Minister Of Defense, Canada - Aliens

I think it depends on the religious person. If extraterrestrial life exists, it undermines the concept of God creating humans via Adam and Eve and Eve eating the apple and thus Jesus having to die on the cross to save us and all of that.

 

No...it doesn't... One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.... At least not to any religious person I've ever met and spoken with... Who told you that? The religious view the bible as a book written for HUMANs. Here... On earth... It's a story of a history of a people (the Jews and ultimately their Christian descendants) with lessons on how THEY are to live THEIR lives... It's not an all encompassing blueprint for the Universe, nor would many who believe in God fall under the "if he didn't tell us about it when we were primitive rockhumpers, it can't be true" school of thought with which others dismiss them.. But, if you really want to go there, the bible specifically mentions ALL sorts of non-human sentient beings...

 

The only people I ever see make this argument are the non-religious.... It's a straw man...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I do believe there is "life" out there but in a human form that has travelled to earth and is among us...nope. Area 51 is not the only area. The resident population blew that myth into what it is today and the government was fine with letting people think what they wanted. I would love for it to be true, I mean like the general theme of Prometheus and traveling to an alien world and find life is mind blowing but it's just not possible.

Say there is some physics bending capability of dark matter, that would allow time travel or faster than the speed of light travel, that doesn't mean the ship or aliens could withstand it. For any new possibility that is raised there will be new limitations.

No...it doesn't... One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.... At least not to any religious person I've ever met and spoken with... Who told you that? The religious view the bible as a book written for HUMANs. Here... On earth... It's a story of a history of a people (the Jews and ultimately their Christian descendants) with lessons on how THEY are to live THEIR lives... It's not an all encompassing blueprint for the Universe, nor would many who believe in God fall under the "if he didn't tell us about it when we were primitive rockhumpers, it can't be true" school of thought with which others dismiss them.. But, if you really want to go there, the bible specifically mentions ALL sorts of non-human sentient beings...

 

The only people I ever see make this argument are the non-religious.... It's a straw man...

 

What other sentient beings does the Bible make mention of?

The church and therefor the belief and worship of god has most definitely changed throughout the ages.

 

Some very interesting reads

 

 

http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0802629.htm

 

 

http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1657.htm

Also...

 

I call for a ban of multiple members of this thread. Too many walls of text!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Agree on some and disagree on some others. I think some have mentioned the following, but for example, I think this guy makes way too many assumptions:

 

1) He is assuming all of this about how impossible it all would be going by modern humans, with current human intelligence, with current human technology, with current human understanding of physics.

 

- What if our understanding of physics is wrong in certain ways?

 

- We don't know what dark matter is. We just mathematically know that it's there or else our theory of gravity is wrong.

 

- We have multiple theories for describing different aspects of the universe because not all the theories work as one unified theory.

 

So how can we be so certain that there is no fast-than-light travel? Maybe it could be done as mentioned by wormholes or whatnot. Technologically impossible? How do we know? Give another couple of hundred years of scientific and technological development and we might be able to develop technology that could do it.

 

2) What if you have an intelligence that is evolved to a higher level than current humans?

 

3) A mistake I think he makes in talking about how to search for life in the galaxy is that, you don't have to search all over. If you are looking for intelligent life, then you'll probably need to find an Earth-like planet. And Earth-like planets can only exist in a specific area of a galaxy like ours. Near the interior part of the galaxy, for example, the radiation is too great. So you search the areas where the radiation is tolerable. And then you look for stars and look at distances from the stars that would be appropriate for an Earth-like planet. Granted, this still would mean loads of numbers of possible stars, but I mean you don't just have to go everywhere

 

4) What makes him think that the alien life form couldn't perhaps send thousands of robots to do the exploring? They wouldn't necessarily need to send themselves.

 

5) No one can be 100% certain that intelligent life has existed. Intelligent life is one form of life and one that took a lot of time to develop. Lots of animals have intelligence, just at differing levels.

 

To find an intelligent life form capable of space travel would mean it would have to be a tool-making life form just like humans. And just because it is as intelligent as a human doesn't mean it would develop technology. Humans developed the scientific method that led to the industrial revolution a good deal because of Christianity and the peculiar way Christians viewed the cosmos and God. So the aliens would probably need something similar to develop formal science.

 

And it would have similarly likely had to develop the economics (because the laws of economics regarding supply and demand will remain the same regardless of how the life form is, even if they behave like ants), institutions, processes, etc...to develop sophisticated science and engineering and hence technology to then facilitate being able to travel through space.

 

I think there are intelligent life forms in the universe and perhaps our galaxy in the form of a animals with intelligence, like the equivalents of wolves, killer whales, etc...but for there to be civilizations would mean the equivalent of tool-making primates. They might be mammalian, reptilian, insect-like, or something altogether different, but they would have to have a humanoid form to be able to construct and use tools. They would also have to have a brain powerful enough for advanced thought.

 

Not too simple to get your thoughts out in a small phrase is it sir...

 

Roman as per his request... Ban hammer!

 

Words

 

WARNING: WALL OF TEXT. It's hard to have an "educated" discussion without it so feel free to not read.

 

The video is interesting but, even as you admit, it is in a highly militarized airspace. So yes, we can safely assume it isn't a civilian aircraft. But what does happen over the skies of Israel? Oh...rockets, mortars, military aircraft, etc. That video could very much be a rocket fired from Gaza and an Israeli defensive weapon (Iron Dome/Patriot/etc) going up to intercept it (I noticed there were flashes before the UFO rockets vertically so I assume some sort of ADA). Am I an expert on this? No. But I am also not uninformed or unfamiliar on the subject of military weapons systems. And yes, I agree my explanation of the video is unlikely and I don't even think what I wrote matches what the video depicted BUT that video doesn't prove "aliens" either.

 

Where do lot's of UFO sightings happen? They seem to happen near airports.

 

Or my favorite: Las Vegas, NV/Roswell NM...the first of which is next to.Nellis AFB. Both of which are close to the home of the largest piece of military radar testing and weapons ranges/airspace (the Nevada Test and Training Range/NTTR). There is A LOT of stuff that gets tested there.

 

Can I explain what the lights are in the top video? No. Do I find it highly coincidental that it is happening at one of the premier testing ranges in the military? Yes.

 

The RQ-190 was flying out of Nellis for several years before it was publicly acknowledged (thanks Iran).

The F-117 was flying for a decade before it was publicly released (Have Blue).

The SR-71/YF-12/A-12 was flying for years before it was publicly released.

Hell, there are pictures of U-2s and Blackbirds on the ramp at Groom Lake before it became "Area-51."

 

As a military pilot with 2K+ plus hours (including several Red Flags at Nellis AFB/NTTR), I have seen some weird shit with my own eyes. Have I ever once concluded it was a space ship? No.

 

Rewind 50 years ago and pilots were CERTAIN the effect of St Elmo's Fire was them getting transported through time and space over the Bermuda Triangle.

 

Rewind 30 years ago and people were certain that the flying triangles in and around Nevada were space ships because "triangles can't fly therefore can't be Earthly/Human."

 

I figure, DARPA and whatever black agencies are testing stuff in secret are 20 years ahead of everyone else. Why is it hard to fathom that the technology they might have might include rapidly changing courses and altitudes with the ability to hover?

 

Discuss.

WARNING: WALL OF TEXT. It's hard to have an "educated" discussion without it so feel free to not read.

 

The video is interesting but, even as you admit, it is in a highly militarized airspace. So yes, we can safely assume it isn't a civilian aircraft. But what does happen over the skies of Israel? Oh...rockets, mortars, military aircraft, etc. That video could very much be a rocket fired from Gaza and an Israeli defensive weapon (Iron Dome/Patriot/etc) going up to intercept it (I noticed there were flashes before the UFO rockets vertically so I assume some sort of ADA). Am I an expert on this? No. But I am also not uninformed or unfamiliar on the subject of military weapons systems. And yes, I agree my explanation of the video is unlikely and I don't even think what I wrote matches what the video depicted BUT that video doesn't prove "aliens" either.

 

Where do lot's of UFO sightings happen? They seem to happen near airports.

 

Or my favorite: Las Vegas, NV/Roswell NM...the first of which is next to.Nellis AFB. Both of which are close to the home of the largest piece of military radar testing and weapons ranges/airspace (the Nevada Test and Training Range/NTTR). There is A LOT of stuff that gets tested there.

 

Can I explain what the lights are in the top video? No. Do I find it highly coincidental that it is happening at one of the premier testing ranges in the military? Yes.

 

The RQ-190 was flying out of Nellis for several years before it was publicly acknowledged (thanks Iran).

The F-117 was flying for a decade before it was publicly released (Have Blue).

The SR-71/YF-12/A-12 was flying for years before it was publicly released.

Hell, there are pictures of U-2s and Blackbirds on the ramp at Groom Lake before it became "Area-51."

 

As a military pilot with 2K+ plus hours (including several Red Flags at Nellis AFB/NTTR), I have seen some weird shit with my own eyes. Have I ever once concluded it was a space ship? No.

 

Rewind 50 years ago and pilots were CERTAIN the effect of St Elmo's Fire was them getting transported through time and space over the Bermuda Triangle.

 

Rewind 30 years ago and people were certain that the flying triangles in and around Nevada were space ships because "triangles can't fly therefore can't be Earthly/Human."

 

I figure, DARPA and whatever black agencies are testing stuff in secret are 20 years ahead of everyone else. Why is it hard to fathom that the technology they might have might include rapidly changing courses and altitudes with the ability to hover?

 

Discuss.

 

 

Few things kinda went past your head on some key points I tried to make. Lol. Allow me to explain...

 

I quoted Wheels as a innocent joke as he said peeps need to get banned for the length of posts than he adds his own. It was funny and I was kidding.

 

 

 

Are you familiar with Jerusalem and its holy and sacred religious centers? Jerusalem is sacred to all three monotheistic religions: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. In history, no other city has been beloved and fought over as Jerusalem has.

 

For this reason it is extremely opposite of what you said and I guess what you thought I said... "The video is interesting but, even as you admit, it is in a highly militarized airspace."

 

Really confused as to how you would have mistaken this popular and well known city and center for, as you put it...

 

"Can I explain what the lights are in the top video? No. Do I find it highly coincidental that it is happening at one of the premier testing ranges in the military? Yes."

 

This region of Jerusalem is the most protected and has a very high no fly zone security measure for the obvious reasons I just mentioned...

 

 

When you gave your hypothesis of what you say :

 

"That video could very much be a rocket fired from Gaza and an Israeli defensive weapon (Iron Dome/Patriot/etc) going up to intercept it (I noticed there were flashes before the UFO rockets vertically so I assume some sort of ADA)."

 

It makes me believe you might have not watched the same video. The UFO "unidentified flying object" must have been hovering there for a extended period of time for many people to grab camera's and record it. Even into the recording you can see that it is clearly hovering and stationary above the Temple Mount. Than it slowly and gradually lowers to right above it. Stays there for a little over 20 seconds, again I remind you, hovering and stationary, before letting off a huge beam of light than accelerating straight up in the sky faster than the speed of any object that any military to this day posses and has the ability to do so from a stationary and hovering position.

 

Rocket being fired is too easy to poke and comment on by watching this same video again...

 

 

 

Lets entertain the fact that in some crazy way that the US Military, the most advanced on the planet, has the ability to do this kind of aircraft maneuvering...

 

There are many reasons I can think of why it doesn't posses this kind of advanced technological ability. And if it did I can assure you, it would not be using it above one of the most holy and sacred religious establishments of man kind instead of an empty desert base where they usually test their secret weapons and/or crafts as you have mentioned.

Not too simple to get your thoughts out in a small phrase is it sir...

 

Roman as per his request... Ban hammer!

 

:lol2::) Yes I was joking with that demand.

:lol2::) Yes I was joking with that demand.

 

Lol I figured as much which is why I had to comment as well with the other comment being it is hard to not write an essay when discussing such a skeptical issue amongst peers on a public forum.

 

Was just about to read your post.

The members of this forum never cease to amaze me, there is virtually no subject that's been brought up that our members can't very eloquently handle! Simply awesome.

 

As for the aliens IMO based on the size of our universe we would be mad to think we are alone, it's certainly fascinating to see all the pro and against arguments, my wife enjoys watching Ancient Aliens and I watched few episodes myself, VERY interesting show I am really enjoying it, quite eye opening.

Few things kinda went past your head on some key points I tried to make. Lol. Allow me to explain...

 

I quoted Wheels as a innocent joke as he said peeps need to get banned for the length of posts than he adds his own. It was funny and I was kidding.

 

 

 

Are you familiar with Jerusalem and its holy and sacred religious centers? Jerusalem is sacred to all three monotheistic religions: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. In history, no other city has been beloved and fought over as Jerusalem has.

 

For this reason it is extremely opposite of what you said and I guess what you thought I said... "The video is interesting but, even as you admit, it is in a highly militarized airspace."

 

Really confused as to how you would have mistaken this popular and well known city and center for, as you put it...

 

"Can I explain what the lights are in the top video? No. Do I find it highly coincidental that it is happening at one of the premier testing ranges in the military? Yes."

 

This region of Jerusalem is the most protected and has a very high no fly zone security measure for the obvious reasons I just mentioned...

 

 

When you gave your hypothesis of what you say :

 

"That video could very much be a rocket fired from Gaza and an Israeli defensive weapon (Iron Dome/Patriot/etc) going up to intercept it (I noticed there were flashes before the UFO rockets vertically so I assume some sort of ADA)."

 

It makes me believe you might have not watched the same video. The UFO "unidentified flying object" must have been hovering there for a extended period of time for many people to grab camera's and record it. Even into the recording you can see that it is clearly hovering and stationary above the Temple Mount. Than it slowly and gradually lowers to right above it. Stays there for a little over 20 seconds, again I remind you, hovering and stationary, before letting off a huge beam of light than accelerating straight up in the sky faster than the speed of any object that any military to this day posses and has the ability to do so from a stationary and hovering position.

 

Rocket being fired is too easy to poke and comment on by watching this same video again...

 

 

 

Lets entertain the fact that in some crazy way that the US Military, the most advanced on the planet, has the ability to do this kind of aircraft maneuvering...

 

There are many reasons I can think of why it doesn't posses this kind of advanced technological ability. And if it did I can assure you, it would not be using it above one of the most holy and sacred religious establishments of man kind instead of an empty desert base where they usually test their secret weapons and/or crafts as you have mentioned.

 

 

I'm beginning to think English is not your first language, because, as some others have pointed out, you seem to express yourself in ways that can be considered rude... But I don't think that's your intent... You also took two separate things he was talking about, in two separate paragraphs, the Israel video, and the Nellis test range in Nevada and combined then Into a single sentence... I'm hoping it's a language thing...

 

 

As for "hovering" objects... "Hovering" can be caused by two separate things. 1. An object can actually hover in a fixed point in space. Like a helicopter does. Or a Harrier jump jet. This is somewhat rare in avionics but it's far from unusual... It's also on the front lines of military aircraft R&D because VTOL eliminates the need for long runways or expensive aircraft carriers, which often aren't available when/where you need them. If you haven't seen the F22 raptor perform in an air show, you need to... It absolutely defies what we thought was physically possible just a few years ago... I saw it last month at thunder over Louisville... It hovers, flies forward, flies BACKWARDS, flies straight up... None of it is possible, but I saw it with my own eyes... And it's twenty year old technology... After you watch an F22 put through its paces, you'll realize, absolutely nothing is aeronautically impossible anymore.

 

2. "Hovering" can also be caused by an optical illusion... When an object that is not actually hovering is flying directly at or away from the eyeline of the observer... This, and other optical illusions (objects in the sky often appear to be gaining or losing altitude when they are not, objects appearing larger or smaller than they are because the viewer can't judge their distance in space, objects changing speed abruptly, when all they are doing is changing course relative to the observer etc... ) explain the vast majority of "it's defying physics!" Videos and observations. When the eye does not have other known objects in space for reference, it gets "confused" and the brain fills in the blanks...

 

There is nothing in that video that is impossible to explain with shit we have here on earth...

 

 

As I tried to point out earlier... A lot of famous UFO sightings have gone on to be very explainable as technologies are released, yet for some reason the eyewitnesses seem to maintain that what we now can identify, is still unidentifiable to them, and therefore obviously from beta reticule.

 

Art Bell famously began his radio show (which has single handedly been responsible for the explosion in paranormal entertainment) one night because he saw a very large, triangle shaped object slowly hovering over his vehicle (near the Nellis test range stole it was talking about).... He concluded it had to be extraterrestrial in origin... Flash forward thirty years... It's now a fairly open secret what that object was and who built it... And it wasn't Martians... Lockheed 'Martins', maybe... But not Martians.

 

 

I too once saw a UFO. In Arizona when I was in college... A large saucer shaped object was "hovering" in the sky a few miles in front of me as I drove down Speedway blvd.. I was befuddled at what it was... Then it changed course and rapidly (relatively) accelerated... But that's when it ceased being a UFO. As it's wings tipped for a moment and I could catch a glimpse of its oblique profile, it was quite obviously a B2 taking off or landing at Davis Mothan AFB, (which was pretty fcuking cool btw). Once it's turn was complete it looked like a saucer again...

 

 

Had I not known what a B2 was (my dad was working for Northrop while the program was under way and the US announced we had it a few years earlier so that was a pretty big deal to us...) even seeing that profile wouldn't have explained what it was... It would have still looked like something out of this world...

What other sentient beings does the Bible make mention of?

 

 

Seriously? God... The devil... Angels.. (Which there are about a dozen different species mentioned,:seraphim, cherubim orphanim, etc etc etc) . Demons.. Spirits... Nephalim... The AntiChrist... Daniel's beasts... the horsemen of the apocalypse... Do I have to keep going? They're all talked about in anthropomorphic terms in that they think, have desires or goals, yet, they clearly aren't of this world... Some are assumed to be metaphors (the entire bible is written in terms of metaphors, including the creation text in genesis, but critics try to ignore this when it's convenient: "you said six days! Haha!" Yeah... And methuselah lived 900 years... It's all metaphor, jerkoff!) but others are clearly represented as actual otherworld entities and non terrestrial beings... So... The revelation that non terrestrial beings are real would undermine the bible? Or does it reinforce it?

Seriously? God... The devil... Angels.. (Which there are about a dozen different species mentioned,:seraphim, cherubim orphanim, etc etc etc) . Demons.. Spirits... Nephalim... The AntiChrist... Daniel's beasts... the horsemen of the apocalypse... Do I have to keep going? They're all talked about in anthropomorphic terms in that they think, have desires or goals, yet, they clearly aren't of this world... Some are assumed to be metaphors (the entire bible is written in terms of metaphors, including the creation text in genesis, but critics try to ignore this when it's convenient: "you said six days! Haha!" Yeah... And methuselah lived 900 years... It's all metaphor, jerkoff!) but others are clearly represented as actual otherworld entities and non terrestrial beings... So... The revelation that non terrestrial beings are real would undermine the bible? Or does it reinforce it?

 

I see. I don't think God counts though, but the other entities it created, I see what you mean.

I see. I don't think God counts though, but the other entities it created, I see what you mean.

 

Why doesn't God count??? One of the theories regarding the origins of life on earth gaining popularity among atheists is that "aliens seeded the earth". No.. Ridley Scott didn't originate that... It's a theory that the likes of Richard Dawkins have been using as a retort to the question of "how do you explain how life springs from an otherwise sterile environment," for a very long time... See, to radical atheists like Dawkins, it doesn't matter how it happened, as long as whatever we do, we don't call it "God".

 

But.... If Aliens did in fact create life on earth, never minding the question of what created them, or what was in the universe before that first living cell that Dawkins would say they evolved from.... If aliens "seeded" earth and created life here, wouldn't they very much meet the definition of "God"? And isn't it all really about two competing "religions" and not science at all? (The religious versus the religion of hating the religious).

 

 

Because, you know, the idea of a 'man' who lives in "the heavens" (space) who is far advanced of humanity, who created life on earth, who has the ability to visit us and watch us without our knowledge is a ridiculous fairy tale.... Unless of course it's Martians. Then we're cool with it.

Words

 

My bad, I connected the video with the NTTR. That was incorrect on my part. But, my point is the video is still taking place in a military controlled airspace (aka: the airspace over Israel). And I think it is very short sighted to assume Israel is leaps and bounds behind the US in military technology. Do they have the money the US throws around? No. But are they very very smart and clever? Yes. The US even co-developed Iron Dome with them for a reason and we treat them as a peer during all military exercises, which does not hold true to many other militaries we work with.

 

I definitely did watch the same video (more than once) and I went on to say what I wrote wasn't a very good explanation (it being a military rocket, etc) but saying the object in that video was a space alien is also a very poor explanation.

 

The fact of the matter is neither of us can explain it. I default to a military explanation probably because I am a military aviator and I look at the location of the video and it also screams military to me. You look at the video and see space aliens because...well that's what you want to see. I am sure a geologist could explain it with swamp gasses and a meteorologist could claim it was moon light bouncing off a weather balloon or whatever, I don't know.

 

The fact is we can not explain it. So at the end of the day we will part ways with you still concluding it's an Alien and me concluding that I have no idea what it is but I'd guess military (and that what ever it is...I want to fly it).

Why doesn't God count???

 

Because to me "God" exists above and beyond the other beings of the universe. God is what would have created the universe, and hence ultimately, all of the beings in the universe. Also, the debate to me is about whether God created other such beings.

 

One of the theories regarding the origins of life on earth gaining popularity among atheists is that "aliens seeded the earth". No.. Ridley Scott didn't originate that... It's a theory that the likes of Richard Dawkins have been using as a retort to the question of "how do you explain how life springs from an otherwise sterile environment," for a very long time... See, to radical atheists like Dawkins, it doesn't matter how it happened, as long as whatever we do, we don't call it "God".

 

But.... If Aliens did in fact create life on earth, never minding the question of what created them, or what was in the universe before that first living cell that Dawkins would say they evolved from.... If aliens "seeded" earth and created life here, wouldn't they very much meet the definition of "God"? And isn't it all really about two competing "religions" and not science at all? (The religious versus the religion of hating the religious).

 

 

Because, you know, the idea of a 'man' who lives in "the heavens" (space) who is far advanced of humanity, who created life on earth, who has the ability to visit us and watch us without our knowledge is a ridiculous fairy tale.... Unless of course it's Martians. Then we're cool with it.

 

Such aliens if they created us could meet the definition of "God" I suppose, but when I think of "God" I am thinking of the Grand Creator, the ultimate creator of the universe. IMO the concept of a creator who lives in the heavens and has the ability to watch over us and all that isn't so much a fairytale in its description as just the individual religious descriptions that many take completely literally strikes many as a fairytale.

 

Regarding how the first cell began, well it isn't believed it was a completely sterile environment. The early Earth's oceans were churning with all sorts of chemicals that are needed for life to begin, and with the Moon orbiting so close at the time, there were a lot of chemical interactions occurring. Remember, what we call "life" is based on chemistry ultimately.

 

The very first "cell" would likely have been a self-replicating molecule. These aren't theoretical as we currently know of about four self-replicating molecules that exist. Said self-replicating molecules would have grown more and more complex over billions of years, eventually creating the very first cell. From there, after many more years, the very first multicellular organisms would have formed, leading eventually after many more years to the first fish. Fish lead to different types of fish, and as fish encountered shallower waters, over time, certain ones developed into amphibians. The amphibians as they came onto land over time developed into reptiles, and from reptiles came mammals and birds.

 

We know (and even Creationists) have acknowledged that evolution in certain forms does exist, because we have watched it occur. For example, with fruit flies, taking one species of fruit fly and evolving it into a different species of fruit fly over multiple generations, where the new species is not capable of producing off-spring with the original. Also a type of bacteria that eats nylon (a human-created material) has evolved.

 

IMO, there is no need for aliens to have seeded life on Earth, the early Earth had all the elements needed for life to begin.

 

use startpage.com (gives some level of privacy)

or you can google the following:

 

solar warden

tr-3b

die glocke

chronos

Because to me "God" exists above and beyond the other beings of the universe. God is what would have created the universe, and hence ultimately, all of the beings in the universe. Also, the debate to me is about whether God created other such beings.

ok... So... If these "aliens" that are supposedly visiting us actually exist, how do you know they didn't create the universe? You don't know who they are... You don't know where they come from... You don't know what they are... You can't even prove their existence, and you know nothing about them... But for some reason you've limited what they are?

Such aliens if they created us could meet the definition of "God" I suppose, but when I think of "God" I am thinking of the Grand Creator, the ultimate creator of the universe. IMO the concept of a creator who lives in the heavens and has the ability to watch over us and all that isn't so much a fairytale in its description as just the individual religious descriptions that many take completely literally strikes many as a fairytale.

 

Regarding how the first cell began, well it isn't believed it was a completely sterile environment. The early Earth's oceans were churning with all sorts of chemicals that are needed for life to begin, and with the Moon orbiting so close at the time, there were a lot of chemical interactions occurring. Remember, what we call "life" is based on chemistry ultimately.

 

 

 

The very first "cell" would likely have been a self-replicating molecule. These aren't theoretical as we currently know of about four self-replicating molecules that exist. Said self-replicating molecules would have grown more and more complex over billions of years, eventually creating the very first cell. From there, after many more years, the very first multicellular organisms would have formed, leading eventually after many more years to the first fish. Fish lead to different types of fish, and as fish encountered shallower waters, over time, certain ones developed into amphibians. The amphibians as they came onto land over time developed into reptiles, and from reptiles came mammals and birds.

 

 

We know (and even Creationists) have acknowledged that evolution in certain forms does exist, because we have watched it occur. For example, with fruit flies, taking one species of fruit fly and evolving it into a different species of fruit fly over multiple generations, where the new species is not capable of producing off-spring with the original. Also a type of bacteria that eats nylon (a human-created material) has evolved.

. Yeah... Even creationists acknowledge "evolution" because the process that Darwin gets circle jerked for, people had intentionally been doing with dogs and cats for four millennia before he got credit for it.. So the monks of St. Bernard pass were probably atheists... Congratulations Darwin... You just observed what every farmer has known forever...

 

IMO, there is no need for aliens to have seeded life on Earth, the early Earth had all the elements needed for life to begin.

 

And where did those elements come from?

ok... So... If these "aliens" that are supposedly visiting us actually exist, how do you know they didn't create the universe? You don't know who they are... You don't know where they come from... You don't know what they are... You can't even prove their existence, and you know nothing about them... But for some reason you've limited what they are? .

 

Hmm...hadn't thought of that. I wouldn't know if they had created the universe or not. I suppose trying to determine that would depend on certain things (like do they have to rely on technology or not, etc...?). BTW, I am not claiming aliens are visiting us myself. I have no idea regarding that.

 

Yeah... Even creationists acknowledge "evolution" because the process that Darwin gets circle jerked for, people had intentionally been doing with dogs and cats for four millennia before he got credit for it.. So the monks of St. Bernard monastery were probably atheists... Congratulations Darwin... You just observed what every farmer has known forever...

 

Well not quite. Humans haven't bred cats and dogs into different species (unless they have?). Different breeds of cat can reproduce with one another and different breeds of dog can reproduce with one another.

 

And where did those elements come from?

 

This is the difference though between believing in evolution and that a Creator created the universe versus believing that a Creator had to start life itself. Evolution, unto itself, doesn't at all disprove or go against the concept of a Creator. Life is based on chemistry, chemistry on physics, and physics on mathematics. The mathematical workings of the universe would have been written by the Creator, which then lead to the construction of the other things today.

 

The universe as far as we know and can tell began with the Big Bang (which doesn't claim that in the beginning there was nothing, rather just that it was all compressed and then expanded outwards very quickly. Who or what put it there is not addressed by the theory). At first there were simple elements. One could say these were created by the Creator. The heavier elements however did not yet exist. Scientists wondered for years how they came into being, until one scientist proposed maybe they are formed in the cores of stars. Today we know this to be the case. Really big stars, when they die and go supernova, fuse together the heavy elements like iron, gold, lead, etc...in their interiors, then blow it out into space. Eventually, dust and gas coalesced into forming our star and our solar system.

My bad, I connected the video with the NTTR. That was incorrect on my part. But, my point is the video is still taking place in a military controlled airspace (aka: the airspace over Israel). And I think it is very short sighted to assume Israel is leaps and bounds behind the US in military technology. Do they have the money the US throws around? No. But are they very very smart and clever? Yes. The US even co-developed Iron Dome with them for a reason and we treat them as a peer during all military exercises, which does not hold true to many other militaries we work with.

 

I definitely did watch the same video (more than once) and I went on to say what I wrote wasn't a very good explanation (it being a military rocket, etc) but saying the object in that video was a space alien is also a very poor explanation.

. There's nothing in that video that looks particularly otherworldly... The first thing I thought was "flare and Patriot missile" but you could also do it with a dji phantom and a bottle rocket....

 

The fact of the matter is neither of us can explain it. I default to a military explanation probably because I am a military aviator and I look at the location of the video and it also screams military to me. You look at the video and see space aliens because...well that's what you want to see. I am sure a geologist could explain it with swamp gasses and a meteorologist could claim it was moon light bouncing off a weather balloon or whatever, I don't know.

 

The fact is we can not explain it. So at the end of the day we will part ways with you still concluding it's an Alien and me concluding that I have no idea what it is but I'd guess military (and that what ever it is...I want to fly it).

 

 

Which brings us to another point.... If you wanted to fly over various portions of the earth without permission... Where would you do that? First... Would you EVER fly over any part of the United States? Youre a super advanced intellect... So you fly your shit over the most advanced military powers on the planet where you're most likely to get a SAM shoved up your ass? But maybe third world shitholes just aren't that interesting to your big brains... So you have to hit the U.S. to really stay interested.... So of course you would do your best to minimize the risk.... Yeah... Let's go near the military bases. That'll work...

 

"Oh... But they're so advanced... They're not afraid if us... Were just like bugs to them". Well... I think we can all agree, I'm a lot more fcuking advanced than a bug... But I don't fcuk with a beehive either...

 

For a super intellect, they sure are fcuking stupid...

. There's nothing in that video that looks particularly otherworldly... The first thing I thought was "flare and Patriot missile" but you could also do it with a dji phantom and a bottle rocket....

 

 

 

 

Which brings us to another point.... If you wanted to fly over various portions of the earth without permission... Where would you do that? First... Would you EVER fly over any part of the United States? Youre a super advanced intellect... So you fly your shit over the most advanced military powers on the planet where you're most likely to get a SAM shoved up your ass? But maybe third world shitholes just aren't that interesting to your big brains... So you have to hit the U.S. to really stay interested.... So of course you would do your best to minimize the risk.... Yeah... Let's go near the military bases. That'll work...

 

"Oh... But they're so advanced... They're not afraid if us... Were just like bugs to them". Well... I think we can all agree, I'm a lot more fcuking advanced than a bug... But I don't fcuk with a beehive either...

 

For a super intellect, they sure are fcuking stupid...

 

Maybe the aliens would have special technology where their spaceships can't be detected by our radar and so forth. IMO though to spy on humans, all the aliens need do is design some robots that look like insects to fly around and spy. From what I've read, the U.S. government is already researching this.

Hmm...hadn't thought of that. I wouldn't know if they had created the universe or not. I suppose trying to determine that would depend on certain things (like do they have to rely on technology or not, etc...?). BTW, I am not claiming aliens are visiting us myself. I have no idea regarding that.

 

 

 

Well not quite. Humans haven't bred cats and dogs into different species (unless they have?). Different breeds of cat can reproduce with one another and different breeds of dog can reproduce with one another.

. And that's the criticism of Darwinism... Darwin didn't OBSERVE different species evolving on Galapagos.. He observed inter species evolution... Specifically of landlocked birds... Mockingbirds on one island were better adapted to life on one island than similar birds on another island... And from that he jumps across species with no proof. If the evolutionary process takes place one small, rare mutation at the time, where are the billions of also rans? He predicts we will find the intermediate extinct species that are missing from the fossil record evidence, but, we haven't found them... In fact the fossil record seems to contradict Darwin in that it appears that entire classes of animals come and go rather spontaneously, but the bridge animals are missing...

 

This is the difference though between believing in evolution and that a Creator created the universe versus believing that a Creator had to start life itself. Evolution, unto itself, doesn't at all disprove or go against the concept of a Creator. Life is based on chemistry, chemistry on physics, and physics on mathematics. The mathematical workings of the universe would have been written by the Creator, which then lead to the construction of the other things today.

 

The universe as far as we know and can tell began with the Big Bang (which doesn't claim that in the beginning there was nothing, rather just that it was all compressed and then expanded outwards very quickly. Who or what put it there is not addressed by the theory). At first there were simple elements. One could say these were created by the Creator. The heavier elements however did not yet exist. Scientists wondered for years how they came into being, until one scientist proposed maybe they are formed in the cores of stars. Today we know this to be the case. Really big stars, when they die and go supernova, fuse together the heavy elements like iron, gold, lead, etc...in their interiors, then blow it out into space. Eventually, dust and gas coalesced into forming our star and our solar system.

 

To me, these blanks are why I'm agnostic on EVERYTHING. I'm not particularly religious...m the church pisses me off a lot... But, I also think science takes itself way too seriously. The scientific community "knows" a lot less than it thinks it does... But I do believe in something before me... What that is? I have no fcuking idea... But something kicked it all off...

Maybe the aliens would have special technology where their spaceships can't be detected by our radar and so forth. IMO though to spy on humans, all the aliens need do is design some robots that look like insects to fly around and spy. From what I've read, the U.S. government is already researching this.

 

Well then... They are so advanced, our governments can't observe them... That pretty much contradicts the original post.... That the government says we're being visited... Doesn't it?

I heard this story this morning. Now I know what a Raelian is. That must be why the aliens haven't actually come out of the closet. We haven't built them an embassy or appointed them an intergalactic ambassador yet. Makes perfect sense.

. And that's the criticism of Darwinism... Darwin didn't OBSERVE different species evolving on Galapagos.. He observed inter species evolution... Specifically of landlocked birds... Mockingbirds on one island were better adapted to life on one island than similar birds on another island... And from that he jumps across species with no proof. If the evolutionary process takes place one small, rare mutation at the time, where are the billions of also rans? He predicts we will find the intermediate extinct species that are missing from the fossil record evidence, but, we haven't found them... In fact the fossil record seems to contradict Darwin in that it appears that entire classes of animals come and go rather spontaneously, but the bridge animals are missing...

 

Not sure what you mean about the also-rans? Most died off and are gone. There are thousands of fossils that have been found, but fossilization is a very rare process, so we won't find fossils on every life form that has ever lived. Hence many of the missing bridge life forms.

 

To me, these blanks are why I'm agnostic on EVERYTHING. I'm not particularly religious...m the church pisses me off a lot... But, I also think science takes itself way too seriously. The scientific community "knows" a lot less than it thinks it does... But I do believe in something before me... What that is? I have no fcuking idea... But something kicked it all off...

 

Well I think we have a pretty good idea of how the universe as we know it developed and how the Earth formed and all that. But yes scientists have a habit of taking themselves too seriously on things IMO. To me how the universe formed and the Earth within it formed and then life started, if accurate, only shows the incredible genius of the Creator. I mean not only did life form, but sentient intelligence from that life formed. If there are things like spirits, I would consider that science as well, just a form of it beyond our understanding right now.