Night Shift in Iraq

They didn't send a helo far far away to take out a handful of insurgents. I have another video from work of something similar but you can see one of the guys crawling away and actually see heat from the exploding bodies.

I realize that.

 

An aircraft carrier battle group, in the theater of operations, is also SOP.

 

How much does it cost, to maintain on-station, an aircraft carrier battle group, with an attached sub ?

 

The problem IS the sop.

 

 

 

 

We cannot sustain the costs of operating the heavy equipment.

 

At over $10,000 an hour for a single helicopter gunship, it is not sustainable, in the long run.

 

This type of irregular warfare, will demand long tactical operations, for decades to come.

 

 

 

Medical care ?

 

If you are not going to risk casualties, do not get involved in a war.

 

 

 

 

 

The problem is our soldiers have no battle plan. Playing cop, is not going to work.

 

Does any U.S. battle plan in Iraq, have total victory, as an objective ?

 

The U.S. never had an exit strategy.

 

 

Couldn't agree more. War is NOT meant to be PC or 'neat' or 'clean'. That is what is supposed to DETER people from war in the first place. This notion of just picking off the bad guy is not only ridiculous, but the entire problem.

 

You either go to war or you don't. IF you do, you raise the place to ground. If you think that the casulties are therefore too high, don't go to war.

 

You can't fight an ideology with weapons; it won't work. Especially when the weapons are doing nothing but reinforcing the beliefs of the people you are trying to 'convert'.

 

$2 TRILLION wasted on this shit and we have ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY NOTHING to show for it.

 

With tha cash we could have paid off the deficit and funded actual health care and made some headway into the national debt!

 

THOUSANDS of troops dead, HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS injured (my brother in law being one of them).

 

Is gas $.10/gallon. fcuk NO!! It's higher than ever!

 

Defense spending at these levels is Military Welfare. It's pathetic. We spend more than the next 7 top spending nations combined and we are no safer.

 

Iraq, what a HUGE threat they were. When America gets IT shit together, then we DISCUSS policing the world.

 

Liberal or Conservative, this 'war' has been a complete joke.

i agree with the above^^

 

 

A super cobra has a dual blade rotor, which would make the noise much louder than Apache no? I second the Apache as the gun ship, just look at the delay in rounds being fired vs. hitiing targets; that is some fair distance away.

 

Correct. Cobra's are one the loudest helicopters in the world.

 

 

 

The problem is our soldiers have no battle plan. Playing cop, is not going to work.

 

Does any U.S. battle plan in Iraq, have total victory, as an objective ?

 

The U.S. never had an exit strategy.

 

Our exit strategy was to create a new democratic government that is self sustaining. We are pretty much at that point, thus the massive draw downs in troops in Iraq.

 

 

We can bitch about the cost of war all we want. Nobody said war is cheap.

That video is fcuking awesome! But, what if we'd have taken our 2 trillion dollars and dolled it out equally to every Iraqi, each getting a few hundred thousand dollars each; think how different that country would be. They'd like us, they'd be prosperous and the hard core Jihadi shit heads wouldn't have anyone to recruit into the holy war as everyone would be happy and employed etc (and they'd be no 5000 dead US service people) just a thought, and did I say how awesome that video is ......

Sorry guys but it is NOT an AC-130.

 

They are always orbiting in a circle (left turns), this was stationary, thus helicopter...in this case AH-64. You can tell by the rounds going down range the gun is a 30MM grenade launcher too, not a 20MM like the Super Cobra has.

Yeah... DEFINITELY not the magic dragon.... Not enough movement.

 

I cant really tell the difference between 20MM or 30MM... So Im inclined to take your word for it.

And I think the shots were taken at a range of two miles. That's some capable shit!

I can do that.... (almost)

IF you do, you raise the place to ground.

 

Another approach, is to fight just like the enemy combatants. In effect, bring terrorism to the enemy combatants. To do that, the war would have to be expanded beyond the borders of Iraq and Afghanistan. I am not sure the politicians are interested in that. I am not talking about moving tanks into Pakistan and Syria.

 

However, nobody said we cannot use Spooky, on a evening run over Peshawar, in an effort to bring about secondary explosions. Why do we not attack enemy areas of sanctuary, behind enemy lines, in both Syria and Pakistan ? Predator is being used to hit a single person or two. What about the arms caches and training camps ?

 

Another approach, would be to have enemy countries that support the insurgents, end up having to pay a heavy price, for their continued support. How about state merchant ships, that would suddenly disappear ? Important civilian financiers, that can no longer be found. We could send in special forces, that would cause all kinds of havoc, behind enemy lines. Burn enemy villages. Poison wells. Set up roadside bombs, in the backyard of the enemy. Burn the crops, that feed the enemy. Hit them where they do not expect us to show up. Shoot and scoot. Keep them guessing. That is the approach to use.

 

This type of effective inexpensive irregular dirty warfare, can be sustained for decades.

 

 

If you think that the casulties are therefore too high, don't go to war.

 

 

Thank g/d the casualties are actually low.

 

On the first day of the Battle of the Somme, the British lost 20,000 troops.

 

...the previous sentence can be read a second time.

 

 

Our exit strategy was to create a new democratic government that is self sustaining. We are pretty much at that point, thus the massive draw downs in troops in Iraq.

 

When the U.S. pulls out, the country will eventually become a blood bath. A coalition gov't is a joke. Everybody is watching the clock. When the U.S. leaves, it will be an arms merchants paradise. Iran will supply the Shia and Saudia will supply the Sunni. My money is on the Shia. The price of oil never looked so cheap, with the new Shia nuclear bombs just next door.

 

I am not against the war. I am against the tactics. It is foolish to use heavy expensive strategic weapons, in a tactical light irregular war, that will last for decades, if fought effectively. The Iraqi army was defeated, in the opening round. What is the U.S. doing, to combat the insurgency ? Posting troops on the corner of the market, does not secure the country.

 

The difficult part, is to slowly run the insurgency into the ground. We need to turn the enemy combatants into combat ineffective units. The U.S. has not stopped the importation of enemy weapons. Most likely, you have huge arms caches, just beyond the borders of Iraq and Afghanistan. Why are those targets not attacked ? If we do not attack those targets, we have no hope to win, in the long run. They will always find another recruit, who will pick up the quran and a klatch. We must use inexpensive light asymmetrical mobile tactics, for decades to come.

Bleed them to death.

I stand corrected. After listening to the shots, and comparing the HUD, it does appear to be a AH. Good spot.

Well we are just going to make the money back with Afghanistan resources, right?

Another approach, is to fight just like the enemy combatants. In effect, bring terrorism to the enemy combatants.

To do that, the war would have to be expanded beyond the borders of Iraq and Afghanistan. I am not sure the politicians are interested in that. I am not talking about moving tanks into Pakistan and Syria.

 

However, nobody said we cannot use Spooky, on a evening run over Peshawar, in an effort to bring about secondary explosions. Why do we not attack enemy areas of sanctuary, behind enemy lines, in both Syria and Pakistan ?

Predator is being used to hit a single person or two. What about the arms caches and training camps ?

 

Another approach, would be to have enemy countries that support the insurgents, end up having to pay a heavy price, for their continued support. How about state merchant ships, that would suddenly disappear ? Important civilian financiers, that can no longer be found. We could send in special forces, that would cause all kinds of havoc, behind enemy lines. Burn enemy villages. Poison wells. Set up roadside bombs, in the backyard of the enemy. Burn the crops, that feed the enemy. Hit them where they do not expect us to show up. Shoot and scoot. Keep them guessing. That is the approach to use.

 

This type of effective inexpensive irregular dirty warfare, can be sustained for decades.

 

 

 

 

 

Thank g/d the casualties are actually low.

 

On the first day of the Battle of the Somme, the British lost 20,000 troops.

 

...the previous sentence can be read a second time.

 

 

 

 

When the U.S. pulls out, the country will eventually become a blood bath. A coalition gov't is a joke. Everybody is watching the clock. When the U.S. leaves, it will be an arms merchants paradise. Iran will supply the Shia and Saudia will supply the Sunni. My money is on the Shia. The price of oil never looked so cheap, with the new Shia nuclear bombs just next door.

 

I am not against the war. I am against the tactics. It is foolish to use heavy expensive strategic weapons, in a tactical light irregular war, that will last for decades, if fought effectively. The Iraqi army was defeated, in the opening round. What is the U.S. doing, to combat the insurgency ? Posting troops on the corner of the market, does not secure the country.

 

The difficult part, is to slowly run the insurgency into the ground. We need to turn the enemy combatants into combat ineffective units. The U.S. has not stopped the importation of enemy weapons. Most likely, you have huge arms caches, just beyond the borders of Iraq and Afghanistan. Why are those targets not attacked ? If we do not attack those targets, we have no hope to win, in the long run. They will always find another recruit, who will pick up the quran and a klatch. We must use inexpensive light asymmetrical mobile tactics, for decades to come.

Bleed them to death.

 

I'm in love with your mind!

 

Yeah... DEFINITELY not the magic dragon.... Not enough movement.

 

I cant really tell the difference between 20MM or 30MM... So Im inclined to take your word for it.

 

Noise and rate of fire. The 20 MM is a multibarrel machine gun (gattling). The 30MM lobs HE grenades and only one barrel.

 

Ah-64 Apache

 

Ah-1 Cobra

...

 

I agree with pretty much everything you said. Except perhaps the stability of the Iraqi government in the future.

 

 

We are not in a total war right now. Hell, we haven't been since WWII. ROE's and politics prevents us from really bringing the fight to the enemy. Now some of the ROE's and politics I agree with, most I don't.

 

 

As for the future stability of Iraq, it really will come down to how corrupt the political leaders are and if the other Arab (not Persian) countries support them. Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Oman, etc, don't want to see an unstable Iraq. And the Arab's generally hate Persian's (Iran) to begin with.

No need to start a new fcuking thread.... I got bad vibes about this.

 

Alert Issued for 17 Afghan Military Members AWOL From U.S. Air Force Base

I agree with pretty much everything you said. Except perhaps the stability of the Iraqi government in the future.

 

 

We are not in a total war right now. Hell, we haven't been since WWII. ROE's and politics prevents us from really bringing the fight to the enemy. Now some of the ROE's and politics I agree with, most I don't.

 

 

As for the future stability of Iraq, it really will come down to how corrupt the political leaders are and if the other Arab (not Persian) countries support them. Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Oman, etc, don't want to see an unstable Iraq. And the Arab's generally hate Persian's (Iran) to begin with.

 

This guy makes the most sense out of everyone in the thread.

 

And with all due respect, most of us have no clue what's going on there and it would be wrong to pretend to. I'm sure our guys are working on and executing plans on taking out training facilities and weapons caches, and they undoubtedly have many times over the course of the war. This war in particular is way more complicated than most, or maybe all of the wars we have fought

 

The fact is, we will never have a clean cut war with all the political red tape we have today. Our troops are the best in the world and without a political environment at home that is completely behind them every step of the way, we cannot expect things to get done as cleanly as we would like (and the troops would like)

 

 

The fact is, we will never have a clean cut war with all the political red tape we have today. Our troops are the best in the world and without a political environment at home that is completely behind them every step of the way, we cannot expect things to get done as cleanly as we would like (and the troops would like)

 

Things were the worst when everyone was behind them the most.

 

And I would question the 'best' term. Soldier for soldier, my money is on Israel against anyone.

Things were the worst when everyone was behind them the most.

 

And I would question the 'best' term. Soldier for soldier, my money is on Israel against anyone.

 

Jew claw +1

Jew claw +1

 

This guy makes the most sense out of everyone in the thread.

 

And with all due respect, most of us have no clue what's going on there and it would be wrong to pretend to. I'm sure our guys are working on and executing plans on taking out training facilities and weapons caches, and they undoubtedly have many times over the course of the war. This war in particular is way more complicated than most, or maybe all of the wars we have fought

 

The fact is, we will never have a clean cut war with all the political red tape we have today. Our troops are the best in the world and without a political environment at home that is completely behind them every step of the way, we cannot expect things to get done as cleanly as we would like (and the troops would like)

 

 

Haha, thanks. But it's kinda my job.

I spent the better part of 3 years downtown Manhattan doing rescue, recovery and rebuild. If it were up to me Afghanistan and Iraq would look like Iowa and be the 51st and 52nd states. Level everything and start over.

I know it's not the most PC statement, but sorry, when you bury friends and pull bodies of innocent secretarys, office workers and others out of a debris pile that used to be office buildings, PC is no longer an option.

Soldier for soldier, my money is on Israel against anyone.

 

There is no doubt that their Air Force especially is better (at least IMO), but I think that our Marines are better than their equivalent, but hey, we'll never know

There is no doubt that their Air Force especially is better (at least IMO), but I think that our Marines are better than their equivalent, but hey, we'll never know

 

 

I don't know. I've never met a Marine I would trust to guard a grilled cheese let alone my life.

I don't know. I've never met a Marine I would trust to guard a grilled cheese let alone my life.

 

But I would put all my money on a Marine to TAKE someone else's grilled cheese (or their life). lol

I don't know. I've never met a Marine I would trust to guard a grilled cheese let alone my life.

they do it everyday

I don't know. I've never met a Marine I would trust to guard a grilled cheese let alone my life.

 

About 15 years ago we were traveling in the Dominican Republic and a cop tried to shake us down. We called the embassy and got 'the head marine in charge.' He asked us to hand the phone to the police man. 30 seconds later we were free to go.

 

 

I like some of the Israeli soldiers.