Shadowman and Discovery Automotive...

All well and good, I agree with the principle but spinning it back to the owner for not doing so is a touch callous.

 

As I said in my first post on the subject...I don't know Ray but I respect his collection and his enthusiasm. He has never given me any reason to show any disrespect and it's not intended. I'm attempting to illustrate that SM's request for owner's proof of insurance should've been a clear indicator that Ray's insurance would be PRIMARILY covering anything that happened.

Its a polarizing issue no doubt. Complicated by the fact that SM can't respond to things that can be taken out of context.

 

But it still boils down to one issue for me. Ray knew or suspected his policy was being used at the onset and chose to ignore it.

I will continue to take my cars there......the rest of you (a majority here I imagine) that dont own anything beyond a Scion, 3 series BMW or relic exotic car should shut the fcuk up Go weigh in on local mechanics that work on those P.O.S.'s

 

And the others.....you're all on record for sticking up for your wealthy pal Ray....good for you. Your ass kissing is duly noted. Maybe he'll sign your t-shirt at the next mile event. Move on already

 

You are such a douche I almost feel bad for you.

Its a polarizing issue no doubt. Complicated by the fact that SM can't respond to things that can be taken out of context.

 

But it still boils down to one issue for me. Ray knew or suspected his policy was being used at the onset and chose to ignore it.

 

I cannot see anything actually helpful coming from Shadowman coming on here. I highly doubt it will make Ray whole which is the key thing here.

If he was to post and in excessively extensive prose I may have to rip him apart and then break out the photoshop myself.

 

The insurance thing is strange and I like everyone else would have alarm bells ringing and asking questions, hindsight is a great thing though. Take the fact that it is a car out of the equation for a second, take it to be a inanimate object in your house that you took somewhere to be looked at and they break it would really expect to claim yourself? You just don't think about it.

Take putting a laptop in for a ram upgrade and some dildo in the shop smashes the screen and drops it off the counter. Would you realistically front the bill? Would you expect your household insurance to front the bill causing your policy premiums to go up as a result?

 

You guys must have a you break it you bought it policy over there right?

I can't debate if its better having insurance or not. Its better having insurance period.

 

I have a ton of it personally and professionally at a great expense.

 

However, when SM drives my car I realize he's using mine. I'm no smarter than Ray.....he knew too.

I will continue to take my cars there......the rest of you (a majority here I imagine) that dont own anything beyond a Scion, 3 series BMW or relic exotic car should shut the fcuk up Go weigh in on local mechanics that work on those P.O.S.'s

 

And the others.....you're all on record for sticking up for your wealthy pal Ray....good for you. Your ass kissing is duly noted. Maybe he'll sign your t-shirt at the next mile event. Move on already

 

Why then would you be a member here and associate with such trash?

It has its moments

I will continue to take my cars there......the rest of you (a majority here I imagine) that dont own anything beyond a Scion, 3 series BMW or relic exotic car should shut the fcuk up Go weigh in on local mechanics that work on those P.O.S.'s

Actually, this place has a high concentration of nice cars, and not Scions. But, if this forum was full of Scion owners, it would not change the opinion of most, that the way business was handled was not right. I don't even own a relic exotic anymore, and I see no reason to not comment.

 

and, who the fcuk are you to dictate policy?

Okay..my post was in bad taste.....I apologize

 

However I'm going to keep drilling this point home. Ray knew, or suspected that his policy was being used.....crying about it after the fact is lame

Okay..my post was in bad taste.....I apologize

 

However I'm going to keep drilling this point home. Ray knew, or suspected that his policy was being used.....crying about it after the fact is lame

Where has he cried about it? The whole point is that Shadowman is taking full advantage of a good guy simply because he could. Shadowman technically has no obligation to pay a cent (This is understood by everyone here!) but this is a matter of business ethics and personal accountability. THAT is exactly what is being examined.

This is my difficulty with DBK and the GT Forum. Threads locked, Information posted then “poof” gone? The letter by DBK stating all is settled and Ray has been paid then “poof” again gone stating he spoke prematurely and now he is in need of an 800-pound gorilla; all politics. DBK offered me via this forum $500.00 to identify myself as a GT owner and GT Forum member, peanuts, and why? Let the forum members speak for themselves rather than “protecting our family” as another moderator posted on the GT Forum. Who are they really protecting and why?

 

I'm gonna explain this one more time, with feeling. I'm gonna try and spell this out in the most easy to understand language I can.

 

1. "Threads locked".

 

Both threads, "Shadowman's Horrific Accident" and "ShadowMan and Area 51 Experience - Classic Insurance Saves the Day" were locked at Ray's request. I'm gonna try and type this again, but just imagine I'm doing it r-e-a-l-l-y s-l-o-w-l-y. Both threads, "Shadowman's Horrific Accident" and "ShadowMan and Area 51 Experience - Classic Insurance Saves the Day" were locked at Ray's request. I'm completely open to explanation as to why Ray's request makes you have a problem with me, or makes you think we're somehow protecting Shadowman. Based on that logic, Ray is trying to protect Shadowman...from Ray.

 

2. I never made a thread saying anything was settled. Chip had been on the phone off and on with Ray, Bill and the insurance company all day, Ray indicated there was a solution he'd be amenable to, Chip prematurely posted while I was asleep, Ray sent me a text about it at 6 A.M, I got up and deleted it, then posted the clarification thread. I also have never said Ray was paid. I talked to Ray last night and told him he should clarify that he has not been paid. Ray is a big boy, he can speak (type) for himself. If he wants to say something, when he gets back from Spain, he will.

 

3. I sarcastically offered you the $500 because you're being what the kids call a "punk". I like to keep mental note of who at least attempts to be a man about things, so the "peanuts" are worth it. If you've got an issue, a) you could at least get your facts straight, and B ) you could take it up with me. You stick to this theory that "Oh well geez, I might have sent my car there if I hadn't read this thread." So let me get this straight: You read a thread on Ford GT Forum in which Ray Hofman essentially says "Shadowman totaled my car, lied about the circumstances surrounding the wreck, offered me no assistance, and then said 'you're on your own, peace out'," and you were going to still send your car there until you read some kid with a Honda saying "fcuk that! I'd sue that guy!" on LamboPower? Give me a break. The truth is, people on the internet just get upset when they can't be part of the pile.

 

You keep saying "who are we protecting." I want to hear YOUR rationale how making the thread a STICKY with the understanding that Ray and only Ray can update it is hiding anything. If you own a Ford GT, the top thread you see in the owners section on Ford GT Forum is the thread detailing how Shadowman totaled Ray Hofman's car. Do you not think that there was a calculation made that after the threads from Ford GT Forum were CTRL+V'd onto Autoblog, Jalopnik and a dozen major car forums, word was out? Fact is it was, and I don't do the "dur dur, this is Billy checking in from CarXforum to say fcuk that guy," bit. Who cares? Is any of that b.s going to help Ray get made whole? Nope. And I don't really give a shit about anything else.

 

By the way, it's a real bitch to stay anonymous on the internet: laniakea. Dun dun duuuuuuh.

Okay..my post was in bad taste.....I apologize

 

However I'm going to keep drilling this point home. Ray knew, or suspected that his policy was being used.....crying about it after the fact is lame

 

A business owner not taking responsibility and accountability for his actions as well as many other things is even more lame.

If he said he had insurance and then it was determined he didn't.....ROAST HIM

 

But he made it clear he was using Ray's. Where is there a lack of ethics?

This thread has run it's course. There are 3 people here trying to defend a shady repair shop. We've gone around and around back to the beginning.

 

The bottom line remains the same and is indefensible:

1: Took out customer's car and wrecked it. No insurance, then proceeded to be dismissive and indignant to the client.

2: Claimed injuries and had hospital bill paid by customer's insurance

3: Refused to take responsibility until WAY AFTER the fact and after much trashing on numerous car forums.

4: Did NOT cover out of pocket expenses of customer. Why not? Insurance has nothing to do with that part of it.

5: Has minions come to LP and bash LP members ( smart really smart)

6: Uses the description "gal" when referring to cars. ( felony in 49 states)

holy smokes this thread grew legs and ran away with itself. wow.

If he said he had insurance and then it was determined he didn't.....ROAST HIM

 

But he made it clear he was using Ray's. Where is there a lack of ethics?

Ethics is doing what's right. Obviously the idea of ethics isn't set in stone but its pretty obvious that skating responsibility wouldn't fall under ethical.

If he said he had insurance and then it was determined he didn't.....ROAST HIM

 

But he made it clear he was using Ray's. Where is there a lack of ethics?

OK again, getting old really quick now. I have pointed it out, many others have done so too.

We get your point but the points have been broken down again and again that Shadowman's conduct in many arenas thus far have been far from ethical or correct.

Well thats where SM needs to step in and respond.....my point has beem made

Well thats where SM needs to step in and respond.....my point has beem made

 

 

When did he become SM?

When did he become SM?

The same time he made his point!

Ladies and Gentleman, it's painfully obvious we all have VERY high expectations for resolution in this highly volatile and polarizing situation. There isn't any arguing that. Considering there are only three people involved with this specific instance, Ray, Alex (through Ray) and S.M. there really is no reason for S.M. to be "put on trial" by all the other members here. While proliferation of information for prospective customers is helpful, it all falls into how the information is displayed.

 

Granted many have had personal experiences with S.M. that were both positive, (Josh Kalis is an acquaintance of mine and long time repeat customer of S.M. without any issues) and negative. It's not doing any good to demand that he 'show himself' to the minions of the internet. If and when this specific situation comes to a close, then those involved can provide us with the details they feel comfortable sharing.

 

Many of us here know Ray and are willing to defend our L/P brother via the keyboard best we know how. (I'm not saying this is bad) this kind of comradery is what helps make L/P one of THE BEST forums on the net. No matter how many boards I dick around on, I have never found a place that I feel comfortable calling home like L.P. We by far have the best content and information anywhere, bar none. Sure, we are a little rough around the edges, but that is what helps make everyone feel welcome after a few rounds of hazing.

 

But I digress,

 

No matter what the circumstances or situation, there is always a chance to do what is universally accepted as right or wrong. If someone decides to go the wrong route, there will be consequences to be paid in many facets of the word. While there are also consequences for the right choice, and sometimes it hurts, it's never as bad as trying to cover something up.

 

I hope, for the sake of Ray and S.M. this comes to a resolution where right is done and responsibly is accepted by those who are at fault.

Great post Destructo........this thread should be locked with yours as the final post until one of the 2 party's involved has something to say

...hadowman's conduct in many arenas thus far have been far from ethical or correct.

Great post Destructo........this thread should be locked with yours as the final post until one of the 2 party's involved has something to say

 

Thanks, but the point isn't to lock this until they have something to say. If either party WANTED to say anything, that's another story. We can't, nor should we force either party to speak to answer to us the "jury of the internet."

- Ladies and Gentleman, it's painfully obvious we all have VERY high expectations for resolution in this highly volatile and polarizing situation. There isn't any arguing that. Considering there are only three people involved with this specific instance, Ray, Alex (through Ray) and S.M. there really is no reason for S.M. to be "put on trial" by all the other members here.

 

- If and when this specific situation comes to a close, then those involved can provide us with the details they feel comfortable sharing.

 

- I hope, for the sake of Ray and S.M. this comes to a resolution where right is done and responsibly is accepted by those who are at fault.

 

Well done x3.

 

 

If either party WANTED to say anything, that's another story. We can't, nor should we force either party to speak to answer to us the "jury of the internet."

 

Standing "O"