US Helo down

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Afghan. vet here... taking another persons life changes you... I didn't sign up to "kill people"

They say war is hell, and it's true... try watching your buddies in a convoy get caught in an IED and blown to pieces, or in 'nam when they would strap bombs on the kids and your choice was shoot them or die... also when people ask that, it reminds me of all the times I was shot at, or worse, when they would launch rockets or mortars at us on base... that is one of the worst things in the world, waiting for it to end, not knowing if one of them had your name on it...

 

I served in the army 2006-2010 in the 13th Aviation Regiment as crew chief on a UH-60 (door gunner). I had six confirmed kills and about 10 unconfirmed. You definitely arent as phased by lighting people up from the air as you are on the ground (ive been in firefights on the ground as well). For a while it messed with me, gave me anxiety because I was always worried about killing civilians, but eventually I became numb to it. It really fucked some guys up, a friend of mine moved on to the rangers and he takes a polaroid of every person he kills and keeps it with him (says he has something like 35 pictures)

 

 

Viet Nam Vet, here...

 

First time I killed was while we were out on patrols near Phan Lac. Got ambushed by VC.

 

I had to kill to save my life and the lives of my buddies, just like they were doing. No time to think, only to act.

 

Afterwards I puked my brains out. I wasn't the same after that. It changes you and not for the better.

 

As somebody who fought in Vietnam and killed quite a few people, let me say this and hopefully it will explain it for you...

 

You wouldn't understand.

 

 

 

 

 

God Bless our Troops

All SEALs....

 

Last time a Helo of seals went down the "Lone Survivor" came out.....

 

Not all SEALs... Nightstalkers and CACs as well.... I dont see a book coming out... Theres nobody left to write one.

 

From what I understand it there was another allied force pinned down and the Helo was a Quick Reaction Force. It sounds like the group the Helo was trying to reinforce was also all killed. Not sure if that INCLUDES some of the 20+ SEALs/CACs theyve said were KIA or if there are MORE people dead in addition to them...

I guess there is no way to avoid this type of event from happening is there? Maybe one of the members of the military can chime in here, but can they divide these groups up so that so many aren't killed if the helo crashes or is shot down? Such a tragedy to lose so many at one time and to lose the caliber of soldier these folks were...I know they can get killed in a fire-fight as well, but to get shot out of the air...damn.

 

Also, as soon as it happened, the reports seemed to mention "Seal Team 6" right away...how do they know which group was killed, as I thought most of their movement's were kept as secret as possible?

 

Anyway, RD, I hope your buddies are safe.

I guess there is no way to avoid this type of event from happening is there? Maybe one of the members of the military can chime in here, but can they divide these groups up so that so many aren't killed if the helo crashes or is shot down? Such a tragedy to lose so many at one time and to lose the caliber of soldier these folks were...I know they can get killed in a fire-fight as well, but to get shot out of the air...damn.

 

Also, as soon as it happened, the reports seemed to mention "Seal Team 6" right away...how do they know which group was killed, as I thought most of their movement's were kept as secret as possible?

 

Anyway, RD, I hope your buddies are safe.

 

You dont plan to have the helicopter shot down. Its a rare thing. And my guess is the guys got the call that their help was needed and they hopped on the first available helo and headed out.

 

As far as the rest- The DOD knows EXACTLY who was on the Helo and who they are assigned to before the first press release was put out...

 

It sounds like they should release all the names by tomorrow. So far my friend's name hasn't been mentioned. The last I heard he was a reservist (yes... the SEALs have two reserve Teams) living in So Cal with a pretty successful civilian career, but then he up and moved to the East coast out of the blue about 6 months ago under circumstances that were unusual enough to make me wonder what was up...

Not all SEALs... Nightstalkers and CACs as well.... I dont see a book coming out... Theres nobody left to write one.

 

From what I understand it there was another allied force pinned down and the Helo was a Quick Reaction Force. It sounds like the group the Helo was trying to reinforce was also all killed. Not sure if that INCLUDES some of the 20+ SEALs/CACs theyve said were KIA or if there are MORE people dead in addition to them...

I know I was just saying what happened last time.

http://coronado.patch.com/articles/one-man...killed-saturday

Thoughts and prayers.

7 Afghanis, 3 Air Force combat Contollers, 5 Army Air crewman (now its sounding like they weren't from SOAR- They were Tennessee National Guard), 2 Conventional SEALS, and the other 20 are from Devgru Gold squadron- One entire troop wiped out.

RIP

Spoke to a few active Marines today, and they had a little info on this (which I hadnt read online):

 

They said the insurgents went public to claim responsibility on shooting down the helicopter almost when the incident happened which leads the US GOV to believe that someone inside our Armed Forces may have leaked some intel to the insurgents to let them know that a high level target was headed their way, He also mentioned that the US Troops actually trained the Taliban to be very accurate with SAM's when they were fighting the USSR, and they have TONS of our equipment that we gave them that they are now using to shoot down our guys.

 

They also said that our guys on the ground ended up taking out quite a few of the insurgents as well.

 

Was a pretty interesting conversation.

Now, make the pricks pay ten fold.

Now, make the pricks pay ten fold.

 

 

If I were a Taliban member in Wardak Province, Id take my Winter Vacation early this year... Like starting tonight.... Maybe a pilgrimage to Antartica.... Penguins need religion too.

If I were a Taliban member in Wardak Province, Id take my Winter Vacation early this year... Like starting tonight.... Maybe a pilgrimage to Antartica.... Penguins need religion too.

Spoke to a few active Marines today, and they had a little info on this (which I hadnt read online):

 

They said the insurgents went public to claim responsibility on shooting down the helicopter almost when the incident happened which leads the US GOV to believe that someone inside our Armed Forces may have leaked some intel to the insurgents to let them know that a high level target was headed their way, He also mentioned that the US Troops actually trained the Taliban to be very accurate with SAM's when they were fighting the USSR, and they have TONS of our equipment that we gave them that they are now using to shoot down our guys.

 

They also said that our guys on the ground ended up taking out quite a few of the insurgents as well.

 

Was a pretty interesting conversation.

 

Interesting, but I don't think we ever trained "the Taliban" as the Soviets withdrew in '89 a few years before the Taliban emerged. We could have trained some people who were later part of the Taliban though. Plus all the reports I've heard thus far indicate this was an RPG and not a SAM, i.e., more of a "lucky shot" situation, but that could be incorrect.

Interesting, but I don't think we ever trained "the Taliban" as the Soviets withdrew in '89 a few years before the Taliban emerged. We could have trained some people who were later part of the Taliban though. Plus all the reports I've heard thus far indicate this was an RPG and not a SAM, i.e., more of a "lucky shot" situation, but that could be incorrect.

 

Not sure. Could be like you said we trained what was later to become the Taliban. He just got back from Afghanistan a few months ago, and is Active Duty (with a pretty high rank), so I took what he said pretty seriously.

Not sure. Could be like you said we trained what was later to become the Taliban. He just got back from Afghanistan a few months ago, and is Active Duty (with a pretty high rank), so I took what he said pretty seriously.

 

 

We trained and financed the "Mujahedin" which were native Afghans, (As opposed to the Arab fighters who would later become the base for AQ- We probably would have helped them, but they hated us even then). Some of the Muj became the Taliban, some became the "Northern Alliance" and most just went back to their villages and tried to live their lives.

 

We did give them stingers.... But we didnt give them THAT MANY (they are expensive as hell we only ever gave them a few hundred of the things) the ones we gave them they either used against the soviets or, they have outlived their shelf life, and without a little "service" they wouldnt work at all, at this point.

 

Is it POSSIBLE it was a Jerry-rigged U.S. stinger- Maybe... More likely just a whole lotta RPGs, or maybe a Russian Shoulder fired SAM given to them by the Pakistani ISI...

The AQ claim that they have modified their RPGs to be more accurate according sources in UK press, lucky strike.

As for leaked intel, wasn't this a response flight rather than a scheduled flight?

Hearing that a second CH went down. No comfirmed KIA.

The AQ claim that they have modified their RPGs to be more accurate according sources in UK press, lucky strike.

As for leaked intel, wasn't this a response flight rather than a scheduled flight?

 

 

They were on the ground to reinforce a group of pinned down rangers (who I am assuming were ALSO all killed, but I havent heard word one about them)... The QRF team decided to retreat, called for the helo to come back and pick them up and on liftoff (Chinooks are HUGE- twin rotor, flying semi-trucks that take off agonizingly slowly and make BIG fcuking TARGETS while they do....) the enemy opened up on the helo, bringing it down.

They were on the ground to reinforce a group of pinned down rangers (who I am assuming were ALSO all killed, but I havent heard word one about them)... The QRF team decided to retreat, called for the helo to come back and pick them up and on liftoff (Chinooks are HUGE- twin rotor, flying semi-trucks that take off agonizingly slowly and make BIG fcuking TARGETS while they do....) the enemy opened up on the helo, bringing it down.

I know that chinnock is a big ol beast but I thought policy was that they went into fire zones after cleared by apaches? That is what was written in apache Dawn which is a must read IMO.

The AQ claim that they have modified their RPGs to be more accurate according sources in UK press, lucky strike.

As for leaked intel, wasn't this a response flight rather than a scheduled flight?

 

 

It was a response flight, but they knew what kind of target was coming their way, and who was on board when they responded which was right after the incident. Not easy to know who is on board a helicopter after it is lit up by RPG's other than possibly waiting for any fire to subside, picking apart whats left of it, and trying to find specialized weapons (and knowing what team may have said weaponry).

 

BTW...

 

I have unbanned Spasmatt.

 

I hope I wont regret it.

Anger

 

a senior government official said on condition of anonymity that a Taliban commander, Qari Tahir, lured US forces to the scene by tipping them off that a Taliban meeting was taking place.

 

He also said four Pakistanis helped Mr Tahir carry out the strike.

 

"Now it's confirmed that the helicopter was shot down and it was a trap that was set by a Taliban commander," said the official, citing intelligence gathered from the area.

 

"The Taliban knew which route the helicopter would take.

 

"That's the only route, so they took position on the either side of the valley on mountains and as the helicopter approached, they attacked it with rockets and other modern weapons. It was brought down by multiple shots."

And.... What do ya know... Somebody dropped a house on a bunch of shitsticks in Pakistan...

 

 

US and NATO will let the IRF story run it's course until they take a definitive stance on Pakistan. When I was in Iraq and Afghanistan the tension between us and Pakistani leaders, much less citizens, was horrendous. Unfortunately we have a lot of coalition forces dying and it is time to come out and put a red dot on EVERYONE known to assist extremist. If they do not it is hard to imagine sustaining the already little to no support for the war globally. One thing that made me very happy to leave that hell hole was that I was angered at an atomic level with the 'don't point a finger at 'them' (use the term very loosely, they sure did) because it will cause a global outcry. We can't target too many people without being considered war mongers'. I had to hear that more times than I should and could not stand for it. Label everyone, welcome to the real world.

 

Best