McLaren MP4-12C master thread, details

well we know that from MCLAREN figures

 

 

Then we nothing for sure... customers cars will tell.

Then we nothing for sure... customers cars will tell.

well yea i agree with you but i don't think mclaren will give false figures on it's first car

It's not about performance figures, all these cars are fast as hell.

 

The McLaren is getting immense praise because it handles the street like a luxury car and the track like an F1 car in a way that hasn't happened previously.

 

Plus it is loaded-beyond-loaded with cutting edge tech that actually applies even to the weekend warrior, unlike most racing tech for the street which is simply bullshit PR as Ferrari uses constantly "F1 Superfast2 Formula One Transmission"

 

It's not about the numbers, it's about how leagues ahead of everything else the MP4-12C is in multiple metrics of measurement as everyone who has driven it has stated it is. Acceleration times are just a small portion of that.

 

Accept reality, it is what it is. It doesn't mean that going for a Lambo, Porsche, or Ferrari is any less smart or uninformed. It just means there's a new #1 and everyone else now is tasked with surpassing it.

If I may Mako...

 

If history is to be believed, then the auto company to which this forum is dedicated was formed with very different goals....one-upmanship.

Going a bit off-topic, there are actually quite a lot of parallels between McLaren now and Lamborghini at its foundation. I don't really believe Feruccio got into road cars because of an insult from Enzo, I think it's more that he was a keen enthusiast and proven opportunist who spotted an opportunity. There's a tale that he discovered a part of his Ferrari was shared with his own tractors, which has some relevance there. McLaren have cross-utilisation opportunities of their own, with their F1 facility, engineers and development software also being useful for road cars (heck, they even have two world champs for occasional test drivers).

 

When Feruccio started his car company, he made a massive investment, creating a state-of-the-art facility from the ground up, with an extremely ambitious remit, business plan and product lineup. His employees had lots of fresh and interesting ideas for developing the cars, and used cutting-edge technology beyond their competitors. The first car to emerge, with a bespoke engine, chassis and most other parts, was a high-tech marvel combining stunning performance with unmatched handling and useability, at a reasonable price. Critics considered it the finest sports car of its time, held back only by stodgy styling.

 

Sound familiar?

 

(Another parallel is that I'm in the minority of loving the styling of both 350GT and MP4-12C...)

Then we nothing for sure... customers cars will tell.

 

THis is very true. It's nothing till it's something. Any factory can build a blistering acceleration showboat vehicle. A final production car that they have to warranty that doesn't go boom could be totally different. I have a feeling the McLaren will be the real deal, but we'll all have to wait and see.

THis is very true. It's nothing till it's something. Any factory can build a blistering acceleration showboat vehicle. A final production car that they have to warranty that doesn't go boom could be totally different. I have a feeling the McLaren will be the real deal, but we'll all have to wait and see.

 

Yes, definitely. But unlike the recent Ferrari flap in Chris Harris' op-ed piece, I doubt that the street cars are going to differ greatly from the cars that have been driven by the press.

 

The possibility exists for ringers constantly, of course. Especially with boosted engines. But the things that can't be manipulated as easily are feel, man-machine interface, that connection between the car and road, and the precision of the hardware.

 

On all those things the people who have driven the car have said it's the new standard...for now.

On all those things the people who have driven the car have said it's the new standard...for now.

 

'til the v2 comes out with all the fixes/upgrades the v1 owners beta tested al la pre '12 gtr, pre 06 Gallardo. Now that car is going to be the shit!

Another thought:

 

We've been through this before, eventually we'll learn that when cars come out that move the needle they're not going to be "exposed" later.

 

As an example, I remember when the NSX arrived, and my thought before driving it was "what slow POS, who is Honda to even think of entering this class of car, hahahaha, what a joke, the journalists are all wrong wrong wrong".

 

Then I drove one and said "shit, this really is everything they said it was".

 

The SAME THING happened with the GT-R recently, down to the word haha, as we called bullshit on the acceleration times, accused Nissan engineers of "clearly cheating like whores" before the car arrived, and generally just pissing on it.

 

Then I drove one and said "shit, this really is everything they said it was".

 

 

With the MP4-12C, and of all companies McLaren, do any of you really believe it's going to arrive and lay an egg and we'll be saying "huh...well I guess all the journos and press were wrong and we were right....this car sucks".

 

'til the v2 comes out with all the fixes/upgrades the v1 owners beta tested al la pre '12 gtr, pre 06 Gallardo. Now that car is going to be the shit!

 

Haha yes, or even worse, the Club Sport or Scuderia or whatever McLaren is calling the hardcore MP4 version...

Car is freakishly fast into the corner and rockets out of the corner exit. I could care less about if it's faster or not in a straightline as long as it's damn close. A quick up for the boost and that problem will be taken care of. I think the reason why everyone feels it's a bit cold is because of the turbo muffled sound and how friggin planted it is and how unsupercar-like it drives like on the public road (like a limo as they say). Like a faster, hard core GTR without the stiff suspension. Change the exhaust and up the boost and I'm sure the excitement can be found

Oh come on now mako! I cant remember the straightline figures the Factory put out for the gtr but did anyone ever come close at matching its claimed ring Times? Imho Speed wise the gtr was massively overhyped! The only manufactor underpromising and overdelivering for the last few years have been porsche and lambo(talking about accel times strictly)

Oh come on now mako! I cant remember the straightline figures the Factory put out for the gtr but did anyone ever come close at matching its claimed ring Times? Imho Speed wise the gtr was massively overhyped! The only manufactor underpromising and overdelivering for the last few years have been porsche and lambo(talking about accel times strictly)

 

Cue Fadi beatdown in...3...2...

 

It is what it is.

 

You can tilt at windmills all you like, healthy skepticism is good, but a couple of acceleration seconds up or down is mostly irrelevant for the actual owners of GT-Rs (i.e. non-ringers).

 

The vast majority feel the car has outperformed their lofty expectations...including from experienced people who also own/owned Lamborghinis on this very board.

 

I'm sure the MP4-12C will deliver on the praise its receiving, reglardless of a few tenths of a second here or there. Just too much riding on this for them to gamble on pre-production over-boosted ringers and the backlash that would cause if exposed.

 

It's not 1994 anymore, when you fcuk up the entire world knows it instantly thanks to the interent and the loss of credibility is devastating.

I´m with you on that one that as a package it surely is amazing just as the MP4 will be, only pointing out that we should take the released accel figures and lap times with a grain of salt atleast until the first tests on customer cars are out.

IMO everyone is struggling to argue for arguments sake.....this car hasn't even hit the street yet.

 

All cars are so fast these days that if you are expecting for this car to be light years ahead of everything out there I think you will be sorely disappointed. It will be better engineered than machines based on age old platforms....of course; it would be a shock if it wasn't after all the hype. In two years someone else will eclipse the Mp4 and so it goes.

 

The problem here is that people only appear to be focused on outright speed...how fast it will come out of a corner....will it be able to beat a 911 turbo s to 100 by milliseconds...and so on. This really is a playground style banter.

 

If this is your only concern how come you dont all drive ariel atoms or radicals, which will annihilate any car here in any circumstance ? You dont...so..

 

The fact remains that will this car attain the same levels of pride in sports car ownership as the Lambo's...etc? This remains to be seen.

 

My humble opinion is very much no. It is an engineers car, no doubt, but this alone for me does nothing.

 

Factors that will take the world by storm when releasing a 'supercar' (Not hypercar):

 

1.) Cost

2.) Looks

3.) Performance

4.) Character. (However capable, is the car clinical or does it feel 'unique' and personable in a positive way)

 

The above creates the 'image' of the car. IMO there is a strong chance the MP4 is already beaten by the longest mile in all the above by MANY other cars already out there, save No.3.

 

Time will tell.

This car is going to be the shizzit

IMO everyone is struggling to argue for arguments sake.....this car hasn't even hit the street yet.

 

All cars are so fast these days that if you are expecting for this car to be light years ahead of everything out there I think you will be sorely disappointed. It will be better engineered than machines based on age old platforms....of course; it would be a shock if it wasn't after all the hype. In two years someone else will eclipse the Mp4 and so it goes.

 

The problem here is that people only appear to be focused on outright speed...how fast it will come out of a corner....will it be able to beat a 911 turbo s to 100 by milliseconds...and so on. This really is a playground style banter.

 

If this is your only concern how come you dont all drive ariel atoms or radicals, which will annihilate any car here in any circumstance ? You dont...so..

 

The fact remains that will this car attain the same levels of pride in sports car ownership as the Lambo's...etc? This remains to be seen.

 

My humble opinion is very much no. It is an engineers car, no doubt, but this alone for me does nothing.

 

Factors that will take the world by storm when releasing a 'supercar' (Not hypercar):

 

1.) Cost

2.) Looks

3.) Performance

4.) Character. (However capable, is the car clinical or does it feel 'unique' and personable in a positive way)

 

The above creates the 'image' of the car. IMO there is a strong chance the MP4 is already beaten by the longest mile in all the above by MANY other cars already out there, save No.3.

 

Time will tell.

 

 

Clearly you have strong preconceived feelings about this car because every comment you've made about it has been absolutely negative.

 

In my opinion its not just those four factors, there are others, like usability, comfort, and believe it or not, practicality. Which is why a car like the Ariel Atom is never even considered in comparisons with cars like these.

 

Also, it is the total combination of these attributes that make a car good or great. It seems that the MP4 has the right blend of all these attributes to put it above its competition.

 

To provide a counterpoint:

 

Cost- What is out there that is less expensive that incorporates the same level of technology and performance? Nothing.

Looks- Purely subjective.

Performance- In my opinion, the most important single attribute of a supercar, and one that the MP4 seems certain to not be lacking.

Character- I'll give you this one; I could see how McLaren could make a product that is so well done that it is clinical. However, I own a 458 and I feel exactly the same about that car. It is so good that it is almost a little boring. And this from a marque that is known for producing some of the most passionate vehicles in supercar history.

 

 

 

I have not been negative towards the car, if you read my posts, I have been negative towards the 'stand aside everything else attitude'. This car has not hit the streets yet.....

 

I have only been specifically negative to date over the design...and subjective as this may be it has been the principle criticism in relative discussions the world over, so sorry, but it is no work of art. I maintain (and this is no bad thing if it was...but it isn't) that had this been the new Lotus it would have fit right in. The problem is it costs rather more.

 

I would also say, bang for buck, the GTR leaves the MP4 at the door in terms of cost and tech. But again, this is not a car for me for all the same reasons.

 

And sadly, but true, the most important attribute for the MASSES, maybe not your good self, for a supercar is status. I agree the MP4 will have this in bags as it brandished the all exclusive Mclaren badge.

 

As for usability, I deliberately stated 'supercar' rather than 'hypercar', as usability / practicality / comfort etc... have found their way to attribute virtually every car in this field today.

 

Apologies if I come across as negative towards the car, but this is misconstrued as there is no doubt, as I mentioned, that it will undoubtedly be a technical tours de force and phenomenal performer....but that does not mean it will simply dispatch with Lambo/Porsche/Fag...etc....

 

IMO.

Cost- What is out there that is less expensive that incorporates the same level of technology and performance? Nothing.

Looks- Purely subjective.

Performance- In my opinion, the most important single attribute of a supercar, and one that the MP4 seems certain to not be lacking.

Character- I'll give you this one; I could see how McLaren could make a product that is so well done that it is clinical. However, I own a 458 and I feel exactly the same about that car. It is so good that it is almost a little boring. And this from a marque that is known for producing some of the most passionate vehicles in supercar history.

 

x 2

 

There is nothing that offers engineering and tech this advanced anywhere near the price, and anything that does is quite obviously going to get butchered by the McLaren on a racetrack. If these hints of a 7 flat ring time are anywhere near true, everyone will have to completely return to the drawing board. Especially considering all accounts are saying the car reaches new levels of compliance at this level of performance. It's obviously murderously fast in a straight line.

 

It's not a great looking car, but it's not ugly. It's what a mid-engined car looks like after engineers have done 90% of the work on a technical basis and then hand over the remnants of the clay to a designer and say "finish this." I can live with that. Function over form has produced far worse.

x 2

 

There is nothing that offers engineering and tech this advanced anywhere near the price, and anything that does is quite obviously going to get butchered by the McLaren on a racetrack. If these hints of a 7 flat ring time are anywhere near true, everyone will have to completely return to the drawing board. Especially considering all accounts are saying the car reaches new levels of compliance at this level of performance. It's obviously murderously fast in a straight line.

 

It's not a great looking car, but it's not ugly. It's what a mid-engined car looks like after engineers have done 90% of the work on a technical basis and then hand over the remnants of the clay to a designer and say "finish this." I can live with that. Function over form has produced far worse.

7 flat ?? where did u read that ???

7 flat ?? where did u read that ???

 

Steve Suttcliffe from Autocar had it in his blog on the Autocar website.

 

How fast is the new McLaren around the ’ring?

 

As such, there is no official lap time, yet, but unofficially it’ll be very close to seven minutes flat.

 

Faster than a Porsche 911 GT2 RS, in other words; faster than just about anything with number plates and something that vaguely resembles a roof, in fact.

 

There is even the smallest possibility that it might dip below the magic seven-minute barrier by all accounts (they’ve been there several times already and know, give or take a second here or there, what it’s capable of doing in perfect conditions).

 

If that happens, if a standard production 12C breaks seven minutes around the Nürburgring, it will be stark-raving ridiculous for a car that’s little less civilised to amble along a motorway in than a 3-series.

 

It will also be rather wonderful for a car that’s as British to its core as roast beef with all the trimmings.

 

And they say there’s an even quicker version in the post…

 

Also read that a swiss rag said 0-300 kmh in 24.9. That is crushingly faster than just about anything short of a Veyron.

No doubt R2-D2 can perform, come out with an awesome bodykit for it and you are in business.

 

The world of exotic cars will be very exciting for the next few years LP700, MP4 and hopefully a Gallardo replacement

I wasnt referring to the F1 team directly funding the project. I was referring to McLaren's bottomline.

And most of the materials didnt need to be obtaimed from suppliers, including R&D. As they have stated in many a press release that a lot of their research equipment and engineering came direct from the things they have learned in F1. F1 team involvement in BUILDING and DEVELOPING the CF, aero and tech, surely helped in reducing costs of materials and research since they already knew the majority of what would work as well as had the equipment onsite or in inventory to test it.. Having that ability inhouse without needing to develop an additional R&D department definitely lowers the cost to "get it done"..

THAT IMO is the advantage McLaren has over the mighty VAG and all their money. Mac is WAY ahead.....VAG and Lambo are still learning how to lay a cf weave up at UW while McLaren has been doing it for at least 20yrs...

 

 

Close but not quite. I know two people now that have worked on this project in the early days, one I have known for a long time and the other I met last night! They are not employed by McLaren, one was a project co-ordinator in the seeding days of the project. How it was put to me was that the F1 team at McLaren can put info in but they could not be too distracted in the road car because there focus was the team - have in mind we had some drinks so I could be wrong but there is the fact they are not employed by McLaren and are therefore not part of their F1 team.

During the F1 season the carbon fibre production facility is working 24 hours a day, they set up a production process optimisation plan that means that they never leave the kiln idle.

 

 

Steve Suttcliffe from Autocar had it in his blog on the Autocar website.

 

 

 

Also read that a swiss rag said 0-300 kmh in 24.9. That is crushingly faster than just about anything short of a Veyron.

 

0-300 in 25 sec

0-300 in 25 sec

 

It's not worth doing this until the times are on the books but it's still fun to see how rediculous that figure is, so why not:

 

0-300KPH (186MPH)

14.9 - BUGATTI VEYRON SS

16.7 - BUGATTI VEYRON

21.9 - KOENIGSEGG CCX

22.3 - MCLAREN F1

25.0 - MCLAREN MP4-12C (not real...yet)

26.1 - FERRARI ENZO

28.6 - PORSCHE 911 GT2RS (997.2)

29.6 - MERCEDES SLR

29.9 - FERRARI 599GTB

31.8 - LAMBORGHINI MURCIELAGO LP640

32.3 - LAMBORGHINI GALLARDO LP570-4 SL

33.6 - FORD GT

42.2 - MERCEDES SLS

44.6 - CORVETTE Plastic mess-06 (C6)

50.6 - LEXUS LF-A

The Veyron time was done without the top speed mode engaged, with it it does it in 16.7, the new SS in 14.9