Brexit

Ameer, great post, I have a lot of time for you.

wow, so the people who didn't win, or those who don't support what was actually voted on only days ago are already whinging and trying to have their way when they were beaten fair and square?

 

this really is a world of entitlement. If you didn't win, you make do and move on.

 

Keep voting/suing/whining until you get the result you want...

Everything that I am reading shows that the UK imports much more from EU countries than it exports (somewhere between 30-50%). I understand that the EU needs to be strong handed in their negotiations to deter other countries from trying to leave, but isn't that going to have a negative impact on the economies of countries who rely on exporting goods to the UK? Shouldn't that give the UK a slight advantage regarding trade negotiations as they move forward, especially over the next two years where the EU sees the results of those loses?

 

As far as the rest of the world I would think the UK should be able to negotiate a deal similar to what was already in place. I know Obama made some thin threats before the vote took place, but we are already backtracking on those as we understand the importance of the U.K. Both politically and economically. I know many other non away countries are already drafting trade agreements with the U.K.

 

Forgive my ignorance, but can someone tell me what I am missing?

GOOD LUCK

Everything that I am reading shows that the UK imports much more from EU countries than it exports (somewhere between 30-50%). I understand that the EU needs to be strong handed in their negotiations to deter other countries from trying to leave, but isn't that going to have a negative impact on the economies of countries who rely on exporting goods to the UK? Shouldn't that give the UK a slight advantage regarding trade negotiations as they move forward, especially over the next two years where the EU sees the results of those loses?

 

As far as the rest of the world I would think the UK should be able to negotiate a deal similar to what was already in place. I know Obama made some thin threats before the vote took place, but we are already backtracking on those as we understand the importance of the U.K. Both politically and economically. I know many other non away countries are already drafting trade agreements with the U.K.

 

Forgive my ignorance, but can someone tell me what I am missing?

Economy isn't only about goods. The UK has the largest financial services industry in Europe, which relies on the access they have to the common market. Iirc financial services in the UK are as an industry, the largest contributor to the budget. Has anyone weighed in on how those will be affected? How many companies will downsize their operations in the UK and move to the continent? I bet it's more than just a few.

 

Do you think the EU will cut them any slack? They will not, as they have to make an example of them to show other countries thinking of leaving what it really means. And if they negotiate a deal similar to what was in place up until now, all they would do is loose control and voting rights over what goes on at an EU level and things will stay they same. They'd just loose the advantages and but still have all the perceived disadvantages.

They would still have to abide by the same standards and laws, this would not fix anything, immigration included. Free movement entails the free movement of capital, goods and labor, this will not be negotiated in any way, they come as a package, it's one of the founding principles of the EU, one can not pick and choose what free movement they allow. This would have many implications and truly jeopardize the European project. I'm sure the EU will be able to cope without the UK, not that they depend that much on each other but I think the UK will be hurt more in the long term.

 

If they give them some special deal, it would be the end of it all, many current euroskeptic nations and parties will be emboldened and will push for a similar deal. That simply won't happen, don't underestimate the political will behind the EU.

wow, so the people who didn't win, or those who don't support what was actually voted on only days ago are already whinging and trying to have their way when they were beaten fair and square?

 

this really is a world of entitlement. If you didn't win, you make do and move on.

 

 

Keep voting/suing/whining until you get the result you want...

 

So you call it fair and square when most of the promises have already been exposed as lies?

Talk about pushing you agenda, oh the irony...

So you call it fair and square when most of the promises have already been exposed as lies?

Talk about pushing you agenda, oh the irony...

 

I'm not taking a stand 1 way or another. and lets face it almost everything in politics is based on misdirection and lies.

 

however if a vote is had by the population and the mouth breathers get to have their say you have to accept the outcome. That is democracy and if a certain party/position wins through a democratic system, then it basically is fair and square. Anything other than this starts moving towards dictatorship or a totalitarian government, which as much as it would be OK in some instances (assuming someone who knows how to fun things), but lets be serious it is rarely the case that anyone in power is the best person for the job, in the case of appointment or democratic election.

 

Believe me, there are many things locally to where I live that I would love to see changed (even something as simple as daylight saving in Summer), however the mouth breathers are too numerous and powerful so it is always defeated when put to a vote. It does affect my amenity and lifestyle, but so be it, i accept that the luddites win and move on. You can only play the cards your dealt, whinging about them or asking for a re-shuffle is just the sign of a sore looser.

 

So I put it to you, that it is in fact yourself who could be considered one of the sore losers. Sorry it didnt go your way, but these are the things we must accept living in a democracy. Sometimes decisions are left to people we dont agree with.

whinging about them or asking for a re-shuffle is just the sign of a sore looser.

I thought so too for a long time but have come to see it in a different light recently.

The truth is, it is in some cases the only way to win and in the end, that´s all that matters. As the saying goes: The end justifies the means

 

The only question is who can impose his will on the other, by any means possible. That´s the way of the world, not playing that game, would be dumb, incompetent and a loseres attitude.

 

Of course you can´t allow yourself to be emotionaly investet too much in anything, as the possibility of losing is always there.

As you said, play the cards to your best abilities in your personal life, but don´t quit politics before even starting to really go for it.

Damn, the brits really snookered themselves. Suddenly all the promises/reasons for the brexit seem to be falling apart.

Damn, the brits really snookered themselves. Suddenly all the promises/reasons for the brexit seem to be falling apart.

 

Seems to be the way of the world.

Promise things that are either impossible to give or will only be sustainable for a short period of time and the general (idiot) voter will go for it.

 

S & P just lowered the UK's credit rating.

Reckon next up is Austria. Their far right movement is horrible and gaining popularity each and every day.

 

Yet the first thing the idiot tweets is that Scotland is going nuts for the vote and "they got their country back." Ironic that roughly over 60% of Scotland voted Remain.

To be fair he is correct. Scotland's last ref was to remain part of the UK, it voted stay due to ties with Europe etc. Now that nullifies that referendum and there is a push for a second Scottish ref to and the SNP made this clear prior to the vote. What shocked me was that the scots voted in. I expected some dirty tactical voting by them.

 

wow, so the people who didn't win, or those who don't support what was actually voted on only days ago are already whinging and trying to have their way when they were beaten fair and square?

 

this really is a world of entitlement. If you didn't win, you make do and move on.

I did and I would not say I am entitled.

 

I tell you why. I voted remain.

But one key component in the out campaign was the £350m a week we give to EU would be given to the NHS. The morning of the victory the lead campaigner said that was a mistake and that was not going to happen.

 

Many of the places in the UK that need to live off of the EU and its subsides have voted out. How messed up is that?

Cornwall voted out and now still want the EU money?

 

Then this morning, one of the leading figures within the leave campaign was asked on the Exit strategy. Said No 10 should have one in place.

To clarify, No.10 was in favour for staying, why should it devise a strategy to leave? How the fcuk does that work? Do you devise a divorce strategy on your wedding day?

The people that conjured up the hate and bile stirred the pot not knowing what the fcuk was in there and now they have this broth on their hands and don't know how to serve it up.

 

The number of hate crimes has risen dramatically and the conduct of a lot of people has been pathetic.

One woman on national political radio today said she voted out of the EU because she does not like Chinese food.

 

https://twitter.com/mrnickharvey/status/747347399396384768

 

 

I know nothing will come of it but given a chance to rectify it I would hope England wakes the fcuk up.

One woman on national political radio today said she voted out of the EU because she does not like Chinese food.

 

Wow, she didn't know that China is not part of the EU? Lol

 

welll one thing's for sure, we are in for some of the best reality TV we've ever seen.

 

This coupled with Trump means the world can be entertained for a very long time. No more need for sitcoms just need the news.

 

anyway, I'm not living there so it doesnt bother me, I hope you guys get what you want in the end. My point was just that if we want democracy we have to accept what comes of it. It surely is still a hell of a lot better than living in Pyongyang

BREXIT, now exiting also EURO football tournament.

Reckon next up is Austria. Their far right movement is horrible and gaining popularity each and every day.

Don´t worry, I´ll take care of my fellow austrians

I did and I would not say I am entitled.

 

I tell you why. I voted remain.

But one key component in the out campaign was the £350m a week we give to EU would be given to the NHS. The morning of the victory the lead campaigner said that was a mistake and that was not going to happen.

 

Many of the places in the UK that need to live off of the EU and its subsides have voted out. How messed up is that?

Cornwall voted out and now still want the EU money?

 

 

So basically, your argument comes down to welfare at a nation state level? Britain should stay because it gets money (magically I suppose... From SOMEWHERE ELSE in Europe) that it neither created nor earned? That sounds like a recipe for disaster... I've seen what that mentality has done at the familial level... (its toxic)... Apparently the dole is so engrained in British culture that you can't see how dangerous it is to expand it to the entire fcuking continent?

 

Britain did fine as a sovereign nation for almost 800 years... Despite their obsession with royalty and weak chins... It will be just fine moving forward as one again.

Britain isnt the concern, though I hope the EU proper fucks them when it comes to renegotiating trade deals, as a warning to the rest of the bloc.

 

Contagion is the unknown giving everything fits right now.

So basically, your argument comes down to welfare at a nation state level? Britain should stay because it gets money (magically I suppose... From SOMEWHERE ELSE in Europe) that it neither created nor earned? That sounds like a recipe for disaster... I've seen what that mentality has done at the familial level... (its toxic)... Apparently the dole is so engrained in British culture that you can't see how dangerous it is to expand it to the entire fcuking continent?

 

Britain did fine as a sovereign nation for almost 800 years... Despite their obsession with royalty and weak chins... It will be just fine moving forward as one again.

It's not welfare these depressed areas in the UK get from the EU. They get agricultural subsidies, which is completely normal, everyone does. What they also get is EU development funds, that isn't welfare. There are programs designed to help development in certain areas according to their needs/local resources etc. These funds are a godsend to many impoverished areas across Europe, west and east alike. They fund small and medium sized businesses, startups, R&D, urban development, infrastructure, retraining people, environment protection etc. They are used for a very wide range of purposes and are very effective, I'd say in most cases these funds are more effectively used through EU programs than they'd be if that money was directly given by governments. I've worked with EU funding myself on a number of projects. Most of these development funds are not returnable either, (basically free money up to 90% of the projects value in some cases) with the purpose of business expansion, for building infrastructure, retraining etc, ofc it comes with obligations of fulfilling whatever you set out to do, and the EU retains some control over the money and verifies that they are being spent as per the project you submit, but the money being injected in the local economies stays there and kickstarts the economic cycle. The way the EU hopes to get its money back is by developing said areas in order for them to become contributors to the economy. Each country pays money into these EU funds according to its GDP.

 

I've personally implemented such projects in impoverished areas which the government didn't consider was worth investing in as they deemed it not to be an area of potential, and was not a priority. Local authorities weren't able to do much, because they didn't have enough money and all the local people got was gvt welfare, which simply kept them in the same vicious cycle of poverty. After working with locals to retrain them, and with the local authorities to attract EU funds for building infrastructure, we've managed to attract a large investment from an auto parts company that created about 550 jobs in a small town of about 8000 people that had lost almost 35% of its population in 10 years due to lack of economic opportunities. These kinds of situations exist all over Europe, the UK included. Mining towns, former industrial towns etc. EU funding does a whole world of good to a lot of people and are very tightly and efficiently managed.

 

The EU has its flaws, but it also has its good parts, which imo outweigh the flaws by a large margin, and EU funds I dare say, are far better managed this way, than by governments, because people directly access them according to the needs and potential of their communities. The current anti EU rhetoric doesn't show you the whole picture. I've yet to see anyone that is firmly positioned against the EU, discuss the effects of development funding. EU's flaws can be fixed. Governments haven't paid attention to these forgotten communities for decades. Keeping them on welfare is wrong, as it doesn't alleviate or improve their situations. I'm firmly against any sort of long term welfare payments, basic minimum income and whatever wacky shit the left comes up with these days, it does nothing but harm. You know the old adage... Teach a man to fish... It's actually true.

So basically, your argument comes down to welfare at a nation state level? Britain should stay because it gets money (magically I suppose... From SOMEWHERE ELSE in Europe) that it neither created nor earned? That sounds like a recipe for disaster... I've seen what that mentality has done at the familial level... (its toxic)... Apparently the dole is so engrained in British culture that you can't see how dangerous it is to expand it to the entire fcuking continent?

 

Britain did fine as a sovereign nation for almost 800 years... Despite their obsession with royalty and weak chins... It will be just fine moving forward as one again.

 

 

I appreciate I am entering into debate with a lawyer so the chances of winning are very slim

 

The dole? That is not my reasoning.

My reasoning is that the whole campaign to exit was a utopian dream dreamt up by some fame hungry cock-wrenches banging a noisy drum because they crave the limelight and it appealed to elderly embittered old ill informed grumps dreaming of the past of a country that never was.

The lead campaigners do not and have not got a clue.

 

Yes our country once had its flag flying around the world and sun never set on our empire but that crumbled and it has been a shadow of its former self for many decades. As a single unity we do not have a sustainable environment to thrive in this modern world. We have a shower of fuckwits on both sides of our parliament all breeding hate and contempt. This country is in a bleak fcuking place and it needed to work with people. Not have handouts but work with countries on its door step and make the EU more effective. It is not perfect, no institute representing that many people will ever be as people sure love to bitch but it had a chance of working to improve the lives of many.

 

Here is my point.

If companies and countries were queuing up to do trade deals with us then I would look at the situation differently but no one is banging on the door wanting to work with us whilst we are on our own. Companies are already looking into exit strategies to move their plants abroad back into the EU zone. The whole campaign has been an exercise in fear and fact dodging.

The whole campaign has been an exercise in fear and fact dodging.

 

DT and Brexit are using the same playbook.

The EU has its flaws, but it also has its good parts, which imo outweigh the flaws by a large margin, and EU funds I dare say, are far better managed this way, than by governments, because people directly access them according to the needs and potential of their communities. The current anti EU rhetoric doesn't show you the whole picture.

 

Farmers would get the stick way worse in most countries without eu.

Yes that legislation has many loopholes and stupid attributes, but it's still a good cake with few bad raisins not other way.

 

They'll keep voting till they get it right.

Can the referendum be overruled if someone with half a brain figures out that they've really stuffed up?

As if all the research, conducted prior, on the financial loss in the event of leaving wasn't enough.

 

Just curious.

Can the referendum be overruled if someone with half a brain figures out that they've really stuffed up?

As if all the research, conducted prior, on the financial loss in the event of leaving wasn't enough.

 

Just curious.

three days later the lawyers are starting to look into it. Seriously.

Democracy is great unless I don't get what I want and I'll try circumvent it.