I knew it would come back

I don't want to re-opend an old thread to make the point and thereby stirring hypocrisy. But those in the know would understand what I am saying.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-32251994

 

Vinyl records are making a huge come back; sales are going up, way up. So much so that a company in the UK had launched a top vinyl album chart. Of all places --- guess where our most vocal anti-vinyl member is from? I'll concur that vinyl is still a very niche market but it goes to show that there are enough people out there --- plenty being young individuals --- who see it as more than just a hip/trendy thing as they realizes the great sound quality that vinyl offers.

I don't want to re-opend an old thread to make the point and thereby stirring hypocrisy. But those in the know would understand what I am saying.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-32251994

 

Vinyl records are making a huge come back; sales are going up, way up. So much so that a company in the UK had launched a top vinyl album chart. Of all places --- guess where our most vocal anti-vinyl member is from? I'll concur that vinyl is still a very niche market but it goes to show that there are enough people out there --- plenty being young individuals --- who see it as more than just a hip/trendy thing as they realizes the great sound quality that vinyl offers.

 

My understanding is that vinyl is like the incandescent light bulb of the music world. Like how the incandescent offers the most true, pure light, vinyl offers much more pure sound. But unlike the incandescent, vinyls aren't being outlawed. So what is this thread you speak of? Did this subject stir up a fight?

I actually bought one the other day, from a newer (less known), artist. I was thrilled when I saw that he had them on his site!

I don't want to re-opend an old thread to make the point and thereby stirring hypocrisy. But those in the know would understand what I am saying.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-32251994

 

Vinyl records are making a huge come back; sales are going up, way up. So much so that a company in the UK had launched a top vinyl album chart. Of all places --- guess where our most vocal anti-vinyl member is from? I'll concur that vinyl is still a very niche market but it goes to show that there are enough people out there --- plenty being young individuals --- who see it as more than just a hip/trendy thing as they realizes the great sound quality that vinyl offers.

 

It's nice that there's a bit of a resurgence.

 

We all know it will never be like the '70s and '80s again, but at least the fact that there can be some vinyl releases is a good thing. There was a period of time in the '90s and '00s where no LPs were released for major artists.

 

If anything sucks, is that it is harder to get brand new vinyl from artists these days if you're not totally up on the release from the beginning. You're then relegated to ebay and specialty LP sites to buy your vinyl, often used.

 

And like you say, I hope the "I love the big art work!" aspect of LP collecting is pushed down the list of top priorities -- yes it's cool when you're in the store admiring 12" x 12" artwork, but if the sound quality is only 5-10% better and you just paid $35 for it, that part gets old.

 

$4 LP found randomly in the bin that sounds great is what it's all about.

 

My understanding is that vinyl is like the incandescent light bulb of the music world. Like how the incandescent offers the most true, pure light, vinyl offers much more pure sound. But unlike the incandescent, vinyls aren't being outlawed. So what is this thread you speak of? Did this subject stir up a fight?

 

http://www.lambopower.com/forum/index.php?...hile&st=160

 

The whole digital/analog debate is one of the most passionate arguments you will find online, probably more intense than anything I've seen in the car world. It's a battle of the theoretical ideal vs. perceived reality, and since musical listening really has no black and white quantitative measures that apply like they would in racing, it becomes extremely difficult to make people budge from their positions. You aren't "racing" one system against another, it would be like comparing Lewis Hamilton to Fernando Alonso based on their telemetry only and not lap times.

 

The engineering is brought up to display scientific evidence or even "proof" of digital superiority, while the analog guys can report on the multi-million dollar market for analog gear being sold in the modern day. Same thing with solid state transistor amplifiers vs. vacuum tube amplifiers.

 

 

 

 

Very cool!

 

I've been buying and collecting vinyl for years now and always try to buy new albums on vinyl from my favorite artists if they offer them considering no one pays for cd's anymore.

My buddy called me on the Record store day to inform me there is indeed such a thing. He says its a pain in the ass to get records now, the price of vinyl had shot way up, some of the vinyls he's looking at are $60 a pop, and people aren't negotiating!

I've become a fan of picking up 12" singles.

 

Cheaper, safer choice and you'll usually get more bass and dynamics because the grooves can be wider for short duration.

 

 

I've become a fan of picking up 12" singles.

 

Cheaper, safer choice and you'll usually get more bass and dynamics because the grooves can be wider for short duration.

 

 

A-ha! So there are some members here who are into vinyl as well.

 

Vinyls aren't really hard to find but they are getting $$. The worst part is one needs to pamper them and, if in the wrong hands, one can permanently damage it before its first note is being played. Although, to be fair, the best prints from the best labels have always been $$$ --- just like all of the esoteric things in the world. I highly doubt that vinyl would find its way back into mainstream again. So it would remain a niche front end gear in the audio world. Unfortunately, it would fit the "you gotta pay to play" cliche. And the state-of-the-art/top-of-the-line vinyl playback system involves serious $$$$. But it is great to see that vinyl is coming back!

 

I wonder if this still holds: there was a time for serious vinyl audiophile that when one finds a greatly recorded LP, one would buy at least four of that same album --- 1 for playback, 1 for spare in case the 1st one had worn out or was accidentally damaged, 1 remains sealed for the personal collection and the 4th/last one also remains sealed but is destined for sale down the road at a premium to at least cover the original costs on all 4.

You guys did hear of Spotify? Just checking!

 

I kid, I kid

 

I love spotify!

 

I also love when a track "samples" some fizz and crackle.

My concern with vinyl is the delivery as in mail order.

But what is magic about vinyl is that it holds your attention, you take your time, you take in the sounds. It is not disposable time, it is time with intent to do one thing, take in the music.

I love spotify!

 

I also love when a track "samples" some fizz and crackle.

My concern with vinyl is the delivery as in mail order.

But what is magic about vinyl is that it holds your attention, you take your time, you take in the sounds. It is not disposable time, it is time with intent to do one thing, take in the music.

 

Another good point I've heard is that 1. you have to listen through the whole album, so you go on a journey as the artist intended. And that you have to get up from your chair every hour or so if you work from home.

With a million new tracks coming out every week vinyl is also a great way to differentiate yourself as an artist

 

 

 

 

 

I love spotify!

 

I also love when a track "samples" some fizz and crackle.

My concern with vinyl is the delivery as in mail order.

But what is magic about vinyl is that it holds your attention, you take your time, you take in the sounds. It is not disposable time, it is time with intent to do one thing, take in the music.

Another good point I've heard is that 1. you have to listen through the whole album, so you go on a journey as the artist intended. And that you have to get up from your chair every hour or so if you work from home.

 

I am way too lazy for that, our attention span isn't what it used to be, technology accelerates our lives at much faster pace, our consumption has become more volume than quality driven but it is very good to know that classic trends return and history doesn't get lost, vinyl will always bring back nostalgia and I am grateful it's being preserved because there are certain things which we should never lose.

 

You guys did hear of Spotify? Just checking!

 

I kid, I kid

 

:lol2:

 

Nothing wrong with Spotify. Both can coexist quite happily.

 

But just a FYI, you do realize that B&O was one of the pioneers of the modern linear-tracking tonearm. It was way before my time but it must have been super cool to own one back then. Google Beogram 4000.

 

... it is very good to know that classic trends return and history doesn't get lost, vinyl will always bring back nostalgia and I am grateful it's being preserved because there are certain things which we should never lose.

 

There is more than history and nostalgia. It's also superior in sound quality albeit at the expense of painstaking set up. Definitely not for the novice and it is $$$. Many mistakes can be made --- with devastating consequences --- before a single music note can come out. (Disclaimer: not trying to instigate the analogue vs. digital debate all over again but simply pointing out the facts.)

 

But just a FYI, you do realize that B&O was one of the pioneers of the modern linear-tracking tonearm. It was way before my time but it must have been super cool to own one back then. Google Beogram 4000.

That brings back memories; my parents owned one of those.

 

I'll never forget the blue Creeping Death LP by Metallica.

As a (professional) DJ having played at some of the best sounding clubs in the world, I can attest to the fact that when club PAs are set up for vinyl, the sound is indeed warmer, the bass detail is greater, etc.

 

However, there is a caveat here, and it's a big one: the upside of marginally better sound quality vs the pain-in-the-ass factor of the format itself isn't worth the opportunity cost. At home, unless you have tens of thousands of dollars to spend on a hi-fi, the differences will almost always be indiscernible. And on the other side of that, there are maybe under ten clubs in the world that are properly set up in a way that a difference can be heard/felt.

 

I'm a vinyl guy for life (I own almost 10,000 records) and will ALWAYS play vinyl in clubs when I can, but the dick swinging on the side of vinyl vs digital is one perpetuated more through romanticism and nostalgia than pragmatism.

As a (professional) DJ having played at some of the best sounding clubs in the world, I can attest to the fact that when club PAs are set up for vinyl, the sound is indeed warmer, the bass detail is greater, etc. However, there is a caveat here, and it's a big one: the upside of marginally better sound quality vs the pain-in-the-ass factor of the format itself isn't worth the opportunity cost. At home, unless you have tens of thousands of dollars to spend on a hi-fi, the differences will almost always be indiscernible. And on the other side of that, there are maybe under ten clubs in the world that are properly set up in a way that a difference can be heard/felt. I'm a vinyl guy for life (I own almost 10,000 records) and will ALWAYS play vinyl in clubs when I can, but the dick swinging on the side of vinyl vs digital is one perpetuated more through romanticism and nostalgia than pragmatism.

 

 

 

 

Just like the Manual vs PDK discussion !!!

Just like the Manual vs PDK discussion !!!

 

The similarities are uncanny.

However, there is a caveat here, and it's a big one: the upside of marginally better sound quality vs the pain-in-the-ass factor of the format itself isn't worth the opportunity cost. At home, unless you have tens of thousands of dollars to spend on a hi-fi, the differences will almost always be indiscernible. And on the other side of that, there are maybe under ten clubs in the world that are properly set up in a way that a difference can be heard/felt.

 

I'm a vinyl guy for life (I own almost 10,000 records) and will ALWAYS play vinyl in clubs when I can, but the dick swinging on the side of vinyl vs digital is one perpetuated more through romanticism and nostalgia than pragmatism.

 

 

 

Well, get your LP collection up to 10k then.

 

From a professional perspective, of course pragmatism should be ahead of romanticism and nostalgia; it's only fair. But there is more than just being romantic and nostalgic. When one pursues the absolute sound, vinyl still has its place and I trust that you would concur citing your collection and preference. I have said it a few posts above and elsewhere that vinyl is not for the faint of hearts and it can get $$$ fairly quickly. I had also said a $1k digital setup will likely blow away a $1k vinyl setup and that likely applies all the way up to $3k. Beyond that, the gap narrows and above $20k, vinyl edges out but that's providing one knows how to set up a vinyl playback system. This compares pressing a button or two, casually dropping in a tiny disc (no TLC required) or plugging in a card/stick and pressing another button or two and all is set. The magnitude of user-friendliness for digital is simply non-comparable. Again, for the record, I am not anti-digital at all. The more choices the merrier so long as the sound is up to par. The irony is that a $100k vinyl playback system (and if one can afford that, one can also hire professional help for a proper setup so good sound is likely guaranteed) will blow a $150k digital playback system clear out of the water.

 

Agreed on the manual vs. PDK discussion.

Lambo Guy, it's not always this overwhelmingly dominant advantage in sound quality (vinyl vs digital).

 

You have the issue of gear and also recordings, especially in the modern day.

 

Compare 12" singles from the '80s to that of today and you will often see a dramatic difference.

 

Loudness wars have crept up on LPs as well as CDs.

 

Typically you will notice the LP advantage in terms of depth, presence, warmth....but not so much in a nightclub environment; I'd imagine headphones don't bring it out much either.

 

The hype behind LPs is often overstated by audiophiles. What that means is the idea that having 3000 records means 3000 examples of awesome; that's most often not the case.

 

However what is real are those special LPs that literally jump out at you and give you no opportunity to ignore them. They are that good, and the passion is justified. I, like VCR, will defend that position to the end of time.

 

I also think the perception of format distribution is also misinformed. I know a lot of guys who love vinyl, have deep pockets , etc but still do most of their listening in digital, even through .....wait for it......streaming.

 

The sound quality is there, the convenience is there and quite frankly in 2015 most of the music you want to hear is not on vinyl. Also, not every listening session need be that "deep" just like not every drive of a performance car need be 9 tenths on a track, heel and toe.

 

The romantic notion of "all analog all the time" is overrated in my mind and I say this as a huge fan of the medium. If you ever want to engage in a discussion about 45 vs 78 RPM LP or 1/4" vs 1/2" tape at 15 vs 30 IPS , I'd love to but rarely am I experiencing it.

 

The marriage of D + A is a wonderful one that has allowed many options for the enthusiast. The parallels between auto/manual transmissions are very fitting I would say.

VCR, I agree with all of your points for sure... In my profession I'm also somewhat "stuck" with the format in that some titles are just simply NOT available digitally, i.e. rare techno records from the 90s whose labels are now defunct and DAT tapes long destroyed. Yes I could rip them but then what would be the point ?

 

I just feel as though sometimes people are quick to judge with their hearts rather than their heads with these types of decisions. But yes, a $100K vinyl playback system would bring tears to my eyes in a way no digital ever could

 

I agree with you as well, Fellipe.

I have to wonder if there would be a large enough market for a new physical medium designed solely for Hi-Fi audio playback. Something that captures the essence of analogue sound but addresses the difficulties in set-up, handling, and maintenance of vinyl. The advances in nanotech in the past 10 years makes me believe that something could be created that has the sound of vinyl with the durability and ease of use of a CD or magnetic drive. Thoughts?

VCR, I agree with all of your points for sure... In my profession I'm also somewhat "stuck" with the format in that some titles are just simply NOT available digitally, i.e. rare techno records from the 90s whose labels are now defunct and DAT tapes long destroyed. Yes I could rip them but then what would be the point ?

 

I just feel as though sometimes people are quick to judge with their hearts rather than their heads with these types of decisions. But yes, a $100K vinyl playback system would bring tears to my eyes in a way no digital ever could

 

I agree with you as well, Fellipe.

 

 

And I agree with you Lambo Guy as well and, of course. with Fellippe. I understand where you are coming from.

For the record (pardon the pun ), I am not the type who thinks anything vinyl is great & pure. I think we would all concur that there are plenty of crappy sounding vinyl around. Even some of the not-so-bad ones; though sounding adequate and appropriate; are heavily "equalized" and thus being robbed from its true form. Your profession likely had come across this much more frequent than I did as a hobbyist. As mentioned earlier, I am more than willing to embrace any medium so long as it meets the criteria of sounding like the real thing. Vinyl/turntable stir my interest not because of the nostalgia; it's how they sound and the variety of ways of tweaking things here & there (i.e. VTA, azimuth, tracking force etc...) to improve the sound that attracted my interests. Cheers.

I have to wonder if there would be a large enough market for a new physical medium designed solely for Hi-Fi audio playback. Something that captures the essence of analogue sound but addresses the difficulties in set-up, handling, and maintenance of vinyl. The advances in nanotech in the past 10 years makes me believe that something could be created that has the sound of vinyl with the durability and ease of use of a CD or magnetic drive. Thoughts?

 

If it passes the hi-fi (or high-end hi-fi) criteria, chances are it would be embraced by the masses too so long as it is not cost-prohibitive.

 

Not exactly as what you are seeking but a couple of decades ago, something called Finial was invented. It was a turntable that played vinyl using laser instead of a cartridge. It actually worked but CD was being marketed as THE medium to have at that time. Finial ran out of funding very quickly. It made a few comebacks but no one really stepped up to fund Finial as it was conceptualized to be. Currently, someone in Japan invented a cartridge that works optically. Not sure how that works and haven't heard it yet so I can't comment too much on it. But prototype had been shown and played in shows so it may have potentials.