So I know we're not supposed to talk politics - Presidential Election - Poll

and really- this is all just personal drama that I have dealt with.

 

 

At the end of the day- a gallon of milk costs us the same as you, TWC wants $100 for their garbage internet and I have no other option in my subdivision, the restaurant we ate at last night charged me $30 for the shittiest salmon I have ever had in my life... and now my wife wants a new purse...

 

 

None of this is worth a drop of piss in the grand scheme that is we have a horrifying situation with our government.

 

This is infuriating.. lol.

 

 

The problem with this is that the middle class pretty much live at the cost of living. So by telling me (because I, apparently can reach up at touch the bottom of the upper class with my hand) that I have to pay a little more because the upper class shouldn't.. makes my blood boil.

 

 

I'll add that I am content paying what I pay in taxes. No gripes. But the 25% or so that we pay out is a much bigger chunk of my "cost of living" than it is for someone making $250k+ a year. The unfortunate reality for this is that if I want to pay for my kids to go to college and take the fam on vacations, I really don't have much left over. THis is why you see me buying scraps of old cars to piece together my Diablo. Sure= you'll say work harder, spend less.. and rightfully so. I say no, that's crap. I work to live. I work to support my family. So when someone who makes $250k/yr+ pays a similar percentage in taxes or for healthcare- it doesn't add up because the "left over" for them can actually be saved, invested.. they can actually go on vacations.. have huge homes..

 

 

I know I'm arguing to the wrong crowd here, but the grand point I am trying to make is that an extra $5k/yr out of my upper middle class pocket is proportionally equivalent to an extra $20 out of some other people's pocket. And THAT is the problem. It;s not that I won't pay that extra $5k.. I think that the taxes should be based on cost of real living vs. income.. not just a percentage of net income.

 

Someone will claim that doing it my proposed way kills incentive. I always respond to that = For who? What we have now is killing incentive for the people who are actually doing the work. *edited to add... and those people doing the work are all fighting over the same nickel. It's the proverbial carrot dangling in front of the donkey.. keep pushing.. we will throw you a $0.25 raise.. meanwhile- boss's buddy walks in the door and gets an office and big paycheck.. I left an absolute shithole of a company for this crap (Bureau Veritas- and I hope one of the higher-ups are a member and reading) where they seem to actively seek out the biggest imbecile= and hand him the keys to the car, tell him to drive. Meanwhile, I'm making a real impact as an entry level engineer (the only actual engineer in my division, despite several other titled engineers).... solving real problems. Blahh. enough about that place..

 

I hate getting into these type of discussions but you seem like a very decent guy and you might be able to take it

 

I want to give you a bit of advice which may help you, it might sound harsh and I am sure you won't really like it.

 

It is you that it is to blame for your situation nobody else, it is always us the individuals, you live in a free society I assume you are an able individual, by your own admission you work hard, if you don't like the situation you are in GET OUT OF IT or aim to take the position of your asshole boss.

 

Also, change your attitude, it is wrong to assume the physical work is the only work which actually means work, it is not, the boss that you are blaming (maybe yours is useless) is what's needed to steer the ship, his work is more important in the big scheme of things because without his work yours wouldn't probably exist or wouldn't be needed.

 

You are sort of saying "I work to survive not live to work" no idea why you are complaining because that's exactly what you are doing, surviving. You want the $250k earn you have to go for it but that will come with a host of other obstacles and challenges, also when and if you will get there you will be bitching about the $500k earner because his cars are newer and his kids are going to better schools and his holidays are further away, that's how life is.

 

Do you know how much I work? I've been working nonstop for the last 2.5 years, that's without a holiday (my wife and kids went I stayed back to work), working most Saturdays and Sundays, I generally work at least 12 hours a day, I am sure some of the guys who work for me doing physical work think ohh what he does is so easy, NO IT ISN'T, what I do it's so God damn hard that none of them could do it, if they could they would do it themselves.

Do you hear me complaining? The answer is no, if I fail it's on me if I make it it's on me, that's how I see it, working this hard is my fault, I can work less but then I have to accept the consequences that action will bring and at this stage I don't like those consequences so I keep working, it also helps that I absolutely LOVE what I am doing.

 

You thought somebody will tell you to work harder, I tell you to work smarter and if you don't want or you aren't capable or you simply don't have the guts then it is what it is, you will have to accept your situation.

 

Making money is so damn easy it is extremely easy but requires a LOT of sacrifices, hard work and determination and some don't want to do it I say that is absolutely fine but then you must accept the consequences of your actions.

 

Please don't see this as an attack because it is not I actually believe you are a very good decent hard working guy, I see people with your attitude all the time, people with huge potential who "settled" for comfort but are still slightly bitter about the "injustice" they have to suffer, the answer is you have to go get it don't wait for someone to hand it to you because it won't happen, it's human nature you are fighting with here, the minute you think nobody owes you anything you will feel like a free man!

 

Once again I am only trying to help

Right?

 

 

I mean- we're all being played. There is this preconceived notion that it can't change, we cannot eliminate the waste, we have to do it like this for this reason or that. It's all garbage. We can all do better with this and to each other. If we want any real long term stability then we must find a way to do better. It may actually mean that the "haves" need to take just a tiny bit less from the pot than they currently do. I know that's not a popular statement on a Lamborghini forum, but its a real thing. I am not a "have", more of a "have a small bit" and if I can see the validity of that when I barely have.. why can't those who really have?

 

Flame suit zipped up...

 

I think you are falling into another Leftist trap of thinking. You say the "haves" may need to "take" less from the "pot." That is not how the economy works. There is no "pot" that contains all the money and wealth of society that then gets distributed out to people, with those who have more meaning others must have less. Wealth is created in society. Those who have more have it by being more productive and simply creating more than others.

 

It would make a lot more sense to you if you were standing in our shoes. I'll explain= when someone works for a LARGE company and has a direct influence over global profits and growth, yet every year MIGHT grow by 3% via raise, MIGHT get a 2% bonus= I say its crap. SO= I left. It's not enough. I cannot sit and be the only one doing the quality work they expect of everyone, and take a similar paycheck home as the guy/girl who cannot write a complete sentence in an email response to a client.

 

Now I'm in a much better position elsewhere- more interesting, have even MORE to do with yearly profit - but it's still not enough but for different reasons.. I won't go too deep into reasons why but for starters= when the profit on a single project I developed last year (of probably 20+ projects) is twice what they paid me last year, It's not enough. Not when there are so few people doing what I do. And it's not that I'm being greedy.. I'm not looking for an additional $50k/year.. just a bit of a bump based on the performance. And yes, in a few years it will be not enough again...

 

 

Company cannot DOUBLE revenue from 15' to 16' and expect me to happily sit with a 3% raise and $1k bonus..

 

But that is how market capitalism works. You are not paid what you "think" you should be paid so much as what the market determines you are paid based on supply and demand. The profits belong to the owners of the company, as they are the ones risking their capital in the enterprise. You and they both engage in a trade, i.e. "You work for me, I'll pay you X amount."

 

You could maybe go to your bosses and say to them what you're saying here, maybe they would give you a raise, I don't know how that works...?

What happened to our wheels post filter?! On a more serious note...

 

Wheels post filter?

kmb58 can I ask your view on a comment you've made with a very simple question?

 

You said your company can not DOUBLE its revenue in 12 months and expect you to be happy with 3% raise + $1k bonus, what if during the same period your company LOST money?

 

Would you at the same rate (3% +1k) bring money from home and hand it back to them in order to help with the loses?

Wheels= Valid point. I'm working on that. I have said it and shown that I'm not content where I am and that I am willing to do what ever is needed for more.

 

 

It's rather hard to get a true sense of what someone is saying via txt.. so please, I hope no one reads into these posts the wrong way.

 

 

 

 

Fortis= great posts. No offense taken at all and all very valid points.

 

 

The truth is that we have ate our share of shit and some you could blame on "the ball took a bad bounce" and yet other you could blame on poorly run company and opportunities that should be due, not coming along. I think your words (some of you) are a bit inspiring to be honest. You won't change my view that the more wealthy people out there could do a little more for those who are honestly trying to do better but have been dealt a shit hand.. BUT-- your words do kind of inspire me.

 

 

 

kmb58 can I ask your view on a comment you've made with a very simple question?

 

You said your company can not DOUBLE its revenue in 12 months and expect you to be happy with 3% raise + $1k bonus, what if during the same period your company LOST money?

 

Would you at the same rate (3% +1k) bring money from home and hand it back to them in order to help with the loses?

 

 

NO, I sure wouldn't. However, I'd also not be surprised if jobs were cut due to the losses. Hopefully, for the poorer performing personnel. OR something that has happened to me and continues to happen to my wife= when the revenue is down and management feels that they won't make their monthly goal, all of the sudden overtime work is mandatory. Overtime does not pay a penny more for jobs like ours so essentially, yea- that is like handing money back to the company.

 

And furthermore- it's never happened to me, but in the history of the world, somewhere out there a company told their people that due to losses, they have to take a cut in pay.

Wheels= Valid point. I'm working on that. I have said it and shown that I'm not content where I am and that I am willing to do what ever is needed for more.

 

 

It's rather hard to get a true sense of what someone is saying via txt.. so please, I hope no one reads into these posts the wrong way.

 

 

 

 

Fortis= great posts. No offense taken at all and all very valid points.

 

 

The truth is that we have ate our share of shit and some you could blame on "the ball took a bad bounce" and yet other you could blame on poorly run company and opportunities that should be due, not coming along. I think your words (some of you) are a bit inspiring to be honest. You won't change my view that the more wealthy people out there could do a little more for those who are honestly trying to do better but have been dealt a shit hand.. BUT-- your words do kind of inspire me.

 

Thank you, I came from a very crappy situation myself and I LOVE to help but real advice can come on as harsh and often misconstrued and because of that often I don't want to offer it, I don't want to upset or insult people in particular if they haven't been nasty to me.

 

I personally think it's in ones attitude, most of us have it but the greater majority don't have the guts to go for it sometimes even the best of us get frustrated and look for a bit of an excuse but the fact of the matter doesn't really change.

 

The only thing I can say to you and everyone else is find happiness in whatever you do, always look at the positives in your life and be greatful for them, if you want more and you don't want to destabilize what you have start working on the side if you need help don't be ashamed to ask for it, if you think you are worth more because you bring more to the table go and talk to your superiors about it most will like if you show that you have some guts and determination.

 

 

 

 

 

 

NO, I sure wouldn't. However, I'd also not be surprised if jobs were cut due to the losses. Hopefully, for the poorer performing personnel. OR something that has happened to me and continues to happen to my wife= when the revenue is down and management feels that they won't make their monthly goal, all of the sudden overtime work is mandatory. Overtime does not pay a penny more for jobs like ours so essentially, yea- that is like handing money back to the company.

 

And furthermore- it's never happened to me, but in the history of the world, somewhere out there a company told their people that due to losses, they have to take a cut in pay.

 

I expected that answer, the thing is, we are talking about privately owned businesses, they have a set of rules to abide by and if they fail to do so they should be held accountable but outside those rules they do not owe you anything.

 

Yes if I stop being profitable I have to chop some dead wood, restructure, steer the ship in a different direction or even turn it around, nobody wants to lose everything they worked hard for. If the company goes down then everyone goes down, I'd rather take home a bit less but still be able to take home something rather than risking taking home nothing.

 

Also if you aren't prepared to share the losses do not expect to share the gains (outside your contractual entitlements), the way I see it they acknowledged you by actually giving you something which is very cool if you want more you have to also carry some risk, time to start your own company.

 

 

I think its time to stop flinging around the whole "failing obamacare" notion.

And that is a typical response from those who have

 

The best way to break this down is (using numbers out of the sky) this:

 

If person 1 makes $100k/yr, they pay 25% in taxes, they live on $75k. Person 2 makes $1M/yr and also pays out 25%, they live on $750k.

 

Person two can absolutely get by on $750k/yr plus invest, save, pay for kids college, buy the new Hurracan, start a new business etc.. Person 1 can go out to eat once a month. Person 1 can either let their kids borrow money at 5% interest so that they can go to college.. OR they can eat ramen noodles so the kids don't have to.

 

Person 2 can go buy the new car without paying stupid interest rates.. Person 2 can actually earn money on banked money. Person 1 get $0.02/mo interest on their peanuts.

 

 

Did person 2 work harder? Is person 2 smarter? I'd bet= not really. Right place, right time? Sure. Born into it? Sure... but to say this person worked harder than that person is not always true. Yes, true a lot of times but from where I currently sit= I work, I think, I try to make good moves but unless this Marijuana stock I bought a few months ago (which I am down quite a bit on at the moment lmao) really goes bananas= when I'm 65 I'll have a nice house and a salvage titled, pieced together Diablo to show for my life's work. Maybe that is heavily skewed toward the half empty side of thinking.. but as wife-face and I are both sitting here with decent educations and seemingly no clear opportunities for real advancement... ehh.. I'd say its a shit path.

 

I had half a thought today about starting my own company.. but the thing is= in order to do that I'd basically have to shit where I currently eat, take what I have learned and do my own thing with it. I sort of view this as standing on the very person who helped me in my biggest time of need. I have always made the claim that I don't have to walk on anybody to get ahead. perhaps that is naive.

 

 

Anyway- fun chatting.. I'ma go back out and finish making this roof skin for my car.

 

 

 

 

Gotta come to the Liberal facebook lamborghini page "Lamborghini Passion" to see more for now ;-)

I'm kidding about it being only for Liberals.

 

 

This is comical to me in many ways... First and foremost, who are you to instill that your level of comfort ( as you say person #2 achieved) is enough to make another person happy/satisfied? You bring up that you'd bet that person #2 didn't really work harder, or isn't really smarter? Im willing to bet that in most instances they did, and they are. Im willing to bet most of these people, myself included wouldnt deem buying a Diablo, whether wrecked or perfect on a $250k (hopefully atleast $250K after taxes) salary a worthwhile investment while seemingly so unhappy in their own financial circumstance, rather they'd reinvest in themselves to gain the financial freedom they wish for.

 

And lastly, if tax brackets where the same, 100k, vs 1,000,000 ... that person would be paying as much as 10 people making 100k, not to mention making 1,000,000 + you are technicly in the 39.6 % tax bracket... Not 25%.

 

Reading your further comments I found it laughable how you were disgruntled about company growth and your percentage of share in that growth. But when asked if you were willing to share if there were a downside, you replied absolutely NOT. LOL You sound like a typical older liberal who took the safe path in life, and ended in mediocrity.

I just want to say that the internet example was used extremely poorly. Cable/Internet is(or at least has been) a textbook case of natural monopoly that has been used in college econ courses for decades. It's meaningless relative to the literally millions of licensed medical professionals free to offer their services through a variety of different avenues in an endless array of locations.

 

To say that's a case of economics not working...no, it's literally an actual textbook example of economics at work.

This is comical to me in many ways... First and foremost, who are you to instill that your level of comfort ( as you say person #2 achieved) is enough to make another person happy/satisfied? You bring up that you'd bet that person #2 didn't really work harder, or isn't really smarter? Im willing to bet that in most instances they did, and they are. Im willing to bet most of these people, myself included wouldnt deem buying a Diablo, whether wrecked or perfect on a $250k (hopefully atleast $250K after taxes) salary a worthwhile investment while seemingly so unhappy in their own financial circumstance, rather they'd reinvest in themselves to gain the financial freedom they wish for.

 

And lastly, if tax brackets where the same, 100k, vs 1,000,000 ... that person would be paying as much as 10 people making 100k, not to mention making 1,000,000 + you are technicly in the 39.6 % tax bracket... Not 25%.

 

Reading your further comments I found it laughable how you were disgruntled about company growth and your percentage of share in that growth. But when asked if you were willing to share if there were a downside, you replied absolutely NOT. LOL You sound like a typical older liberal who took the safe path in life, and ended in mediocrity.

 

 

Well I'm glad I could entertain you... says the peasant.

 

My financial comfort, my goals, the way I spend, what I spend on is not really the point of my posts. I initially chimed in talking about healthcare and how greed is the reason for it's current state. I apologize for getting overly comfortable with the conversation and sharing a bit more of my life than perhaps I should have. But at the end of the day= salaries have not moved the way the cost of living has. Period. I'm a 90's era kid who had a single mother who made $80k in the 90's with a high school education. At that time, a pizza and 30 wings was $15. I'm merely throwing punches at the world because I have "done what I was supposed to"... and while our household income is much better than I had it growing up= I don't feel its appropriate considering the student loans we both have...

 

Sure.. I bought a .. well.. medium sized house.. and yep, I jumped on the Diablo when it came along... guilty. Doesn't change my point of view about the world. If anything= it solidifies it.

 

My kid has got a board game setup-- gotta go be super dad..

 

Cheers-

Well I'm glad I could entertain you... says the peasant.

 

My financial comfort, my goals, the way I spend, what I spend on is not really the point of my posts. I initially chimed in talking about healthcare and how greed is the reason for it's current state. I apologize for getting overly comfortable with the conversation and sharing a bit more of my life than perhaps I should have. But at the end of the day= salaries have not moved the way the cost of living has. Period. I'm a 90's era kid who had a single mother who made $80k in the 90's with a high school education. At that time, a pizza and 30 wings was $15. I'm merely throwing punches at the world because I have "done what I was supposed to"... and while our household income is much better than I had it growing up= I don't feel its appropriate considering the student loans we both have...

 

Sure.. I bought a .. well.. medium sized house.. and yep, I jumped on the Diablo when it came along... guilty. Doesn't change my point of view about the world. If anything= it solidifies it.

 

My kid has got a board game setup-- gotta go be super dad..

 

Cheers-

 

You've witnessed evolution, population increases and the 'bar' has been raised. And in terms of your salary, you're compensated based on your value to the company. That has absolutely nothing to do with their profitability. Why not start a company of your own and get on the right side of it? Takes big balls and a lot of sacrifice.

 

'Did what we were supposed to' according to who?

 

I hate to sound harsh, but if you want to be wealthy (or even upper) start acting like them. To be frank you're acting just like poor people and you're expecting a different outcome. You gave many examples of what wealthy people do to get ahead. Did you stop to think they are wealthy because they did those things regardless of their income level? They didn't buy the high $$$ stuff until they had the $$$, never spending the investment $$$ to buy toys.

 

If you want to fix this problem:

Sell the toys. Pay off the student loans. Start investing that $$$ for you and your kids futures.

If you have the grades/talent, get someone else to pay for you to go back to school.

 

Listen to Fortis, he's the real deal.

 

I just want to say that the internet example was used extremely poorly. Cable/Internet is(or at least has been) a textbook case of natural monopoly that has been used in college econ courses for decades. It's meaningless relative to the literally millions of licensed medical professionals free to offer their services through a variety of different avenues in an endless array of locations.

 

To say that's a case of economics not working...no, it's literally an actual textbook example of economics at work.

 

 

This. Much of that is also influenced by local utility companes and politics.

Well I'm glad I could entertain you... says the peasant.

 

My financial comfort, my goals, the way I spend, what I spend on is not really the point of my posts. I initially chimed in talking about healthcare and how greed is the reason for it's current state. I apologize for getting overly comfortable with the conversation and sharing a bit more of my life than perhaps I should have. But at the end of the day= salaries have not moved the way the cost of living has. Period. I'm a 90's era kid who had a single mother who made $80k in the 90's with a high school education. At that time, a pizza and 30 wings was $15. I'm merely throwing punches at the world because I have "done what I was supposed to"... and while our household income is much better than I had it growing up= I don't feel its appropriate considering the student loans we both have...

 

Sure.. I bought a .. well.. medium sized house.. and yep, I jumped on the Diablo when it came along... guilty. Doesn't change my point of view about the world. If anything= it solidifies it.

 

My kid has got a board game setup-- gotta go be super dad..

 

Cheers-

 

Part of the reason for the extraordinary cost of college is because the government started subsidizing it and the subsidies got out of control. The initial idea was fine, i.e. things like the G.I. Bill and providing aid to poorer people who really need help in life. But then they went too far, and as a result, the cost of college began to increase. The government responded by further increasing subsidies, which thus caused further increases in the cost.

 

It became like with the Weimar Republic in Germany where they were increasing the money to counter the rising costs, not realizing that the reason costs were rising was because of the increase in money.

I sometimes really envy my employees, they work 9-5, go home, or go out with their friends, paycheck comes in, they pay their dues and have enough left over to be comfortable, whilst I get up at 6:30 get home at 10-11, exhausted, and the cycle repeats over and over. They ask me if they can leave early on Fridays to avoid rush hour because they're going away for the weekend whilst I simply use the weekends to catch up on sleep. Sure I earn more than them, but I also sacrifice a lot more than they do. They don't have to worry like I do, they simply show up do their job and get their paychecks, while I have to bring in business, deal with contractors, banks, authorities, and whole lot of other crap I won't list here.

 

All in all I wonder sometimes if being an employee does come with a rather higher quality of life. Life isn't all about money. No point having money if you can't really enjoy it. If any of my employees told me they deserved more because the business is growing, I'd be furious, and I'd rightfully show them the door. The only circumstance I see, when an employee would deserve more than average is when they take more responsibilities than average, so I can buy more time for myself, otherwise reasonably comfortable middle class wages for them and not a cent more despite the business growing. The overwhelming majority are unwilling or incapable to do more than it takes to earn their pay, so that's that.

I sometimes really envy my employees, they work 9-5, go home, or go out with their friends, paycheck comes in, they pay their dues and have enough left over to be comfortable, whilst I get up at 6:30 get home at 10-11, exhausted, and the cycle repeats over and over. They ask me if they can leave early on Fridays to avoid rush hour because they're going away for the weekend whilst I simply use the weekends to catch up on sleep. Sure I earn more than them, but I also sacrifice a lot more than they do. They don't have to worry like I do, they simply show up do their job and get their paychecks, while I have to bring in business, deal with contractors, banks, authorities, and whole lot of other crap I won't list here.

 

All in all I wonder sometimes if being an employee does come with a rather higher quality of life. Life isn't all about money. No point having money if you can't really enjoy it. If any of my employees told me they deserved more because the business is growing, I'd be furious, and I'd rightfully show them the door. The only circumstance I see, when an employee would deserve more than average is when they take more responsibilities than average, so I can buy more time for myself, otherwise reasonably comfortable middle class wages for them and not a cent more despite the business growing. The overwhelming majority are unwilling or incapable to do more than it takes to earn their pay, so that's that.

 

 

A lot of truth here, or at least it seems on the surface. (Comparing to my situation)

 

I do leave work every day at or before 3:30pm. I arrive around 7am. I used to be the guy who says "if you're not 10min early, you're late" but it doesn't really apply here for a couple of reasons. For starters, I usually spend my lunch time at my desk reading all about the world while I eat. In a sense, most days, I don't "take a lunch" so much as I do just quickly eat and then get back at it. So the 5min late or out the door is sort of a wash.

 

What is not really quantified here is the additional work that I regularly do in the evenings. It's rare that I bring my computer home, or bring a set of plans home to review. It does happen, but rarely. That said, I do log into my work email several times during the evening and over a weekend. Most lawyers I know would put time to that so in a sense, I make a mental note as well. I don't report it on my weekly log as anything unless it becomes excessive.

 

The point= if I ever arrive at it is that I do take on a bit more than is expected. In return, a decent bonus was anticipated. History would lead one to assume that after a good year- a bonus would be a couple extra paychecks. With that in mind, I sort of went out of my way to perform for the year and the better we did, the more I put into it. Back to that carrot in front of the donkey. When I opened my bonus check (which, yes, is discretionary) I nearly fell over when it was closer to 1/3 of a paycheck, let alone 2 or 3. All I could think about was the times I answered email while standing in line waiting for rides in Disney, while watching my daughters' softball games.. while sitting in a restaurant with my family.

 

I am trading 40+ hours of my life for this company and am willing to trade a bit more! but the trade has to make sense.

A lot of truth here, or at least it seems on the surface. (Comparing to my situation)

 

I do leave work every day at or before 3:30pm. I arrive around 7am. I used to be the guy who says "if you're not 10min early, you're late" but it doesn't really apply here for a couple of reasons. For starters, I usually spend my lunch time at my desk reading all about the world while I eat. In a sense, most days, I don't "take a lunch" so much as I do just quickly eat and then get back at it. So the 5min late or out the door is sort of a wash.

 

What is not really quantified here is the additional work that I regularly do in the evenings. It's rare that I bring my computer home, or bring a set of plans home to review. It does happen, but rarely. That said, I do log into my work email several times during the evening and over a weekend. Most lawyers I know would put time to that so in a sense, I make a mental note as well. I don't report it on my weekly log as anything unless it becomes excessive.

 

The point= if I ever arrive at it is that I do take on a bit more than is expected. In return, a decent bonus was anticipated. History would lead one to assume that after a good year- a bonus would be a couple extra paychecks. With that in mind, I sort of went out of my way to perform for the year and the better we did, the more I put into it. Back to that carrot in front of the donkey. When I opened my bonus check (which, yes, is discretionary) I nearly fell over when it was closer to 1/3 of a paycheck, let alone 2 or 3. All I could think about was the times I answered email while standing in line waiting for rides in Disney, while watching my daughters' softball games.. while sitting in a restaurant with my family.

 

I am trading 40+ hours of my life for this company and am willing to trade a bit more! but the trade has to make sense.

You are out of the office every day after working 8 hours. You check your work email when bored. You "sort of went out of your way to perform"? Isn't that like saying you almost tried hard to do your job?

 

One of my best friends is a partner in a large engineering firm and tells me about dealing with this same attitude every day. Guess how he made partner by 35? By putting in 80 hours a week while salaried for ten straight years. By using weekends to catch up on projects and trying to drum up business. By bringing in more clients and new contracts than anyone else and taking care of shit that wasn't even in his purview. By continuing his education and earning two Master's degrees and getting a slew of certifications, all while doing everything mentioned above.

 

His go to answer when he has to deal with fellow employees who see where he has gotten and want the same thing? You aren't entitled to a piece of the pie. If you want a larger slice then bust your ass and make a new pie. Working your normal hours and doing exactly what you are expected to do entitles you to a paycheck. Nothing more. I know plenty of people who work 60+ hours a week on salary who haven't seen a bonus in years. Consider yourself lucky.

 

Does my friend work weekends or travel every week like he used to? No. Is he now home every night for dinner so he can spend time with his kids? Yes. He paid his dues and earned that privilege.

 

Is being home every night to spend time with the family a priority for you? If it is there's nothing wrong with that. Just keep in mind that there are plenty of people out there willing to out work you to move up.

And since I missed out on the bacon talk...try these if you can find them.

A lot of truth here, or at least it seems on the surface. (Comparing to my situation)

 

I do leave work every day at or before 3:30pm. I arrive around 7am. I used to be the guy who says "if you're not 10min early, you're late" but it doesn't really apply here for a couple of reasons. For starters, I usually spend my lunch time at my desk reading all about the world while I eat. In a sense, most days, I don't "take a lunch" so much as I do just quickly eat and then get back at it. So the 5min late or out the door is sort of a wash.

 

What is not really quantified here is the additional work that I regularly do in the evenings. It's rare that I bring my computer home, or bring a set of plans home to review. It does happen, but rarely. That said, I do log into my work email several times during the evening and over a weekend. Most lawyers I know would put time to that so in a sense, I make a mental note as well. I don't report it on my weekly log as anything unless it becomes excessive.

 

The point= if I ever arrive at it is that I do take on a bit more than is expected. In return, a decent bonus was anticipated. History would lead one to assume that after a good year- a bonus would be a couple extra paychecks. With that in mind, I sort of went out of my way to perform for the year and the better we did, the more I put into it. Back to that carrot in front of the donkey. When I opened my bonus check (which, yes, is discretionary) I nearly fell over when it was closer to 1/3 of a paycheck, let alone 2 or 3. All I could think about was the times I answered email while standing in line waiting for rides in Disney, while watching my daughters' softball games.. while sitting in a restaurant with my family.

 

I am trading 40+ hours of my life for this company and am willing to trade a bit more! but the trade has to make sense.

 

WOW, this is what is wrong with society and the "working class". I am so fed up with this mind set!!! You work from 7 AM - 3:30. Holy shit...I wish I had those hours. Are you fcuking kidding me? You are making $75k a year and have those hours and get home when your kids get home (if you have kids) and have a life. At work you worry about just doing your job. You even have some extra income left over and TIME to be building a Lamborghini Diablo??? Sounds like a great life you have. You sound just like a couple employees of mine that look what I have and drive and think I do not do shit for owning the company (landscape company mind you as one of my company's that I spend most of my time with). Please compare your risk of work and what your obligations are compared to management and the owner that is making more than you. Do you worry about how you are getting business for the company next month that will cover all costs of building, marketing campaign, vehicles, employee wages for them and their families? Do you risk being sued in case your employee hits someone in your company vehicle, warranty your product that is out there, risk making or not making money if the market changes? I can go on and on. Everyone brings up some great points here and you still do not get it and never will unfortunately. Perfect example - in 2008-2010 the market took a dump and I worked over twelve hour days trying to keep my business alive. I had several MONTHS where I did not get paid a dime but made sure every employee took home a paycheck and there was business for us to survive...even if the jobs just covered my costs to keep the lights on and employees working. These are the risks people like us "Lambo owners" which you are referring to...and mind you that you are a Lambo owner too take to make it. I could have taken two paths in my life. The path you are taking or the one I took and where I am today. I busted my ass more than you are willing to and risked everything to be where I am today. I pay MORE TAXES THAN YOU AT A HIGHER % than you. You would shit your pants if they took our tax rate out of your paycheck...and you have the right to say we should be paying that or pay more. What the fcuk is wrong with people like you???

And since I missed out on the bacon talk...try these if you can find them.

 

OMG, will do (I don't eat pork). Duck bacon sounds delish.

I sometimes really envy my employees, they work 9-5, go home, or go out with their friends, paycheck comes in, they pay their dues and have enough left over to be comfortable, whilst I get up at 6:30 get home at 10-11, exhausted, and the cycle repeats over and over. They ask me if they can leave early on Fridays to avoid rush hour because they're going away for the weekend whilst I simply use the weekends to catch up on sleep. Sure I earn more than them, but I also sacrifice a lot more than they do. They don't have to worry like I do, they simply show up do their job and get their paychecks, while I have to bring in business, deal with contractors, banks, authorities, and whole lot of other crap I won't list here.

 

All in all I wonder sometimes if being an employee does come with a rather higher quality of life. Life isn't all about money. No point having money if you can't really enjoy it. If any of my employees told me they deserved more because the business is growing, I'd be furious, and I'd rightfully show them the door. The only circumstance I see, when an employee would deserve more than average is when they take more responsibilities than average, so I can buy more time for myself, otherwise reasonably comfortable middle class wages for them and not a cent more despite the business growing. The overwhelming majority are unwilling or incapable to do more than it takes to earn their pay, so that's that.

 

 

This x 1,000,000,000,000. I can't tell you how many times I wish I had it as easy as my employees.

Charlie laid it down!

 

7:30-3:30 is what my semi retired partners do. I feel like that would be a day off because I could hit the gym before dark and before my evening meetings or strategy sessions.

WOW, this is what is wrong with society and the "working class". I am so fed up with this mind set!!! You work from 7 AM - 3:30. Holy shit...I wish I had those hours. Are you fcuking kidding me? You are making $75k a year and have those hours and get home when your kids get home (if you have kids) and have a life. At work you worry about just doing your job. You even have some extra income left over and TIME to be building a Lamborghini Diablo??? Sounds like a great life you have. You sound just like a couple employees of mine that look what I have and drive and think I do not do shit for owning the company (landscape company mind you as one of my company's that I spend most of my time with). Please compare your risk of work and what your obligations are compared to management and the owner that is making more than you. Do you worry about how you are getting business for the company next month that will cover all costs of building, marketing campaign, vehicles, employee wages for them and their families? Do you risk being sued in case your employee hits someone in your company vehicle, warranty your product that is out there, risk making or not making money if the market changes? I can go on and on. Everyone brings up some great points here and you still do not get it and never will unfortunately. Perfect example - in 2008-2010 the market took a dump and I worked over twelve hour days trying to keep my business alive. I had several MONTHS where I did not get paid a dime but made sure every employee took home a paycheck and there was business for us to survive...even if the jobs just covered my costs to keep the lights on and employees working. These are the risks people like us "Lambo owners" which you are referring to...and mind you that you are a Lambo owner too take to make it. I could have taken two paths in my life. The path you are taking or the one I took and where I am today. I busted my ass more than you are willing to and risked everything to be where I am today. I pay MORE TAXES THAN YOU AT A HIGHER % than you. You would shit your pants if they took our tax rate out of your paycheck...and you have the right to say we should be paying that or pay more. What the fcuk is wrong with people like you???

 

Just remember Charlie:

 

 

This thread sure has turned motivational. So many inspiring stories. I deal with this question about employee versus employer myself, in that I desire to be wealthy but also question if I want all that work and responsibility. IMO, my goal I think would be to work really really really hard to build my own company, then sell it maybe and retire.