Who can diagnose this problem

a side note, holy crap cheapest SL ive seen yet.

a side note, holy crap cheapest SL ive seen yet.

that is a smoking deal. had i not just bought one i would be all over this.

It has to be the caliper shifting in it's bracket , the caliper bracket shifting/flexing/vibrating or the caliper bracket mounting point flexing/vibrating .

I saw this before when one of my techs , I'm embarassed to say forgot to tighten/install an lower caliper bracket bolt .

It has to be the caliper shifting in it's bracket , the caliper bracket shifting/flexing/vibrating or the caliper bracket mounting point flexing/vibrating .

I saw this before when one of my techs , I'm embarassed to say forgot to tighten/install an lower caliper bracket bolt .

 

What part of the caliper would make such a fine etch line?

What part of the caliper would make such a fine etch line?

 

I'd have to see the caliper assy to tell for sure but my guess is the brake pads and or pad attaching hardware .

The wheel photo shows multiple scratches that probably line up with the pads/hardware also note the caliper is rubbing slightly . I'm not an engineer but I'm fairly certain the 3mm of clearance is not being compromised by expansion as some one had suggested .

It may be normal harmonics causing the scratching and ultimately the wheel to caliper clearance should probably be increased .

I think the Doc is in good hands , the Lambo guys will get it corrected with or without our input .

DoctaM3,

Did you get those rims replaced yet?

I've checked multiple cars at my local dealer.

most of them have those scratches in all varieties and widths. by now i am completely sure that this is caused by stones, and all kind of things that fly around on the roads. we even found a bit of tar pressed into a rim at the end of a scratch, so this piece has been pushed into the rim by the caliper with ever spin until it became so flat that it didn't touch the caliper anymore.

Carbuff,

 

No offense but this is a survey for Superleggera with CCB and regular Gallardo with CCB. If you don't have real life experience in regards to this problem then please keep yourself cool. And if you don't agree with DoctM3's explanation then please keep the arguments on the side unless if you have a solution. I have Porsches with PCCB and please explain to me as to why I don't have the same problem. There are a few bugs and design flaws so please let us work out the problem. Thank you very much for your time and concern.

 

You have CCB. Do you have the scratches on your rims? From all the posts I have seen no you don't so why are you the one trying to lead this campaign. I have put SL thru the paces has hard as the car will go all day long no issues. We have cars on the track no issues we have had cars go to Road and Track for testing and they are as hard as you can be on the cars no issues. I have seen the cars throw rubber clots from hot ass tires on the track and the rubber melts to the inside of the rim I must use a scrapper to remove them they are so melted but no marks on the rims. I have seen Diablos with the same Marks and it was from rocks they did not have a issue with heat expansion but they did get rocks between the caliper and rim. I have had customers that do not drive there cars hard get scratches.

 

There are customers saying that they have seen the rocks trapped there and yet you don't want to believe it is rocks. I can not say 110 % that it is rocks but all good info points that it is.

 

Move on and just enjoy you car if you get scratches then worry about it. If it was from heat expansion some one would have got it hot enough for more then just scratches to happen but there has been know issues.

 

To say you Porsch has never had the issue this is comparing apple and oranges total different car, different brakes, different every thing so it is not relevant to Lamborghini. Most factory rims are made to flow air across the brakes for all we know The Porsh flows from the outside in and a lambo may go from the inside out or vise versa but one my pull more dabree thru. They also are not the same widths so waste of time to compare.

 

With that said carbuff brings good info to LP weather he agrees or disagrees he has the right to give his opinion. I don't own a Lambo at all let alon one with CCBs but you like to hear what I have to say. Well maybe not know because I don't back you clam that it is any thing more then rocks.

 

Just let it go as far as the group issue. If some one thinks its more then just rocks then see your dealer but all info and 10 years of dealing with Lambos only, every day of my life more less I see nothing more then what looks like rocks. I can tell you Lambo draws info from all over the world and if there was or is a issue especially where safety is a concern they will be all over.

So, I think we have LOST focus on the real issue here. Whether the cause is s rock or not, my fundamental question is an issue of SAFETY. I have made not modifications to the car so it is STOCK. The 1-piece Scorpius rims has deep grooves on ALL 4 rims. These are not just superficial scratches, they are grooves. What I am concerned mostly about is rim failure and separation at speed if the grooves are deep enough. It is one thing to have wheel failure and I get injured (bad enough) but worse yet is if I injure someone else. I deal with life and death injuries, esp. brain everyday and trust me I have seen some things that only nightmares are made of. I say that, not for hyperbole, but honestly because I am concerned. I am also no novice at supercars.

 

I now have a dozen Carbon Ceramic Brake cars with this known problem both here an in the US and in Europe which makes me wonder about the "rock theory." Are all rocks symmetrical, because they must be. On the front rims, the scars are identical on both front rims (they are 3 separate, very straight lines as you can see. Why would a rock make 3 sharp lines and be identical on both front rims? on the rear, it is one broad line but it too is symmetrical and not jagged on the both rear rims. Rocks are unlikely to be symmetrical--they would be jagged, intermittent scars as they juggle around until they get dislodged.

 

 

I do appreciate all the ideas and thoughts and the discussion has been pretty healthy (although personal attacks seem pointless to me). So in the end, the question is have is one of RIM INTEGRITY, irrespective of the cause. In any event, this is really the core issue.

 

 

So, I think we have LOST focus on the real issue here. Whether the cause is s rock or not, my fundamental question is an issue of SAFETY. I have made not modifications to the car so it is STOCK. The 1-piece Scorpius rims has deep grooves on ALL 4 rims. These are not just superficial scratches, they are grooves. What I am concerned mostly about is rim failure and separation at speed if the grooves are deep enough. It is one thing to have wheel failure and I get injured (bad enough) but worse yet is if I injure someone else. I deal with life and death injuries, esp. brain everyday and trust me I have seen some things that only nightmares are made of. I say that, not for hyperbole, but honestly because I am concerned. I am also no novice at supercars.

 

I now have a dozen Carbon Ceramic Brake cars with this known problem both here an in the US and in Europe which makes me wonder about the "rock theory." Are all rocks symmetrical, because they must be. On the front rims, the scars are identical on both front rims (they are 3 separate, very straight lines as you can see. Why would a rock make 3 sharp lines and be identical on both front rims? on the rear, it is one broad line but it too is symmetrical and not jagged on the both rear rims. Rocks are unlikely to be symmetrical--they would be jagged, intermittent scars as they juggle around until they get dislodged.

 

 

I do appreciate all the ideas and thoughts and the discussion has been pretty healthy (although personal attacks seem pointless to me). So in the end, the question is have is one of RIM INTEGRITY, irrespective of the cause. In any event, this is really the core issue.

 

Has Lamborghini taken care of you yet?

Completely not related -

The new SS Camaro has Brembo brakes and about 2" gap between the outside of the caliper and the inside of the rim. On those Brembo Calipers, mounted through the pad retainer pins are two pair of roller-bearing mechanism that were clearly put there due to a lawsuit. ;-)

 

Anyway, just saw that and thought about this problem.

 

 

 

Completely not related -

The new SS Camaro has Brembo brakes and about 2" gap between the outside of the caliper and the inside of the rim. On those Brembo Calipers, mounted through the pad retainer pins are two pair of roller-bearing mechanism that were clearly put there due to a lawsuit. ;-)

 

Anyway, just saw that and thought about this problem.

 

Is this completely unrelated, or are are you relating a lawsuit?

And what lawsuit would that be? Are you stating a known fact or your opinion?

 

What is the function of these bearings? I presume it is to make the calipers function better, and nothing related to rocks, which some on this thread fail to recognize is the most likely cause.

 

Since my expertise was called into question further above in the thread, here goes. I have 34 years experience in auto mechanics, which overlaps 12 years automotive accessory design and manufacturing. Working with both domestic, imports, sports, and exotics. I have seen a lot of stuff in my time. Sure would like to know how much experience naysayers like that rude Pokie have.

 

Yes, I am calling all of you out on this problem. Time to lay your cards on the table.

 

If I am wrong, then great. You found a CONTROLABLE solution to the problem, and many wheels will be saved from nasty scoring.

 

I have personally seen this problem on other vehicles. Most due to rocks, and not some scary sinister cryptic wheel or brake caliper defect. Although a fractured pad, broken or bent wear sensor, or broken caliper retainer can cause a score, this is very uncommon, and obvious. Caliper pins slide sideways and can only score the inside face of the wheel. Even when these slip, the caliper cannot significantly derail, unless they fall right out.

 

And FYI. Rocks stuck into calipers cause serious scores on rotors. Just had this happen last fall to one of our cars.

 

And last, when a Lambo expert like jefflambo chimes in, expressing the likelyhood of rocks, you really should listen....

> I have personally seen this problem on other vehicles. Most due to rocks, and not some scary sinister cryptic wheel or brake caliper defect.

 

+1

 

One of my SL wheels has a scar. Starts out, goes around ~1/5th the way, and deepens ever so slightly. Not as drastic as the ones in the pics in this thread. But it's there. And clearly caused by a rock. The caliper has a corresponding impact scar. Shrug. S*** happens. (Mine is not a garage queen. :-)

 

Also, every now and then I see small pieces of rock (~1 mm) stuck on the inside, "glued on" with tiny bits of tar. So yeah, stuff definitely flies in there.

 

Last but not least... yeah, I can hear when I hit lose gravel or an extra dirty patch of road. If you think it's bad for your wheels... just imagine what it does to that gorgeous 4 ft long and 1 ft wide piece of clear coated carbon fiber that covers your drive shaft on the underside of the car! ;-)

 

> Although a fractured pad, broken or bent wear sensor, or broken caliper retainer can cause a score, this is very uncommon, and obvious. Caliper pins slide sideways and can only score the inside face of the wheel. Even when these slip, the caliper cannot significantly derail, unless they fall right out.

 

+1

 

 

Is this completely unrelated, or are are you relating a lawsuit?

And what lawsuit would that be? Are you stating a known fact or your opinion?

 

What is the function of these bearings? I presume it is to make the calipers function better, and nothing related to rocks, which some on this thread fail to recognize is the most likely cause.

 

Since my expertise was called into question further above in the thread, here goes. I have 34 years experience in auto mechanics, which overlaps 12 years automotive accessory design and manufacturing. Working with both domestic, imports, sports, and exotics. I have seen a lot of stuff in my time. Sure would like to know how much experience naysayers like that rude Pokie have.

 

Yes, I am calling all of you out on this problem. Time to lay your cards on the table.

 

If I am wrong, then great. You found a CONTROLABLE solution to the problem, and many wheels will be saved from nasty scoring.

 

I have personally seen this problem on other vehicles. Most due to rocks, and not some scary sinister cryptic wheel or brake caliper defect. Although a fractured pad, broken or bent wear sensor, or broken caliper retainer can cause a score, this is very uncommon, and obvious. Caliper pins slide sideways and can only score the inside face of the wheel. Even when these slip, the caliper cannot significantly derail, unless they fall right out.

 

And FYI. Rocks stuck into calipers cause serious scores on rotors. Just had this happen last fall to one of our cars.

 

And last, when a Lambo expert like jefflambo chimes in, expressing the likelyhood of rocks, you really should listen....

 

I have no idea if there is a lawsuit of any sort, or even if these things are bearings. I don't have any cards in this game! : -)

similar problem with scuds

 

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=287974

this is normal on cars with big calipers,your car is fine.a rock got into it.

 

 

thanks

alex

Anyone ever get a clear answer to this problem? I just noticed my passenger side rear has the same double lines on the inner rim.

Completely not related -

The new SS Camaro has Brembo brakes and about 2" gap between the outside of the caliper and the inside of the rim. On those Brembo Calipers, mounted through the pad retainer pins are two pair of roller-bearing mechanism that were clearly put there due to a lawsuit. ;-)

 

Anyway, just saw that and thought about this problem.

 

Those are there to reduce vibration and noise on the rear brakes. I removed mine safely for more clearance (slicks)

Thanks for the info! Good to know what their function is (er... was).

 

Interesting that this thread is now 1.5 years old. Has there been an "official answer from Lambo on this problem" to the OP (DoctaM3)?

Thanks for the info! Good to know what their function is (er... was).

 

Interesting that this thread is now 1.5 years old. Has there been an "official answer from Lambo on this problem" to the OP (DoctaM3)?

 

I wouldn't expect much from Lambo about this. The fact is that cars with big brakes/calipers will, from time to time, have debris/rocks stuck in between. Last week I had my 560 at a trackday at NJMP (which is well known to have lots of tiny pebbles around the track), and FIRST session out I hear some 'screeching' - I knew immediately something was stuck in between the rim/caliper. I wiggled the car back and forth, and it popped out....Later on in the pits, I checked the rim, and sure enough a small groove in the rim...No big deal, these things happen.

 

Anyone that thinks the caliper or pad is hitting the rim is crazy.

I wouldn't expect much from Lambo about this. The fact is that cars with big brakes/calipers will, from time to time, have debris/rocks stuck in between. Last week I had my 560 at a trackday at NJMP (which is well known to have lots of tiny pebbles around the track), and FIRST session out I hear some 'screeching' - I knew immediately something was stuck in between the rim/caliper. I wiggled the car back and forth, and it popped out....Later on in the pits, I checked the rim, and sure enough a small groove in the rim...No big deal, these things happen.

 

Anyone that thinks the caliper or pad is hitting the rim is crazy.

 

I agree with you, nothing is moving that much. The wheels would have to be "D" shaped to hit! It's only logical to think that debris got jammed in between the wheel and brake caliper.

The strange thing is that mine has the identical two marks as one of the pictures above... Highly coincidental?

Also, the space between my factory RS6 wheel and brake caliper is about 3 pieces of paper. The car has 60K miles and a daily driver through all of the winter crap. NO marks!

 

I agree with you, nothing is moving that much. The wheels would have to be "D" shaped to hit! It's only logical to think that debris got jammed in between the wheel and brake caliper.

The strange thing is that mine has the identical two marks as one of the pictures above... Highly coincidental?

Also, the space between my factory RS6 wheel and brake caliper is about 3 pieces of paper. The car has 60K miles and a daily driver through all of the winter crap. NO marks!

 

 

Hmmm.. RS6 fab daily driver... I had an old (2004) Avant Plus, just saving up now for a new (or nearly new, as they've just discountinued the V10) one....