Lambo Owners BEWARE!!!!! shoddy clutch repair.

I've been bitting my tougue on this for a couple of years...I had some SHODDY repair work done. NOW, I have discovered thru a Very Reliable source that someone else is doing the same thing, so I'm going to share some shocking news to prevent this from happening to any of the the LP members... Without mentioning the company,or individuals, a couple of years ago I had a clutch replacement on one of my Lamborghinis done at a repair facility in the state of New Jersey... I discovered that when they replaced the clutch...they didn't pull the motor...they CUT the FUCKIN cross member in front of the transmission, cut holes in the floor under the console and took out the transmission below the car.and BOLTED in a self welded crossmember.Sad, but true. I went out of my fuckin mind, but since the car was sold, I let it go. Now, I have just gotten a call from a reliable friend, who has just informed me that another repair shop in Ohio sometimes does the SAME THING! I was not told the name of the shop involved (I guess there are a few) but I was informed it IS NOT Nelson Lamborghini.. This is BULLSHIT...they are ruining the integrity of the framework as far as I'm concerned. To save a few man hours they are fcuking up people's cars!!!! Not pointing the finger or accusing falsely, I would HIGHLY suggest that any members who have had a clutch replacement at a repair facility in these two states , put your car on a lift and have a qualified mechanic check the cross member to see if it has been cut and rewelded and check to see if your floor has been cut under the console. Hope no one has had this happen to them!!!

which car Phil, hopefully not mine.

 

btw, that really sucks

well that sucks

why would they not tell you that they did this??

a clutch is an "engine out" service

I hope the didnt charge you full price. I can see how someone might do it that way if they couldnt afford it, but to screw the client over is bullshit and worth suing over.

 

also, if they rewelded everything back up, since it was welded to begine with, would it really compromise anything at all?? Unless its a shoty weld job.

Damn! Just mindblowing. I would not spare a single bullet...

That's horrible... Hopefully we can identify who's been doing this and let their names be known!

 

Would it be wise, now, knowing this has been done several times, for future owners to have their cars inspected on a lift for this, beyond just a PPI?

also, if they rewelded everything back up, since it was welded to begine with, would it really compromise anything at all?? Unless its a shoty weld job.

 

Depends on quite a few factors: quality of frame material to begin with, technique of welding, welders expertise, how many times this has been cut/welded, how it was treated after the weld, etc.

 

IMO, it might be acceptable once if there was no other option, but cutting and rewelding in the same location multiple times is bad news.

 

They must be idiots! It is easier to pull the motor and tranny out then cut and weld. You have to get to the upper bell housing bolts which are super close to the firewall. If anyone was stupid enough to do it once I doubt they would do it again. Maybe it's a Ferrari dealer.

If anyone was stupid enough to do it once I doubt they would do it again. Maybe it's a Ferrari dealer.

 

 

Whoa...scary stuff!!!!

I know of a shop in South Florida that was doing this.

if anyone were to cut up my frame, I would cut them up and feed them to alligators

I just can't understand why some people are such Aholes. Do the job how it's supposed to be done, don't improvise, especially in a way you can compromise the integrity of the chassis and thus the safety of the car.

Phil, no disrespect intended on answering your post and making a few points... I was not there when any of this happened, so I am not a witness per se, but I would like to comment because I do know a little bit about the topic, and posts like this can seriously affect the business of repair shops. By making the above post, you are making any shop in NJ or OH that does Lamborghini work "suspect" to anyone who reads this.

 

Why would someone do it? To try and save money maybe. The idea might have come from racecars.. some racecars have access panels for similar reasons.

 

About 4 years ago I talked to the shop in New Jersey that did this.. under no pressure, just under normal conversation we talked about this... I had heard rumors about some shops doing this, so I was asking around (my car needed a clutch service so I was making a lot of calls and talking to a lot of people). He said that he did this job on a customer's car, at the customers request because the customer insisted it would save money. However, in the end, it costed about the same. The shop said that he would not do it again, even at request of a customer... meaning after doing this special request for a customer, it made even less sense because it didn’t save money.

 

Last I knew the above mentioned car (I don’t have the VIN in front of me at the moment) that had this clutch job done in NJ, was owned by an LP member who at one time posted here and there. When I talked to him on another topic this somehow came up (I think he had one of his other Lambos for sale), however he didn’t seem to care too much about the fact that this had happened to the car. So, good for him I guess...or maybe this got him a discount on the car when he bought it. Who knows if he still has the car.

 

I believe the NJ shop said this was only done on one car at his shop, or was there another?

 

Moving on to the shop in Ohio, which shop are you talking about? I know a fair amount about the 3 non-authorized shops in Ohio that do Lamborghini work, and I have never heard of this kind of work being done at any of them (besides knowing the shops fairly well, I know more Ohio Lamborghini owners than anyone....so I get to hear the good and the bad about a lot of what goes on in the state). However, if this is true, I would love to hear from the Lamborghini owner who had this experience at this particular shop in Ohio. Maybe it’s a shop most of us have never heard of? Backyard outfit maybe?

 

The reliable source that cited this about the shop in Ohio, how is this person qualified to make such a statement? Naming this person certainly isn’t necessary, but I am wondering: Did this happen to him? Did it happen to someone he knows? Does he work at that particular shop? Was this service offered to him on his car from that shop?

Moving on to the shop in Ohio, which shop are you talking about? I know a fair amount about the 3 non-authorized shops in Ohio that do Lamborghini work, and I have never heard of this kind of work being done at any of them (besides knowing the shops fairly well, I know more Ohio Lamborghini owners that anyone....so I get to hear the good and the bad about a lot of what goes on in the state). However, if this is true, I would love to hear from the owner for the benefit of others. Maybe its a shop most of us have never heard of? Backyard outfit maybe?

 

I agree with Andrew here on this. If you aren't comfortable posting the shop name feel free to send me a PM.

I know of a shop in South Florida that was doing this.

 

dont even tell me........

I don't think that is the right way to save money....

I got a lot of experience with idiots like that...so i make all by my self...

 

To put out the engine, is not a big deal....It sounds only horribel,like a hearttransplation...

 

For a few years ago, i was on a Diablo Trophy race on the Hockenheimring, Germany ( was the SVR) I got tickets for the pitlane...

I saw one mechanic take out the engine, change the clutch and after 2,5 hour the Diablo starts the race.

 

 

I've been bitting my tougue on this for a couple of years...I had some SHODDY repair work done. NOW, I have discovered thru a Very Reliable source that someone else is doing the same thing, so I'm going to share some shocking news to prevent this from happening to any of the the LP members... Without mentioning the company,or individuals, a couple of years ago I had a clutch replacement on one of my Lamborghinis done at a repair facility in the state of New Jersey... I discovered that when they replaced the clutch...they didn't pull the motor...they CUT the FUCKIN cross member in front of the transmission, took out the seats, cut the floor and took out the transmission thru the cabin of the car.Sad, but true. I went out of my fuckin mind, but since the car was gone, I let it go. Now, I have just gotten a call from a reliable friend, who has just informed me that another repair shop in Ohio sometimes does the SAME THING! I was not told the name of the shop involved (I guess there are a few) but I was informed it IS NOT Nelson Lamborghini.. This is BULLSHIT...they are ruining the integrity of the framework as far as I'm concerned. To save a few man hours they are fcuking up people's cars!!!! Not pointing the finger or accusing falsely, I would HIGHLY suggest that any members who have had a clutch replacement at a repair facility in these two states , put your car on a lift and have a qualified mechanic check the cross member to see if it has been cut and rewelded and check to see if your floor has been cut under the console. If it has, I'd make a bee line to your lawyer's office. Hope no one has had this happen to them!!!

 

I don't think what you're proposing is possible. The amount of work involved with taking the tranny out of the passenger compartment makes doing an engine out look tame in comparison. Usually shops that are cutting corners will cut the crossmember in front of the tranny in order to be able to pull the tranny out the bottom. There is no way anyon me would even consider doing what you're suggesting.

...they CUT the FUCKIN cross member in front of the transmission, took out the seats, cut the floor and took out the transmission thru the cabin of the car.Sad, but true. I went out of my fuckin mind, but since the car was gone, I let it go. Now, I have just gotten a call from a reliable friend, who has just informed me that another repair shop in Ohio sometimes does the SAME THING! I was not told the name of the shop involved (I guess there are a few) but I was informed it IS NOT Nelson Lamborghini.. This is BULLSHIT...they are ruining the integrity of the framework as far as I'm concerned. To save a few man hours they are fcuking up people's cars!!!! Not pointing the finger or accusing falsely, I would HIGHLY suggest that any members who have had a clutch replacement at a repair facility in these two states , put your car on a lift and have a qualified mechanic check the cross member to see if it has been cut and rewelded and check to see if your floor has been cut under the console. If it has, I'd make a bee line to your lawyer's office. Hope no one has had this happen to them!!!

 

 

I don't think what you're proposing is possible. The amount of work involved with taking the tranny out of the passenger compartment makes doing an engine out look tame in comparison. Usually shops that are cutting corners will cut the crossmember in front of the tranny in order to be able to pull the tranny out the bottom. There is no way anyon me would even consider doing what you're suggesting.

 

I was thinking the same thing. out of the bottom of the car would make sense. But it soudns much easier to take the engine out to get to it, then destroying the whole interior and cutting huge openings in the fire wall to rip it out!

Andrew...the mechanic in NEW JERSEY is a lieing mother fucker! The reason he may have stopped doing it is because I threatened to SUE HIS ASS!! The Fuckin BILL WAS OVER $12,000.00 for a clutch job...and some extras..YOU THINK THAT IS CUTTING CORNERS to save money...he is only trying to SAVE HIS ASS!!!!! And wether he took it out the cabin or underneath is immaterial he CUT THE FRAME. If I get any more shit about this I'm going to post his business name!!! Don't tell me what the fcuk happened to my car!I going to search for the repair bill and it clearly shows work that was done by cutting. He better hope the fcuk I don't find it because I'll post it all over the fuckin internet, that lieing fcuk!!!!

I am not going to post the shop in OHIO because it was not personally done to me. My friend knew what was done to my car years ago and contacted me to inform me that another shop was doing the same thing and not to bring anything there in the future. Thats all, I just wanted the members here aware that this practice is going on and that if they had any clutch work done to check and see if they got fucked too. I'm not trying to get in a pissing match over this...it was DONE TO ME WITHOUT MY KNOWLEDGE...now I'm pissed that I let it go and didn't sue the fcuk.

Phil,

 

Before you get so hot and bothered suddenly and start broadcasting invective on the web, don't you think you could have talked to me about the clutch job on your car (three years ago) and given me a chance to explain a few things?

 

You were given the choice between removing the entire engine/transmission unit to service the clutch or to remove just the transmission to service the clutch. If you read your invoice you will see the transmission was removed and not the engine. Read on and you will also be reminded about how many other services were performed that were on the same invoice. The total bill for all the different services was $12,203.00 (not $15,000). The charge for the clutch service alone was $4,783.45 and it included a new pressure plate ( the old pressure plate was junk and could not be reliably rebuilt), new release bearing and new pilot bearing.

 

While we service most Diablo clutches by removing the engine/transmission as a unit, I figured out a less costly way to service the clutch on a Diablo without removing the engine and passed the savings on to the customer. I regularly have customers begging me to find ways to save them some money when it comes time to make repairs on their Lamborghinis. We've installed lower priced after-market shocks, front air-lift systems, Jaguar oil filters and Jaguar distributor caps, after-market exhaust systems, we've done low cost lower timing chain replacements (which don't require disassembling the whole engine), timing chain tensioner modifications, oil pump re-machining (so you don't have to replace the entire engine block) we have clutches rebuilt (with Kevlar lining) instead of replacing them, etc,etc. None of this is kept secret from the owners of the cars and the costs reflect the time and high priced components saved. Anyone requesting genuine Lamborghini parts and service procedures will get them.

 

I've been welding for 40 years and can weld as well as (or better than) the weldors at the Lamborghini factory. I went to a lot of effort to design special brackets so the single, skinny brace under the transmission would be at least as strong as original and remain removable (bolted in place) so that the next clutch service would be even easier. (The gentleman who posted about the 2.5 hour clutch service on a Diablo race car should realize that car was probably modified in a similar manner to ease the job) . I also didn't cut the floor and the transmission came out through the bottom, not through the cabin. I made a few discreet access holes in the transmission tunnel and covered them with aluminum panels which were glued and riveted in place with aerospace insulation on the back side. Why don't we both stick to what we're good at. I won't try my hand at pawn brokering and you leave the mechanical stuff to people like me.

 

The reason you are upset (still) is because I was honest with a potential buyer for your car and told him how the clutch was changed. I never hid the fact from you or anyone else. I did a great job and I'm proud of it. It was not a "chop shop" job! The potential buyer of your car, who apparently was just as knowledgeable about Lamborghini mechanicals as you, panicked, told you he was no longer interested in the car (which is the real reason for your anger) and apparently started making noise about it on the web. If I could have spoken to him again I would have given him an explanation too. At that point I decided it wasn't worth sticking my neck out to save a few people some money on the clutch removal and from then on have done the clutch service only by removing the engine. We still have clutches rebuilt though, which is much cheaper than installing all new replacement parts, and we've had great luck with them. We also offer a push type heavier duty clutch conversion for Countach owners which includes a new aluminum racing master cylinder and racing annular slave cylinder/release bearing. It's far superior to the factory set-up, pedal feel is about the same as (new) stock and none of it comes from Lamborghini.

 

You also apparently forgot about the free pick-up in Mystic Connecticut which isn't exactly next door.

 

I invite anyone who has technical questions about Lamborghini clutch replacement or any other mechanical concern to contact me by phone or email.

 

I'd like to thank the people who seemed unwilling to immediately jump on the band wagon with you and... thank you to a particular Lambo Power member for alerting me to this very slanderous post of yours.

 

Wil de Groot

(908)996-4889

Exoticars USA

Frenchtown, NJ

 

Wil, you have a bad memory....1st of all I did not mention your name, just trying to alert the members of mechanics that were CUTTING THE FRAMEWORK on Lamborghinis without the owners knowledge to cut corners. 2nd of all you NEVER told me you were going to CUT THE CROSSMEMBER out on my car.There is NO FUCKIN WAY, I would have agreed to that!!! 3rd.. the price of just the parts for the clutchwork was @ $2500.00 if I remember correctly, what the hell are you talking about,that the price of the parts and install was in the $4000.00 range. The EXTRA work you did was fix the leak in the front tire rim, put on 4 tires,2 valve cover gaskets, change the fuel filters. Did I bitch when the total was $12203.80 No I paid it.I'm not pissed at the BILL..I'm PISSED on what was done!! This post was not to crusify you, but to alert members to what was going on at some shops...thats all...no one by name, no business names.And the post that claimed I told you to do it to save money is FULL OF SHIT and you know it. Do me a favor, next Lambo owner that gives you PERMISSION to cut their crossmember out and BOLT it back in, post it so we can all see. Whats amazing is I would have thought NO ONE else would do such a thing, but apparently Allen knows of one in Florida and my friend knows of one in Ohio...un fuckin believable!!!!!

About 4 years ago I talked to the shop in New Jersey that did this.. under no pressure, just under normal conversation we talked about this... I had heard rumors about some shops doing this, so I was asking around (my car needed a clutch service so I was making a lot of calls and talking to a lot of people). He said that he did this job on a customer's car, at the customers request because the customer insisted it would save money. However, in the end, it costed about the same. The shop said that he would not do it again, even at request of a customer... Andrew, I hope you realize now that this is a Bullshit post......It wasn't done at the customers request!!!And "That it would never be done again" you were lied to!

As per a request from a LP member, I'm drafting a letter to the engineering department at Lamborghini to see what their opinion is on such repair tactics. I will definately post their reply.