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Paypal Users Beware!


GARY JAVO
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Paypal users beware. 100% buyer protection is BS. I am going through one of the most ridiculous situation of my life, and I hope by writing this, I might save someone from dealing with the same thing.

 

I usually don't keep any money in my Paypal account, but about a week ago, I sold an item on Ebay for $1400 and they paid by Paypal. Later that night, I receive a confirmation email from Paypal about two payments I made. One was for $12 and the other was for $1200. I immediately assumed it was one of those scam emails where they try to get you all riled up so you will log into your account from the email and then they will have your account info, so I close the email and went to Paypal.com. After logging in, I confirmed that two payments had been taken out of my account for $12 and $1200. I immediately disputed the transactions. The next day, I called Paypal (during business hours) to confirm the disputes. They told me that it would take about 3 days to reach their decision.

 

The next day, I received an email saying that they decided in my favor on the $12 charge and refunded the money back to my account. Great. It wasn't until a day later that I get the next email from Paypal. This one says that after investigating the situation, Paypal has decided that I did approve the $1200 payment, I would not be getting the funds back, and the case was closed. You can imagine how I felt about that one.

 

The next day, I called Paypal to try and figure out what was going on. They told me that they confirmed that I did, in fact, send John Smith (obviously not his name) a payment for $1200. I told them that I have never heard of John Smith, and I have never communicated with anyone at his email. They told me that someone from my computer authorized the payment. I told them that there was no way that a payment was authorized by me for $1200 to John Smith. They told me that a room mate or someone else in the house must have done it. I told them that the only people in my house are me and my wife, and that she did not use it. He finally broke it down for me by telling me that they decided against me because when you login to your Paypal account, their system records info about the computer you are using. If it is from the same computer you have always used, it is proof that you are the one sending the money.

 

At this point, I am a bit baffled. I know that I did not send this money to someone I do not know. I know that my wife is the only other person with access to my laptop, and she did not do it. I start to get paranoid. Did someone get close to my house and hack into our wireless networks? I ask Paypal what I purchased from John Smith. They said that it was a "personal payment". You mean I just gave someone $1200 for nothing in return? Yep. I said that I did not know John Smith, I do not know that email, I did not send him $1200, and I have no idea why it shows that the payment came from my computer. They said that they would would reopen the investigation and get back to me. Later that day, I receive an email stating that they have re-reviewed the case and decided against me, again. I call again and they now treating me like a criminal with short snippy answers.

 

I ask them for John's contact info. They told me that they cannot give out that information. Let me get this straight. Someone can accept $1200 as a personal payment from me, but I can't ask for their phone number? I can understand not giving out contact info to just anyone, but you have now decided that I intentionally sent this person $1200 with nothing in return, but I shouldn't have access to their phone number or address?! That is absurd. I asked them what do I need to do next, and they basically told me that there was no "next". This is their decision and that's that. I asked them for the IP address they have for my computer so I can investigate on my end to try and come up with something. Anything. They told me that they cannot release the details of the investigation unless I write a letter to some office. My blood was absolutely boiling! Paypal, the safe payment company, the 100% buyer protection company, had just left me out to dry in the worst possible way. I was baffled.

 

Just for the hell of it, I decided to email John Smith. I told him that I did not authorize the payment, and I would be going to the local authorities the next day if I did not hear from him. I told him that I just wanted my money returned to me. It was a shot in the dark, and I really did not expect a response. Finally, the heavens parted and tiny sliver of light shone down on this dismal situation. John Smith actually emailed me back! This is what he sent…

 

"I don't know if the transaction is Unauthorized or not, but i already send $1200 to [email protected] alertpay account. As this guy send me $1200 for exchange transaction. I already send $1200 to his account.

Contact him and recover the money from him, because he send this money to my account and i send $1200 to his alertpay account.

I am providing PayPal to Moneybooker, AlertPay and Liberty Reserve Exchange Service. My Blog is xxxx.blogspot.com"

(I x'ed out the email and web address)

 

After reading that email, I am guessing that I have gotten caught up in some sort of scheme involving a chain of payments from one Paypal account to another making it difficult to find the person responsible. I call Paypal back and tell them about the email. After some coaxing, they allow me to forward both emails (to and from John) to them and they reopen the case. As I am writing this, I still have not heard their decision about this. The last fraud specialist I spoke with told me to do a spyware scan on my computer. I told her that I am running security software, but I would do a fresh scan. She told me that there is a certain virus that can get onto your computer that will find out your login info, and send information from your computer. She made it sound like this is probably what has happened here. She also made it sound like they are not responsible for security issues on my end, and they might try to use that angle to get out of making this right for me.

 

No matter how this winds up, I have been made to feel like a criminal by Paypal. They have done very little to help me out here, and if I wouldn't have contacted the crook, or if he would have been dumb enough to respond, I would have been dead in the water. They had decided the case was closed. Forget the fact that I didn't purchase anything from the guy. Forget the fact that the $12 charge that was made at the same time was reversed. Oh yeah, and what about John's email? If what it said is true, he has $1200 payments coming and going in and out of his account. Wouldn't that look a little suspicious? And if I am that adamant about this, what would be the harm in asking John Smith to forward some email correspondence proving that I agreed to send him the payment. I mean, surely we would have had some kind of communication about the transaction before I sent him a personal payment for $1200, right?

 

The entire situation is absurd! If they do wind up reversing the charge, I am going to transfer the funds to my bank account and cancel my Paypal account immediately. I hope this story keeps someone from going through what I have experienced.

 

Oh, and by the way, I came home and did a complete virus scan (took about 1 1/2 hours) and it found three items. One was a "worm", and the other two were "trojan horses". Make sure to do the complete scan, and not the quick scan that it normally does. The quick scan was obviously overlooking these.

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I've not had problems with paypal, but I've read lots of horror stories about how they screw people badly. I hope you get your money back.

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I know what you mean. I have also always used Paypal with no problem. I have learned that everything is great until you have a problem.

 

I just picked up a Macbook Pro. Love it.

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F'd up story!!!

 

Hope it all works out and my blood boiled just reading this story!

 

Makes you want to borrow from RD's firearm collection and do battle!

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I hate PayPal. Literally the worst payment processor, ever.

 

They have thousands of dollars of my money tied up in accounts and will not release it until I provide them with tons of documents I don't feel they are priveledged to have. Tracking #'s confirm the buyers have received their items, and there have been no disputes. Yet PayPal is keeping the money.

 

New PayPal users actually have to ship products now before PayPal will let them release the funds to their bank account. Are you kidding me?!

 

fcuking scam company. fcuk PayPal. I'm sorry about your situation, they are horribly frustrating to deal with. There are so many anti-PayPal websites out there with these horror stories...

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Seriously fcuk PayPal.

 

I was using them for affiliate payouts for http://www.vipwithme.com (I got permission from them to use them for this back in April). Out of nowhere they lock my account.

 

They simply state that they changed their policies:

 

Thank you for contacting PayPal with your concerns.

 

PayPal's Policy regarding the use of PayPal for affiliate payouts for

Mature Material has changed since your email communication back in April of

2010.

 

We sincerely apologize for the confusion.

 

If you have any questions, please contact the PayPal Acceptable Use Policy

Department at [email protected].

 

Sincerely,

Sofia

PayPal, Brand Risk Management

PayPal, an eBay Company

 

Please do not reply to this email. This mailbox is not monitored and you

will not receive a response. For assistance, log in to your PayPal account

and click the Help link in the top right corner of any PayPal page.

 

Original Message Follows:

------------------------

To whom it may concern,

 

We were given prior authorization by PayPal AUP team to use PayPal for

vendor and affiliate payout services as long as PayPal was not used for

processing incoming payments. This is now greatly hurting our new business

as the account was limited with no warning.

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Bummer Gary, hope you get your $$$ back. I never have used paypal, unless I know the party I am buying from or selling to, its a credit card or nada.

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I'll third what was already said about switching to a Mac. I switched from a PC to a MacBook Pro 2 or 3 months ago, partly for this reason, and am loving it.

 

By the way, DO NOT RELENT with these fuckers!

 

Ask them, out of curiosity ,why they refunded the $12 transaction but not the $1,200 transaction. (Were they to the same person?)

 

Insist that they provide any and all details regarding the transaction -- no stonewalling. Threaten to write a long, long complaint letter to the Better Business Bureau and to your local and/or state law enforcement (whether you're bluffing or not), AND threaten to take legal action. Often these companies only respond when they're seriously threatened.

 

By the way, I would never keep actual funds in my PayPal account. I just use a credit card when/if I ever buy anything via PayPal. That way, if PayPal give me shit (like they're giving you) about something, at least Amex will additionally back me up. It might be a huge hassle with them to some degree as well, but they're far more likely to have your back, I believe.

 

Good luck with it. NO SURRENDER!!!

 

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You will lose. The $1200 is gone. Even if you decided to escalate it by hiring an attorney, PayPal will not budge, hiding behind their legal middle-man status through their expansive TOS. It is such complete and utter bullshit that it boggles the mind. If anything be thankful it wasn't more, that's how completely over this is.

 

For everyone else saying "I've used PayPal XXXX amount of times and never had a problem", you eventually will. And when you do, it will be unrecoverable and the amount in question will be a total loss.

 

For those of you running any business transactions through PayPal, or, keeping a balance in your PayPal account, or, have a bank account linked fully to PayPal, I would highly recommend you consider moving your business to a true dedicated merchant account (CC processor) to prevent major issues. I don't care, or want to hear, that you've run your business for years through them, blah blah blah, and give them high marks. You will also lose. It is only a matter of time.

 

I've had too many partners, friends, family, and associates, ALL lose money, or have large sums endlessly frozen by PayPal, in which even attorney assistance and ACTUAL LITIGATION were not successful whatsoever.

 

You've been warned...

 

What a shame, sorry Gary. Hope you are that one in a million who actually finds a way to get them to reimburse the loss.

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Hi Mako,

 

Out of curiosity, I have an online business and a regular credit card gateway / merchant account, but am also likely to add PayPal as a payment option to the checkout page, as it is said by any and all in the e-commerce business that offering PayPal as a payment options will increase your sales by some big percentage, like 10% or something.

 

If I don't *keep* my own money in the PayPal account (other than what comes in when a sale is made), and PayPal merely dumps the money into my BofA business checking account a couple days after a sale is made, am I at any major risk of these types of problems?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

You will lose. The $1200 is gone. Even if you decided to escalate it by hiring an attorney, PayPal will not budge, hiding behind their legal middle-man status through their expansive TOS. It is such complete and utter bullshit that it boggles the mind. If anything be thankful it wasn't more, that's how completely over this is.

 

For everyone else saying "I've used PayPal XXXX amount of times and never had a problem", you eventually will. And when you do, it will be unrecoverable and the amount in question will be a total loss.

 

For those of you running any business transactions through PayPal, or, keeping a balance in your PayPal account, or, have a bank account linked fully to PayPal, I would highly recommend you consider moving your business to a true dedicated merchant account (CC processor) to prevent major issues. I don't care, or want to hear, that you've run your business for years through them, blah blah blah, and give them high marks. You will also lose. It is only a matter of time.

 

I've had too many partners, friends, family, and associates, ALL lose money, or have large sums endlessly frozen by PayPal, in which even attorney assistance and ACTUAL LITIGATION were not successful whatsoever.

 

You've been warned...

 

What a shame, sorry Gary. Hope you are that one in a million who actually finds a way to get them to reimburse the loss.

 

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Hi Mako,

 

Out of curiosity, I have an online business and a regular credit card gateway / merchant account, but am also likely to add PayPal as a payment option to the checkout page, as it is said by any and all in the e-commerce business that offering PayPal as a payment options will increase your sales by some big percentage, like 10% or something.

 

If I don't *keep* my own money in the PayPal account (other than what comes in when a sale is made), and PayPal merely dumps the money into my BofA business checking account a couple days after a sale is made, am I at any major risk of these types of problems?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

In your scenario I would still add it, because your primary income is derived through usual channels. It's not a business-ending proposition if PayPal shuts you down for a month or two to investigate a bullshit claim from a customer.

 

Unfortunately, quickly taking any PayPal balance down to zero by transferring it out to your bank account isn't 100% foolproof because PayPal DOES have a legal right to go back into that bank account and withdraw funds directly if they determine you are the loser of a dispute.

 

However...

 

Nothing would stop you from transferring any PayPal balance to your verified and PayPal-linked bank account, and THEN transferring that money out of that linked bank account and into another unlinked account of yours at the same bank or other. That's about all you can do to protect yourself.

 

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Very sorry to hear that, BUT, provide them with the worm and trojan information. There IS actually a virus going out that takes a users paypal or itunes info. I luckily caught it on my computer yesterday. It's pretty recent.

 

Paypal customer service is by far the worst I've ever delt with. If I sell anything on ebay, I make sure to collect hair follicle samples as proof that a person has receiver the item! Been screwed many times in dealing with paypal.

 

Makes a lot of sense, but too many people put critical thinking aside and let "the rules" influence decisions. Unbelievable.

 

Best of luck.

 

Never keep a bank account on file. Only use your credit card. That way, if something does happen, you have a plan b instead of dealing with these retards.

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+1 to fcuk Paypal. If you sell something, ship it and get great feedback, why the hell would you have to wait 30 days to get your money...without interest? fcuk them.

 

 

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Wow, this makes me want to delete my paypal account.

 

I had one instance that paypal screwed me. It was a minor amount of money but one of those "principals of the matter" that made me mad. Someone paid me for design work and paid me through paypal since they were in another state. I claimed the money all was good.

 

2 MONTHS LATER suddenly a sum of money goes disappearing from my account. I am METICULOUS with my finances, even small amounts I notice and went "OH WTF?"

 

Looked and paypal took the money out saying the original person who sent it to me used an account that "was not authorized to use" - that person "disputed" it since this person had no permission to use it, and guess who never got their money back.

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Im defiantly taking my checking account off of my account when I get home. I knew people had problems but never knew they had as much control as they do.

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Paypal is utter shit. It's unbelievable that it is so blatantly unregulated. They used to receive ungodly amounts of flack for making in difficult to contact them before they were forced to give a telephone number and more contact info.

 

As nice and useful as it is, it's bottom of the barrel when it comes to financial 'institutions' of sorts. Complete shit.

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Removed both my accounts tied to my paypal, thanks for the motivation to do so. Finger on the trigger for the "Close account" button XD

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In your scenario I would still add it, because your primary income is derived through usual channels. It's not a business-ending proposition if PayPal shuts you down for a month or two to investigate a bullshit claim from a customer.

 

Unfortunately, quickly taking any PayPal balance down to zero by transferring it out to your bank account isn't 100% foolproof because PayPal DOES have a legal right to go back into that bank account and withdraw funds directly if they determine you are the loser of a dispute.

 

However...

 

Nothing would stop you from transferring any PayPal balance to your verified and PayPal-linked bank account, and THEN transferring that money out of that linked bank account and into another unlinked account of yours at the same bank or other. That's about all you can do to protect yourself.

 

Good to know. Thanks much for the explanation.

 

 

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Sorry to hear about your troubles with PP Gary. Lot's of horror stories.

 

You got your $12 back because it's not worth it for them to investigate. The $1200 is another story.

Credit card companies do the same thing for anything less than $40 +/-

 

Good luck, but I'm afraid Mako is right.

 

 

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Good to know. Thanks much for the explanation.

:iamwithstupid:

 

i'm very sorry to hear about your story, but hopefully it'll help out the rest of lambopower

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I too was f cked by paypal, last time i needed to do a dispute was a couple of years ago when I purchased something and never gotten my product (at that time policy was you must wait after 30 days to file a dispute) now a couple years later I am in need to file a dispute again and the policy has changed without any notication which now must be filed under 20 days of purchase. I was wtf it was after 30 now before 20 days to file? When you need them they will f ck you up and steal your money.

 

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