The WW3 thread

Nothing but strong rhetoric will come of this.

Its not exactly a light situation.

A Russian Su-24 plane was shot down this morning by a Turkish Air Force F-16. Turkey claims that the plane encroached Turkish airspace but the pilots are alive.

Local rebels claim that they shot the pilots dead.

 

Putin says it is a "stab in the back" committed by "accomplices of terrorists". It has been half a century since a NATO plane has downed a Russian plane.

 

A Russian soldier has been killed in the search for the pilots of the downed jet in Syria, the Russian military says

 

This shit is going to go pop.

 

It is interesting how historically, people often never see the major wars coming and then BOOM! they happen and then everyone wonders afterwards how in the hell nobody saw it coming.

 

Gents.

 

Just a note. We have to shut a lot of these threads down due to militant and mentalist view points. What I would like to see is a fact driven discussion and one where we stay on point. Healthy discussion is good and I am sure a lot of us are capable of this - not including wheels in this.

 

I am capable of healthy discussion. Yes I have a bad habit of sometimes veering off-topic, but I am going to try and make sure not to do that from now on.

Everyone is threatened by this system hi or low. We have almost every platform in the inventory in the region. Helos in flight would be in the clubbing baby seals category. But as soon as one of our guys gets spiked (a targeting radar emission) by it, it'll turn into an international incident, everyone's going to freak out, and Obama will be on the phone with Putin. They can deploy this thing, but the only way the Russians can pull this off is to make zero mistakes with it. It'd be like Jesse Ventura rolling into Walmart with a mini-gun just because your state has an open carry law.

 

Hopefully Putin will emphasize to the Russian military to be extra careful. Although if/when it happens, I do not think much would come of it from the U.S. I have read some say that the Pentagon is probably actually very interested in these Russian actions of striking the terrorists and I'd assume seeing this missile system in action too in that it shows the U.S. military Russia's actual capabilities.

Everyone is threatened by this system hi or low. We have almost every platform in the inventory in the region. Helos in flight would be in the clubbing baby seals category. But as soon as one of our guys gets spiked (a targeting radar emission) by it, it'll turn into an international incident, everyone's going to freak out, and Obama will be on the phone with Putin. They can deploy this thing, but the only way the Russians can pull this off is to make zero mistakes with it. It'd be like Jesse Ventura rolling into Walmart with a mini-gun just because your state has an open carry law.

Are the F22s capable of carrying any anti radiation missiles a la the wild weasel ops? Let someone else get painted that doesn't seem like a threat (say a big old cargo plane) and then the F22 hits it out of nowhere.

Hopefully Putin will emphasize to the Russian military to be extra careful. Although if/when it happens, I do not think much would come of it from the U.S. I have read some say that the Pentagon is probably actually very interested in these Russian actions of striking the terrorists and I'd assume seeing this missile system in action too in that it shows the U.S. military Russia's actual capabilities.

Putin gave a BUK system to the rebels in Ukraine and let them shoot down a passenger plane carrying an American citizen. I am sure he told them to be extra careful...to make sure they hit the target when the launch.

Putin gave a BUK system to the rebels in Ukraine and let them shoot down a passenger plane carrying an American citizen. I am sure he told them to be extra careful...to make sure they hit the target when the launch.

 

Shooting down a plane with am American citizen though I would think doesn't carry the same weight compared to shooting down an American military aircraft (or American aircraft period). Knowingly shooting down an American aircraft would be an act of war I believe.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-25/m...rkeys-president

I smirked for Jesse Ventura with Minigun - very fitting parable.

 

"It is interesting how historically, people often never see the major wars coming and then BOOM!"

 

I have been thinking this same exact thing for a couple of weeks now. When looked at afterwards people are more sage and can say that all the elements of the soup were there and then somebody lighted a match.

 

Now we certainly have lot of cabbages for really big soup and matches have been lighted in accelerating order lately. It only needs someone to open the gas properly and flames can or will be allover again.

 

Sadly that Jesse Ventura is more prone to accidentally lit up his minigun in the market, if there is war zone other side of the road and he goes daily there to blast that thing.

Are the F22s capable of carrying any anti radiation missiles a la the wild weasel ops? Let someone else get painted that doesn't seem like a threat (say a big old cargo plane) and then the F22 hits it out of nowhere.

The Vipers and Hornets/Growlers are HARM shooters. The Raptors are bomb droppers when called upon. In general, the F-16CJ is the go-to dedicated hard-kill air defense suppression platform if in theater, whereas the EA-18G brings the jamming angle. But everything is situation-dependent. I can't really say how we would go about killing an SA-21, but just say that there is more than one way on the table. No doubt it's a great system and nullifies Turkey's capabilities, but in a shooting war with the US, checkmate would still be several steps away. If I were Russia, I would have done the same thing deploying the big SAM. Culturally speaking, I doubt the Turks play as much chess as the Russians do.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34976537

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34976537

 

 

 

I'm sure the IDF is thrilled. I wonder if it can interfere with Iron Dome? That would be a BIG problem for Israel.

 

The link above has this diagram

 

 

At this moment I cannot forsee a reason for them to point the long range surveillance in that direction. But worth sticking a pin in the topic for now.

No need to worry...Russia is busy eliminating ISIS/ISIL. They don't have time for bs.

No need to worry...Russia is busy eliminating ISIS/ISIL. They don't have time for bs.

"raincheck" - Putin, probably

If we the US didn't waste time trying to knock out Assad

we would have defeated ISI/ISIL a long time ago.

If we the US didn't waste time trying to knock out Assad

we would have defeated ISI/ISIL a long time ago.

 

 

waste time.....more like Turkey and allies helping ISIS.

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-12-02/r...urkey-oil-trade

waste time.....more like Turkey and allies helping ISIS.

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-12-02/r...urkey-oil-trade

We didn't believe you the first time you posted that link. I for one don't believe a word that comes out of Putins mouth.

waste time.....more like Turkey and allies helping ISIS.

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-12-02/r...urkey-oil-trade

 

It's a twisted web of deception across all levels with this. I have more faith in Putin than I do our leaders for being honest and a genuine leader. And that's despite all his (Putin's) faults

We didn't believe you the first time you posted that link. I for one don't believe a word that comes out of Putins mouth.

 

so must be amazing russian airforce cause they are wreaking havoc on isis but we couldn't do it.for past 2 years....hmm....you been drinking a lot of coolaid...oh i forgot our leaders never ever lie...

 

we found all those wmds in Iraq too....

Okay fcuk the Turkey. This is ridiculous and not really suitable to the topic, yet very suitable to this actual topic.

 

Someone did this picture where president Erdogan (left) and J.R.R. Tolkiens Gollum (right), are next to each others.

 

That guy might now face up to 4 years in prison by BBC: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34979249

Turkey has turned into a quasi dictatorship under the rule of erdogan and putin is his main role model. Those two deserve each other.

Erdogan is also using this to portray himself as a strong international ruler and the unyiedling protector of all turks.

He wants to turn turkeys parliamentary system into a presidential so that he can continue ruling.

For that he needs a positive public referendum as he does not have enough votes in parliamant to change the constitution.

So he shoots down a russian jet and keeps serving strong rethoric.

You don't have to believe what Putin or any other world leader says, they all lie or tell the truth when it suits them. In this case, there is a well documented connection between isis/rebel elements in Syria/Iraq and Turks. The way isis finances itself is well known and it has been documented by westerners, and russians alike. They earn hundreds of millions from trafficking oil, this is not some low level operation, don't be naive! In order for an illegal trade of this magnitude to exist it needs high level support. The oil itself is a high volume product, you can't traffic it like drugs, it takes up space. There will be hundreds of tankers crossing borders, please don't tell me border authorities would not notice higher oil tanker traffic coming through! Especially from Syria or Iraq. This kind of operation would be highly visible. Russian media published pictures of blown up oil tankers, or others waiting in line to cross the border, normally I'm highly skeptical of russian media but there have been so many, I doubt they actually faked them. There are people or groups in Turkey who are profiting, supporting and enabling this illegal trade, it's pretty clear to everyone. The reason many western leaders haven't discussed this openly is because they need Turkey to help stem the flow of refugees. Everyone is kissing Erdogan's ass these days. It shows how pathetic and weak western politicians have become.

 

As to the accusations of the Russian gvt that Erdogan's son is directly profiting from the isis oil trade... I'm not so sure. However the man runs Turkeys largest energy company so it's plausible. They said they'd provide proof later this week.

 

Imo Turkey's NATO membership should be reviewed. Turkey is no longer a democracy, or even a secular country, it has chosen a different path. It is now run by a borderline dictator with an ego so fragile that he can't even seem to take a joke anymore, drunk on power and with sky high ambitions that far exceed his capabilities. It is pretty clear that jet posed no threat to Turkey. It did however pose a threat to ethnic turkish rebels in Syria. They've complained a dozen times to the Russians about this and they were ignored so when they had a pretext, they didn't hesitate to strike back. That imo should not be acceptable, they are abusing their Nato membership, and using it for their own agenda. That's not what NATO is about. The assholes the turks were trying to protect comitted a war crime by shooting the unlucky pilot as he parachuted.

 

No one in the west dares criticize Erdogan these days, seems everyone thinks they need him. I say they don't. The current situation with the refugees and Isis is simply the consequence of our leaders stupidity, short sightedness/lack of vision, and the US's disastrous foreign policy under the current administration. Hopefully Americans get their heads out of their asses and vote a more responsible president in 2016. The damage has been done though... Nothing good came out of this whole 'democracy' and 'freedom' bullshit that rained over the middle east in the past few years. Noble as that goal may be, it can't be forced or applied overnight indiscriminately.

Weather forcast for Syria for the end of the week.

 

Cloudy with a chance of rockets.

 

The Westminster here has voted in favour of sending our old Tornado's to Syria and commence airstrikes.

 

Why we use such an old plane http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-33772093

Due to missiles we use can use there have been no civilian casualties in the air-strikes in Iraq against ISIS. Our new typhoon cannot launch the Brimstone missile.