Why attorneys should be kept out of strip clubs.

So then a business should have no integrity or accountability? You're pretty much saying it's ok to take advantage of people. It's not ok, and it can be illegal. Laws exist to prevent stuff like that. Businesses need to be held accountable just as much as people. If that wasn't the case, you couldn't trust anyone for anything.

 

Why are you so quick to blame the business? Were you there to oversee the transaction, review his state of mind, and broker the deal?

 

How do you know a half naked blonde named ferrari didn't whisper in his ear "for $10k i'll let you suck a fart out of my ass", and he threw down the amex?

 

He's an attorney, and is trying to get out of the tab for one reason or another. I find it very hard to believe anything he's saying on the principle that HE'S A fcuking ATTORNEY AND SHOULD KNOW BETTER. The notion that this business is even remotely at fault is gut wrenching to me.

 

Oh, and here is a bombshell for you, as a general rule I don't trust anyone when it comes to financial stuff. Caveat Emptor, you're responsible for your own shit, you have to read the docs, and maintain the state of mind to understand what you're committing to. This is why we also have laws to protect businesses. Can you return a car you buy? fcuk no, you sign on the line and it's yours.

 

If he would have disputed the charges at the time the bill was handed over I would almost believe he had a legitimate case. But to do it after the fact, fcuk that.

I bet he spent some time in VIP fcuking or getting blown by the girls there and is now trying to save face with his wife.

 

 

I think the important thing here is that if you spend $20k on a night out with skanky women, you better:

 

A. remember it

2. hurt for a couple days after

 

 

That Gold Rush place is super seedy but from what I understand they have the only cabaret permit for downtown Miami and the city isn't issuing more permits in that area. I haven't gone inside, but based on the crowd outside at 3-5am, no thanks.

FWIW I was once given a bill for £28000 in a bar. I queried it straight away not in a court of law and trust me I was in such a state that the stairs on the way out resembled the North face of Everest and I looked like Spiderman all the way home.

I am 150% serious. Your argument is the most flawed and one of the things I find wrong with the world. No social responsibility. If you let yourself get that drunk, you deserve the consequences. You know who doesn't, the people who's lives you affect around you if you further your retardation by hopping in a car to go home and hit someone, or if you default on your mortgage and expect the taxpayer to pick up your slack. You have lost your mind if you think I am wrong on this one. It is NO ONES responsibility to watch over you Brian. No ones. If he has no common sense or fortitude, what is he doing in a strip club getting bombarded by hot chicks that are naked and putting booze in the mix to affect his already limited ability to make a decision. Recipe for disaster and he needs to own it. I have been in situations Brian and have never made poor choices of the magnitude this guy did. And I have the spending power to do it if I wanted to. You know why it has never happened? Because I am a responsible person and would not inject myself into a situation like that in the first place, let alone not be able to make the right choice if I got myself there.

 

Good luck fixing other peoples problems. Good luck supporting people and their bad choices. It is tenets like that which are bring the world to its knees. I weep for our future if you logic bares a premium over mine.

 

Chris, you waaaaaaaay overestimate your ability to be responsible and your need for people to be responsible for you. And I mean this way beyond getting drunk.

 

Did you read all the fine print and understand every single legal aspect of your mortgage? Did you read the thousands of pages that are probably related to you owning a single share of stock? Did you even read the TOS before you agreed to register for LP? Do you have the slightest idea of what any of it is? No, of course not. No one does.

 

It's impossible for you to be held to such scrutiny. You would get fucked and scammed left and right. That's why we have laws and regulators. They create all these laws so that everyone has to abide by them and so that you can't get fucked. They make it so you don't have to read every single fine detail of every single legal document before you can buy a home. They make it so the bank has to present the information clearly to you and in a way that you can understand. They make it so you can't sign contracts when you are judged mentally incapable. They are safeguards that you need and use whether or not you realize it.

 

And it just so happens that one of these laws may prevent you from getting too drunk and spending all your money and signing all your possessions away. It's a safeguard. It wasn't designed solely to remove the accountability of idiots, but rather to prevent certain practices for taking advantage of people, many of whom are not idiots. It's sooooo easy to scam people and we need things to shield people from it.

 

Do you honestly believe that if someone is drunk, that you should be able to deceive them and trick them into signing away their life, or in this case, spending thousands of dollars? I guarantee I could walk into any bar on Friday night and walk out with having talked drunk people into signing contracts that say they owe me or agree to pay me thousands of dollars for random stuff or services. If you can honestly say you have no problem with this and wouldn't pursue it in court, please please please tell me what bars you go to.

 

Why are you so quick to blame the business? Were you there to oversee the transaction, review his state of mind, and broker the deal?

 

How do you know a half naked blonde named ferrari didn't whisper in his ear "for $10k i'll let you suck a fart out of my ass", and he threw down the amex?

 

He's an attorney, and is trying to get out of the tab for one reason or another. I find it very hard to believe anything he's saying on the principle that HE'S A fcuking ATTORNEY AND SHOULD KNOW BETTER. The notion that this business is even remotely at fault is gut wrenching to me.

 

Oh, and here is a bombshell for you, as a general rule I don't trust anyone when it comes to financial stuff. Caveat Emptor, you're responsible for your own shit, you have to read the docs, and maintain the state of mind to understand what you're committing to. This is why we also have laws to protect businesses. Can you return a car you buy? fcuk no, you sign on the line and it's yours.

 

If he would have disputed the charges at the time the bill was handed over I would almost believe he had a legitimate case. But to do it after the fact, fcuk that.

 

Christ... I'm not saying what did or did not happen. I don't have a clue what happened. Like I said before, my point is merely that I think the lawsuit could have merit and I don't think it's wrong that such a suit could have merit. I didn't say it did or didn't.

 

You don't trust anyone when it comes to financial stuff? Bullshit. Unless you've read all the fine print and all the laws, you have no idea of all the stuff you agree to when you buy stocks and open bank accounts. What you do know is that a lot of very smart people spent a lot of time drafting legislation that says what you're doing is safe and that protects you at the very core of it. All you need to know is the general idea of what you're doing. They say, it's safe to put your money in a bank and we guarantee it up to X dollars. You know the gist of it, and that's good enough. Did you read all the documents associated with your Amex, or did you just read your interest rate, credit limit, pay schedule, and assume that your credit card works as you expect it to and that there isn't a tiny sentence that say 'oh yeah, and if you miss a payment you owe us $50K.'

Do you honestly believe that if someone is drunk, that you should be able to deceive them and trick them into signing away their life, or in this case, spending thousands of dollars? I guarantee I could walk into any bar on Friday night and walk out with having talked drunk people into signing contracts that say they owe me or agree to pay me thousands of dollars for random stuff or services. If you can honestly say you have no problem with this and wouldn't pursue it in court, please please please tell me what bars you go to.

 

Ah but you see that isn't a fair comparison. He wasn't swindled out of anything, by all accounts he purchased goods/services and received what he paid for, items which are incapable of being repossessed or returned. Hence he is 110% responsible for his actions and should pay accordingly.

 

This is the same principle and reason you cannot BK out of education debt, it's something that cannot be taken away. Do people make stupid decisions, commit to hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loans on a regular basis? You bet your ass they do, it's currently a bigger problem than CC debt. But you know what, fcuking own it, you sign the paper, so pay the piper.

 

 

I'm sorry Brian, but your point of view is completely fucked and totally wrong in this instance.

Christ... I'm not saying what did or did not happen. I don't have a clue what happened. Like I said before, my point is merely that I think the lawsuit could have merit and I don't think it's wrong that such a suit could have merit. I didn't say it did or didn't.

 

You don't trust anyone when it comes to financial stuff? Bullshit. Unless you've read all the fine print and all the laws, you have no idea of all the stuff you agree to when you buy stocks and open bank accounts. What you do know is that a lot of very smart people spent a lot of time drafting legislation that says what you're doing is safe and that protects you at the very core of it. All you need to know is the general idea of what you're doing. They say, it's safe to put your money in a bank and we guarantee it up to X dollars. You know the gist of it, and that's good enough. Did you read all the documents associated with your Amex, or did you just read your interest rate, credit limit, pay schedule, and assume that your credit card works as you expect it to and that there isn't a tiny sentence that say 'oh yeah, and if you miss a payment you owe us $50K.'

 

Actually I'm hypervigilant about that kind of thing and do read documents pretty thoroughally. And if it's something of significance then I would consult with an attorney before signing it.

 

There are laws to prevent out and out fcuking of people, but when you know the cost of goods and agree to the amounts, you can't cry about it later... drunk or not.

 

If I'm 3 bottles of red wine into the night and stop by lambo OC to pick up a murci, do you think I have the right to return it in two days because I was incapable of making that commitment? fcuk no I don't.

 

Furthermore, in the judicial system Attorneys will be held to a higher standard of "understanding" than the common citizen, and thus I'm fairly certain this will be thrown out. The same way a navy seal is held to a different standard if he kills someone with his bare hands, he knew better than most what he was doing, and the consequences of his actions.

Ah but you see that isn't a fair comparison. He wasn't swindled out of anything, by all accounts he purchased goods/services and received what he paid for, items which are incapable of being repossessed or returned. Hence he is 110% responsible for his actions and should pay accordingly.

 

This is the same principle and reason you cannot BK out of education debt, it's something that cannot be taken away. Do people make stupid decisions, commit to hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loans on a regular basis? You bet your ass they do, it's currently a bigger problem than CC debt. But you know what, fcuking own it, you sign the paper, so pay the piper.

 

 

I'm sorry Brian, but your point of view is completely fucked and totally wrong in this instance.

 

Yeah, but don't you think there is a difference between being mentally competent and not when agreeing to something? It really has nothing to do with whether or not it was his decision to drink so much or order goods/services. When someone is incapable of making coherent decisions, how can you honestly hold them to what they agree to? That's like talking to someone who is half asleep. Just because someone chooses to do something to put them in a certain state of mind, doesn't mean you can now hold them to the same standards are someone completely aware and present. I'm pretty sure there is a law that says that too (where's Romandad?)

 

Define swindle? Did they see that he was shit faced and barely able to function, but continue to sell him alcohol that he clearly wasn't drinking? Is it not swindling because they gave him specifically what he asked for? I think you have to draw a line somewhere. Whether he crossed that line, I don't know, but I can see situations where it exists. At what point are you just taking advantage of someone?

You realize you're contradicting yourself, right?

 

You said gun owners shouldn't be responsible for gun crimes, yet you now think bar patrons shouldnt be responsible for their actions.

 

 

 

Say what? Gun owners not responsible for gun crimes?

 

Bar patrons shouldn't be responsible for their actions?

 

No. I said if and this is a big HUGE motherfucking if, some asshole bartender has a $1000 shot he is trying to sell you, I am talking to his manager, or cops, or people in jail, I don't care- but I am not paying UNLESS I specifically knew what I was getting and that it costs $1000.

 

"Hey try this it's awesome" and adding $1000 to the tab = a lot of leeway for a good lawyer to get this case in your favor.

 

 

 

 

 

Do you find that you need to disagree with everyone to prove how smart you are? Like an old proverb says "Be more genuine, people will feel attracted to you"

 

 

I have a feeling that...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Say what? Gun owners not responsible for gun crimes?

 

It was a typo. On the first page you made a comment that gun shop owners should not be liable for someone buying a gun and murdering someone. Replace the situation with a bar. It is kind of contradictory in that in one case you don't want to blame a bartender for enabling the guy to buy drinks, but then you want to blame him for enabling him to by expensive drinks.

 

It's kind of contradictory, kind of not.

Define swindle? Did they see that he was shit faced and barely able to function, but continue to sell him alcohol that he clearly wasn't drinking? Is it not swindling because they gave him specifically what he asked for? I think you have to draw a line somewhere. Whether he crossed that line, I don't know, but I can see situations where it exists. At what point are you just taking advantage of someone?

 

Again... how do you know his state of being? He's making that statement, but do you know it to be entirely true? How do you know he wasn't drinking it, if it even was that fucked up he was drinking something.

 

You don't ring up an $18k tab at a strip club without some extra curricular activity, which they can probably account for, various witnesses etc.

 

It's completely a he said, she said, case with what I am sure is no substantial proof to back his case.

 

 

Last I checked nobody was pouring it down his throat, so no matter how much they attempted to serve him, be it a 55gal VP drum of everclear, he put the glass to his lips and swallowed. That single action makes him responsible for all outcome.

 

By your example, anyone involved in a DUI can plead mental incapacity/insanity, as they didn't realize what they were doing and are thus innocent of any wrong doing.

I am sure the strip club has plenty of surveillance tapes.

Chris, you waaaaaaaay overestimate your ability to be responsible and your need for people to be responsible for you. And I mean this way beyond getting drunk.

 

Did you read all the fine print and understand every single legal aspect of your mortgage? Did you read the thousands of pages that are probably related to you owning a single share of stock? Did you even read the TOS before you agreed to register for LP? Do you have the slightest idea of what any of it is? No, of course not. No one does.

 

It's impossible for you to be held to such scrutiny. You would get fucked and scammed left and right. That's why we have laws and regulators. They create all these laws so that everyone has to abide by them and so that you can't get fucked. They make it so you don't have to read every single fine detail of every single legal document before you can buy a home. They make it so the bank has to present the information clearly to you and in a way that you can understand. They make it so you can't sign contracts when you are judged mentally incapable. They are safeguards that you need and use whether or not you realize it.

 

And it just so happens that one of these laws may prevent you from getting too drunk and spending all your money and signing all your possessions away. It's a safeguard. It wasn't designed solely to remove the accountability of idiots, but rather to prevent certain practices for taking advantage of people, many of whom are not idiots. It's sooooo easy to scam people and we need things to shield people from it.

 

Do you honestly believe that if someone is drunk, that you should be able to deceive them and trick them into signing away their life, or in this case, spending thousands of dollars? I guarantee I could walk into any bar on Friday night and walk out with having talked drunk people into signing contracts that say they owe me or agree to pay me thousands of dollars for random stuff or services. If you can honestly say you have no problem with this and wouldn't pursue it in court, please please please tell me what bars you go to.

 

Brian, I have not overestimated my ability to do anything. If you cannot control yourself that is one thing, to judge what I am able to do is entirely another. You have no idea what they did or did not do. I can tell you from experience how those things work. Hell, it felt like a legal document the one time I went into a VIP room. They have you sign right then and there. They tell you what it is going to cost up front.

 

Brian, you have to be kidding me that you think this guy is innocent. Your grasp of the subject is way off base. You have a lawyer here that signed KNOWING he was going to dispute it. And yes, I honestly believe that is you get yourself so fucked up in a strip club that you cannot handle your own financial instruments that you signed card holder agreements on, you should get fiscally ass raped. I can honestly say that I have NO problem with this and you can come out with me anytime.

 

I am all for sound consumer protection law in cases where they client can not possibly be expected to understand all aspects of and do due diligence on their own. We are talking about a fcuking STRIP CLUB TAB BRIAN! And yes, if you did not hire your own closing attorney and have him inspect the documents for you prior to signing on the dotted line, then you deserve to get what you get also.

Why should it be ok to take advantage of someone in such a way? If your customer comes in and doesn't know what he's doing, do you just sell him everything under the moon to make as much money off him as possible? That's pretty predatory. Where are the ethics?

 

If he really did just get way too drunk and they let him spend insane amounts of money for no reason when he clearly had no idea what he was doing, then I think that should fall under some consumer protection law.

 

If you woke up with an $19K charge on your credit card, wouldn't you go back in there and say WTF? I don't think he should get $15K awarded on top of the returned charges, but I don't think an adjustment should be made.

 

 

It's time we all grow up and take responsibility for our own actions and stop blaming others when we're assholes. If you wake up and you have a $19K charge on your credit card, all I can say is I hope it was worth it, chaulk it up to 'life tuition" and don't do it again.

 

Why should the bar pay for his stupidity?

It's time we all grow up and take responsibility for our own actions and stop blaming others when we're assholes. If you wake up and you have a $19K charge on your credit card, all I can say is I hope it was worth it, chaulk it up to 'life tuition" and don't do it again.

 

Why should the bar pay for his stupidity?

 

Another thing that is stupid is the guy is suing for the entire tab, not a portion of it. He really feels he's entitled to all of it???

 

To boot, the fact that he is a lawyer adds to the whole "I can get away with it" mentality.

 

Not good.