50 dead is mass shooting at florida gay club

The main problem here is radical Islam, not guns IMO.

here is a solution. study muhammad.

The main problem here is radical Islam, not guns IMO.

 

Radical Islam is fundamental, puritanical 7th century Islam of Muhammad, his companions, and his successors. Unfortunately, that statement is too islamophobic because we need to be sensitive to the fcuking feelings of muslims, although 50 innocent homosexuals were just shot to death. If the left can go after christian bakers and nationally shame them for being so homophobic and bigoted, they can do the same for outliers in the muslim community. Instead, they are on stage talking about islamophobia and fcuking becoming apologists for islam. In other words this is known as bigotry of low expectations.

Outrageous act that one guy can inflict so much terror, death and suffering. One guy.

This is equally as outrageous in my city for 2016- year to date.

1425 shot. 254 shot and killed.

It is the damn Wild West all over again and I'm not a fan.

In what is the city with the strictest of gun control laws..

^yep, totally concur. Gun control is not the answer. Rooting out those who intend to kill, as difficult as that may be, is the answer. It should not be charged by any race either.

While gun control wouldn't be the end all be all of conclusions for this issue, don't you think that maybe for this particular case it would have helped? I agree with most of what has been said, but there still is no reason this guy should have been allowed to buy a gun.

In the end, there's an issue with humans that's been around since the beginning of time and no law will change that.

 

 

This is the problem and a point I keep making to people, I'm sure I will get slammed for this but if it wasn't for a (pretty large) portion of society scamming the system even socialism has some good points that would work towards helping people.

 

While gun control wouldn't be the end all be all of conclusions for this issue, don't you think that maybe for this particular case it would have helped? I agree with most of what has been said, but there still is no reason this guy should have been allowed to buy a gun.

 

 

Coming from a gun controlled country I would agree.

 

I also understand that guns aren't the main issue, but they are the issue which can be most easily addressed. It would be easier to outlaw guns than to eliminate religious extremism or lock up every mentally unstable person. If guns weren't as readily available and carried harsh penalties for illegal ownership this guy may have just used a machete and killed far fewer people.

Coming from a gun controlled country I would agree.

 

I also understand that guns aren't the main issue, but they are the issue which can be most easily addressed. It would be easier to outlaw guns than to eliminate religious extremism or lock up every mentally unstable person. If guns weren't as readily available and carried harsh penalties for illegal ownership this guy may have just used a machete and killed far fewer people.

 

Maybe, maybe not. Guns are part of the American constitution and the second amendment won't be overturned . If you suddenly made guns illegal here after so many years you'd end up penalizing the law abiding populace more than the criminals.

 

The Paris attack was pretty bad in a gun free country. As long as guns are made in this world criminals will get them. Drugs are illegal yet so many of them come into the country.

 

This shooter had a special permit to possess guns as a security guard. The failure occurred because of over political correctness. This guy had been reported to his employer who did nothing in fear of profiling. This wife beating nutjob should have been stripped of his right to bear arms, but then should I lose my personal weapon because this insane person went insane?

 

 

Maybe, maybe not. Guns are part of the American constitution and the second amendment won't be overturned . If you suddenly made guns illegal here after so many years you'd end up penalizing the law abiding populace more than the criminals.

 

The Paris attack was pretty bad in a gun free country. As long as guns are made in this world criminals will get them. Drugs are illegal yet so many of them come into the country.

 

This shooter had a special permit to possess guns as a security guard. The failure occurred because of over political correctness. This guy had been reported to his employer who did nothing in fear of profiling. This wife beating nutjob should have been stripped of his right to bear arms, but then should I lose my personal weapon because this insane person went insane?

 

I understand all that yot are saying, I do know it is a heavily layered issue that cannot be fixed overnight.

 

But on the topic of drugs, I'm sure if they offer the death penalty for importing like some Asian countries it may slow it down somewhat. But harsher penalties all around are needed for drugs IMO.

 

Just read that he was seen before at Pulse by multiple people. Seems like he hung out there and like I mentioned earlier, he was gay and pissed off about it.

The more guns are controlled, the more criminals will take advantage and use them i.e.; chicago. IMO, when there are more guns, criminals would be less likely to use them for fear of the other person having one as well. We have become so politically correct, it has overtaken our strengths and made us weak and extremely vulnerable. As much as the truth hurts, racial profiling is what it is for a reason. America should not change its values due to who lives here. Those who live here need to change their values to our way of life. If you don't like it then go back where you came from. It disgusts me that children don't say the Pledge of Allegiance due to religious beliefs. fcuk you, you are in our country and this is what we do. You don't like that there is freedom of speech, freedom of expression, sexual orientation and whatever else? fcuk you get the fcuk out of here and go back to the shit country where you have no freedoms and no voice. I am in full support of closing our boarders until a system can be put in place where those looking for a citizenship must be fully vetted to know who they are and why they want to come here. Tough shit if you don't like it, we were here first and we get to make the rules to protect our citizens.

Coming from a gun controlled country I would agree.

 

I also understand that guns aren't the main issue, but they are the issue which can be most easily addressed. It would be easier to outlaw guns than to eliminate religious extremism or lock up every mentally unstable person. If guns weren't as readily available and carried harsh penalties for illegal ownership this guy may have just used a machete and killed far fewer people.

 

So let me get this straight, a guy that wasn't worried about the penalties associated with killing 50 people could have been stopped by harsher penalties on gun ownership? Care to explain that logic?

Um... Everybody going off on guns.... He had a bomb too.... And I'm fairly certain those ARE illegal.

Um... Everybody going off on guns.... He had a bomb too.... And I'm fairly certain those ARE illegal.

Had a bomb and was a registered Democrat. That'll fcuk with the narritive.

So let me get this straight, a guy that wasn't worried about the penalties associated with killing 50 people could have been stopped by harsher penalties on gun ownership? Care to explain that logic?

 

 

Not in this case as a whole because guns are so prolific already. But if guns were outlawed with harsh penalties for having illegal weapons were rolled out, how many street thugs would be willing to have an illegal firearm if it were say 12 months in jail unquestioned for a first offence, 2 years for a second etc.

 

Perhaps 5 years for selling etc.

 

It would take time but eventually the street level guns would go, it would then be organised crime who would have them which no matter what you regulate, they always will. It also doesn't stop bombs or planes being flown into buildings, I recognise that.

 

I'm not saying it's a perfect solution, and I know the bleeding hearts would argue that prison doesn't fix a problem, but surely on balance this would be a solution to a problem that has a yet not been fixed in the USA and seems to be getting worse.

 

Here in Australia the last mass shooting spurred gun reforms against public outcry, but we have not had a mass shooting in around 20 years now. It has not stopped all guns, but has made a difference. Yes there are still murders, yes there are still crazies like the hostage taking in Sydney, I'm not sure of the stats on gun deaths per 1m people but I'd be willing to bet it's lower here than in the USA.

 

And don't think I'm against guns, I'd love to have one and enjoy shooting it, but accept that it's probably not best for our society overall to allow them, so accept that small sacrifice.

Not in this case as a whole because guns are so prolific already. But if guns were outlawed with harsh penalties for having illegal weapons were rolled out, how many street thugs would be willing to have an illegal firearm if it were say 12 months in jail unquestioned for a first offence, 2 years for a second etc.

 

Perhaps 5 years for selling etc.

 

It would take time but eventually the street level guns would go, it would then be organised crime who would have them which no matter what you regulate, they always will. It also doesn't stop bombs or planes being flown into buildings, I recognise that.

 

I'm not saying it's a perfect solution, and I know the bleeding hearts would argue that prison doesn't fix a problem, but surely on balance this would be a solution to a problem that has a yet not been fixed in the USA and seems to be getting worse.

 

Here in Australia the last mass shooting spurred gun reforms against public outcry, but we have not had a mass shooting in around 20 years now. It has not stopped all guns, but has made a difference. Yes there are still murders, yes there are still crazies like the hostage taking in Sydney, I'm not sure of the stats on gun deaths per 1m people but I'd be willing to bet it's lower here than in the USA.

 

And don't think I'm against guns, I'd love to have one and enjoy shooting it, but accept that it's probably not best for our society overall to allow them, so accept that small sacrifice.

 

Google Chicago violence and then let me know if you still think harsher penalties for possessing guns will stop the violence. Since you aren't in the US, you might not realize Chicago has some of the strictest gun laws in the US, yet they have never ending gun violence. Here is a story from over the weekend in Chicago, this isn't an outlier, this is every weekend there.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/US/killed-36-injured...ory?id=39823178

 

So again, if these criminals aren't afraid of penalties associated with murder, penalties for possession isn't going to mean a thing. Not to mention, felons aren't allowed to have a firearm, they can't even be with someone that has one, that doesn't seem to be stopping anything in Chicago.

 

 

 

 

Um... Everybody going off on guns.... He had a bomb too.... And I'm fairly certain those ARE illegal.

 

Where did you see he had a bomb? The couple articles I read only state he mentioned to police he had a bomb vest during the standoff, but there was no mention of him actually having one, just the Ar15 and a Glock. Is this just the media pushing the anti gun agenda and leaving out a key detail that getting rid of guns means he would have just gone in and blown the place up?

Google Chicago violence and then let me know if you still think harsher penalties for possessing guns will stop the violence. Since you aren't in the US, you might not realize Chicago has some of the strictest gun laws in the US, yet they have never ending gun violence. Here is a story from over the weekend in Chicago, this isn't an outlier, this is every weekend there.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/US/killed-36-injured...ory?id=39823178

 

So again, if these criminals aren't afraid of penalties associated with murder, penalties for possession isn't going to mean a thing. Not to mention, felons aren't allowed to have a firearm, they can't even be with someone that has one, that doesn't seem to be stopping anything in Chicago.

 

I'm not trying to convince anyone you're entitled to your opinion. And I'll stick with mine

 

As I said it's multi layered and needs many changes but you have to eat an elephant 1 bite at a time.

 

For example, Issues of poverty surely don't help the crime problem

I am getting the impression there is a miscommunication here.

 

I am saying the situation is a lot more complicated, but it is sold to the general public as a simple formula.

 

I agree, it appears that we are saying the same thing, I thought you might have a different point of view on a possible solution, you'd expect everyone to react in a similar manner, guy uses gun to mass shoot people take the guns away, guy gets killed in a high speed crash crucify everyone who drives fast, we are a society of ultimate solutions catering to the lowest common denominator, political correct, babysitting every single mouth-breather and it's getting worse by the day.

 

 

 

 

Just read an ISIS member killed a Paris Police Chief and his wife with a knife. What the fcuk.

Google Chicago violence and then let me know if you still think harsher penalties for possessing guns will stop the violence. Since you aren't in the US, you might not realize Chicago has some of the strictest gun laws in the US, yet they have never ending gun violence. Here is a story from over the weekend in Chicago, this isn't an outlier, this is every weekend there.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/US/killed-36-injured...ory?id=39823178

 

So again, if these criminals aren't afraid of penalties associated with murder, penalties for possession isn't going to mean a thing. Not to mention, felons aren't allowed to have a firearm, they can't even be with someone that has one, that doesn't seem to be stopping anything in Chicago.

 

:iamwithstupid:

 

Pass all the laws and penalties you want, that's not stopping the core issue. I get that it seems like a logical solution to the issue, but as Chicago as a case study proves, it simply doesn't work. The media fear-machine would have you believe that these type of events occur every day, when in fact most people who own guns are responsible and safe with them.

 

The main issue is if someone is determined to kill, they are going to. Be a gun, bow and arrow, a bomb, poison gas or even a car, they are going to find a way. What blows my mind is how politicized this topic is, because if this guy had used any other means there would be no "ban all of (insert murder weapon)" yet guns are the magical word that throws everyone into a frenzy. Don't penalize the vast responsible majority because this nut job did a horrible thing.

 

I agree, it appears that we are saying the same thing, I thought you might have a different point of view on a possible solution, you'd expect everyone to react in a similar manner, guy uses gun to mass shoot people take the guns away, guy gets killed in a high speed crash crucify everyone who drives fast, we are a society of ultimate solutions catering to the lowest common denominator, political correct, babysitting every single mouth-breather and it's getting worse by the day.

 

 

We've moved to a place of no individual accountability and we want big brother government to play parent. We don't see and "individual that made a bad personal choice" we see "all people of this topic (guns, fast drivers, ect.") are like this.

While gun control wouldn't be the end all be all of conclusions for this issue, don't you think that maybe for this particular case it would have helped? I agree with most of what has been said, but there still is no reason this guy should have been allowed to buy a gun.

 

Yes there is, he hadn't been convicted of a crime.

Not in this case as a whole because guns are so prolific already. But if guns were outlawed with harsh penalties for having illegal weapons were rolled out, how many street thugs would be willing to have an illegal firearm if it were say 12 months in jail unquestioned for a first offence, 2 years for a second etc.

 

The problem there is then a whole lot of law-abiding citizens would also get locked up as the definition of "illegal firearm" varies throughout the country.

 

I'm not saying it's a perfect solution, and I know the bleeding hearts would argue that prison doesn't fix a problem, but surely on balance this would be a solution to a problem that has a yet not been fixed in the USA and seems to be getting worse.

 

In America we focus more on protecting individual rights. We could on balance have more security possibly if we tossed the whole Bill of Rights out the window and allowed police to hold people indefinitely for any reason, forcibly question people, wiretap without a warrant, search their property without a warrant, etc...

 

Here in Australia the last mass shooting spurred gun reforms against public outcry, but we have not had a mass shooting in around 20 years now. It has not stopped all guns, but has made a difference. Yes there are still murders, yes there are still crazies like the hostage taking in Sydney, I'm not sure of the stats on gun deaths per 1m people but I'd be willing to bet it's lower here than in the USA.

 

There was a public outcry, but overall, the Australian public was onboard with the idea. Also remember Australia is an island nation with a population of 23 million. America's number of gun deaths you have to be careful of, because it is about two-thirds suicides, one-third homicides. And some countries, such as Japan, where there are virtually no guns, have a higher suicide rate than the U.S. So we know that suicide rates are not tied to gun levels. America has among the highest amount of suicides by gun, but not the highest suicide rate.

 

So of the 32,000 gun deaths each year in America, only about 10,000 to 11,000 are homicides. Now of these, a lot are due to the inner-city gang violence we have, which also has nothing to do with guns but which is rather a complex problem having to due with a lack of family unit, drugs, etc...the recent increase in mass shootings has been due most likely to a breakdown in the mental health system (itself due to making it very hard for someone to be committed for civil rights reasons) and terrorism.

 

And don't think I'm against guns, I'd love to have one and enjoy shooting it, but accept that it's probably not best for our society overall to allow them, so accept that small sacrifice.

 

But see that's the difference, to you guns are just a fun privilege, to many in America (myself included), they are a fundamental natural right and a fundamental part of the relationship between citizens and government. The concept of the private possession of arms is one of the oldest in Western civilization.

 

The problem there is then a whole lot of law-abiding citizens would also get locked up as the definition of "illegal firearm" varies throughout the country.

 

 

 

In America we focus more on protecting individual rights. We could on balance have more security possibly if we tossed the whole Bill of Rights out the window and allowed police to hold people indefinitely for any reason, forcibly question people, wiretap without a warrant, search their property without a warrant, etc...

 

 

 

There was a public outcry, but overall, the Australian public was onboard with the idea. Also remember Australia is an island nation with a population of 23 million. America's number of gun deaths you have to be careful of, because it is about two-thirds suicides, one-third homicides. And some countries, such as Japan, where there are virtually no guns, have a higher suicide rate than the U.S. So we know that suicide rates are not tied to gun levels. America has among the highest amount of suicides by gun, but not the highest suicide rate.

 

So of the 32,000 gun deaths each year in America, only about 10,000 to 11,000 are homicides. Now of these, a lot are due to the inner-city gang violence we have, which also has nothing to do with guns but which is rather a complex problem having to due with a lack of family unit, drugs, etc...the recent increase in mass shootings has been due most likely to a breakdown in the mental health system (itself due to making it very hard for someone to be committed for civil rights reasons) and terrorism.

 

 

 

But see that's the difference, to you guns are just a fun privilege, to many in America (myself included), they are a fundamental natural right and a fundamental part of the relationship between citizens and government. The concept of the private possession of arms is one of the oldest in Western civilization.

 

I thought I'd never type this but Wheel just had a dynamite post.