I don't understand the logic...NYC

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/city-p...ticle-1.1801477

 

The City plans to attack economic segregation in its affordable housing plan — placing the poor in middle-class neighborhoods and the more affluent in high-poverty spots.

 

Housing Preservation and Development Commissioner Vicki Been said the plan to build 80,000 new affordable apartments and preserve 120,000 units would create a more diverse city.

 

“We really have to make economic diversity a cornerstone of that plan,” she said at a City Council budget hearing Wednesday.

 

“That means that in some neighborhoods that have mostly middle or upper-income housing, that we would need to put affordable housing at the very lowest income,” she said.

 

“But in some communities where we have a great deal of poverty . . . we would try to bring more moderate (-income housing) into those neighborhoods, to try to achieve the kind of diversity that we want,” Been said.

 

De Blasio’s executive budget boosted the housing department’s capital cash to $3.1 billion, up from $1.9 billion in his January preliminary budget, to help pay for the ambitious proposal.

NYC PAPERS OUT. Social media use restricted to low res file max 184 x 128 pixels and 72 dpi Susan Watts/New York Daily News Housing Preservation and Development Commissioner Vicki Been said the plan to build 80,000 new affordable apartments and preserve 120,000 units would create a more diverse city.

 

Been said the emphasis would be on two groups traditionally overlooked in city affordable housing programs — the very low income and the middle class. The city will quadruple the number of apartments geared to the poorest New Yorkers, who make less than $25,000 for a family of four, and increase by 50% the number for those making $68,000 to 103,000.

 

Exact locations where housing developments will be built have not yet been chosen.

 

Council housing chairman Jumaane Williams (D-Brooklyn) hailed the proposal, though he said he anticipated some resistance both from affluent New Yorkers unhappy about low-income developments in their neighborhoods and from residents of poorer areas who don’t want to be surrounded by housing that’s out of their reach.

 

“I do think there will be some concern in certain communities,” he added. “We will have to explain to people why we’re doing what we’re doing.”

 

 

 

 

 

Should they really be interfering like this? I am all for helping the poor but I'm positive there are plenty of ways to help those that need it without having to do something so drastic.

 

 

this somewhat reminds me of my recent trip to san francisco where i came across a neighborhood called bayview...anyways the area is pretty sketchy but the interesting thing is that houses in the area start at 500k+, so we are talking about middle class people living in an area which i would consider ghetto. new yorks plan of increasing housing has more to do with developers and the city making money, its just put under a liberal cloak

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/city-p...ticle-1.1801477

 

The City plans to attack economic segregation in its affordable housing plan — placing the poor in middle-class neighborhoods and the more affluent in high-poverty spots.

 

Housing Preservation and Development Commissioner Vicki Been said the plan to build 80,000 new affordable apartments and preserve 120,000 units would create a more diverse city.

 

“We really have to make economic diversity a cornerstone of that plan,” she said at a City Council budget hearing Wednesday.

 

“That means that in some neighborhoods that have mostly middle or upper-income housing, that we would need to put affordable housing at the very lowest income,” she said.

 

“But in some communities where we have a great deal of poverty . . . we would try to bring more moderate (-income housing) into those neighborhoods, to try to achieve the kind of diversity that we want,” Been said.

 

De Blasio’s executive budget boosted the housing department’s capital cash to $3.1 billion, up from $1.9 billion in his January preliminary budget, to help pay for the ambitious proposal.

NYC PAPERS OUT. Social media use restricted to low res file max 184 x 128 pixels and 72 dpi Susan Watts/New York Daily News Housing Preservation and Development Commissioner Vicki Been said the plan to build 80,000 new affordable apartments and preserve 120,000 units would create a more diverse city.

 

Been said the emphasis would be on two groups traditionally overlooked in city affordable housing programs — the very low income and the middle class. The city will quadruple the number of apartments geared to the poorest New Yorkers, who make less than $25,000 for a family of four, and increase by 50% the number for those making $68,000 to 103,000.

 

Exact locations where housing developments will be built have not yet been chosen.

 

Council housing chairman Jumaane Williams (D-Brooklyn) hailed the proposal, though he said he anticipated some resistance both from affluent New Yorkers unhappy about low-income developments in their neighborhoods and from residents of poorer areas who don’t want to be surrounded by housing that’s out of their reach.

 

“I do think there will be some concern in certain communities,” he added. “We will have to explain to people why we’re doing what we’re doing.”

 

 

 

 

 

Should they really be interfering like this? I am all for helping the poor but I'm positive there are plenty of ways to help those that need it without having to do something so drastic.

 

It's hubris to think you can control where people of different economic status live... Because guess what. There is a reason the upwardly mobile are called upwardly MOBILE.

 

It's hubris to think you can control where people of different economic status live... Because guess what. There is a reason the upwardly mobile are called upwardly MOBILE.

 

its possible to control where people live to a certain extent...in example giving developers incentives to build low income housing by increasing the overal size of their project...think regular apartment building = 1 unit per 1,000 sq ft of land, if you make 30% of the units low income then you can build 1 unit per 600 sq ft. But generally i agree with you, its foolish. there are trends in gentrification though but that is the opposite of what nyc wants to accomplish

its possible to control where people live to a certain extent...in example giving developers incentives to build low income housing by increasing the overal size of their project...think regular apartment building = 1 unit per 1,000 sq ft of land, if you make 30% of the units low income then you can build 1 unit per 600 sq ft. But generally i agree with you, its foolish. there are trends in gentrification though but that is the opposite of what nyc wants to accomplish

 

 

But you cant force the middle and upper xlass to live/ stay there.

 

 

Example. In the 1950s south Los Angeles was an upper middle class neighborhood. In the 1960's lower income families began to move in, namely because thats where "low income housing" and "projects" were built. Was the result an economically and racially diverse neighborhood? Of course not! The result was "white flight" to the valley and Orange County, and South Central becomming a fcuking place you didnt drive through after dark.

But you cant force the middle and upper xlass to live/ stay there.

 

 

Example. In the 1950s south Los Angeles was an upper middle class neighborhood. In the 1960's lower income families began to move in, namely because thats where "low income housing" and "projects" were built. Was the result an economically and racially diverse neighborhood? Of course not! The result was "white flight" to the valley and Orange County, and South Central becomming a fcuking place you didnt drive through after dark.

 

i completely agree with you, its foolish and it wont work the same way that rent control was a major failure

It is not possible. Developing mixed-income residences, I am in favor of. I am a fan of housing, and developed an agency that develops supportive housing units for people that need it.

 

However, this is different. From what I read, De Blasio is putting up public dollars to provide financial assistance for developers to develop expensive residences in poor neighborhoods and low-income residences in middle to wealthier neighborhoods?

 

With the very limited third-party information I have, I agree with VVS: it sounds like easy money for developers with a "feel good" message.

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Now, as someone who loves mixed-income community designs, I realize that these development plans involve way more than "we have a budget, let's build" simplicity. There are only positives for mixed-income neighborhoods, however, it is difficult, and must be done correctly do be suitable.

 

For instance, building low-income apartments in neighborhoods that have say, an average income of $96,000 per capita will have the unintended consequence of disenfranchising low-income consumers, because their expenses are going to rise to afford the higher prices, or have to travel outside of their community to access affordable goods until the "low-income consumer" market is large enough to bring prices down locally, which could, send certain high-price businesses packing.

 

Luckily, it's NYC, so there is public transit everywhere. However, in most places in the U.S., we'd have to talk about improving public transit systems because, generally, higher middle income and more neighborhoods are designed without appropriate transit and pedestrian design.

 

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Lastly, the success of it is reliant on change in social opinions of class. Living in far north Dallas, I highly doubt my neighbors would be able to deal well. Hell, right now, there are a lot of residents fighting the proposed development of high rise condo's/apartments. A low-income housing unit? even my most liberal neighbors would "have some concerns" lol

there was a major problem where i live

 

in order to get the permits from the city to build luxury condos the builders and owners had to put in 4-8 free apartments for govt housing so you have a place with 1 mil plus condos and 8 free section 8 condos. and there was some type of lottery on who in the other govt housing got to move in to the apt. need less to say a year and a half later it has not worked out. half the apt are up for sale with tenets moving out and the construction on the other buildings have stopped the builders are now suing because the city and state. who is now demanding 20% of the building to be affordable living and govt housing. I can understand on paper how they think this could would but it has not. but it fail big time

Nothing surprising here, De Blasio is VERY far-left-wing. Almost comically so. As Romandad mentioned, all this stuff was tried (with failure) in the 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s. The Left believed all we had to do was spend enough money on things like poverty and we could fix them completely, and we could create racially diverse neighborhoods by moving the poor into the middle class areas, and all that.

When will people learn? Communism does not work!

New Yorkers voted this idiot in, we will see how they embrace dropping projects into their neighborhood and see who will flock to the upper income units they build in the low end neighborhoods.

LOL! This is ridiculous! To think something like this will ever work out is laughable.

 

To be fair I probably wouldn't find it funny if I lived there

When will people learn? Communism does not work!

 

And the congregation yelled AMEN !!!!!!

Unfortunately in the USA the yoke of racism prevents an honest conversation on many issues that intersect the race issue, and this is one of those issues. This plan for "diversity" will ultimately be a complete failure for several reasons.

People cannot be forced to live where & with who they do not want to. The whole point of accumulating wealth in this society is to be able to control all aspects of life with minimal limitations. Most important of those is where you choose to live....and with whom.

 

The harsh reality is that for most people poverty is a condition of the mind. Poor people are poor because they "think poor" and have "poor" attitudes towards civic duty, education, health & money. Generally you will find "poor" people do not actively participate in local, state & national elections or attend political town meetings; have no preparation for future educational expenses for themselves or their children; have multiple health issues; have minimal or no savings and limited or no plans for the future (i.e. retirement & children's education) and in general a lower level of social responsibility.

More resources are required to maintain many"poor" people because they tend to have a myriad of social problems such as unstable parental & social relationships, legal problems and drug/alcohol related issues.

 

Contrast this with many of the people on this forum. Business owners/entrepreneurs and highly skilled laborers who have sacrificed short term pleasure for long term financial security. Many of you here are in stable, committed relationships and have many years of advanced educational training with multiple certifications and degrees. Inferred from the posts members have made there seems to be a higher level of consciousness of political issues and involvement with the political system. Preparation for both future educational expenses & needs of the family seems to be a common activity while maintaining a higher level of health through diet & exercise is regularly done here.

 

People that consider themselves middle class and beyond do not want to deal with all the negatives of urban life (i.e. crime, littering, noise etc.) and I do not see how they can be convinced that is their social responsibilty to do so.

 

LOL! This is ridiculous! To think something like this will ever work out is laughable.

 

To be fair I probably wouldn't find it funny if I lived there

 

Had it in the Uk for years 35% of any new development has to be "affordable" which is not that affordable but regardless you don't want it in an expensive area. You either have to include it, have a second development to take the affordable stuff in the same area or pay the local council a supplement to build it themselves. Not cool, be afraid it is bad news.

This will never work. As RD mentioned.....white flight. They will just move to get away when the riff raff starts to move in.

 

 

Had it in the Uk for years 35% of any new development has to be "affordable" which is not that affordable but regardless you don't want it in an expensive area. You either have to include it, have a second development to take the affordable stuff in the same area or pay the local council a supplement to build it themselves. Not cool, be afraid it is bad news.

Had something similar in my country too, since the early 50s. Communists nationalized and repurposed lots of property in order to house more people. Results can still be seen today in many areas. Needless to say it failed miserably, turning some of the most beautiful pre war parts of the city into ghettos. Only recently local governments have started cleaning them up. How? They removed the people living there and started to restore the old city. It's awesome now

Trouble is all these types of experiments assume that human beings are generally good, responsible, caring and socially aware, they are not.

I have been in low skill manufacturing all my life so interact with many of the people these plans are aimed at, trust me they will not work and it is getting worse not better.

The statement above used to hurt me as I would try to help people when ever I could but I am afraid I have become jaded and now accept the truth.

I swear this is chapter straight out of Atlas Shrugged.

Unfortunately the truth is pretty ugly, and it offends our modern sensibilities, but no matter how much we want to deny it, the truth is still the truth. You can't change it, you can only pretend it's not, and even that doesn't work for long until it backfires. Anyone who is even mildly objective can see it.

This will never work. As RD mentioned.....white flight. They will just move to get away when the riff raff starts to move in.

 

The concept of "riff raff" moving in is white fear, the motivation of white flight.

 

I don't understand what you mean by this? Right now it sounds prejudiced.

 

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Anyways, this is a talk of economic inclusion. The problem is, De Blasio is thinking affluent households and poor households are going to learn to live with each other positively over night.

 

It's not worth the $2 billion in additional spending.

 

 

 

 

 

I swear this is chapter straight out of Atlas Shrugged.

 

 

 

Society forgets Detroit was once the wealthiest city on the planet.

This will never work. As RD mentioned.....white flight. They will just move to get away when the riff raff starts to move in.

 

 

By that time it is too late. You won't be able to sell your house for crap. If you even think it is coming. Get out now. Would piss me off if I bought a 2 Mil house and then they build up projects right beside me. I buy a 2 mil house so that we can have better neighbors, schools, shopping, and everything else. I don't care if my neighbors are black or white. If they can afford to be my neighbors they will have a different mindset than people who want stuff given to them all the time.

 

Since they are used to getting stuff all the time, they will just take my bike hanging in the garage, or my groceries by the front door. Why work when you can get things for free.

By that time it is too late. You won't be able to sell your house for crap. If you even think it is coming. Get out now. Would piss me off if I bought a 2 Mil house and then they build up projects right beside me. I buy a 2 mil house so that we can have better neighbors, schools, shopping, and everything else. I don't care if my neighbors are black or white. If they can afford to be my neighbors they will have a different mindset than people who want stuff given to them all the time.

 

Since they are used to getting stuff all the time, they will just take my bike hanging in the garage, or my groceries by the front door. Why work when you can get things for free.

Right on! I WORKED hard all my life so my family would not have to live next to welfare collecting,lazy drug using,non working shitbags who think the world owes them a favor.To move them in means property values in the toilet, crime, drugs and everything else that goes with their lifestyle.Its not being biased....ITS A FACT deal with it!

The concept of "riff raff" moving in is white fear, the motivation of white flight.

 

I don't understand what you mean by this? Right now it sounds prejudiced.

 

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Anyways, this is a talk of economic inclusion. The problem is, De Blasio is thinking affluent households and poor households are going to learn to live with each other positively over night.

 

It's not worth the $2 billion in additional spending.

 

There was no mention in that comment about skin color. Fact is low income housing has more crime. Those are just statistics. No matter who lives there.