yourself.

Point in case..............as I was out tonight in the lambo. I stopped at a gas station to get a bottled water with a buddy in chandler. A car none other than a MUSTANG is parked next to me, his buddy in the store behind me in line getting something. I leave, he leaves, guess who gets followed for the next 4 miles weaving in and out of lanes, revving his engine, doing whatever he can to provoke a race. My buddy that was with is not used to being in a lambo or F-car or any car that attracts attention and he was ready to pull over and KILL these two kids that could have been no older than in thier early 20's. I was like dude just let it go, they are fcuking morons. It will never end and more people will get hurt and get killed because of idoits like this that are on the road. I am no saint but I was very selective of where and when I would do any kind of fast driving when I did do it. Since this incident with bluemax has happened I've been even more carful and more tolerant of the asswipes that are out there trying to provoke a race.

I had a similar incident with a POS Thursday, on Scottsdale Road no less.

I didnt even participate.

Following up what would happen if a judge kills someone here it is:

 

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2007/03/bushc...be_inves_1.html

 

This occured last year in the great state Connecticut who is fiercely fighting speeders. The judge is related to Bush no less. The killed is a cop no less.

 

Enough said about fairness and justice. Read between the lines. So being harsh seem to apply to all equally but some more than others.

Following up what would happen if a judge kills someone here it is:

 

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2007/03/bushc...be_inves_1.html

 

This occured last year in the great state Connecticut who is fiercely fighting speeders. The judge is related to Bush no less. The killed is a cop no less.

 

Enough said about fairness and justice. Read between the lines. So being harsh seem to apply to all equally but some more than others.

Visibility was poor where the accident happened

 

not a close parallel.

Following up what would happen if a judge kills someone here it is:

 

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2007/03/bushc...be_inves_1.html

 

This occured last year in the great state Connecticut who is fiercely fighting speeders. The judge is related to Bush no less. The killed is a cop no less.

 

Enough said about fairness and justice. Read between the lines. So being harsh seem to apply to all equally but some more than others.

 

 

Sorry .. I dont see anywhere in that article where the Judge is reported to have been driving recklessly... In fact there are other reports that he was driving quite slowly and the reduced visibility was the main cause of the accident.

 

NOBODY is saying that if the arizona accident happened at NORMAL speeds for a 45 zone (meaning 10-15 MPH over even) that the drivers should still be charged with the crimes with which they've been charged.... Or that EVERY car accident that results in death is a crime....

 

This was NOT a run of the mill, day in, day out, car wreck. It was the inevitable result of two cars racing each other at tripple digit speeds down a busy city street. AND THAT WRINKLE, of EXTREME RECKLESSNESS is what makes it a crime.

Death sentence for capital murder doesn't stop people from killing each other does it?

 

If putting him away serves the purpose you're saying, there are other ways to stop it without putting him away and ruining his and his families lives.

Extremely strict speeding laws to begin with...

 

 

Brilliant!

 

...because *surely* if the speed limit had been 35 instead of 45, he would not have been going 120, right?

 

 

Sorry .. I dont see anywhere in that article where the Judge is reported to have been driving recklessly... In fact there are other reports that he was driving quite slowly and the reduced visibility was the main cause of the accident.

 

NOBODY is saying that if the arizona accident happened at NORMAL speeds for a 45 zone (meaning 10-15 MPH over even) that the drivers should still be charged with the crimes with which they've been charged.... Or that EVERY car accident that results in death is a crime....

 

This was NOT a run of the mill, day in, day out, car wreck. It was the inevitable result of two cars racing each other at tripple digit speeds down a busy city street. AND THAT WRINKLE, of EXTREME RECKLESSNESS is what makes it a crime.

 

This is clearly bias, the Judge killed an officer directing traffic wearing a reflective vest. No where in any article does it state the Judge was driving "slow". The judge was not tested, he was let go. A man died because of an accident and it is likely the Judge mad a critical error by not watchingthe road. The bias is clear in the media, notice the article points out , dimly lit street, it accentuates anything that would justify not ticketing the Judge.

 

You not seeing the bias here is shocking. I agree the cases are different but the Judge should have recieved a ticket for something? He ran a guy over , just like if you ran a light or failed to stop, obviously running over the guy directing traffic is AVOIDABLE

 

It stuns and saddens me to see what great lengths some of you go through to justify the loss of life that occurred here. Trivializing this event to make you feel better because your driving actions, in some fasion, mirror the accused is about the most self-serving act I can think of. I'm sure your opinion on this subject would drastically change if you had a loved one in your life to look out for besides yourself.

 

Nail on the head.

 

It's sickening watching some of the people here make excuses for this guy - lines like "what good does putting him away for so long do?". Sentences are not about imposing a harsh penalty upon someone to "make them realize" what they did was wrong. Part of it is making an example, part of it is retribution for what was done, and part of it is keeping that person away from the rest of us for a period of time. The silly argument of "he knows what he did" only applies to the 2nd part, and it's incredibly ignorant and arrogant to think that's the only part that counts.

 

Its like if your wife is driving home from work - suddenly some teenager kid jumps into the road in front of her car playing chicken. She freaks, slams on the brakes and swerves - into an oncoming car and dies. Then while you are grieving the loss of your wife and trying to even imagine the anger and hate you have towards the kid, everyone is saying "hey the kid was just messing around, he didn't know what could happen and didn't mean to kill anyone, he should get 3 months in jail MAX". Meanwhile your kids have no mom, you lost a big chunk of your income, your best friend, partner, etc. And everyone says "hey we need to keep this in perspective, it was just a kid messing around, no need to ruin their life over this".

 

 

Nail on the head.

 

It's sickening watching some of the people here make excuses for this guy - lines like "what good does putting him away for so long do?". Sentences are not about imposing a harsh penalty upon someone to "make them realize" what they did was wrong. Part of it is making an example, part of it is retribution for what was done, and part of it is keeping that person away from the rest of us for a period of time. The silly argument of "he knows what he did" only applies to the 2nd part, and it's incredibly ignorant and arrogant to think that's the only part that counts.

 

Its like if your wife is driving home from work - suddenly some teenager kid jumps into the road in front of her car playing chicken. She freaks, slams on the brakes and swerves - into an oncoming car and dies. Then while you are grieving the loss of your wife and trying to even imagine the anger and hate you have towards the kid, everyone is saying "hey the kid was just messing around, he didn't know what could happen and didn't mean to kill anyone, he should get 3 months in jail MAX". Meanwhile your kids have no mom, you lost a big chunk of your income, your best friend, partner, etc. And everyone says "hey we need to keep this in perspective, it was just a kid messing around, no need to ruin their life over this".

 

Ditto

 

This is clearly bias, the Judge killed an officer directing traffic wearing a reflective vest. No where in any article does it state the Judge was driving "slow". The judge was not tested, he was let go. A man died because of an accident and it is likely the Judge mad a critical error by not watchingthe road. The bias is clear in the media, notice the article points out , dimly lit street, it accentuates anything that would justify not ticketing the Judge.

 

You not seeing the bias here is shocking. I agree the cases are different but the Judge should have recieved a ticket for something? He ran a guy over , just like if you ran a light or failed to stop, obviously running over the guy directing traffic is AVOIDABLE

 

 

Juice, will you shut the fcuk up already....

 

Maybe you havent been around here long enough to figure this out, or you just haven't been paying enough attention, but I dont just talk out of my ass... I dont state something as factual unless I know what Im talking about and I can back it up.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_M._Walker,_Jr.

 

Fatal traffic accident

 

On the evening of October 17, 2006, as he began his drive home to Madison, Walker's Ford Escape automobile struck a police officer named Daniel Picagli on Chapel Street in New Haven, Connecticut. The officer, who was dressed in dark clothing and may have been wearing reflective gear, was directing traffic at a road construction site for AT&T in rush hour at dusk in the rain.[1] [2] There were no construction signs or traffic cones marking off the site.[3] Picagli died four days later on October 21, 2006.[4] Walker stopped immediately, and New Haven police have said the cause was not related to drugs or alcohol.[5] Police were initially interested in whether speed could have been a factor;[5] an article about the police investigation reports that Walker "was traveling at a slow speed through the dark and rainy construction site."[6] In March 2007, police forwarded the results of their investigation into Picagli's death to the state's attorney who would determine whether to bring a criminal case against Walker.[7] After review, the prosecutor declined to press charges, saying nothing indicated "intentional, negligent or reckless conduct" by Walker.[8]

 

Talk out of your ass one more time and Im banning you, regardless of how much entertainment allan gets from your bullshit.

 

 

Juice, will you shut the fcuk up already....

 

 

Talk out of your ass one more time and Im banning you, regardless of how much entertainment allan gets from your bullshit.

 

 

 

The dude just blamed the judge and said it's totally his fault (obviously not), then flips around and claims Bluemax is innocent. He's obviously a total idiot. I change my tune. Ban this fucktard. He's not entertaining anymore.

 

Juice, will you shut the fcuk up already....

 

Maybe you havent been around here long enough to figure this out, or you just haven't been paying enough attention, but I dont just talk out of my ass... I dont state something as factual unless I know what Im talking about and I can back it up.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_M._Walker,_Jr.

Talk out of your ass one more time and Im banning you, regardless of how much entertainment allan gets from your bullshit.

 

So he was driving slow, he ran over an officer of the law and killed him. My post was not intended to question you , it was more about bias in reporting and the treatment of a suspect. I read all the available articles prior to posting a response to you, none of them mention "slow driving". It matters not I have thanked you time and time again here for even spending time discussing , yet you attack and chastise, call me names now you threaten to ban me , why? I see bias here , and you do not, so anyone who disagrees with you shall be banned? If this was a plumber or a salesman rather than a Judge the man would have at the very least been given a road side test. Accidents happen but I do not think you can blame a guy directing traffic for being run down by a Ford Escape and being killed no less. He is a 1st cousin once removed of our current President, he was given special treatment in the press and by the police. This is my opinion. In Maricopa County a man in a pickup ran a red light while looking for a dropped cell phone, he was not speeding, is he guilty of a crime? 5 people died in the car he hit. How many times must I say I appreciate your thoughts and posts before you understand I am being sincere? I am not saying this stuff to anger you, agitate, stir things up, I am simply posting my opinion and my apologies to you if you mis read me. Have a great day,

 

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2007/03/bushc...be_inves_1.html

http://www.boston.com/news/local/connectic...ral_judge_dies/

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-1...e-officer_x.htm

http://www.correntewire.com/wanna_kill_a_c...e_a_bush_cousin

http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2006Oct19/0,4...erCrash,00.html

 

 

 

The dude just blamed the judge and said it's totally his fault (obviously not), then flips around and claims Bluemax is innocent. He's obviously a total idiot. I change my tune. Ban this fucktard. He's not entertaining anymore.

 

 

I did not Blame the Judge????? I said he was treated differently , and he was. What if that guy was your father, you would be cool withthe fact the guy who killed him ran him down w/o consequence? I also never claimed Bluemax was innocent. I stand by the reconstructionist and the data recovered from the car. You my friend are a simpleton.

I did not Blame the Judge????? I said he was treated differently , and he was. What if that guy was your father, you would be cool withthe fact the guy who killed him ran him down w/o consequence? I also never claimed Bluemax was innocent. I stand by the reconstructionist and the data recovered from the car. You my friend are a simpleton.

 

 

The situation with the judge was 100% pure accident. It's not even worth debating. I think it's time for you to go..

The situation with the judge was 100% pure accident. It's not even worth debating. I think it's time for you to go..

 

It was not my post bringing up the Judge, I was responding to a member here who obviously feels there was is some bias. If you dont think it happens than keep living the fantasy.

 

100%pure accident? Comon man a guy is dead and someone should take responsibility for it. Im sure the officer fell under the SUV's tire. An officer of the Law directing traffic is similarto a stop sign or a traffic signal, you approach with caution looking at the officer until you have cleared him. He was run down and died, you say 100% accident, I disagree wholeheardetly. You wanna ban me for that , fine,