GM New IPO thoughts.

So, how is it that GM, who received a $50,000,000,000.00 gift from the US taxpayer last year, now wants to re-sell us the stock AGAIN? Brilliant concept, run the co. into the ground with rubbish products and outrageous union contracts, then file bankruptcy, get a bail out from the man on the street. Receive all kinds of concessions from the US Government and then 12 months later, sell us back their stock!

 

That would be like me going to a Chevrolet dealership, buying a brand new Camel Clunge aka ZR1, stop making payments on it, make the dealership buy the car back from me so i can then pay them the loan. 12 months later, take that same car back to the dealer and sell it back to them and pocket the money that they gave me in the 1st place.

 

Seriously makes you wonder where this great country is heading!

So, how is it that GM, who received a $50,000,000,000.00 gift from the US taxpayer last year, now wants to re-sell us the stock AGAIN? Brilliant concept, run the co. into the ground with rubbish products and outrageous union contracts, then file bankruptcy, get a bail out from the man on the street. Receive all kinds of concessions from the US Government and then 12 months later, sell us back their stock!

 

That would be like me going to a Chevrolet dealership, buying a brand new Camel Clunge aka Camel Clunge aka ZR1, stop making payments on it, make the dealership buy the car back from me so i can then pay them the loan. 12 months later, take that same car back to the dealer and sell it back to them and pocket the money that they gave me in the 1st place.

 

Seriously makes you wonder where this great country is heading!

 

 

Yeah I agree with you on what you just said. It is a bunch of BS.

The government, people or the economy could not have survived if GM went out of business. There are roughly 266,000 people employed by GM directly and who knows how many more via offshoot businesses (steel fabrication, wire, plastics etc.). Although it is an obscene amount of money, it's to be repaid with interest and/or stock in the newly formed corporation.

What would happen to the Mtlqq stock with this ipo? Would it become common stock?

Didnt they already pay the money back? Or was that the other companies?

Didnt they already pay the money back? Or was that the other companies?

 

I believe you are confusing this with the bank bailout

I believe you are confusing this with the bank bailout

 

Ahh perhaps I am.

GM is supposedly paying $25 billion back.

The sad fact of the matter is the concessions they got from the union won't be enough. With the union there, it will _never_ be enough to be competitive with the Japanese.

 

They need to do away with the unions entirely.

 

Then, the jobs market needs to recover.

 

Then, after about 10 years of a decent recovery they will start making good money again.

 

Until then, history will repeat itself and GM will continue to essentially lose money.

So, how is it that GM, who received a $50,000,000,000.00 gift from the US taxpayer last year, now wants to re-sell us the stock AGAIN? Brilliant concept, run the co. into the ground with rubbish products and outrageous union contracts, then file bankruptcy, get a bail out from the man on the street. Receive all kinds of concessions from the US Government and then 12 months later, sell us back their stock!

 

That would be like me going to a Chevrolet dealership, buying a brand new Camel Clunge aka Camel Clunge aka ZR1, stop making payments on it, make the dealership buy the car back from me so i can then pay them the loan. 12 months later, take that same car back to the dealer and sell it back to them and pocket the money that they gave me in the 1st place.

 

Seriously makes you wonder where this great country is heading!

It is not at all what you think.

The IPO will consist of about 15 billion of stock that is being sold to the public by the US government part of the 60 billion that they own, there will be at least 3 more offering in time. They can't sell it all at once it would collapse the offering. There is a second half of the IPO that is preferred stock that will be sold by GM it will pay a dividend the money from that goes to GM to help develop new product. Amount of shares and price have not been set yet. It is the US government that is trying to get out from under, the one that really benefits are Obomass cronies from the unions that got stock for nothing but a payoff of our money for their support.

So, how is it that GM, who received a $50,000,000,000.00 gift from the US taxpayer last year, now wants to re-sell us the stock AGAIN? Brilliant concept, run the co. into the ground with rubbish products and outrageous union contracts, then file bankruptcy, get a bail out from the man on the street. Receive all kinds of concessions from the US Government and then 12 months later, sell us back their stock!

 

That would be like me going to a Chevrolet dealership, buying a brand new Camel Clunge aka Camel Clunge aka ZR1, stop making payments on it, make the dealership buy the car back from me so i can then pay them the loan. 12 months later, take that same car back to the dealer and sell it back to them and pocket the money that they gave me in the 1st place.

 

Seriously makes you wonder where this great country is heading!

It is not at all what you think.

The IPO will consist of about 15 billion of stock that is being sold to the public by the US government part of the 60 billion that they own, there will be at least 3 more offering in time. They can't sell it all at once it would collapse the offering. There is a second half of the IPO that is preferred stock that will be sold by GM it will pay a dividend the money from that goes to GM to help develop new product. Amount of shares and price have not been set yet. It is the US government that is trying to get out from under, the one that really benefits are Obomass cronies from the unions that got stock for nothing but a payoff of our money for their support.

Obama: "Bond Holders, you're screwed. Union Employees, hang tight it's going to be rough but please vote for me again later. I'll give you guys something like free healthcare or something. Dealers in big cities that vote for me: You'll be fine. I'll send you some Volts. Dealers in rural areas, and red states you're screwed. BigBanks, you guys are going to have to stop printing money- but pretend you are loaning money to small businesses and have GMAC screw the only people who are actually paying their mortgage. This is America bitches, it's all about the rimz."

 

I've heard that GM +1 circle of influence (just their suppliers, distributors, vendors and dealers) employ 2.7 million people. I would argue that 2,699,999 more than they need. They need to have one bankruptcy lawyer on payroll.

 

When are we going to let weak animals die?

dubl post weirdness.

I wouldnt touch this shit....

So,

 

In theory then, since the US taxpayer already owns 61% of GM now based on the bailout, are you telling me they are selling the remaining 39% or re-selling us the same 61% that we already "OWN" I understand that this is a staged sale and not all stock sold at once.

 

There is no reason anyone in there right mind would buy this GM stock @ an initial IPO, other than buy at a discount, which brings on another concern. Are these brokers getting a sweetheart discount over the general Pop.

So,

 

In theory then, since the US taxpayer already owns 61% of GM now based on the bailout, are you telling me they are selling the remaining 39% or re-selling us the same 61% that we already "OWN" I understand that this is a staged sale and not all stock sold at once.

 

There is no reason anyone in there right mind would buy this GM stock @ an initial IPO, other than buy at a discount, which brings on another concern. Are these brokers getting a sweetheart discount over the general Pop.

 

England did the very same thing quite some time ago, purchased private companies with tax payer funds then eventualy sold the Nationalised companies back to the private sector, If you or I did that it would be deemed a scam.

 

 

 

Russell

So,

 

In theory then, since the US taxpayer already owns 61% of GM now based on the bailout, are you telling me they are selling the remaining 39% or re-selling us the same 61% that we already "OWN" I understand that this is a staged sale and not all stock sold at once.

 

There is no reason anyone in there right mind would buy this GM stock @ an initial IPO, other than buy at a discount, which brings on another concern. Are these brokers getting a sweetheart discount over the general Pop.

Obomass took taxpayer money and gave it to GM and took control of stock screwed all other stock holders and screwed big time the bond holders and took the bond holders equity and gave it to his union cronies. Now when he sells the stock on the IPO he puts the taxpayer money back where he can plunder it on more bullshit programs for his give away crew.

Was garbage paper. Is garbage paper. Will be garbage paper.

 

I am considering a 2011 GMC Sierra 1500 for work/toy hauling. The MSRP is $53,200.

I am also considering a 2011 Toyota Tundra. MSRP is $45,X00.

Both are hard-loaded.

 

Sales price is $35,000 on either one of them. No... Way... In.... The... World... would I drive the GMC for the same money. You cannot even compare those two trucks, believe me I tried. Ford Vs. GM Vs. Dodge is at least debatable.

 

Oh my favorite part of the day. I told the GM salesman that I was considering the Toyota and he sort of huffed and snickered under his breath. I told him a little lie and said that they were pretty close in quality it was going to come down to money.

 

He actually had the balls to say "Aren't you a patriot? Isn't that worth something?"

 

My jaw dropped. 1) He SAID THAT? 2) To me? 3) He believes it?

 

Toyota employs 30% more Americans producing less trucks than GM squirts off the line. Idiot. GM made 430,000 Sierra/1500s. Toyota made 300,000 Tundras. And Toyota did it without having to suck down municipal contracts and rental agreements. And Toyota did it while facing completely trumped up, spun out of control "brakegate." Brakegate was perpetuated by UAW.

 

 

Was garbage paper. Is garbage paper. Will be garbage paper. <next subject>

 

I am considering a 2011 GMC Sierra 1500 for work/toy hauling. The MSRP is $53,200.

I am also considering a 2011 Toyota Tundra. MSRP is $45,X00.

Both are hard-loaded.

 

Sales price is $35,000 on either one of them. No... Way... In.... The... World... would I drive the GMC for the same money. You cannot even compare those two trucks, believe me I tried. Ford Vs. GM Vs. Dodge is at least debatable.

 

Oh my favorite part of the day. I told the GM salesman that I was considering the Toyota and he sort of huffed and snickered under his breath. I told him a little lie and said that they were pretty close in quality it was going to come down to money.

 

He actually had the balls to say "Aren't you a patriot? Isn't that worth something?"

 

My jaw dropped. 1) He SAID THAT? 2) To me? 3) He believes it?

 

Toyota employs 30% more Americans producing less trucks than GM squirts off the line. Idiot. GM made 430,000 Sierra/1500s. Toyota made 300,000 Tundras. And Toyota did it without having to suck down municipal contracts and rental agreements. And Toyota did it while facing completely trumped up, spun out of control "brakegate." Brakegate was perpetuated by UAW.

 

 

 

It's a joke to compare a Tundra to any of the big threes half tons. Toyota can't build a frame. It's a good vehicle, but as a truck it pales in comparison to the other three. You can throw more in the back as well as tow a lot more with the other three....

 

Also, Toyota sold less than eighty thousand tundras last year.

 

What would happen to the Mtlqq stock with this ipo? Would it become common stock?

no mtlqq is its own company and the stock will continue to be almost worthless

 

Didnt they already pay the money back? Or was that the other companies?

they paid back the loan they got, the us gov bailout was party a loan mostly a cash infusion in exchange for stock, they paid off the loan with the other government money they got in exchange of stock. The government will make whatever money back they will through the ipo and selling shares over time

 

The sad fact of the matter is the concessions they got from the union won't be enough. With the union there, it will _never_ be enough to be competitive with the Japanese.

 

They need to do away with the unions entirely.

 

Then, the jobs market needs to recover.

 

Then, after about 10 years of a decent recovery they will start making good money again.

 

Until then, history will repeat itself and GM will continue to essentially lose money.

In factory lines, i can see unions in theory being a decent idea for the employees to want to do, but they have transformed into the enemy of capitalist, they don't "protect" rank and file employees from greedy management, they just became another "greedy" party only looking out for the most they can get for their members without any long term view at all or consideration for what effects their decision might have. IMO i agree that they do need to get rid of unions entirely

 

 

 

This is just a very little pet pev of mine. All the politicians go on the road saying bla bla we won't stop till we get every dime of tax payer dollars back, and over and over the taxpayers came to bail you out and they want their money back.

 

Unless we are gonna get checks for the money back they need to stop calling it tax payer money just call it what it is government money. I realize this isn't a big deal at all but just a thing that annoys me they go around trying to be champions of "main street" when really they are just trying to get their money back

The UAW has been the real owner of GM for many years now. I was reading a book that goes into some depth on this, it talks about how something like say 50% of GM's profits go to the UAW, while only 10% go to the shareholders of GM (and now isn't the UAW also a significant shareholder of GM??).

 

The UAW's view has always been very socialist, that corporations do not exist to make profits for the shareholders, but instead exist to serve society, and the workers, the government, and the general public should all have a say in the corporation's operations.

 

Pension funds are actually one of the next areas getting ready to blow possibly because they are unsustainable. They were used by many corporations and governments as a way to satisfy unions in the short-term, as they put off the real costs for many decades. But those costs are coming due. This is one of the reasons why GM (and the other Big Three) gave the unions everything they wanted constantly (costs put off until later). Another reason was at the time (the 1950s and 1960s in particular), GM was among the most profitable corporations in the world, so the management were more cocky.

 

It's a joke to compare a Tundra to any of the big threes half tons. Toyota can't build a frame. It's a good vehicle, but as a truck it pales in comparison to the other three. You can throw more in the back as well as tow a lot more with the other three....

 

Also, Toyota sold less than eighty thousand tundras last year.

 

Toyota can't build a frame? Well, that's an interesting opinion. I believe they sold 80K in the USA.

 

My experience with towing a 10,000 pound trailer yields an entirely different perspective. I had a Silverado 1500 and a Toyota Tundra both running 30K miles a year towing 3 different trailers. Both had about 100K miles on them when we unloaded them.

 

1) The Chevy had multiple chassis problems (shocks were blown, it creaked real bad when it wasn't loaded and the hitch was rusted in bad shape. IT also felt very "loose" and had multiple knocks in the suspension)

2) The chevy had a transmission replaced under GM goodwill @ 90K miles

3) The chevy averaged about 11MPG

4) We lost a few frame rivets on the bed

 

The Tundra never had a single mechanical problem. Never a single chassis problem. Got about 13MPG. Oil Changes and Air Filters only.

 

Sold the Chevy for half what we sold the Tundra for. And that's where the proof is in the pudding.

 

But, that's just anecdotal at best. It's enough to convince me that, at least for a work truck, the Toyota is a viable contender.