Gun control in US

One other thing.... You all know how I feel about guns... BUT...

 

IF Nancy Lanza were still alive, depending on the information that comes out about her son's mental condition, and if she KNEW, or SHOULD HAVE KNOWN that he might pose a danger to ANYBODY because of HER firearms and DIDN'T take substantial steps to prevent him from accessing them, I would be completely comfortable with seeing her charged with 27 counts of murder... And EVERYTHING that goes along with that.

 

Maybe it will come out that she had these fcuking guns in a safe, and Jr. spent Thursday night with the acetylene torch while she was out doing something else... Im guessing it wasn't that difficult for him though.

One other thing.... You all know how I feel about guns... BUT...

 

IF Nancy Lanza were still alive, depending on the information that comes out about her son's mental condition, and if she KNEW, or SHOULD HAVE KNOWN that he might pose a danger to ANYBODY because of HER firearms and DIDN'T take substantial steps to prevent him from accessing them, I would be completely comfortable with seeing her charged with 27 counts of murder... And EVERYTHING that goes along with that.

 

Maybe it will come out that she had these fcuking guns in a safe, and Jr. spent Thursday night with the acetylene torch while she was out doing something else... Im guessing it wasn't that difficult for him though.

 

I was thinking about this and I'm guessing they were secured to some extent or else he would have been much less likely to attempt to purchase a rifle from Dick's Sporting Goods. I'm guessing when they told him there would be a waiting period and background check he decided to revert to mom's guns and either forced her to open the safe or destroyed it.

http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp

This says it all..

This says it all..

It actually doesn't say much at all. There is not enough information past the "lift of the ban" to draw any conclusions. Dumb graph that is trying to send a message without having meaningful data.

It actually doesn't say much at all. There is not enough information past the "lift of the ban" to draw any conclusions. Dumb graph that is trying to send a message without having meaningful data.

Do you find the paragraph below the graph in the article substantial?

"* During the years in which the D.C. handgun ban and trigger lock law was in effect, the Washington, D.C. murder rate averaged 73% higher than it was at the outset of the law, while the U.S. murder rate averaged 11% lower.[37]"

It actually doesn't say much at all. There is not enough information past the "lift of the ban" to draw any conclusions. Dumb graph that is trying to send a message without having meaningful data.

 

DC Murder Rate on Track for Lowest Number in 50 Years

 

Right after the ban was enacted, crime spiked as indicated by the graph. Right after it was lifted, crime plummeted as indicated by this article.

Do you find the paragraph below the graph in the article substantial?

"* During the years in which the D.C. handgun ban and trigger lock law was in effect, the Washington, D.C. murder rate averaged 73% higher than it was at the outset of the law, while the U.S. murder rate averaged 11% lower.[37]"

No, because it is trying to draw a causation conclusion that is inaccurate without more data.

DC Murder Rate on Track for Lowest Number in 50 Years

 

Right after the ban was enacted, crime spiked as indicated by the graph. Right after it was lifted, crime plummeted as indicated by this article.

By "right after" you mean more than ten years later? Jesus christ guys. I'm pro-gun but this is silly. We don't even have 10 years of data post repeal!

 

From 1988-1998 my dick grew substantially more than any other years - should we also conclude my cock is to blame for the rise in DC murders?

By "right after" you mean more than ten years later? Jesus christ guys. I'm pro-gun but this is silly. We don't even have 10 years of data post repeal!

 

From 1988-1998 my dick grew substantially more than any other years - should we also conclude my cock is to blame for the rise in DC murders?

Common sense rules!

 

No, because it is trying to draw a causation conclusion that is inaccurate without more data.

 

 

What we CAN say, without question or controversy, is the GUN BAN in DC did NOTHING to REDUCE gun crime in DC...

 

We infringed on millions of people's freedoms, spent billions of dollars, and made criminals out of ordinary people, and didn't make DC any safer than it was before the ban.

 

How that can be described as anything other than a FAILURE IS beyond me.

That graph should have been extended to include more years after the ban was lifted if at all possible. But, scrolling down reveals the murder rates after concealed carry permits were issued in states, these are more accurate.

That graph should have been extended to include more years after the ban was lifted if at all possible. But, scrolling down reveals the murder rates after concealed carry permits were issued in states, these are more accurate.

Theres only three years of data available after that chart ends, but it keeps going down... This year will be the lowest homicide rate since long before the ban went into place... Does that mean LIFTING the ban CAUSED it to go down? We cant say that... But it didnt make it go UP...

Theres only three years of data available after that chart ends, but it keeps going down... This year will be the lowest homicide rate since long before the ban went into place... Does that mean LIFTING the ban CAUSED it to go down? We cant say that... But it didnt make it go UP...

 

Agreed.

IF Nancy Lanza were still alive, depending on the information that comes out about her son's mental condition, and if she KNEW, or SHOULD HAVE KNOWN that he might pose a danger to ANYBODY because of HER firearms and DIDN'T take substantial steps to prevent him from accessing them, I would be completely comfortable with seeing her charged with 27 counts of murder... And EVERYTHING that goes along with that.

 

Spot on, those things need to happen and gun owners have to know they will be held responsible if they leave their guns where they could be easily accessed.Weapons are dangerous in the hands of people who don't know how to handle them.

 

In relation to the graphs and statistics even the one I posted about Australia after the ban was introduced, the ban had very little to no impact on crime, we can't ignore the facts.

 

I strongly believe that a gun in the hands of a well trained, educated, responsible person is better than no gun but it still leaves us opened to the incompetent, irresponsible, uneducated crazies having to easy access to them, that definitely needs to be addressed.

 

 

 

 

I strongly believe that a gun in the hands of a well trained, educated, responsible person is better than no gun but it still leaves us opened to the incompetent, irresponsible, uneducated crazies having to easy access to them, that definitely needs to be addressed.

This a thousand times and again.

Since lawful retail firearm sales as well as gun thefts have been addressed, I'd like to see what ideas are brought out to handle private party sales.

Since lawful retail firearm sales as well as gun thefts have been addressed, I'd like to see what ideas are brought out to handle private party sales.

(west palm is allowed to ask this question... He will not be giving his opinions.)

 

Here Im going to break with most gun guys and say, NO GUN SHOULD BE LAWFULLY SOLD WITHOUT GOING THROUGH A NICS CHECK. Go to an FFL, do the paperwork, and make the transfer.... Costs a few bucks, and takes a few minutes.

 

 

Just the same... The NICS system is only as good as the info thats in it... And thats what we need to focus our efforts on.... If everybody who knows somebody, knows that they shouldnt own a gun, NICS SHOULD KNOW THAT TOO! And we have to figure out a way to get that info into the system.

RD do you have a link to a document which states the procedures you have to follow and things you have to comply with in order to obtain a permit to own and carry, is it different from state to state?

 

 

I always study/learn/understand before I form an opinion, this thread is very helpful for me to understand both sides of the story and form my own educated opinion.

RD do you have a link to a document which states the procedures you have to follow and things you have to comply with in order to obtain a permit to own and carry, is it different from state to state?

 

 

I always study/learn/understand before I form an opinion, this thread is very helpful for me to understand both sides of the story and form my own educated opinion.

Yes... It varies from state to state.... There are Four types of states:

 

Shall Issue (anybody who can pass a background check to own a gun, can get a permit to conceal it.)

May Issue (Its up to the state who gets to carry based on subjective criteria- usually the criteria in these states is how much can you afford to contribute to the issuing authorities campaign fund)

No Issue.... (before last week there were two no issue states... DC and Illinois.... The Court of Appeals ruled that Illinois ban on carry was unconstitutional on Thursday.)

Vermont- No permit to carry needed. (coincidentally one of the lowest crime rates in the country)

 

 

Heres an ad I helped make a few years ago that sheds a little light on the issue... Since it was made several other states have gone to shall issue...

 

Here's a good site for you to view, Fortis. http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_pe...nformation.html

In Utah my states requirements are as follows:

Requirements:

1. Applicant must be at least 21 years of age

2. Proof of good character…whereas the applicant;

a. has not been convicted of a felony;

b. has not been convicted of any crime of violence;

c. has not been convicted of any offense involving the use of alcohol;

d. has not been convicted of any offenses involving the unlawful use of narcotics or other controlled substances;

e. has not been convicted of any offenses involving moral turpitude;

f. has not been convicted of any offense involving domestic violence;

g. has not been adjudicated by a court of a state or of the United States as mentally incompetent, unless the adjudication has been withdrawn or reversed

 

Required Documents:

 

1. Completed Application

2. A Photocopy of your Driver License

3. Photograph. One recent color photograph of passport quality. *Photos may be taken at BCI.

4. Fingerprint Card. One fingerprint card. Must be filled out completely. Writing and prints must be legible. Fingerprint should be taken by a trained fingerprint technician. Fingerprint cards that are not legible will be returned to the applicant and will cause a delay in processing the application.

Here Im going to break with most gun guys and say, NO GUN SHOULD BE LAWFULLY SOLD WITHOUT GOING THROUGH A NICS CHECK. Go to an FFL, do the paperwork, and make the transfer.... Costs a few bucks, and takes a few minutes.

 

Yeah, I think that is a reasonable concession to make. If I can't buy a gun on GunBroker without going through an FFL, why can I buy one from some guy in a parking lot? At least make it consistent one way or the other. Do I need to be background checked or not?

 

 

Thank you guys, I will read it tonight, must run to few meetings now.

This was first enacted in 2008, but it's expanding. Tx school district allows staff and teachers to conceal carry

 

www.libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=33759&Disp=0

 

 

 

Rob thank you for the link, very interesting read, the ridiculous thing is the law seems to differ from state to state, also different areas within the same state could have different rules, very confusing.