Today is the Day! Start juicing!

Truth be told, it would be extremely difficult to maintain a zero carb diet.

 

Practically impossible, because even things like meat and eggs contain trace amounts of carbs. But, the zero carb reference was just being used for the sake of the argument.

That's not the issue being discussed here.

 

05LSV stated that he was unaware Carbohydrates were not an essential nutrient - I provided evidence otherwise...

 

I should have prefaced this by saying that if you are a diabetic, than you can't really follow the same guidelines as everyone else. But, if you are a diabetic, you would already know that...

 

In a normally functioning human, it really isn't that big of an issue...

 

Fiber is important, but while it is still classified as a carbohydrate, it is metabolized in a different manner...

 

Ugh, you missed the whole point there. Regardless if you're diabetic or not, a zero carb diet can be quite dangerous. Siting a guy with a degree in sports/movement hardly makes him an expert when PH.D. medical doctors warn of the dangers.

 

You need to take a step back and read what some of us have written here, the tone you're portraying of talking down to us is a little unwarranted.

 

For the record fiber isn't metabolized at all, it's zero calories and merely provides substance.

05LSV stated that he was unaware Carbohydrates were not an essential nutrient - I provided evidence otherwise...

 

Read the first 5 pages of this thread and search the "What did you do today" thread and I think you'll find that that I'm pretty "aware." My comment to you was dripping in sarcasm...

 

Low and no carb diets, regardless of the essential or non-essential nature of carbs themselves (warrants a different reply entirely), are just that - they're diets. You're posting advice from your "book" that is good for the guy who wants to squeeze into his size 42 dress pants for the art gallery opening in 2 weeks. He might lose a little weight and maybe even a little fat, but he won't be healthy, and he certainly won't be able to maintain that weight loss after the no/low carb diet is over.

 

I don't know if I speak for all who have posted in this thread, but to many of us, active lifestyles are just that - a lifestyle. This lifestyle includes a healthy routine based both on calories and macronutrient ratios. I might tighten up my routine a little if I've got something big happening a month or so down the road so I can be leaner when the time comes, but I eat good, nutritionally sound food ALL the time, and crash dieting with no carbs and encouraging people that keto-acidosis and the prolonged state of ketosis in the body are somehow good things....well, it's all wrong.

 

let me guess - do you encourage people to use cans of soup to workout with?

Alright, now we are talking about insulin dependant diabetes, my specialty. None of this "weight loss", "eating right" bullshit i know nothing about!

You need to take a step back and read what some of us have written here, the tone you're portraying of talking down to us is a little unwarranted.

 

Now that I read back on the way some of my stuff is worded, I do agree with this. It is not my intention to talk down to anyone about anything, and if it came across that way, I do apologize. I will be more careful with the way I word my posts in the future.

 

Low and no carb diets, regardless of the essential or non-essential nature of carbs themselves (warrants a different reply entirely), are just that - they're diets. You're posting advice from your "book" that is good for the guy who wants to squeeze into his size 42 dress pants for the art gallery opening in 2 weeks. He might lose a little weight and maybe even a little fat, but he won't be healthy, and he certainly won't be able to maintain that weight loss after the no/low carb diet is over.

 

I don't know if I speak for all who have posted in this thread, but to many of us, active lifestyles are just that - a lifestyle. This lifestyle includes a healthy routine based both on calories and macronutrient ratios. I might tighten up my routine a little if I've got something big happening a month or so down the road so I can be leaner when the time comes, but I eat good, nutritionally sound food ALL the time, and crash dieting with no carbs and encouraging people that keto-acidosis and the prolonged state of ketosis in the body are somehow good things....well, it's all wrong.

 

let me guess - do you encourage people to use cans of soup to workout with?

 

First off, the can of soup thing makes no sense whatsoever.

 

Regarding your other comments...

1. That is not my book - I have nothing to do with it, etc...

 

2. I 100% get the healthy lifestyle thing - thats why I posted the links to the fundamentals of fat loss articles. The only reason why I am talking about this stuff, "crash dieting", etc is because this thread is about juice fasting. I know crash dieting is a short term solution - in the link to the book I posted, the author states himself that it isn't really a good diet to do for the average person looking for permanent fat loss. I am making no argument here - all I was getting at was that if you are going to do a liquid style diet, vegetables aren't really the first thing you should be worrying about - it should be protein.

 

Regarding the carbohydrate thing - I would really suggest you do a little more research on your ketoacidosis. I have yet to see a case where someone has experienced ketoacidosis when they weren't a diabetic or had previous health problems (usually something to do with alcoholism) If you can find some information that says otherwise, I would love to read it. And i'm not being sarcastic about that - I like learning about stuff like this.

 

Prolonged state of ketosis and negative health effects - same as above. I would like to see some information that says it is a bad thing. (In normal humans) I have yet to read anything that really makes a clear case in regards to that, but if you can find it, i'm all ears.

 

Here is some info on Ketoacidosis...

 

http://books.google.ca/books?id=JtCZBe-2XV...iet&f=false

 

PG. 34,35,36 with medical references...

- protein and fat makes you feel full - carbs don't...

 

 

I don't agree. Pasta and baked potato can make you feel pretty damn full.

I don't agree. Pasta and baked potato can make you feel pretty damn full.

 

Yes, but eat 500 calories worth of pasta and let me know how full you feel in 4 or 5 hours...

Eat 500 calories worth of fat and compare the feeling...

 

Of course, this is if you were just eating pasta without any oil, butter, or sauce, etc which would probably include fat and slow down digestion - but who eats those things plain anyways.

 

Potato also includes fiber to slow down digestion, but much of the same thing applies.

If you're eating properly, you don't get full because you're having 6oz of meat, a cup of brown rice, and a cup of broccoli. Good and healthy food doesn't fill you up for a reason. Also, if you are truly nutritionally in the game, feeling full doesn't matter because you'll be eating again in 2-3 hours anyways.

 

One last thing about not eating carbs - how do you expect to have any energy or strength for activity (from simple walking around to lifting weights at the gym) with no muscle glycogen? Good luck picking up that can of soup.

More food for thought:

 

Want to get super lean? Look up carb cycling. Much healthier and more effective than low/zero carb and your results don't go out the window when you decide you're finished.

Be careful with your attacks, I can post stuff that discredits 2-3 hour eating and bulking/cutting as unnecessary stresses on the body that are NOT natural... He might not be 100% on point but he is not wrong either... I've had less than 50grams of carbs daily for weeks before. Hunger is manageable as stated before, and stomach shrinks according to your intake, hit your protein numbers and get some healthy fats from avocado and nuts, and carbs from veggies and beans that is THE staple imo.

 

but now people from paleo will say "don't eat beans..eat fruits like people 5000 years ago" and the next person will say "No, fructose is bad, don't do that!" and it goes on.. hell last I heard you shouldn't even drink that much water because it messes up the cell walls

Fellas,this is all good information and very interesting..but this was started by Allan who is just trying to lose his gut and feel slimmer,not someone who is trying to bulk and cut to compete in a body building competition.

If you're eating properly, you don't get full because you're having 6oz of meat, a cup of brown rice, and a cup of broccoli. Good and healthy food doesn't fill you up for a reason. Also, if you are truly nutritionally in the game, feeling full doesn't matter because you'll be eating again in 2-3 hours anyways.

 

One last thing about not eating carbs - how do you expect to have any energy or strength for activity (from simple walking around to lifting weights at the gym) with no muscle glycogen? Good luck picking up that can of soup.

 

 

I'm still failing to see where I am condoning a zero carb diet here? I said that carbs were a non essential nutrient...

 

Right from the piece of info I posted a few posts back...

 

"...mention that the body is not able to provide sufficient carbohydrate to fuel high intensity exercise such as sprinting or weight training and carbs might be considered essential for individuals who want to do that type of exercise."

 

I mean, you are really turning out to be a joke, continuing with that can of soup deal. I am providing links to information that has medical citations included, you are speaking out of your rear...

 

Lets look at some of the posts you have made in this thread. Here are a few snippets...

 

Post #39

 

"Get a guy who does pre-contest for bodybuilders - they are the best in terms of supplementation and correct macronutrient percentages." Hmmm...the guy I have been linking to maybe (Lyle Mcdonald)

 

Based on Post #105, you say your BMI is 26.7, or obese. Based on the context of the comment, it would lead me to believe you do not consider yourself overweight. (Totally cool with that, the BMI stuff is bs) So, based on that information, if you were 6' tall, you would weigh 197 lbs. If you are a giant and you were 6'5'', you would weigh 225lbs. Cool. Post #115 - My daily intake is around 300 grams of protein, half of which is from protein shakes. I'm not sure if you just like protein, but assuming you have your macros planned out, this would lead me to believe you think you actually need 300g of protein per day. (If this is incorrect, sorry) How much lean body mass do you really have? I mean, even if you were a 6'5 giant at 225lbs and 10% bodyfat, which I don't think you are (I may be wrong) then thats really on the upper limit of the 1.5g per lb of lean body mass recommendations. Otherwise, it is just overkill... Is there really any evidence that more protein is better. But wait, it all comes together now...

 

Post #134

 

"Find your BMR

1. Use total calories and separate into protein/carb/fat % (40% pro, 40% carbs, and 20% fat is a good starting point)

2. divide your total calories so you are eating 6 times a day

3. protein with every meal

4. supplement with protein shakes to hit your daily number from your calculations

5. eat only low glycemic carbs with every meal, but don't eat any carbs with your last meal of the day (only protein and veggies for example)

6. eat only lambda lambda lambda and the omega mu-3 fats (found in fish and oil-based supplements - flax oil, fish oil, etc) - some fat from lean meats is acceptable

 

7. No sweets, no soda, no cheese, no milk, and no alcohol.

 

Do this and you will not only drop bodyfat, but your insulin levels will never spike and you will be infinitely healthier."

 

1. Sure

2. 6 times a day, is it necessary? Seems like broscience to me. Hitting your overall daily targets is most important. But you know that. See: http://www.leangains.com/

3. Sure

4. If you want

5. Sounds like broscience to me. Only low glycemic carbs? What happens when high glycemic carbs are combined with the protein you are eating with every meal? What happens when it is combined with the fat? Does it slow down digestion and make the GI insignificant?

 

No carbs with the last meal of the day?

See: http://www.leangains.com/2011/06/is-late-n...er-for-fat.html

Notice how there are references to medical studies included? That doesn't matter though, right.

 

6. You hatin on saturated fats?

 

See:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition...ats-part-1.html

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition...ats-part-2.html

 

7. Milk bad? Cheese bad? Why?

 

 

"but your insulin levels will never spike and you will be infinitely healthier."

 

Wait, why would you never want to spike insulin? Isn't it a good idea to spike insulin postworkout to get the nutrients to the muscles faster so they can recover? Even on a diet, lifting is important to maintain muscle mass, so this still applies - see TKD.

 

 

Seems to me like you are a broscientist who has been reading too much mens health...

 

 

 

Want to get super lean? Look up carb cycling. Much healthier and more effective than low/zero carb and your results don't go out the window when you decide you're finished.

 

I know...but I am still not condoning low/zero carb anywhere...

Be careful with your attacks, I can post stuff that discredits 2-3 hour eating and bulking/cutting as unnecessary stresses on the body that are NOT natural... He might not be 100% on point but he is not wrong either... I've had less than 50grams of carbs daily for weeks before. Hunger is manageable as stated before, and stomach shrinks according to your intake, hit your protein numbers and get some healthy fats from avocado and nuts, and carbs from veggies and beans that is THE staple imo.

 

but now people from paleo will say "don't eat beans..eat fruits like people 5000 years ago" and the next person will say "No, fructose is bad, don't do that!" and it goes on.. hell last I heard you shouldn't even drink that much water because it messes up the cell walls

 

Not natural? What part of a veggie juice diet, no carb doet, or any other diet is natural?

 

And I get your point, but I'm talking about the look that most guys want - the Mens Health cover dude look, not the massive bodybuilder look.

Fellas,this is all good information and very interesting..but this was started by Allan who is just trying to lose his gut and feel slimmer,not someone who is trying to bulk and cut to compete in a body building competition.

 

Yes, this is getting out of hand, but you can never have too much information, right?

 

In the end, all that matters is hitting daily protein numbers and eating at a caloric deficit - none of this other bs really matters...

Yes, this is getting out of hand, but you can never have too much information, right?

 

In the end, all that matters is hitting daily protein numbers and eating at a caloric deficit - none of this other bs really matters...

Yep,it's excellent info. Just far surpassing the main topic though But it is cool too see so many fitness educated members on here!

Yawn. My pizza just got here.

How much lean body mass do you really have? I mean, even if you were a 6'5 giant at 225lbs and 10% bodyfat, which I don't think you are (I may be wrong)...

 

Seems to me like you are a broscientist who has been reading too much mens health...

 

When the mudslinging starts, I'm out. Interaction is fine, but arguing on the internet is for retards. Cool "bro?"

 

I'll take the knowledge I have from the nutritionist that I interact with once a week and my fitness model wife and leave the remaining info to you since you're the expert.

 

And yes, I'm 6'5" 225lbs, and about 10% bf.

By the way, the leangains site you linked is pretty interesting. It would have been fun to talk about it with you.

When the mudslinging starts, I'm out. Interaction is fine, but arguing on the internet is for retards. Cool "bro?"

 

I'll take the knowledge I have from the nutritionist that I interact with once a week and my fitness model wife and leave the remaining info to you since you're the expert.

 

And yes, I'm 6'5" and about 10% bf.

 

You are the one who started the mudslinging with the Can of Soup comments - I was trying to be as civil as possible.

 

If you are going to make comments, at least have some science to back them up. Yes, I saw the pictures of your fitness model wife in your profile. Yes, you must be very proud. I would be too. Unfortunately, having a fitness model wife and visiting a nutritionist once a week doesn't really mean you know your stuff. The fact that you need to go see a nutritionist backs that up - have you actually seen what it takes to get accredited as a nutritionist.

 

If you are going to sling it, you gotta take it too, "Bro"

 

You talk, someone says something different, they provide info to back it up, you continue to talk with no real evidence, and then you have nothing else to say so you stop playing and take your ball home.

 

 

Im not saying I am 100% right or that you are 100% wrong, but if you want to have a civil argument, lets get some evidence up in here...

And yes, I'm 6'5" 225lbs, and about 10% bf.

 

Well then, I guess I'm glad we're having this conversation over the Internet...

If you are going to make comments, at least have some science to back them up.

 

The fact that you need to go see a nutritionist backs that up - have you actually seen what it takes to get accredited as a nutritionist.

 

You talk, someone says something different, they provide info to back it up, you continue to talk with no real evidence, and then you have nothing else to say so you stop playing and take your ball home.

 

Im not saying I am 100% right or that you are 100% wrong, but if you want to have a civil argument, lets get some evidence up in here...

 

Cans of soup and "you're a joke" are quite different in terms of slinging, but I'll overlook it and try to dig up some pubmed stuff I have at my office and post it up.

 

And I see a nutritionist because I'm serious about what I put in my body and how I look. I agree they are experts and I like the constant feedback and adjustments that can be made if I'm feeling a little off. I don't have the time to devote to the planning. This isn't the best example but it's kind of like having a maid. I know how to mop, I would just rather pay someone else to do it for me.

 

Also, I'm certain that some of my experience is based in pseudo-science, but I get great results from what I do and I like helping people, so I enjoy contributing on threads like this when someone is trying to achieve a fitness goal.

Cans of soup and "you're a joke" are quite different in terms of slinging, but I'll overlook it and try to dig up some pubmed stuff I have at my office and post it up.

 

And I see a nutritionist because I'm serious about what I put in my body and how I look. I agree they are experts and I like the constant feedback and adjustments that can be made if I'm feeling a little off. I don't have the time to devote to the planning. This isn't the best example but it's kind of like having a maid. I know how to mop, I would just rather pay someone else to do it for me.

 

Also, I'm certain that some of my experience is based in pseudo-science, but I get great results from what I do and I like helping people, so I enjoy contributing on threads like this when someone is trying to achieve a fitness goal.

 

So maybe the "you're a joke" was going a little far, and for that I do apologize. I do get passionate about this kind of stuff as i'm sure you do sometimes as well.

 

These threads always come down to things like this. This one is incredibly tame because it is on a car forum, but on most fitness related forums it just turns into hate, name calling, and overall BS. That's just the nature of the beast - there are so many different ways to reach the same goal, so many people are loyal to their ways, so many people have their own personal experiences, so many different things that work, etc...

 

You are right - if it works for you, that's all thats important. In the grand scheme of things, all these little details have almost no effect on the end result and for 99% of the population, it just confuses them and discourages them from moving ahead to reach their fitness goals.

 

At least people can have a look at a few different points of view, read the information provided, make their own decisions and get in better shape because of it. That is the main goal - stimulate peoples minds, get them eating better, and hitting the gym...

dunitlongpole - if we lose 05LSV from this thread we lose someone who I consider a valuable contributor to the discussion. If we lose you nobody blinks.

 

The guy has posted his balls off giving us great information, has posted photos of himself and his wife who both are clearly walking the walk and are in the top 1% in terms of physical mastery so bottom line it's time for you to take a break from this thread and let him continue.

So maybe the "you're a joke" was going a little far, and for that I do apologize. I do get passionate about this kind of stuff as i'm sure you do sometimes as well.

 

These threads always come down to things like this. This one is incredibly tame because it is on a car forum, but on most fitness related forums it just turns into hate, name calling, and overall BS. That's just the nature of the beast - there are so many different ways to reach the same goal, so many people are loyal to their ways, so many people have their own personal experiences, so many different things that work, etc...

 

You are right - if it works for you, that's all thats important. In the grand scheme of things, all these little details have almost no effect on the end result and for 99% of the population, it just confuses them and discourages them from moving ahead to reach their fitness goals.

 

At least people can have a look at a few different points of view, read the information provided, make their own decisions and get in better shape because of it. That is the main goal - stimulate peoples minds, get them eating better, and hitting the gym...

As far as I'm concerned, 05LSV has not only shown excellent knowledge, but also practices what he preaches. Are you willing to show your personal level of fitness to at least verify you aren't just a keyboard warrior starting trouble? The is some credence to some of what you posted, but the degree to which you are arguing your information is the gospel and absolute (and everyone else is retarded) is downright silly.