Gun control in US

I live in Texas, and am a car owner, I have a couple in my home and in my garage. I do not consider myself a car nut, I dont go to car shows and very rarely go to the track, I own cars because I have been on the bus and do not want to be in a carless position ever again. In other words, I do not enjoy owning cars.

 

I do not see the point of owning a sports car, they are not good for hauling groceries, and not good for gas mileage, the only use for these cars is to go fast. so I would support a ban on these cars.

 

 

FIFY

 

And before you say "but cars arent meant to kill people"...

 

My AR (which when Im not on the range shooting it, is sitting unloaded in a VAULT) is a lot less likely to kill anybody than your sports car.... By a factor of a thousand....

 

 

I was taught to step back when I hear myself saying "I dont engage in such and such, so Its ALRIGHT WITH ME if its outlawed..." before you know it, they will come after something you do like.

 

 

"My excellent colleagues have forgotten these bitter lessons of history. The prospect of tyranny may not grab the headlines the way vivid stories of gun crime routinely do. But few saw the Third Reich coming until it was too late. The Second Amendment is a doomsday provision, one designed for those exceptionally rare circumstances where all other rights have failed—where the government refuses to stand for reelection and silences those who protest; where courts have lost the courage to oppose, or can find no one to enforce their decrees. However improbable these contingencies may seem today, facing them unprepared is a mistake a free people get to make only once."

Chief Judge Alex Kozinski- United States Court of Appeals, 9th Circuit

Did my post get deleted? I didn't think I said anything offensive, but rather just voicing my opinion.

Because the ADULT answer to the question of "what can be done to make this never happen again?" is "ABSOLUTELY NOTHING".

 

What can be done to forever prevent children from getting cancer? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

 

What can be done to forever prevent monsters from raping children? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

 

What can be done to forever prevent people from hurting each other? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

 

We can punish those who do, and try to set an example for others.... But if somebody is willing to DIE THEMSELVES in the process, then there is ZERO we can do to stop them....

 

You are correct, we will never be able to completly eradicate certain evils but I can't help it think that we certainly have to try harder, absolutely nothing isn't really the answer.

 

I know the incident is extremly isolated but innocent lives have been lost, could we have done more to prevent this? Perhaps we could've.

 

We must be more proactive in searching for solutions, I don't want to accept that us as a civilized society aren't able to come up with some kind of solution to at least attenuate the evils we are facing.

 

On a separte note

 

I know this is a very sensitive subject, I really appreciate everyone's point of view and I honestly want to learn from everyone's opinion, I hope we could keep the discussion very civilized so it will not end up in an argument. Thank you

I'm going to ask a couple of questions, I don't mean to criticize or anything I'm genuinely curious and interested in this issue.

 

I don't know exactly how the US gun laws work, but it seems to me that in the case of this school massacre, the perpetrator had too easy access to guns which were, I assume, lawfully owned by his parents. Isn't there any law that holds gun owners responsible for the security of their guns? In my country hand guns and assault weapons are largely banned with very few exceptions. We are however allowed to own hunting rifles (which also serve the purpose of self defense), and there are hundreds of thousands of rifles in citizens' hands and anyone is able to purchase one after a lengthy training process and after passing a psychological and background test, which is repeated every couple of years. The owner of the gun is responsible for what happens to it, and the law requires owners to keep them locked up in their homes, under strict supervision and reasonable security. Reasonable means that your kid or a burglar can't get to them without going through significant effort. The government can also drop in and check to see if the guns are kept in the way stipulated by the law, though this is very rare and they usually come to check if they receive some sort of complaint or tip that the guns are not stored securely. You can be prosecuted if found that you did not take reasonable precautions to keep your guns secure and they fall into the wrong hands, punishment can range from temporarily or permanently suspending your privilege to own guns and a heavy fine to jail time. They can also be used for self defense in your home or to recover stolen property (i.e. someone breaks into your home or a burglar makes off with your valuables, you are allowed to shoot him to recover them). It's a sort of a compromise, and you can use deadly force to defend your home as a last alternative, but there aren't any guns that are easily concealable or that can do a lot of damage(like assault rifles) available to the public.

The storage for guns usually costs many times more than the guns themselves because the gvt essentially mandates storing them in a safe deposit box with certain specifications and locking mechanisms if stored at home. If you can't afford one you also have the option to store your guns in an armory.

 

My question is, perhaps it's not about gun control but irresponsibility of gun owners? I don't think it's reasonable to ban certain guns a bullet is a bullet even if fired by a rifle or a pistol, but I do think it's reasonable to restrict ownership to certain individuals ( which have questionable mental health, exhibit a tendency for violence or a history of alcohol and drug abuse) and I also think it's reasonable to have them locked up safely. Perhaps if some strict way of storing guns is enacted by law tragedies like these would be avoided? For example if you own an assault rifle I do not see the "self defense" argument as being reasonable. You could go on owning your AK-47 or w/e other weapons tickle your fancy but have them stored securely in an armory rather than at home. Perhaps better psychological and background checks on people buying guns and stricter ways of storing them would lead to a reduction of such incidents. I don't believe they will go away completely, but maybe if this monster's parents had stored their guns responsibly this tragedy would have been avoided and this animal would have only managed to kill himself. Unrestricted availability of ammunition is also a problem imo. A gun only shoots as many bullets as you have at your disposal. If you only had a limited amount of ammunition in your home even if your gun falls into the wrong hands as was the case with this school shooting, the damage done would be limited as well. If you need hundreds of rounds of ammunition for 'self defense' you have serious problems to worry about, and imo you either need police protection or you got yourself into a nasty situation and are up to no good.

 

I was a kid when I lived in the USA with my family in the early to mid 90's and I don't recall it being unsafe, on the contrary it felt far safer than my own country. I don't know how things are in the USA now but I doubt anyone needs assault rifles or more than one gun and hundreds of rounds of ammunition for self defense purposes. People who are genuinely passionate about guns and shooting them could still do so, while keeping them away from potential nut cases that could endanger them and others.

 

Again I'm not trying to criticize or anything, I don't live there, I'm just trying to understand these gun debates and american gun owners views.

Btw, I didnt directly answer your questions, and I want to...

 

Thank you RD excellent points on all counts.

 

I certainly think one of the solution is more stringent background checks.

We have to somehow deal with the crazies, most family members will shelter them for various reasons, they need to be educated that its better to seek help than keep it as a secret.

To ban the guns his mom had, you might as well ban all guns period is the thing. It wasn't like she had some kind of special high-powered machine gun or

 

That's not necessarily true, if she were a more responsible gun owner she would've made sure the guns weren't accessible to anyone who wasn't licensed to carry, perhaps lock them in a safe, it is irresponsible to leave your guns in plain sight, I think most are too relaxed around guns and they need to be better educated.

 

 

I live in Texas, and am a gun owner, I have a couple in my home and in my cars. I do not consider myself a gun nut, I dont go to gun shows and very rarely go to the range, I own guns because I have been shot at and do not want to be in a defenseless position ever again. In other words, I do not enjoy owning guns.

 

I do not see the point of owning an assault riffle, they are not good for hunting, and not good for defense, the only use for these weapons is to attack someone. so I would support a ban on these guns.

 

Thank you Hollywood996 I would feel exactly the same as you do about owning guns, if there was a need I would definitely carry.

Ameer very well put, thank you for your contribution.

i sincerely think guns are a big USA problem. I know you say "i want it for my self defense", but if the thief or the aggressor does not have guns, maybe a baseball bat would be enough for self defense at home.

 

Here in Italy nobody has a gun, you must have a special license to own one and even with that you cannot carry it, you must keep it at home without the bullets in it, they must be separated. Here automatic weapons cannot have more than a three rounds magazine.

 

If police find you with a weapon on the road, this makes five years jail, even if you have the special weapon license: just security officers can carry a gun.

 

 

During my life I had for three times an on the road dispute and/or phisical fight for stupid reasons like bad driving and so on: in the US this probably had meant a gunfire battle with deads or woundeds and a lot of street terror. Here it was solved with some shouts, yelling, bumping, some small hits and no more, as there weren't weapons. I probably would have been shot down and killed (and i would never had a Countach...), as during those three episodes i never was the aggressor...

 

A "brain drilled" man with a gun is a disaster, like that happened yesterday: 20 children and 6 adults.

 

And there are a lot "brain drilled men", everywhere in the world

 

ciao

i sincerely think guns are a big USA problem. I know you say "i want it for my self defense", but if the thief or the aggressor does not have guns, maybe a baseball bat would be enough for self defense at home.

 

Here in Italy nobody has a gun, you must have a special license to own one and even with that you cannot carry it, you must keep it at home without the bullets in it, they must be separated. Here automatic weapons cannot have more than a three rounds magazine.

 

If police find you with a weapon on the road, this makes five years jail, even if you have the special weapon license: just security officers can carry a gun.

 

 

During my life I had for three times an on the road dispute and/or phisical fight for stupid reasons like bad driving and so on: in the US this probably had meant a gunfire battle with deads or woundeds and a lot of street terror. Here it was solved with some shouts, yelling, bumping, some small hits and no more, as there weren't weapons. I probably would have been shot down and killed (and i would never had a Countach...), as during those three episodes i never was the aggressor...

 

A "brain drilled" man with a gun is a disaster, like that happened yesterday: 20 children and 6 adults.

 

And there are a lot "brain drilled men", everywhere in the world

 

ciao

Reading this post makes me realize how happy I am I dont live in Europe.

Im extremely glad to know if a person who intends to cause me harm has broken into my home,my life and the life of my family members isnt dependent on me having close quarter physical combat with a baseball bat.

Reading this post makes me realize how happy I am I dont live in Europe.

Im extremely glad to know if a person who intends to cause me harm has broken into my home,my life and the life of my family members isnt dependent on me having close quarter physical combat with a baseball bat.

You can own guns in most european countries. There are some that have less restrictions than the USA. Some Scandinavians and Swiss even allow fully automatic weapons afaik. The Swiss and Fins for sure.

Reading this post makes me realize how happy I am I dont live in Europe.

 

Rob please, let's have a civilized exchange otherwise the thread will be closed, that's his opinion lets respect it, we don't always see eye to eye on every issue and its always good to see everyone's side of the story, there is always added benefit in exchanging information and sharing a different point of view.

 

Thank you for your understanding

You can own guns in most european countries. There are some that have less restrictions than the USA. Some Scandinavians and Swiss even allow fully automatic weapons afaik. The Swiss and Fins for sure.

I didnt know that! Thanks.

The mentality of "If someone wants to harm me,my way of defending myself shouldnt be beyond his means of harming me" bothers me.

If someone is attacking me with a baseball bat or knife or kitchen spatula or whatever it is..I really dont want to be evenly matched.

Rob please, let's have a civilized exchange otherwise the thread will be closed, that's his opinion lets respect it, we don't always see eye to eye on every issue and its always good to see everyone's side of the story, there is always added benefit in exchanging information and sharing a different point of view.

 

Thank you for your understanding

Sure! I agree, I didnt mean to offend. I should have said that it makes me feel more happy to live where I do that I have the ability to defend myself with weapons of my choosing! I apologize!

Im extremely glad to know if a person who intends to cause me harm has broken into my home,my life and the life of my family members isnt dependent on me having close quarter physical combat with a baseball bat.

 

At home you can have a gun also here and you can kill the aggressor with it, if he is armed and opens fire against you. But you must have a "gun license" to keep it at home. The difference is that you cannot go out of your home with a gun. You can own an AR15 too, but just with a three rounds magazine and just at home. If you go to a "shooting facility" you have to declare to local police command the route you will follow with your car to reach the shooting facility, and if they find you off route they will give you five years jail.

Thiefs do not have guns here.

 

This is just my opinion and what happens here: i know USA history and society is different.

 

ciao

Reading this post makes me realize how happy I am I dont live in Europe.

Im extremely glad to know if a person who intends to cause me harm has broken into my home,my life and the life of my family members isnt dependent on me having close quarter physical combat with a baseball bat.

Yeah and I´m happy that I don´t need top fear for my childrens life when they´re at school....

 

Seeing that the Swiss have a way higher percentage of gun owners and that such incidents there seem almost non existent one has to wonder wether it is actually the US society in some region that is the problem rather then guns per se.

Anyay I don´t see much good in owning guns but to each his own.

Rob please, let's have a civilized exchange otherwise the thread will be closed, that's his opinion lets respect it, we don't always see eye to eye on every issue and its always good to see everyone's side of the story, there is always added benefit in exchanging information and sharing a different point of view.

 

Thank you for your understanding

 

 

Thank you Fortis, but everything was ok: Robster was just shaken for this school massacre like we all are. He wrote me a PM and there are zero problems between us.

 

ciao

 

 

 

 

Sure! I agree, I didnt mean to offend. I should have said that it makes me feel more happy to live where I do that I have the ability to defend myself with weapons of my choosing! I apologize!

 

Thank you

At home you can have a gun also here and you can kill the aggressor with it, if he is armed and opens fire against you. But you must have a "gun license" to keep it at home. The difference is that you cannot go out of your home with a gun. You can own an AR15 too, but just with a three rounds magazine and just at home. If you go to a "shooting facility" you have to declare to local police command the route you will follow with your car to reach the shooting facility, and if they find you off route they will give you five years jail.

Thiefs do not have guns here.

 

This is just my opinion and what happens here: i know USA history and society is different.

 

ciao

 

Very interesting to see how different countries deal with guns.

 

Thank you Fortis, but everything was ok: Robster was just shaken for this school massacre like we all are. He wrote me a PM and there are zero problems between us.

 

ciao

 

I can understand, we all are, Rob is a gentlemen so no problems there, I just want the thread open so we can carry on a civilized conversation, I know we are capable of it.

Did my post get deleted? I didn't think I said anything offensive, but rather just voicing my opinion.

Please read the stickies.

During my life I had for three times an on the road dispute and/or phisical fight for stupid reasons like bad driving and so on: in the US this probably had meant a gunfire battle with deads or woundeds and a lot of street terror. Here it was solved with some shouts, yelling, bumping, some small hits and no more, as there weren't weapons. I probably would have been shot down and killed (and i would never had a Countach...), as during those three episodes i never was the aggressor...

 

 

If thats the case, then you've proven why europeans shouldnt own guns... What you've just described sounds like a cartoon to me.

 

America is awash with guns, and we get just as pissed off at other drivers as any where else... And guns are almost never involved... In the rare cases they are, it usually turns out road rage had nothing to do with the incident, but that it was a car jacking or other intentionally motivated crime (one gang member sees a rival gang member on the 110 freeway and "its on"... Etc..)

 

And as a matter of fact, this is an example of where guns make for a BETTER society. I dont know ANYBODY, who has ever gotten out of their vehicle during an on-road altercation... You might honk at somebody, or MAYBE give them the finger... But you don't get out of your car and start a fight for the precise reason the other guy might have a gun.

 

America is a safe country. It was a safe country yesterday, its a safe country today. One A-hole in a school not withstanding. Its safe to send your children to school... Events like this and the wall to wall coverage of them tend to make an event feel more prevalent than it is... It is an aberration. And, again, occurred in one of the Federally Mandated "Gun Free School Zones'. Six Adults tried to stop this guy. Six people HEARD GUNFIRE and they ran TOWARDS IT. If ONE had a gun, this ends MUCH differently.

I can understand, we all are, Rob is a gentlemen so no problems there, I just want the thread open so we can carry on a civilized conversation, I know we are capable of it.

 

Yeah there is no need to turn this into an X vs Y thread, it's always counterproductive. I'm really curious about what others have to say on this matter.

i sincerely think guns are a big USA problem. I know you say "i want it for my self defense", but if the thief or the aggressor does not have guns, maybe a baseball bat would be enough for self defense at home.

 

Thing to remember though is that a 100 lb mother protecting her children is not going to be a match for a 200 lb punk with just a baseball bat.

Of course its possible... Are you a felon or are you insane? U.S. citizen or resident alien? Dishonorable discharge?

Not a felon, not insane, US citizen, no discharge.