Murcielago PPI...definitely worth the money!

I've been looking for an early 6-speed manual Murcielago to replace my previous '04 Gallardo that I sold at the end of last summer after six years of blissful ownership. I recently came to terms with a private seller to purchase this '03 Verde Ithica Murcielago coupe:

 

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/ve...60259&Log=0

 

I had actually tried to buy this car when it for sale at San Francisco Sports Cars, only to be ultimately told that the car was sold. When it popped up again on AutoTrader soon thereafter, I thought I'd try again. After being reassured that the car had absolutely no mechanical or cosmetic issues, the owner and I came to terms, and a PPI was performed yesterday at BMCD in San Francisco.

 

The good news from the PPI was that the car is indeed in excellent cosmetic condition...the bad news was that the car appears to have significant issues mechanically. The exact words from the PPI tech's report:

 

* The tires are worn very heavily on the inner edges & the side walls are beginning to separate.

* Bank 1 head gasket is leaking oil

* The front suspension shocks are leaking oil

* The lifting system high pressure oil line is leaking oil

* The instrument cluster buttons are starting to get the common Ferrari / Lamborghini stickiness to them

 

Total estimated cost to address those items? $21k. Obviously some of those items could likely be fixed for less than what a factory dealership would charge, but when your agreed purchase price is based on an issue free car, it's a deal-breaker.

 

I've always had PPIs performed on every exotic I've purchased; this is the first one that has ever failed. I can't imagine how disappointed I would have been if I hadn't performed one on this car. Needless to say, I'm not buying this one, and as they say, the search goes on...

I've paid for 3 PPI's on cars I didn't buy because of them. WORTH EVERY PENNY.

I looked at that car last year, July '13, when it was with SFSCs.. I had an initial conversation with them and then was never able to get a human on the phone again. Multiple calls, E-mails gone unanswered. I know that it failed multiple PPI's when they were trying to sell it. Price was down to $130K on their site before it was pulled. Glad you and I didn't get stuck with it.. lol. Would NEVER do business with San Francisco Sports Cars... Just my .02. Oh, and best of luck in your continued search - VI, 6 speed was my unicorn...

Those are all pretty minor issues, honestly. Most are typical of the model and age. Best of luck with your search.

I looked at that car last year, July '13, when it was with SFSCs.. I had an initial conversation with them and then was never able to get a human on the phone again. Multiple calls, E-mails gone unanswered. I know that it failed multiple PPI's when they were trying to sell it. Price was down to $130K on their site before it was pulled. Glad you and I didn't get stuck with it.. lol. Would NEVER do business with San Francisco Sports Cars... Just my .02. Oh, and best of luck in your continued search - VI, 6 speed was my unicorn...

Yeah, I wasn't going to get into that, but that completely mirrors my experience with San Francisco Sports Cars as well. I made three offers on this car to them over a period of six months. I never heard back on the first two. On the last offer, they said no, but said they needed $125k for the car. I agreed on that price pending a PPI. Then they told me the car was already sold. All of this happened over a span of 20 minutes. They also assured me the car was in perfect mechanical/cosmetic condition, and passed their internal PPI with flying colors. I would definitely be wary of dealing with them again.

Yeah. For an EARLY VI 6MT Car I think its worth the price and the 21k to fix it. You will NOT find that unicorn again. Obviously it is easy for me to say that since it isn't my money....

 

Was the seller willing to budge on price at all? If you get him down a 10k and end up "splitting" the cost of the issues that way you are in your unicorn for 160k. Sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Those are all pretty minor issues, honestly. Most are typical of the model and age. Best of luck with your search.

I agree with this (although the tech did tell me that the leak amounts were significant); the bigger issue was simply that our agreed upon purchase price was based on the car not needing costly repairs.

Yeah. For an EARLY VI 6MT Car I think its worth the price and the 21k to fix it. You will NOT find that unicorn again. Obviously it is easy for me to say that since it isn't my money....

 

Was the seller willing to budge on price at all? If you get him down a 10k and end up "splitting" the cost of the issues that way you are in your unicorn for 160k. Sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Our agreed upon purchase price was $135k for the car with only stock wheels and tires. I think I would be concerned that being into the car for $160k (repairs plus Hercules Roadster wheels) would be an excessive price for an '03. Is a sorted '03 Verde Ithica Murcielago really worth $160k?

Our agreed upon purchase price was $135k for the car with only stock wheels and tires. I think I would be concerned that being into the car for $160k (repairs plus Hercules Roadster wheels) would be an excessive price for an '03. Is a sorted '03 Verde Ithica Murcielago really worth $160k?

 

God no, $140 is full retail.

God no, $140 is full retail.

 

For a VI with a 6MT?

Our agreed upon purchase price was $135k for the car with only stock wheels and tires. I think I would be concerned that being into the car for $160k (repairs plus Hercules Roadster wheels) would be an excessive price for an '03. Is a sorted '03 Verde Ithica Murcielago really worth $160k?

 

$160k, probably not. I think it would pull $140k all day though.

 

Did you look at getting the repairs done by a non-dealer? Head gasket will be a bitch but the rest sounds relatively non-invasive to repair.

 

If you're into the car for $140k repaired then that wouldn't be a bad deal IMO. Maybe you and the owner can come to something reasonable. I mean, this is a pretty fcuking specific car you're after and you might have to make some considerations on that point, if color is super important.

Those are all pretty minor issues, honestly. Most are typical of the model and age. Best of luck with your search.

I think a head gasket leak is tough to say "minor".. it is a very expensive repair..

 

Now, if it is just seeping a little bit and caky without dripping on the ground.. that is probably nothing to be too concerned about. If that is the case the PPI inspector would hopefully note it differently.

 

The suspension issue isn't too big of a deal.

 

The tires aren't wearing normal so a good alignment is needed

 

the buttons are what they are. probably a climate issue. Mine didnt do that and it was a 2002 with 32500 miles.

 

 

$160k, probably not. I think it would pull $140k all day though.

 

Did you look at getting the repairs done by a non-dealer? Head gasket will be a bitch but the rest sounds relatively non-invasive to repair.

 

If you're into the car for $140k repaired then that wouldn't be a bad deal IMO. Maybe you and the owner can come to something reasonable. I mean, this is a pretty fcuking specific car you're after and you might have to make some considerations on that point, if color is super important.

 

The owner's response after seeing the PPI results was that the car was being sold "as-is", and he would not further negotiate on the price as a result of the PPI. Given that, I was not willing to pursue the car further (not to mention my general concern that the car is being misrepresented). But I agree that the repairs could likely be performed for less at an independent. That said, I live in Bend, Oregon, and my local independent (who has done all the service on my Porsche/Gallardo/Scuderia/R8/etc. over the last eight years) recommended getting any engine-out work done by a more experienced shop, given the difficulty of removing a Murcielago engine. The nearest actual factory-authorized Lamborghini service center is about 250 miles away in Seattle.

 

While I do love Verde Ithica, I would be fine with an Arancio Atlas car as well. My core goal with this purchase was to find a V12 Lamborghini in an attractive color that I could own for a couple of years with minimal depreciation until Aventador depreciation became more manageable.

 

I think a head gasket leak is tough to say "minor".. it is a very expensive repair..

 

Now, if it is just seeping a little bit and caky without dripping on the ground.. that is probably nothing to be too concerned about. If that is the case the PPI inspector would hopefully note it differently.

 

The tech indicated that oil was running out along the side of the engine and onto the ground.

 

Has anyone had a PPI MISS a major problem only to be discovered upon delivery or later?

Never have seen the car or know it first hand..BUT my first "Red flag" would be those after market wheels and tires. They were NOT OEM and NOT designed for the car, so I would not be surprised on the un-even tire wear....probably through them on the car and never bothered with a REAL AWD 4 way alignment. KEEP in mind however, tires are a maintaince issue and good or not, they will need replacing down the road soo0ner or later. The buttons, no big deal, you can replace those buttons and face for under $4000 bucks, again it is a 11 plus year old car...these things will happen. The leak, again, it is NOT an engine out service..it can bee corrected...

 

I am concerned with a $21K quote from BMCD..I think we are missing something here..because unless that quote INCLUDE NEW OEM wheels/tires/buttons/ major engine out service...the things you described int he PPI can NEVER COME to $21K EVEN with an overpriced "Authorized" Shop. I would like to see the written estimate and cost for what work is being done...

 

As far as Lambo Dealer in Seattle..we as of late NOW service all Lambos and have employed the Tech that worked for the "Authorized" Dealer here in Seattle for many years...we just do it a reasonable and fair price...so you have another choice for the PNW.

 

From what you say...I see $2200 in new tires, $250 in a 4way alignment and balance, no cost for wheels as you said they had OEM wheels in the deal, $500 for the buttons, $3k tops for the leaking gasket..WHICH included fresh fluids as you would drain the car when you did it. So then you know have a car with NEW tires, NEW buttons, NEW gasket and fluids..and your still around $140K...FOR A 6 speed VI car..YEP worth it to me...IMO.

 

Sorry I JUST DONT see a $21K bill for you have described.

 

But at the end of the day, its your car and your money to pay for it, so you have to do what makes you right and comfy....

OP. I'd sent Roy your PPI and have him give it the once over.

I agree, nothing out of the ordinary considering the age of the car, negotiate on the price do the repairs and enjoy.

I agree i think all of the above mentioned are minor issues particularly if the car is cosmetically excellent. Hell i didnt know they even made a Verde that early. When i bought my first Murci i knew the shocks were leaking which is a common problem. I had them pulled and sent to have rebuilt better than new. It cost me $800 for rebuilt and literally 2-3 hours of labor. My mechanic said it is the easiest shock he has ever taken out and put back. They are literally held by couple of bolts top and bottom and i had the car for another 8 months without any issues. As Roy mentioned tires are regular maint. item and buttons wearing out i personally would not even spend $4k to replace. The head gasket also is not engine out and is expected with a car that was built in 2002.

I think all 6 spd Murcis are going to go up.. They are the last v12 manual available in a 6spd manual.

I think all 6 spd Murcis are going to go up.. They are the last v12 manual available in a 6spd manual.

 

I agree. But not yet. They are in no mans land at the moment. I reckon it will be several years in to the Aventador replacement before movement starts to happen.

 

Never have seen the car or know it first hand..BUT my first "Red flag" would be those after market wheels and tires. They were NOT OEM and NOT designed for the car, so I would not be surprised on the un-even tire wear....probably through them on the car and never bothered with a REAL AWD 4 way alignment. KEEP in mind however, tires are a maintaince issue and good or not, they will need replacing down the road soo0ner or later. The buttons, no big deal, you can replace those buttons and face for under $4000 bucks, again it is a 11 plus year old car...these things will happen. The leak, again, it is NOT an engine out service..it can bee corrected...

 

I am concerned with a $21K quote from BMCD..I think we are missing something here..because unless that quote INCLUDE NEW OEM wheels/tires/buttons/ major engine out service...the things you described int he PPI can NEVER COME to $21K EVEN with an overpriced "Authorized" Shop. I would like to see the written estimate and cost for what work is being done...

 

As far as Lambo Dealer in Seattle..we as of late NOW service all Lambos and have employed the Tech that worked for the "Authorized" Dealer here in Seattle for many years...we just do it a reasonable and fair price...so you have another choice for the PNW.

 

From what you say...I see $2200 in new tires, $250 in a 4way alignment and balance, no cost for wheels as you said they had OEM wheels in the deal, $500 for the buttons, $3k tops for the leaking gasket..WHICH included fresh fluids as you would drain the car when you did it. So then you know have a car with NEW tires, NEW buttons, NEW gasket and fluids..and your still around $140K...FOR A 6 speed VI car..YEP worth it to me...IMO.

 

Sorry I JUST DONT see a $21K bill for you have described.

 

But at the end of the day, its your car and your money to pay for it, so you have to do what makes you right and comfy....

 

Thanks for your insight Roy. I've attached the repair estimate from BMCD; total is $20,034.90 (I confess I rounded this up to $21k).

Estimate_of_repairs_____ZA9BC10U43LA12365.pdf

Thanks for your insight Roy. I've attached the repair estimate from BMCD; total is $20,034.90 (I confess I rounded this up to $21k).

 

 

YOWZA! Those are some pricey shocks!

Thanks for your insight Roy. I've attached the repair estimate from BMCD; total is $20,034.90 (I confess I rounded this up to $21k).

 

 

 

Yeah, i think reasonably you can eliminate 80% of that bill lol. As i mentioned with the recommendation of another owner here i sent the shocks to my first Murci to FJB LTD www.fjbltd.com and Jeff there rebuilt both shocks better than new for $800. F**k spending $10k lol. The buttons are personal whether you want them replaced or not. And i think any reputable shop can change one bank gasket for way less than $6k.

You owe us all rides when you buy this and have Roy do the fixes for less then 145k!!!