2013 SRT Viper - Main Thread

http://www.autogespot.nl/srt-viper-gts/2012/08/12

Only needs to be lowered about 5 inches

Wow those gaps, ohh the gaps!

Couple more:

 

 

Couple more:

 

 

I really want to like it with stripes, but they just look weird when they go over the hood vents... from some angles it makes it look like they were painted wrong or something like that.

I dig it.

I can smell the vinyl dash from here

I can smell the vinyl dash from here

 

Really. . . you must be confusing that with custom stitched leather and alcantara.

 

Really. . . you must be confusing that with custom stitched leather and alcantara.

 

looks great in the picture, but im not sure how that will translate with "Good ole Boy's" craftsmanship

If you truly think the vipers interior is going to be something fantastic and stellar I have ocean front property to sell you in North Dakota.

 

Its a dodge product, when was the last time they did anything stellar???

If you truly think the vipers interior is going to be something fantastic and stellar I have ocean front property to sell you in North Dakota.

 

Its a dodge product, when was the last time they did anything stellar???

 

The turn around they did in recent years is night and day difference from their old products, but still not top of the line. I believe the chief designer of SRT said that the viper's interior would use: "the best leather and materials available" or something along those lines.

Lowered!

If you truly think the vipers interior is going to be something fantastic and stellar I have ocean front property to sell you in North Dakota.

 

Its a dodge product, when was the last time they did anything stellar???

 

 

 

The problem with your thinking is that your comparing the Viper with a Lamborghini...For its price point this new Viper is a great value compared with other sports cars in its class plus it has the added value of being able to outrun and handle cars 3X its cost. If you bother to really read about this new Viper you will see that its a re-vamped car in a bunch of different areas, for the better.....

Will it ever be a Lamborghini,? NO and its not trying to be so all the comparisons are just dumb. You just cant compare any niche ,low volume car company to the US automakers. I applaud Dodge and Chevy for what they have done and also their race history.

I understand this is a Lambo site and the Viper will get little love but Iam also surprised at some of the favorable response too...Just like F-Chat there are automotive enthusiast and then there are brand loyalist who turn their minds off to anything not Lambo,Ferrari, Porsche etc. I think we are living in one of the greatest times in automotive history just wish I had the money and time to enjoy them all....

The problem with your thinking is that your comparing the Viper with a Lamborghini...For its price point this new Viper is a great value compared with other sports cars in its class plus it has the added value of being able to outrun and handle cars 3X its cost. If you bother to really read about this new Viper you will see that its a re-vamped car in a bunch of different areas, for the better.....

Will it ever be a Lamborghini,? NO and its not trying to be so all the comparisons are just dumb. You just cant compare any niche ,low volume car company to the US automakers. I applaud Dodge and Chevy for what they have done and also their race history.

I understand this is a Lambo site and the Viper will get little love but Iam also surprised at some of the favorable response too...Just like F-Chat there are automotive enthusiast and then there are brand loyalist who turn their minds off to anything not Lambo,Ferrari, Porsche etc. I think we are living in one of the greatest times in automotive history just wish I had the money and time to enjoy them all....

 

I dont think anyone is dense enough to compare it to a Lambo, that like saying the lambo interior is shit cause look at Pagani. I think for the money your spending the interior is shit in past vipers (and probably future).

The problem with your thinking is that your comparing the Viper with a Lamborghini...For its price point this new Viper is a great value compared with other sports cars in its class plus it has the added value of being able to outrun and handle cars 3X its cost. If you bother to really read about this new Viper you will see that its a re-vamped car in a bunch of different areas, for the better.....

Will it ever be a Lamborghini,? NO and its not trying to be so all the comparisons are just dumb. You just cant compare any niche ,low volume car company to the US automakers. I applaud Dodge and Chevy for what they have done and also their race history.

I understand this is a Lambo site and the Viper will get little love but Iam also surprised at some of the favorable response too...Just like F-Chat there are automotive enthusiast and then there are brand loyalist who turn their minds off to anything not Lambo,Ferrari, Porsche etc. I think we are living in one of the greatest times in automotive history just wish I had the money and time to enjoy them all....

 

Uh...no.

 

This Viper doesn't look like it will be that great of a value compared to even its own native competition at the price point it's slotting in at, particularly the GT-R and ZR-1, so I'm not sure where that mindset is coming from in trying to misguidedly defend it and claiming "bias" on the part of those who dare disagree with your valuations.

 

Remember, this is a car that's going to come in around $120,000 for the GTS version everyone wants, so it's not some plucky upstart that's going to redefine price/performance with its 'Merican CAN-DO attitude and patriotism!

 

For that money it sure as hell better have an interior that doesn't make us groan, and other typical nonsense that American cars always seem to let us down on.

 

We'll see when it gets here, but there is nothing wrong, nothing wrong whatsoever, in an L-Power member correctly stating that most American sports cars have been let downs, and this Viper may be yet another link in that disappointing chain.

 

Personally I hope it does well to be honest, as it would be nice to see an alternative to the POS, especially one that looks far more exotic. And the interior shots do look great to my eye so far.

I agree for the added cost the new interior better be nice, and on the surface it appears to be so.

 

The viper is a total love it or hate it car, and personally I love them. Raw performance is what they are all about. It's rwd only so 0-60 might not break records, but the old acr has yet to be touched by any other production car around the ring. The new car will only improve on that and my bet is the actual performance numbers are astounding at any price point.

 

It's a car that claims 640hp, with a tradition of being wildly underrated, that will go over 100k miles with no service outside of oil changes and air filters.

 

It's a give and take, if you want a cushy auto daily driver don't even consider this car. If you want a Shit load of performance with a real clutch pedal and Shit eating grin included, I would bet you fcuking love it.

 

I put 50k miles on a gts and am currently looking at another 01' gts. I love them, and I guess that fits the trend of people lusting after diablos and such.

I agree for the added cost the new interior better be nice, and on the surface it appears to be so.

 

The viper is a total love it or hate it car, and personally I love them. Raw performance is what they are all about. It's rwd only so 0-60 might not break records, but the old acr has yet to be touched by any other production car around the ring. The new car will only improve on that and my bet is the actual performance numbers are astounding at any price point.

 

It's a car that claims 640hp, with a tradition of being wildly underrated, that will go over 100k miles with no service outside of oil changes and air filters.

 

It's a give and take, if you want a cushy auto daily driver don't even consider this car. If you want a Shit load of performance with a real clutch pedal and Shit eating grin included, I would bet you fcuking love it.

 

I put 50k miles on a gts and am currently looking at another 01' gts. I love them, and I guess that fits the trend of people lusting after diablos and such.

 

 

This is basically how I see it, with the exception of the track numbers as it's just not possible to have a RWD car set records like the old days versus the massive AWD/torque-vectoring/etc that's out there now.

 

It will be competitive, but not dominant. And it doesn't need to be dominant honestly, as no one gives a shit what some ACR did on the N-Ring besides a few of us who love numbers.

 

But I do think it's going to be far more cushy and DD'able than the hardcore fringe is expecting, which is a good thing as I don't need these cars to rattle fillings just to prove to me how macho they are.

If you truly think the vipers interior is going to be something fantastic and stellar I have ocean front property to sell you in North Dakota.

 

Its a dodge product, when was the last time they did anything stellar???

Since they're now owned by Fiat and are using the same leather supplier, Seat supplier, etc... as Ferrari?

 

This is basically how I see it, with the exception of the track numbers as it's just not possible to have a RWD car set records like the old days versus the massive AWD/torque-vectoring/etc that's out there now.

 

It will be competitive, but not dominant. And it doesn't need to be dominant honestly, as no one gives a shit what some ACR did on the N-Ring besides a few of us who love numbers.

 

These two sentences contradict each other if I'm understanding you right.

 

Its not possible for a RWD car to set records like the old days versus massive AWD etc cars out there? Yet in your second sentence you admit the ACR has dominated said "massive AWD" competition on the hardest, longest track in the world but then you discard it as of no consequence.....

 

Just food for thought for you. Look at some of the tracks in the states that the ACR, ZR1, LP560, GTR etc have run on and you will see RWD at the top on quite a few of them. So you don't have to just look at the Nurburgring to see that RWD can still be competitive and even dominant. I don't know where you got the idea that RWD can't compete with

 

BTW look at the cars that have beaten these "massive AWD" unbeatable cars on the Ring as well. RWD production cars are at the top of the Ring list ahead of cars like the Veyron, GTR, Aventador etc. ACR, ZR1, LFA and GT2 RS are all way ahead of them time wise. I think you my be premature in sounding the death knell for RWD cars.

 

Case in point:

 

Laguna Seca

http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/laguna_seca.html

 

Willow Springs

http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/willow_springs.html

 

Virginia International Raceway

http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/virginia...al_raceway.html

 

Streets of Willow

http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/willow_s..._of_willow.html

 

Spring Mountain

http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/spring_m...op_section.html

 

Buttonwillow

http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/buttonwi...uration_13.html

 

Streets of Willow

http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/willow_s...w_17_miles.html

 

 

These are just a few tracks stateside where stock to stock rwd cars were either very dominant or competitive with the best AWD cars out there. There are tons more tracks I can provide as evidence

These two sentences contradict each other if I'm understanding you right.

 

Its not possible for a RWD car to set records like the old days versus massive AWD etc cars out there? Yet in your second sentence you admit the ACR has dominated said "massive AWD" competition on the hardest, longest track in the world but then you discard it as of no consequence.....

 

No, it's an accurate representation of my opinion, no contradiction at all that I can see.

 

I'm saying that the new Viper won't be dominating anything, because the AWD platforms are just too difficult to compete against with all of the electronic wizardry that's prevalent. The ACR was an exception, particularly with most of the times it recorded having been done on very non-stock semi-slicks. Still a great car though, no doubt, but the new Viper isn't going to touch it, and nor was it designed to, that's my point really.

 

There's a reason why the Nissan GTR can do what it does despite only having 545hp and weighing 4000+ pounds on a scale. And that reason is a lethal combination of AWD + sophisticated support electronic support, which allows the car to rise above the typical power/weight/grip limits for those numbers.

 

If Viper loyalists are really thinking that this is some sort of rebirth of the track time dominance the car had years ago...and more...you are in for a massive disappointment. The world has moved on, and Fiat knows that volume sales will only come from the car being a "jack of all trades" instead of a track knife.

 

If on the other hand you're expecting a good overall performer that's fun, has more creature comforts and electronic help than the previous gen, is more livable in general, and has a look that's far more exotic than say a vanilla POS, then you're going to be very very happy.

Uh...no.

 

This Viper doesn't look like it will be that great of a value compared to even its own native competition at the price point it's slotting in at, particularly the GT-R and ZR-1, so I'm not sure where that mindset is coming from in trying to misguidedly defend it and claiming "bias" on the part of those who dare disagree with your valuations.

 

Remember, this is a car that's going to come in around $120,000 for the GTS version everyone wants, so it's not some plucky upstart that's going to redefine price/performance with its 'Merican CAN-DO attitude and patriotism!

 

For that money it sure as hell better have an interior that doesn't make us groan, and other typical nonsense that American cars always seem to let us down on.

 

Not to mention the new GT500. No, it won't handle with an old or new Viper, but it's going to be damn near as fast in a straight line at half the price. So yes, the interior in the new car better be tits. But either way, where Dodge/SRT screwed the pooch big time IMO is in sticking with the 6MT only, at a time when the upline competitors they're trying to benchmark against are either doing away with 6MT's entirely or producing very few of them in favor of DCT's. I don't know if the decision was driven by fear of adding several thousand more to the cost or fear of offending their longtime base or what, but I'm thinking they've caught themselves between a rock and a hard place--much of the longtime base can't afford the car at the $120-130k price point anyway, and the more well heeled buyers of R8's/Turbo S's/LP550's etc. who they're trying to attract with the updated electronics and "Bentley qualilty" interior aren't going to want to row the gears 100% of the time. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

 

http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/willow_springs.html

 

Those times are interesting in that many were done by the same driver, and thats the slower 08' model that didn't have the revised transmission gearing.

 

2 seconds over a GTR and LP560 is a serious smack down. And sorry, but the tires it comes with are full DOT rated so don't see what is so special about that. I have no doubt that the new viper will give a good thrashing to the AWD cars around the track.

 

Truthfully I'm not sure the new SRT or GTS will beat the 09' ACR track times, it doesn't have the downforce to do that currently. But that is ignoring the fact that there will be an ACR version of that car coming along shortly as well. With the ALMS cars already racing, the development is there and will be even more refined than the previous ACR.

 

None of them will 0-60 in the rain like a GTR, and i'm completely ok with that.

 

Not to mention the new GT500. No, it won't handle with an old or new Viper, but it's going to be damn near as fast in a straight line at half the price. So yes, the interior in the new car better be tits. But either way, where Dodge/SRT screwed the pooch big time IMO is in sticking with the 6MT only, at a time when the upline competitors they're trying to benchmark against are either doing away with 6MT's entirely or producing very few of them in favor of DCT's. I don't know if the decision was driven by fear of adding several thousand more to the cost or fear of offending their longtime base or what, but I'm thinking they've caught themselves between a rock and a hard place--much of the longtime base can't afford the car at the $120-130k price point anyway, and the more well heeled buyers of R8's/Turbo S's/LP550's etc. who they're trying to attract with the updated electronics and "Bentley qualilty" interior aren't going to want to row the gears 100% of the time. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

 

 

You raise an interesting point with the omission of a DCT, which Fiat certainly could have sourced one from Ferrari's supplier or several others, cost permitting. If Nissan can deliver one in the GTR for its price, certainly Fiat could have done one without too much sticker shock for consumers. It must have been due to cost and/or time constraints then.

 

Adding six or twelve more months of development time to the car, and then letting the C7 POS steal some headlines (or sales possibly) was probably not an option, as the window is open right now in a big way as the next Viper is arriving at a great time slot without a lot of natural competition (the now-old ZR1 is really it for the most part).

 

Here's a question that can help shed light on your thought: How many ZR-1s have been sold with automatic transmissions? What % is that of the total sales?

 

If it's a small % that have opted for the auto, then Dodge/SRT/whatever brass made the right call. But if it's over say 25-35%, then I'd say your concerns are justified. That's the closest car/target buyer I can think of for a comparison.

Here's a question that can help shed light on your thought: How many ZR-1s have been sold with automatic transmissions? What % is that of the total sales?

 

Thats an easy answer, None. The ZR1 was never offered with an auto.

 

In all corvette sales: "This year 62.64% of 2011 Corvette made were Automatic…take Plastic mess-06/ZR1 out of the mix because they are ONLY 6 speed manuals, then the number goes to nearly 72%."

 

Lots of auto vettes, and those are old school torque converter automatics.

Thats an easy answer, None. The ZR1 was never offered with an auto.

 

In all corvette sales: "This year 62.64% of 2011 Corvette made were Automatic…take Plastic mess-06/ZR1 out of the mix because they are ONLY 6 speed manuals, then the number goes to nearly 72%."

 

Lots of auto vettes, and those are old school torque converter automatics.

 

Nice, there we go then, that likely provided the blueprint for SRT planners to kill any need for an auto in the Viper, DCT or not.

 

Whether that's the right decision or not is left to be seen, but obviously it would have helped the new car's published lap times considerably if they had a low-ms auto option, especially at the Ring where god knows how many total shifts occur throughout a single run.

 

An obvious example of that specific technology helping to artificially lower a car's times is the aforementioned Nissan GTR, which if equppied with just a manual transmission instead of its own DCT would have put up numbers much higher across the board in every test ever done on the car.