"People buy Lamborghinis because they can’t get their hands on a Ferrari"

I VOTE BAN!

IMO, Marchionne is half-correct.

 

Until Audi bought Lamborghini, it had been hanging by a thread and changed ownership several times. While Ferrari and its marketing machine soldiered right through due to their F1 involvement. Admit it, who as a kid didn't dream of having a Ferrari (to be fair, nearly every kid had a Countach poster too); we had been drinking the dancing donkey Kool-aid for the longest time. And for that, when we have the means, we walk in a Ferrari dealership ready to buy a car --- only to be snubbed away saying you need to start from the ground up. I.e. buy a used one or buy a Maser and then graduate from the ranks. Some may consider this like a frat house initiation and they are more than willing to join their inner circle. And once they have joined, they become just as self-absorbing. More practical and realistic people, like us, will simply walk out and take our business elsewhere and, for better or for worse, Lamborghini is right next in line. Try as Lambo/Audi/VAG may, one simply cannot beat the marketing machinery of Ferrari. The good thing is there is absolutely nothing to be ashamed of from Lamborghini and many people, the majority of us here included, are glad that we entered the bull pen because the modern Lambo's are superior in build and finish (thanks to Audi) and, of course, looks. Has anyone compared the build between a Huracan and a 488; or an Aventador to a F12? Lambo's have much tighter tolerance than Ferrari in terms of magnitude. And sure, academically, Ferrari's seem to be faster but at that level, it's negligible. (Surely, Ferrari fed more than enough of its Kool-aid, among other perks, to the media/automotive journalist too.) And let's be real: would you want a marginally faster but uglier car or would you want an academically slower car but with killer looks? Lamborghini had always been viewed as the dark horse and I think we are absolutely proud of that. Who wants "mainstream" anyway? We dare to be different; always had been, always will be.

 

So Marchionne is right, some of us went to Lamborghini when we couldn't get our hands on a Ferrari. But that's only the first part of a sentence. The entire sentence should be: People buy Lamborghini's because they can't get their hands on a Ferrari; and that's actually a blessing in disguise for those who got turned down because once they had experienced a Lamborghini, they know it's the superior machine; they now realize the Kool-aid that Ferrari had been feeding them all these years and they don't want to dance with the donkeys anymore.

 

I've had a couple of both F's and L's, and there are douchebags in both owner groups....just have to avoid them 😂

I actually love both equally and respect each for different reasons. Ferrari has great racing heritage and Lambo has incomparable presence.

But Marchionne does speak a little truth in that the waiting in line game is stupid and ridiculous. But they must be doing doing something right because how is it that you release a car, and in a couple months it sells for double MSRP (458 SA)??

 

In my book... I would love a CS and a 458S to complement my 16M. Last year, I was eyeing the market for a 458S for several months but they were all asking well over MSRP. I was super close in nabbing one, but passed. Instead, I ended up picking up my Murcie SV. Still looking at the 458S....still over MSRP. fcuk that! So...... now picking up the Performante. I had a couple of good friend connections that allowed me to get a quick order, and no silly waiting games. Really appreciate that. Maybe I am in the Lambo corner now.....

Honestly both are great.

^Fundamentally agree with what you said. From a machine perspective, both are fine with their own superiority at certain criteria. Also agree that both camps have their share of douchebags as well but, with due respect and in no way am I targeting you whatsoever, the term "Ferrari Fag" does exist; although to be fair Lamborghini is slowly trying to make its way there too. As seen from Geneva this year, even top brands like Bugatti, Koenigsegg, Paganni and Maserati are adding apparel and fashionable accessories for people to purchase on the spot!

 

Call it marketing genius or outright snobbery, it's the attitude of the company that leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Whether it's the sales or, as demonstrated, the CEO himself. One almost needs to thank them for their willingness to sell you a car. Makes one wonders if they are trained to be nasty. Sure, once they figured out who you truly are, they treat you right but I don't need such a BS initiation process.

Ferrari can't match the look of a Lambo (IMO).

One almost needs to thank them for their willingness to sell you a car. Makes one wonders if they are trained to be nasty. Sure, once they figured out who you truly are, they treat you right but I don't need such a BS initiation process.

 

This is a prevalent theme I see with many on here. The rebuff pissing a lot of people off, all the way up to Jay Leno and more.

 

It seems like myself and a few others who have never walked into a dealership to actually buy a new Ferrari will not comprehend the full meaning of this until it is our turn.

 

I almost equate it a little to these leftist Hollywood actors you've loved your whole life getting on their political kick saying stupid stuff and making you question your love for them a little. At what point does their stupidity override their aura?

 

An anecdote on buying a Ferrari for the first time:

 

A guy we know in the DC area (we'll call him "Bob") is in his mid to late 60s and has upper 9 figure wealth. He decides he wants to buy a Ferrari. So he goes to Ferrari of Washington with my friend very casually as if to pick up something from Home Depot. He eyes a 360 and tells the salesman he wants to buy it.

 

The salesman replies that he will have to get on a waiting list and it can take several months. Bob says "I can't wait that long. I can get hit by a bus tomorrow!! Tell me what I have to do to buy it??"

 

"You see that 456 right there? Buy it and I will put you top of the list right now"

 

Bob pulls out his phone and calls his assistant then puts her on hold...looks at the salesman and says "What's your wiring information?"

 

He was in Maranello a few weeks later spec'ing out the 360.

 

The irony is that when it was all said and done he sold both the 456 and 360 at near profits or break even. Never had to wait very long or buy used. He treated the cars like they were quite disposable and yet obtained it (and got out of it) far more easily than those who have lusted their entire lives for it.

 

Of course not everyone has the money and power to do this, but the directness this man had in his later life was something to witness. It's possible that it was more than just money that made this transaction work.

 

BTW, a Maserati is surely a worthy price to pay to get into the F owner's club as one should have one of these great cars anyways, A Ferrari California to get into a 458, not so sure about that...

 

 

 

 

I've had a couple of both F's and L's, and there are douchebags in both owner groups....just have to avoid them 😂

I actually love both equally and respect each for different reasons. Ferrari has great racing heritage and Lambo has incomparable presence.

But Marchionne does speak a little truth in that the waiting in line game is stupid and ridiculous. But they must be doing doing something right because how is it that you release a car, and in a couple months it sells for double MSRP (458 SA)??

 

In my book... I would love a CS and a 458S to complement my 16M. Last year, I was eyeing the market for a 458S for several months but they were all asking well over MSRP. I was super close in nabbing one, but passed. Instead, I ended up picking up my Murcie SV. Still looking at the 458S....still over MSRP. fcuk that! So...... now picking up the Performante. I had a couple of good friend connections that allowed me to get a quick order, and no silly waiting games. Really appreciate that. Maybe I am in the Lambo corner now.....

Honestly both are great.

 

Nice post!

 

And I would agree that no Ferrari is worth significantly more than any similar Lamborghini (and vice versa).

 

BTW, not every F or L is bought brand new whether through lack of means or just a desire to buy an older car. To apply dealership BS in comparing a 430 to a Gallardo at this point would be silly.

 

But it feels like that is still permeating people's minds.

Jay Leno was rejected by Ferrari?

An anecdote on buying a Ferrari for the first time:

 

A guy we know in the DC area (we'll call him "Bob") is in his mid to late 60s and has upper 9 figure wealth. He decides he wants to buy a Ferrari. So he goes to Ferrari of Washington with my friend very casually as if to pick up something from Home Depot. He eyes a 360 and tells the salesman he wants to buy it.

 

The salesman replies that he will have to get on a waiting list and it can take several months. Bob says "I can't wait that long. I can get hit by a bus tomorrow!! Tell me what I have to do to buy it??"

 

"You see that 456 right there? Buy it and I will put you top of the list right now"

 

Bob pulls out his phone and calls his assistant then puts her on hold...looks at the salesman and says "What's your wiring information?"

 

He was in Maranello a few weeks later spec'ing out the 360.

 

And that's exactly the problem and Ferrari gets away with it and hence the snobbery. If I were that man, I would roll by next day and wave from my brand new Lamborghini; a year later, I will roll by and wave again from a different brand new Lamborghini and do the same a year later if not sooner and keep doing it until I get bored of Lamborghini's.

I bought the gallardo 7 years ago bc my brother's f360 wasn't so reliable. And, I don't want to a copy cat

 

My bro got a 458 now. It is flawless. He picked up a California for the back seats. California's cluster failed and his cpo didn't cover it. I maybe some Ferrari have reliability of crappy BMWs. Drives great but it falls apart.

 

Why didn't they cover it under CPO?

Fortis, I learned a long time ago that driving the cars answers all the questions in a very direct way. A quick drive in the older Ford GT wowed me a lot more than a 430 or G at the time which I don't think I could have predicted before hand. So there is a disclaimer that I reserve the right to change my mind given further information (driving experience).....but I will still play the game.

 

As I've stated before the RWD is a big thing for me, so dynamically that's probably enough to go Ferrari over Lamborghini. The 580 Huracan is a wildcard going up against the 458 (not 488, because I'm still a bit of an N/A holdout)....I think both cars look really good, maybe the Huracan a little nicer. The flat plane V8 to me sounds harmonically nicer than a V10 (even I-4 vs. odd order I-5), so on that alone I like the F a little more.

 

Aventador vs. F12 is a more polarizing comparison, and it's been this way the last 20 years comparing the big V12s. A wild beast versus a gentleman's machine.

 

The Aventador SV's looks are very exciting, while the F12 TdF and 812 motor is insane. Tough call. I had similar internal conflict with the 670SV and the 599 GTO for exactly the same reasons.

 

Standard AV vs. F12, I like the F12 more. On the more hardcore end, maybe the AV.

 

Is it ok that I don't know?

 

Just checking, you still an engineer, not a politician right?

IMO Porsche is equally as bad as Ferrari, they think their beetles are God's gift to humanity, I just want to laugh.

Just checking, you still an engineer, not a politician right?

 

Correct, but in later years I've introduced more disclaimers.

 

 

 

 

IMO Porsche is equally as bad as Ferrari, they think their beetles are God's gift to humanity, I just want to laugh.

 

They make some fast and great handling Beetles, with good build quality.

 

But hard to look at one with the same level of visceral desire as the Italians.

Unfortunately, this statement is exactly the attitude why I am a Lamborghini owner. I refuse to typecast a group of people but how a brand is perceived comes from the very top. Marchione strikes me as arrogant, elitist and his snobbery seems to get mimicked by lots of their buyers.

IMO Porsche is equally as bad as Ferrari, they think their beetles are God's gift to humanity, I just want to laugh.

 

Totally agree....the P market is absolutely insane with air cooled porsches and manuals going through the roof.

Same thing with the 918 owners getting fed the 911R's which are selling 3-5 times MSRP??? What gives? Seriously which I bought the 918 and picked up a 911R....would have made a cool mil in months, better than real estate.

...arrogant, elitist and his snobbery seems to get mimicked by lots of their buyers.

But does Ferrari realize that their buyers are dying? I've been to Ferrari-club events where not a single owner is younger than 60, and the guys wandering around looking at the cars are in the same bracket. I can already tell my kid considers Ferrari to be an old person's dying car marque and, if he's any window into the future, Maranello has some big F'in problems on the horizon.

Look at the numbers:

 

A big Ferrari store gets 5-6 new cars a month. It's easy to see why they are so arrogant and how irrelevant losing a customer really is to them.

 

Now think how few limited edition cars they will get. They already have their one or two super clients that get every special car. As the super client gets too old, their "spot" is passed down to their kids. Mere mortals will never see a new super car.

 

No doubt they are trained in the psychology of the deal as they all treat everyone with arrogance, even the really good clients. Maybe not the super clients since they are also close to the factory but who knows or cares. They have been ordained by Maranello to print money.

I believe the ultimate Ferrari elitism is in trying to start a dealership.

 

In that regard, it would be very hard to do compared to Lamborghini, all other things considered.

Look at the numbers:

 

A big Ferrari store gets 5-6 new cars a month. It's easy to see why they are so arrogant and how irrelevant losing a customer really is to them.

 

Now think how few limited edition cars they will get. They already have their one or two super clients that get every special car. As the super client gets too old, their "spot" is passed down to their kids. Mere mortals will never see a new super car.

 

No doubt they are trained in the psychology of the deal as they all treat everyone with arrogance, even the really good clients. Maybe not the super clients since they are also close to the factory but who knows or cares. They have been ordained by Maranello to print money.

 

This is what I don't understand from a business model standpoint. How does Ferrari survive on its laurels and arrogance? It can not be self-sustaining. If you look at other top international brands...Nike, Coke, Apple, Rolex, etc. no one on Earth treats their customers with such prominent arrogance. Maybe Hermes is a close second, but still there is relevance in "customer service."

 

This is what I don't understand from a business model standpoint. How does Ferrari survive on its laurels and arrogance? It can not be self-sustaining. If you look at other top international brands...Nike, Coke, Apple, Rolex, etc. no one on Earth treats their customers with such prominent arrogance. Maybe Hermes is a close second, but still there is relevance in "customer service."

 

 

It's is easy when you are the only game in town circa 1995....what Ferrari fails to realize is that companies like Lamborghini, McLaren, Aston Martin, Bentley et Al are eating into their market share in each segment they compete in year after year. They could be selling 15,000 - 20,000 cars a year if they didn't have such a fcuk you attitude.

after having a few Lambos and McLarens which have been awesome, my 1 Ferrari experience hasn't been great with the F430. I know it's old, but I have driven the 458, f12 and 488 and they just don't impress me at all... I have ZERO interest to upgrade my Ferrari... Ferrari seems like an overrated status symbol....

This is what I don't understand from a business model standpoint. How does Ferrari survive on its laurels and arrogance? It can not be self-sustaining. If you look at other top international brands...Nike, Coke, Apple, Rolex, etc. no one on Earth treats their customers with such prominent arrogance. Maybe Hermes is a close second, but still there is relevance in "customer service."

 

Hence what I said about Ferrari's marketing machine. With due respect to the LP members who are also F-cars owners, Ferrari had fed enough Kool-aid to the general public that most people see it as a milestone in life. Like what Sinatra said, people want to be somebody and to get there, you buy a Ferrari. In an ironic way, Sinatra somewhat spoke for Ferrari too; especially to those who are on their way up... There are plenty who are dying to tell their peers/friends/foes that they have arrived so they will put up with all the crap from Ferrari in order to deliver that message. Like you said, many women see acquiring a Hermes Birkin as their milestone in life. There are at least 2 other brands that I knew of that offers equally if not better quality bags which cost less and involves very little wait time. And yet Hermes can't crank them out soon enough.

 

And this isn't exclusive to F-cars or Hermes either. Look at Leica. They are actually worse: they partner with Panasonic, select a few of their models, tweak some of the firmware a slight bit, put a red circle in front to re-badge the thing and raise the price 160%. And yet people are literally lining up to get one. The same applies to all the JBL 43xx, 44xx and the 5xxxx series of speakers. Just by the name and series, they are good!

It's is easy when you are the only game in town circa 1995....what Ferrari fails to realize is that companies like Lamborghini, McLaren, Aston Martin, Bentley et Al are eating into their market share in each segment they compete in year after year. They could be selling 15,000 - 20,000 cars a year if they didn't have such a fcuk you attitude.

 

There is some level of respectability behind limiting production based on creating a stronger aura. Before the millennium, production levels of Italian exotics were far lower than they are today.

 

It's the big reason why Porsche will never quite be an exotic like Lamborghini or Ferrari (brand wise, not talking specific models that pop).

 

And let's face it, Ferrari has always produced more cars each year than Lamborghini. More TRs than Countachs, more Maranellos than Diablos....right?

 

I believe that is still true today with the current lineups?

 

BTW, not to discount the important discussion of buying brand new from a dealer, but for the many who don't.....what relevance does that have to the marque?

 

It's hard enough for people to own these things pre-owned, let alone brand spanking new. Even those that could in theory do it might still not do it just because of that pesky new car tax, which exists at every level of car purchasing.

 

Put another way, there are many, many more buyers of pre-owned Ferraris of all ages than those buying a brand new Lamborghini from a dealer. Should these Ferrari owners who have never/will never buy new from Ferrari suddenly turn righteous and stop caring about the marque?

 

The 488 and F12 you supposedly cannot have right now will be easy to get in 5 years.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ferrari seems like an overrated status symbol....

 

 

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