So I know we're not supposed to talk politics - Presidential Election - Poll

What happened to our wheels post filter?! On a more serious note...

Disclaimer, I know less than zero about the American healthcare system but this is my opinion on healthcare in general, further disclaimer, I am running on about 3 hours of sleep in the last 24 LOL.

 

I believe certain vital services have to be supplied and controlled by the government, i know most governments are useless but they are the necessary evil.

 

BTW if you don't agree I'd really like to control the tax department and the military

 

How about basic healthcare supplied/subsidized by the government (tax payers)? Government hospitals, government employed doctors etc. That could take care of basic healthcare basically don't let people die in the street and make sure everyone has access to proper healthcare irrespective of their financial means.

 

Make it means tested, you broke you get a subsidy you got money you pay a bit more, I know I know it isn't fair but we are always paying for broke people anyway so why not be open about it?

 

Private can run in parallel, from a certain income bracket "push" people into private healthcare to take the burden off the government system, manipulate the taxes in order to incentivize and de-incentivize the tax payer, allow every insurance company on this planet to compete for the private business, give tax concessions to the insurance company which provides the cheapest rates. etc. etc. etc.

 

Sadly, we have seen this in action. The VA is the government run hospital system for all of our soldiers and veterans. It's in total shambles. Veterans have died because of how poorly it is run. Money is wasted throughout the system. They keep saying they will fix it. And amazingly, they never do.

Disclaimer, I know less than zero about the American healthcare system but this is my opinion on healthcare in general, further disclaimer, I am running on about 3 hours of sleep in the last 24 LOL.

 

I believe certain vital services have to be supplied and controlled by the government, i know most governments are useless but they are the necessary evil.

 

BTW if you don't agree I'd really like to control the tax department and the military

 

How about basic healthcare supplied/subsidized by the government (tax payers)? Government hospitals, government employed doctors etc. That could take care of basic healthcare basically don't let people die in the street and make sure everyone has access to proper healthcare irrespective of their financial means.

 

Make it means tested, you broke you get a subsidy you got money you pay a bit more, I know I know it isn't fair but we are always paying for broke people anyway so why not be open about it?

 

Private can run in parallel, from a certain income bracket "push" people into private healthcare to take the burden off the government system, manipulate the taxes in order to incentivize and de-incentivize the tax payer, allow every insurance company on this planet to compete for the private business, give tax concessions to the insurance company which provides the cheapest rates. etc. etc. etc.

 

 

First= Wheels= not bad. I have to go shave the beard I grew reading it, but i liked your response. Very much more in detail than I care to go and it does bring some good points. At the end of the day my response will always be that: we're America, we CAN come up with something better. That goes for just about everything we currently have.

 

 

Fortis= this would probably fly to be honest. If one cannot afford care, they get care. If one can afford care, they get care but also help out a bit with the bill. Some will argue that we sort of have this now with Medicare/Medicade but as mentioned, it also needs work. It needs to not be something one applies for. It needs to not have limitations.

 

 

 

 

 

Sadly, we have seen this in action. The VA is the government run hospital system for all of our soldiers and veterans. It's in total shambles. Veterans have died because of how poorly it is run. Money is wasted throughout the system. They keep saying they will fix it. And amazingly, they never do.

 

 

well- who is they and why do they keep getting votes?

 

It's time to take the place back. Drain the swamp was a real need but instead, he filled it...

 

 

well- who is they and why do they keep getting votes?

 

It's time to take the place back. Drain the swamp was a real need but instead, he filled it...

No no oil company and goldman sachs executives have the best interest of the country and its people at heart. Trust me bro lol

No no oil company and goldman sachs executives have the best interest of the country and its people at heart. Trust me bro lol

 

 

Right?

 

 

I mean- we're all being played. There is this preconceived notion that it can't change, we cannot eliminate the waste, we have to do it like this for this reason or that. It's all garbage. We can all do better with this and to each other. If we want any real long term stability then we must find a way to do better. It may actually mean that the "haves" need to take just a tiny bit less from the pot than they currently do. I know that's not a popular statement on a Lamborghini forum, but its a real thing. I am not a "have", more of a "have a small bit" and if I can see the validity of that when I barely have.. why can't those who really have?

 

Flame suit zipped up...

Right?

 

 

I mean- we're all being played. There is this preconceived notion that it can't change, we cannot eliminate the waste, we have to do it like this for this reason or that. It's all garbage. We can all do better with this and to each other. If we want any real long term stability then we must find a way to do better. It may actually mean that the "haves" need to take just a tiny bit less from the pot than they currently do. I know that's not a popular statement on a Lamborghini forum, but its a real thing. I am not a "have", more of a "have a small bit" and if I can see the validity of that when I barely have.. why can't those who really have?

 

Flame suit zipped up...

 

because without a solid foundation the more crap you put on top the deeper you sink.

 

Throwing more money at a problem does not mean you fixed it, the "haves" are smart enough to see that and that's why they aren't happy.

 

Let's go with you theory, you strip the "haves" further which is very easy, you can legislate that, it's not a matter of choice, unless you cheat every single one here pays their required share, so once you've stripped them and the problem isn't fixed what do you do next?

because without a solid foundation the more crap you put on top the deeper you sink.

 

Throwing more money at a problem does not mean you fixed it, the "haves" are smart enough to see that and that's why they aren't happy.

 

Let's go with you theory, you strip the "haves" further which is very easy, you can legislate that, it's not a matter of choice, unless you cheat every single one here pays their required share, so once you've stripped them and the problem isn't fixed what do you do next?

 

 

BINGO !!!!!

 

It's always easy to point at a certain income demographic, target them and say make "them" pay more. However it ignores a very basic flaw in the philosophy.

 

Even if the government were to raise tax the on the top 1% to 99% of their income it would still not solve the problem. In other words taxing the wealthy still won't bring in enough to cover the debt or deficit.

 

More importantly, money and those that have it are mobile. If the upper level tax payers experience too much tax fatigue, they will simply pick up their marbles and play elsewhere (in a lower taxed country)

 

" You can always take an extra egg or two from the golden goose. But if you try to screw it really hard you're going to walk away with shite on your willy and no more eggs "

 

The real solution is to make the middle class pay a little bit more. They are the largest demographic and consume the largest proportion of government services. It is necessary for them to realize that they are part of the problem and must pay a larger share in order to fund the benefits they receive. The problems comes in the fact that they also have the numbers to remove you from office at election time.

 

 

 

because without a solid foundation the more crap you put on top the deeper you sink.

 

Throwing more money at a problem does not mean you fixed it, the "haves" are smart enough to see that and that's why they aren't happy.

 

Let's go with you theory, you strip the "haves" further which is very easy, you can legislate that, it's not a matter of choice, unless you cheat every single one here pays their required share, so once you've stripped them and the problem isn't fixed what do you do next?

 

I agree. Completely. So = we need to find a better way.

BINGO !!!!!

 

It's always easy to point at a certain income demographic, target them and say make "them" pay more. However it ignores a very basic flaw in the philosophy.

 

Even if the government were to raise tax the on the top 1% to 99% of their income it would still not solve the problem. In other words taxing the wealthy still won't bring in enough to cover the debt or deficit.

 

More importantly, money and those that have it are mobile. If the upper level tax payers experience too much tax fatigue, they will simply pick up their marbles and play elsewhere (in a lower taxed country)

 

" You can always take an extra egg or two from the golden goose. But if you try to screw it really hard you're going to walk away with shite on your willy and no more eggs "

 

The real solution is to make the middle class pay a little bit more. They are the largest demographic and consume the largest proportion of government services. It is necessary for them to realize that they are part of the problem and must pay a larger share in order to fund the benefits they receive. The problems comes in the fact that they also have the numbers to remove you from office at election time.

 

 

This is infuriating.. lol.

 

 

The problem with this is that the middle class pretty much live at the cost of living. So by telling me (because I, apparently can reach up at touch the bottom of the upper class with my hand) that I have to pay a little more because the upper class shouldn't.. makes my blood boil.

 

 

I'll add that I am content paying what I pay in taxes. No gripes. But the 25% or so that we pay out is a much bigger chunk of my "cost of living" than it is for someone making $250k+ a year. The unfortunate reality for this is that if I want to pay for my kids to go to college and take the fam on vacations, I really don't have much left over. THis is why you see me buying scraps of old cars to piece together my Diablo. Sure= you'll say work harder, spend less.. and rightfully so. I say no, that's crap. I work to live. I work to support my family. So when someone who makes $250k/yr+ pays a similar percentage in taxes or for healthcare- it doesn't add up because the "left over" for them can actually be saved, invested.. they can actually go on vacations.. have huge homes..

 

 

I know I'm arguing to the wrong crowd here, but the grand point I am trying to make is that an extra $5k/yr out of my upper middle class pocket is proportionally equivalent to an extra $20 out of some other people's pocket. And THAT is the problem. It;s not that I won't pay that extra $5k.. I think that the taxes should be based on cost of real living vs. income.. not just a percentage of net income.

 

Someone will claim that doing it my proposed way kills incentive. I always respond to that = For who? What we have now is killing incentive for the people who are actually doing the work. *edited to add... and those people doing the work are all fighting over the same nickel. It's the proverbial carrot dangling in front of the donkey.. keep pushing.. we will throw you a $0.25 raise.. meanwhile- boss's buddy walks in the door and gets an office and big paycheck.. I left an absolute shithole of a company for this crap (Bureau Veritas- and I hope one of the higher-ups are a member and reading) where they seem to actively seek out the biggest imbecile= and hand him the keys to the car, tell him to drive. Meanwhile, I'm making a real impact as an entry level engineer (the only actual engineer in my division, despite several other titled engineers).... solving real problems. Blahh. enough about that place..

 

 

 

This is infuriating.. lol.

 

 

The problem with this is that the middle class pretty much live at the cost of living. So by telling me (because I, apparently can reach up at touch the bottom of the upper class with my hand) that I have to pay a little more because the upper class shouldn't.. makes my blood boil.

 

 

I'll add that I am content paying what I pay in taxes. No gripes. But the 25% or so that we pay out is a much bigger chunk of my "cost of living" than it is for someone making $250k+ a year. The unfortunate reality for this is that if I want to pay for my kids to go to college and take the fam on vacations, I really don't have much left over. THis is why you see me buying scraps of old cars to piece together my Diablo. Sure= you'll say work harder, spend less.. and rightfully so. I say no, that's crap. I work to live. I work to support my family. So when someone who makes $250k/yr+ pays a similar percentage in taxes or for healthcare- it doesn't add up because the "left over" for them can actually be saved, invested.. they can actually go on vacations.. have huge homes..

 

 

I know I'm arguing to the wrong crowd here, but the grand point I am trying to make is that an extra $5k/yr out of my upper middle class pocket is proportionally equivalent to an extra $20 out of some other people's pocket. And THAT is the problem. It;s not that I won't pay that extra $5k.. I think that the taxes should be based on cost of real living vs. income.. not just a percentage of net income.

 

Someone will claim that doing it my proposed way kills incentive. I always respond to that = For who? What we have now is killing incentive for the people who are actually doing the work. *edited to add... and those people doing the work are all fighting over the same nickel. It's the proverbial carrot dangling in front of the donkey.. keep pushing.. we will throw you a $0.25 raise.. meanwhile- boss's buddy walks in the door and gets an office and big paycheck.. I left an absolute shithole of a company for this crap (Bureau Veritas- and I hope one of the higher-ups are a member and reading) where they seem to actively seek out the biggest imbecile= and hand him the keys to the car, tell him to drive. Meanwhile, I'm making a real impact as an entry level engineer (the only actual engineer in my division, despite several other titled engineers).... solving real problems. Blahh. enough about that place..

 

 

Its proportionately equivalent only in your mind. Typical democrat response, " my money means more to me than yours" uh....no

 

Its proportionately equivalent only in your mind. Typical democrat response, " my money means more to me than yours" uh....no

 

 

+1

Kmb58, What do you say to the people that make 50k per year looking at you and your diablo and your family vacation that says this prick can pay more, we haven't had a vacation in years and we don't even own a car?

+1 What do you say to the people that make 50k per year looking at you and your diablo and your family vacation that says this prick can pay more, we haven't had a vacation in years and we don't even own a car?

 

Is it Allan's fault that he has his lifestyle? Yes it is.

 

By fault it is blood sweat and tears it took him to get where he is. It was decisions and choices he made, businesses he started and ran. There are others who did similar things to him and happened to make more money. People with private jets and yachts and a billion dollars. What do those tell Allan when he complains that he doesn't own a private jet?

Is it Allan's fault that he has his lifestyle? Yes it is.

 

By fault it is blood sweat and tears it took him to get where he is. It was decisions and choices he made, businesses he started and ran. There are others who did similar things to him and happened to make more money. People with private jets and yachts and a billion dollars. What do those tell Allan when he complains that he doesn't own a private jet?

 

I think he was talking to KMB... that lower income people look at his 250k, and say he should be paying more. And lol @ 25% in taxes. I wish I was paying 25%.

 

+1 What do you say to the people that make 50k per year looking at you and your diablo and your family vacation that says this prick can pay more, we haven't had a vacation in years and we don't even own a car?

 

That person should really look at him or her self and their actions/decisions. The mindset of blaming others is what often holds them back.

 

If, of course, a diablo and a vacation is what you want out of life. Cause some people are happy living out of a car LOL

I think he was talking to KMB... that lower income people look at his 250k, and say he should be paying more. And lol @ 25% in taxes. I wish I was paying 25%.

 

True, I just want to get under 50%.

 

I hope Trump puts extra cash in my pocket. I have trickle down economics projects that I want to do so the people I pay to do them can take vacations and afford things.

If you are being really cynical, this actually may benefit Republicans. Obviously, they will take a hit in the short-term, but whatever replaces Obamacare would be an Achilles heel and the option they were going to vote on would have been a disaster that they would have to own. Now they can keep bashing Obamacare while continuing to undermine, push the problem down the road and not have to own plan b.

 

 

As predicted Pence in WV today. Starts his speech attacking Obamacare.

Its proportionately equivalent only in your mind. Typical democrat response, " my money means more to me than yours" uh....no

 

 

And that is a typical response from those who have

 

The best way to break this down is (using numbers out of the sky) this:

 

If person 1 makes $100k/yr, they pay 25% in taxes, they live on $75k. Person 2 makes $1M/yr and also pays out 25%, they live on $750k.

 

Person two can absolutely get by on $750k/yr plus invest, save, pay for kids college, buy the new Hurracan, start a new business etc.. Person 1 can go out to eat once a month. Person 1 can either let their kids borrow money at 5% interest so that they can go to college.. OR they can eat ramen noodles so the kids don't have to.

 

Person 2 can go buy the new car without paying stupid interest rates.. Person 2 can actually earn money on banked money. Person 1 get $0.02/mo interest on their peanuts.

 

 

Did person 2 work harder? Is person 2 smarter? I'd bet= not really. Right place, right time? Sure. Born into it? Sure... but to say this person worked harder than that person is not always true. Yes, true a lot of times but from where I currently sit= I work, I think, I try to make good moves but unless this Marijuana stock I bought a few months ago (which I am down quite a bit on at the moment lmao) really goes bananas= when I'm 65 I'll have a nice house and a salvage titled, pieced together Diablo to show for my life's work. Maybe that is heavily skewed toward the half empty side of thinking.. but as wife-face and I are both sitting here with decent educations and seemingly no clear opportunities for real advancement... ehh.. I'd say its a shit path.

 

I had half a thought today about starting my own company.. but the thing is= in order to do that I'd basically have to shit where I currently eat, take what I have learned and do my own thing with it. I sort of view this as standing on the very person who helped me in my biggest time of need. I have always made the claim that I don't have to walk on anybody to get ahead. perhaps that is naive.

 

 

Anyway- fun chatting.. I'ma go back out and finish making this roof skin for my car.

 

 

 

 

Gotta come to the Liberal facebook lamborghini page "Lamborghini Passion" to see more for now ;-)

I'm kidding about it being only for Liberals.

Did person 2 work harder? Is person 2 smarter? I'd bet= not really. Right place, right time? Sure. Born into it? Sure... but to say this person worked harder than that person is not always true. Yes, true a lot of times but from where I currently sit= I work, I think, I try to make good moves but unless this Marijuana stock I bought a few months ago (which I am down quite a bit on at the moment lmao) really goes bananas= when I'm 65 I'll have a nice house and a salvage titled, pieced together Diablo to show for my life's work. Maybe that is heavily skewed toward the half empty side of thinking.. but as wife-face and I are both sitting here with decent educations and seemingly no clear opportunities for real advancement... ehh.. I'd say its a shit path.

 

 

 

 

I had half a thought today about starting my own company.. but the thing is= in order to do that I'd basically have to shit where I currently eat, take what I have learned and do my own thing with it. I sort of view this as standing on the very person who helped me in my biggest time of need. I have always made the claim that I don't have to walk on anybody to get ahead. perhaps that is naive.

 

Here you prove your own fallacy. You are educated but not willing to get out of your comfort zone and go for the stars. The very wealthy engineers I know did work harder and smarter. They used their smarts to invest in RE and other things. These grew over time and made them wealthy. Some started businesses. They got wealthy off these businesses.

 

Some people invest their extra into these businesses and get crazy returns. Suddenly they owe debts to those who didn't try? Who didn't take risks?

 

Typical left mindset. "The only way anyone else gets gets that far ahead and that wealthy is by stepping on other people, and the reason I'm comfortable in my mediocrity is because I haven't stepped on others. Not because I haven't tried other paths. Everyone works hard, but the guy who gets really far ahead was just lucky and he has everyone else to thank for him getting there."

"I took a BIG leap and MUH marijuana stock didn't make me a billionaire. But that's okay because nobody got hurt"

Truly pathetic

Is it Allan's fault that he has his lifestyle? Yes it is.

 

By fault it is blood sweat and tears it took him to get where he is. It was decisions and choices he made, businesses he started and ran. There are others who did similar things to him and happened to make more money. People with private jets and yachts and a billion dollars. What do those tell Allan when he complains that he doesn't own a private jet?

Exactly right.

Typical left mindset. "The only way anyone else gets gets that far ahead and that wealthy is by stepping on other people, and the reason I'm comfortable in my mediocrity is because I haven't stepped on others. Not because I haven't tried other paths. Everyone works hard, but the guy who gets really far ahead was just lucky and he has everyone else to thank for him getting there."

"I took a BIG leap and MUH marijuana stock didn't make me a billionaire. But that's okay because nobody got hurt"

Truly pathetic

 

 

Not just pathetic, but Truly pathetic?

 

Typical?

 

Now I am about five messages deep that I have deleted in response to this. Now I'm tapping out.

 

Cheers guys-

 

 

Typical left mindset. "The only way anyone else gets gets that far ahead and that wealthy is by stepping on other people, and the reason I'm comfortable in my mediocrity is because I haven't stepped on others. Not because I haven't tried other paths. Everyone works hard, but the guy who gets really far ahead was just lucky and he has everyone else to thank for him getting there."

"I took a BIG leap and MUH marijuana stock didn't make me a billionaire. But that's okay because nobody got hurt"

Truly pathetic

 

He lost me several posts back when he mentioned the "haves" might need to "take" a bit less out of the pot. Where is this pot the "haves" get to take out of? I'd like to know because I can always use a little extra money. I have found that the more I make the more I have to pay, both as a percentage and overall. Maybe this pot is held up by the "have nots" and you have to step on them to climb up to take out of it. Good grief.

Here you prove your own fallacy. You are educated but not willing to get out of your comfort zone and go for the stars. The very wealthy engineers I know did work harder and smarter. They used their smarts to invest in RE and other things. These grew over time and made them wealthy. Some started businesses. They got wealthy off these businesses.

 

Some people invest their extra into these businesses and get crazy returns. Suddenly they owe debts to those who didn't try? Who didn't take risks?

 

No- I don't think this is completely true. I have not shown the whole hand,.. I stepped way out of my comfort zone in 2015, nearly lost our home when the company I left a job for was a sham and I was unemployed for four months. I always wanted a summer off.. but man that really sucks when you don't have two nickels to rub together. It was great taking the kids to the amusement park every week.. luckily we had the passes before the drama.

 

There is no debt owed to me, I am not looking for any handouts from anyone. it's just calling for a bit of social responsibility. Its like saying that to some people, the $50 in my pocket is more like $500k to others... If I could hand $50 to someone and change their life forever, I sure would. But again, I am well aware of the audience and that my views might not be in line with yours.

 

The very good news for me is that: at the end of the day- I never called anyone pathetic for voicing their point of view.

 

 

He lost me several posts back when he mentioned the "haves" might need to "take" a bit less out of the pot. Where is this pot the "haves" get to take out of? I'd like to know because I can always use a little extra money. I have found that the more I make the more I have to pay, both as a percentage and overall. Maybe this pot is held up by the "have nots" and you have to step on them to climb up to take out of it. Good grief.

 

 

It would make a lot more sense to you if you were standing in our shoes. I'll explain= when someone works for a LARGE company and has a direct influence over global profits and growth, yet every year MIGHT grow by 3% via raise, MIGHT get a 2% bonus= I say its crap. SO= I left. It's not enough. I cannot sit and be the only one doing the quality work they expect of everyone, and take a similar paycheck home as the guy/girl who cannot write a complete sentence in an email response to a client.

 

Now I'm in a much better position elsewhere... but growth seems to be somewhat stagnant. At least, not in line with my schedule. :-)