So I know we're not supposed to talk politics - Presidential Election - Poll

Exactly Roman. I can't believe people are bitching about 7million in tax incentives for keeping 800 jobs. 7 Million is a drop in a bucket. Local diners can stay open. Misc vendors for steel, cutting tools, oils, costruction, etc etc get to survive. Plus this was a national news event, I am sure other companies are taking note and if they were on the fence and undecided about moving to Mexico this changed their minds.

Exactly Roman. I can't believe people are bitching about 7million in tax incentives for keeping 800 jobs. 7 Million is a drop in a bucket. Local diners can stay open. Misc vendors for steel, cutting tools, oils, costruction, etc etc get to survive. Plus this was a national news event, I am sure other companies are taking note and if they were on the fence and undecided about moving to Mexico this changed their minds.

 

 

Oh... Its already happening... We have three major employers here: Humana, UPS and Ford. Fords truck division (6000+ employees) has been floating leaving Louisville for about a year... They announced just after the election thats not happening now.

No. I said it right. The loss of carrier would have resulted in a 6 billion dollar loss to Indiana.

 

 

Except that Carrier was never in jeopardy. They were moving a division. Among other things, they are a defense contractor. To extrapolate from this specific situation that the entire company would have offshored itself is laughable.

 

Exactly Roman. I can't believe people are bitching about 7million in tax incentives for keeping 800 jobs. 7 Million is a drop in a bucket. Local diners can stay open. Misc vendors for steel, cutting tools, oils, costruction, etc etc get to survive. Plus this was a national news event, I am sure other companies are taking note and if they were on the fence and undecided about moving to Mexico this changed their minds.

 

 

You bet it did. All theyve got to do is threaten to do so, and the taxpayers of indiana will throw money at them. Free money!

 

 

 

 

Except that Carrier was never in jeopardy. They were moving a division. Among other things, they are a defense contractor. To extrapolate from this specific situation that the entire company would have offshored itself is laughable.

 

Nobody is extrapolating that.... You're not getting the economic impact of losing THAT DIVISION to the local economy.

 

 

Will somebody with some military logistics experience help me make my point?

 

I want to put 2000 combat troops on the ground in east crapistan for the next six months- How many people will be going to east crapistan in total? (Answer- Its closer to 15,000 than to 2,000).

You bet it did. All theyve got to do is threaten to do so, and the taxpayers of indiana will throw money at them. Free money!

 

Its their money!!!!! What we're saying is "we will let you keep more of it if you dont move".

 

Indiana has already made itself pretty competitive economically.... You'll notice, these jobs werent going to move to New Jersey, or Minnesota or Oregon... The problem with Indiana is, its still in the United States. These jobs were leaving for another country. Because for thirty years now the U.S. Government has done everything it can to make conducting business here MORE EXPENSIVE, while at the same time making it easier and more lucrative to do business in Mexico and Canada.

 

 

We are in a GLOBAL marketplace. Our tax and regulatory policy don't paint a picture of a country that WANT JOBS, particularly manufacturing jobs, HERE. We should have NEVER been taxing Carrier that $7 million (and probably MORE!!!!) in the first fcuking place!!!!!

You bet it did. All theyve got to do is threaten to do so, and the taxpayers of indiana will throw money at them. Free money!

 

Try it and see how that works out.

 

And it wasn't "free money", it's a reinvestment incentive to use their own money.

 

Governor Perry did very much the same thing to lure businesses to TX, and it worked in a HUGE way. He gave them property tax incentives to build, among a shit pile of other incentives. It was a long game to get them there, knowing full well massive companies don't just pick up and leave in a hurry.

 

States (like countries) all compete for businesses, and if a small tax incentive keeps (per Roman) $6B Annual revenue in the local economy, why wouldn't you do that?

 

Even CA is feeling it as companies like Toyota give Brown the finger and relocate out of state, taking a shit pile of high income earners with them. The Indiana tax payers are anything but upset by this, that is if they have even a basic understanding of math and finance.

Even CA is feeling it as companies like Toyota give Brown the finger and relocate out of state, taking a shit pile of high income earners with them. The Indiana tax payers are anything but upset by this, that is if they have even a basic understanding of math and finance.

 

California is a perfect example... California has for the last hundred years had three core industries that support the state financially. The first was farming. The Central Valley. They have damned near killed that off. The second was aerospace and defense based on the fact that the first vice president during the cold war was a Californian who went on to be President, followed shortly thereafter by another Cold War Californian. They've killed it. The last was entertainment, and its dying in California. Its now relying on tech and tourism, to pay the bills, and neither have the profitability needed to float the state or create jobs long term. Which is why you have a net migration OUT of california in the millions.

Nobody is extrapolating that.... You're not getting the economic impact of losing THAT DIVISION to the local economy.

 

 

Will somebody with some military logistics experience help me make my point?

 

I want to put 2000 combat troops on the ground in east crapistan for the next six months- How many people will be going to east crapistan in total? (Answer- Its closer to 15,000 than to 2,000).

 

 

Yes, you are right Roman. 2000 combat Troops arrive to Afghanistan, but what most people don't realize is that with those 2000 Troops comes all the people to support them:

 

1.) Medical (There are a lot of divisions in medical)

2.) Combat Engineers

3.) Construction Battalions

4.) Vehicle Operators

5.) Vehicle Mechanics

6.) Cooks

7.) Supply (Can't fly without supply)

8.) Intelligence Analysts

9.) The mission may require air support, so factor in all of the air specialties.

10.) All of the civilians needed to conduct miscellaneous jobs not done by the military.

11.) All of the other specialties needed to support the mission. There are a lot, but you get the idea.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.wsj.com/amp/...9?client=safari

"The stock market of our dreams"

Which is why you have a net migration OUT of california in the millions.

 

It's so much worse than that. The state population isn't changing (I think it's actually up over the last 5 years), the Domestic Net (aka the EARNERS) are running. And they are being replaced by people who are a net negative on the balance sheet in a HUGE way.

 

The visible rise in the homeless population around SoCal over the past two years would surprise even you. The state is shifting huge budget burdens onto counties that don't have any money, and seams are starting to burst.

 

They desperately need to revamp the tax strategy in this state, and start by give welfare recipients and state employees (particularly pensions) a massive haircut. But that isn't going to happen, they will continue to hand out $$$, that fcuking weasel Gavin Newsom will likely be the next governor, and we're full steam ahead into the nuclear landmines.

 

This place should be the greatest economy on the face of the planet, but going to look like Detroit if we aren't careful.

Nobody is extrapolating that.... You're not getting the economic impact of losing THAT DIVISION to the local economy.

 

 

Will somebody with some military logistics experience help me make my point?

 

I want to put 2000 combat troops on the ground in east crapistan for the next six months- How many people will be going to east crapistan in total? (Answer- Its closer to 15,000 than to 2,000).

 

Don't bother you'd be wasting your time.

 

I can no believe how many people don't get the chain reaction triggered in those situations positive and negative, $7mil in tax incentives to get it back 10 fold or perhaps to avoid paying out double than in unemployment and redundancy benefits.

It's so much worse than that. The state population isn't changing (I think it's actually up over the last 5 years), the Domestic Net (aka the EARNERS) are running. And they are being replaced by people who are a net negative on the balance sheet in a HUGE way.

 

The visible rise in the homeless population around SoCal over the past two years would surprise even you. The state is shifting huge budget burdens onto counties that don't have any money, and seams are starting to burst.

 

They desperately need to revamp the tax strategy in this state, and start by give welfare recipients and state employees (particularly pensions) a massive haircut. But that isn't going to happen, they will continue to hand out $$$, that fcuking weasel Gavin Newsom will likely be the next governor, and we're full steam ahead into the nuclear landmines.

 

This place should be the greatest economy on the face of the planet, but going to look like Detroit if we aren't careful.

 

 

You guys should invest more in the famous people telling you how awesome California is ads they have.

Read this.

 

http://nypost.com/2016/12/07/even-anti-tru...econd-thoughts/

 

“I feel a great swing of emotions that go from disbelief to satisfaction that this is happening in our community. An area like this can go from a stable middle-class area to foreclosures and urban blight in the blink of an eye,” he said.

 

James would never dream of voting Republican: “For all of my life the Democrats have been the party of the working guy, had my back. But if I am being really honest, and this is tough to admit, but I can’t remember the last time they did anything to improve the dignity and value of my job” — a point that didn’t really crystallize for him until it became personal: until his job was saved. By a Republican.

 

James, wearing a United Steelworkers jacket on a brisk afternoon, was in no way saying he’s found political religion in the Republicans. But the 57-year-old, African-American longtime Carrier employee did share the sentiment of many of his co-workers, Democrats who didn’t vote for Trump but felt their party was disconnected from their lives.

 

What is astounding, post-election, is the total lack of contrition Democrats have displayed for ignoring the workingman and -woman bloc that has been the party’s horn of plenty. The only regret they display is that they lost the election, not the voters.

 

What Democrats, academics and pundits keep refusing to see is that the loss was never about Trump’s candidacy; it was all about how Democrats have increasingly lost touch with their voters outside of coastal America — until those voters finally hit their breaking point.

 

“The Democratic Party has become a coastal elitist club and if there is any decision or discussion made to broaden that within the ranks, it is squashed,” said Dane Strother, a legendary Washington, DC-based Democratic strategist.

 

“We have completely lost touch with Middle America,” he admits. “How did we go from the party of the little man to the party of the elite?” Then he answers: “Yes, we rightfully should protect the rights of minorities, African-Americans, Hispanics, the LBGTQ communities and we always should — but we can’t forget the rest of the country along the way.”

 

 

Tuesday, a Politico/Morning Consult poll confirmed what Strother knows in his gut: Trump and Vice President-elect Mike Pence’s deal last week with Carrier is wildly popular with the voters. The poll showed Democrats, Republicans and independents heavily viewed Trump’s negotiations with Carrier as an appropriate use of presidential prerogative.

 

And a majority of Americans say the Carrier deal gives them a more favorable view of Trump. “It was magnificent, brilliant theater, and who gives a damn if he can’t replicate that everywhere?” Strother said.

 

“The fact that my fellow Democrats don’t get that has more to do with denial problems or the fact that they weren’t up there doing it themselves.”

 

 

People who six weeks ago were wondering what in the fcuk they were going to do now that the job theyd had ALL of their adult lives was going away, and how they would scrap by on unemployment (and please... Dont tell a 57 year old man that he needs to go learn new skills so he can get a job in some damned industry he knows nothing about... That fcuking guy will be retired before he learns those skills) are out buying fcuking christmas presents for what is sure to be one of the happiest holidays EVER.... So... Seriously... fcuk anybody who hears this and isn't happy for them.

Yes, you are right Roman. 2000 combat Troops arrive to Afghanistan, but what most people don't realize is that with those 2000 Troops comes all the people to support them:

 

1.) Medical (There are a lot of divisions in medical)

2.) Combat Engineers

3.) Construction Battalions

4.) Vehicle Operators

5.) Vehicle Mechanics

6.) Cooks

7.) Supply (Can't fly without supply)

8.) Intelligence Analysts

9.) The mission may require air support, so factor in all of the air specialties.

10.) All of the civilians needed to conduct miscellaneous jobs not done by the military.

11.) All of the other specialties needed to support the mission. There are a lot, but you get the idea.

 

 

And thats what a small civilian community looks like.... 2000 "boots on the ground" (jobs) need tens of thousands of "support personnel" (other jobs) to provide all the shit they need to live a normal life (and each in turn support more jobs and each other for the same reasons) and the money they earn gets taxed over, and over, and over (sales tax, income tax, property taxes on the homes they all live in etc etc etc) as it changes hands throughout the community.... Why liberals never figure this shit out is beyond me...

As above if POTUS had invested the TARP money in infrastructure development back in 2008 instead of giving it to the banking sector the related ripple effect would have been a major boon to the surrounding areas of every project. That alone would have generated hundreds of millions for the business sector.

And thats what a small civilian community looks like.... 2000 "boots on the ground" (jobs) need tens of thousands of "support personnel" (other jobs) to provide all the shit they need to live a normal life (and each in turn support more jobs and each other for the same reasons) and the money they earn gets taxed over, and over, and over (sales tax, income tax, property taxes on the homes they all live in etc etc etc) as it changes hands throughout the community.... Why liberals never figure this shit out is beyond me...

 

 

Hes renegotiating EVERYTHING!!!

 

 

"Air Force 1 5.0 is $4 billion! too expensive! Cancel the deal! "

 

 

 

Watch them deliver that fucker for a third of that....

 

 

 

 

We might ACTUALLY have elected a guy who gives a shit about how much the government is spending, instead of a "fuckit... Its not my money" guy that every other politician for the last 200 years has been...

 

And NOT because hes some altruistic saint... But because he treats it all as a game... Every election... Every bill... Every deal... HE fcuking WANTS TO WIN!!! Its a point of pride... And then when the game is done he says "good job!" shakes the opponents hand and looks for the next joust...

 

And winning to him is getting the most return for the least money.

 

 

 

"carrier is moving from indiana... It will cost 2000 jobs and 6 billion in lost revenue"

 

"We'll give you 7 million to stay here if you use it to improve your facility (money gets spent here) and we get to keep the jobs here and $5.994 billion in revenue. I win! Who's next?"

 

I like that too about Trump very much.

 

Only thing of caution is that I want these companies to be paid properly, whatever that may be. Reasonable profit and nothing more. Don't want anyone to bleed just for the sake of saving the US Government money.

 

I don't think that will happen, but if Trumps developer rep to the A&E and contractor community is at all true, it's a realistic concern.

People who six weeks ago were wondering what in the fcuk they were going to do now that the job theyd had ALL of their adult lives was going away, and how they would scrap by on unemployment (and please... Dont tell a 57 year old man that he needs to go learn new skills so he can get a job in some damned industry he knows nothing about... That fcuking guy will be retired before he learns those skills) are out buying fcuking christmas presents for what is sure to be one of the happiest holidays EVER.... So... Seriously... fcuk anybody who hears this and isn't happy for them.

 

As above if POTUS had invested the TARP money in infrastructure development back in 2008 instead of giving it to the banking sector the related ripple effect would have been a major boon to the surrounding areas of every project. That alone would have generated hundreds of millions for the business sector.

 

 

Forget tarp. The "stimulus" gave millions of dollars to liberal political groups like ACORN and OFA or liberal Doners like solyndra with ZERO stimulative effect on the economy. (No liberal. Taking tax money and giving it to a person you like so they can then spend it does NOT have a net stimulative effect. )

California is a perfect example... California has for the last hundred years had three core industries that support the state financially. The first was farming. The Central Valley. They have damned near killed that off. The second was aerospace and defense based on the fact that the first vice president during the cold war was a Californian who went on to be President, followed shortly thereafter by another Cold War Californian. They've killed it. The last was entertainment, and its dying in California. Its now relying on tech and tourism, to pay the bills, and neither have the profitability needed to float the state or create jobs long term. Which is why you have a net migration OUT of california in the millions.

 

The tax benefits definitely work. Georgia (especially Atlanta) has gotten a ton of film and tv business from this tax credit: http://www.georgia.org/competitive-advanta...-entertainment/

The tax benefits definitely work. Georgia (especially Atlanta) has gotten a ton of film and tv business from this tax credit: http://www.georgia.org/competitive-advanta...-entertainment/

California has been getting its ass kicked by Ireland. IRELAND!!!! For thorny years. And canada for ten.

California has been getting its ass kicked by Ireland. IRELAND!!!! For thorny years. And canada for ten.

 

CA. The state of free handouts, smh.

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Its their money!!!!! What we're saying is "we will let you keep more of it if you dont move".

 

Indiana has already made itself pretty competitive economically.... You'll notice, these jobs werent going to move to New Jersey, or Minnesota or Oregon... The problem with Indiana is, its still in the United States. These jobs were leaving for another country. Because for thirty years now the U.S. Government has done everything it can to make conducting business here MORE EXPENSIVE, while at the same time making it easier and more lucrative to do business in Mexico and Canada.

 

 

We are in a GLOBAL marketplace. Our tax and regulatory policy don't paint a picture of a country that WANT JOBS, particularly manufacturing jobs, HERE. We should have NEVER been taxing Carrier that $7 million (and probably MORE!!!!) in the first fcuking place!!!!!

 

I don't know if I'd say that for thirty years the U.S. government has done everything it can to make business more expensive. Reagan deregulated a lot and reduced a lot of taxes. And further taxation and deregulation then occurred under Bill Clinton with the Republican Congress. I would say the main restrictions on business have been the keeping of a absurdly high corporate tax rate and the Obama administration's slew of regulations on the economy.